Chrambo Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6108918.ece The ability of Vladimir Romanov, the owner of Heart of Midlothian, finance the football club was questioned yesterday after a ratings agency downgraded the creditworthiness of the Lithuanian bank in which he is the biggest shareholder. Moody?s reduced Ukio Bankas?s credit ratings to near junk status, following a similar move by Standard and Poor?s last month. The agency was also concerned that the bank?s core capital ? the money it needs in order to meet any losses on its loans ? was ?stretched?. The rating reflects the agency?s fear that Ukio Bankas will suffer severe losses as the global financial crisis deepens, but a spokesman for the bank, based in Vilnius, said yesterday that its work with Hearts, which it sponsors, would be unaffected. Rumours about the financial security of Hearts have circulated for some time. Last year the players? wages were twice paid late and there were claims that the Lithuanian-born Mr Romanov might have to sell the club he acquired in 2005. Alex Salmond, the First Minister and a long-time Hearts supporter, added to the concerns when he told The Times last month that the club was ?in unsafe hands?. ?I still believe there is a general problem in football which involves a kind of devil?s bargain. If you get a club sold to a very rich foreign guy ? often a Russian oligarch or somebody like that ? then I suppose you enter a kind of devil?s bargain, whereby you hope that the guy is rich enough to buy you success,? he said. ?I?m not saying that Romanov is some sort of dreadful person. All I?m saying is that, if we were going to be taken over by a rich guy from the Baltic states, then it?s just a pity he wasn?t a bit richer.? The rating suggests that Mr Romanov, who has a 32.95 per cent stake in Ukio Bankas, may be about to become poorer. Although the bank made a ? 14 million (?12.4 million) profit in 2008, it made a loss in the last three months of last year. The bank now lies close to the bottom of the credit ratings league. By comparison, British banks, despite their problems, are all in the top half of the league. The lower a banks? rating, the more expensive the borrowings that an organisation has to make in order to finance its operations. Moody?s said that it had reduced the bank?s rating because of ?the reported significant decline in Ukio Bankas?s profitability and asset quality and Moody?s expectation of a significant further weakening in asset quality due to the rapidly deteriorating credit conditions in Lithuania?. The problem for the bank, Lithuania?s fifth biggest, is that the Baltic states are suffering the worst recession in Europe, mainly because property prices are crashing. The Lithuanian Government predicts a 10.5 per cent decline in output in 2009. Limas Kontrimas, an adviser to the Ukio Bankas board, said that the bank had no special problem. All the banks in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were having their ratings downgraded because of the problems of the regional economy, he added. Asked about the bank?s support for Hearts, he said that the board had recently reviewed all its activities: ?One of those projects is the football club of Hearts and there was no discussion about that.? The shares in Hearts are owned by Ukio Bankas Investicine Grupe, which is chaired by Mr Romanov and is separate from the bank. Remigijus Jurgelaitis, a spokesman, said that he believed the downgrade in the bank?s ratings was not a problem for Hearts. Lord Foulkes of Cumnock, who is a former chairman of Hearts and sits as a Labour MSP, said: ?It is difficult to know if this decision will have any effect on the club and if it does, what kind of effect it will be. But it is clearly not good news.? The media gets worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midloth_Iain Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 tick tock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwull22 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Aye all banks are rock solid right enough, British Banks would never take such risk with customers money, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Every single financial institution on the planet has either been downgraded recently, or most certainly will be when their turn comes up for review. As news stories go this is a definite no news story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 double flaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skivingatwork Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 RBS has been down-graded twice in the last 12 months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Big pile of ****** I like the fact that the spokesman for UBIG was not directly quoted but instead it is said he "believed the downgrade in the bank’s ratings was not a problem for Hearts." whereas the actual quote probably said it wouldn't affect us And good old rent-a-quote Georgie boy has to get involved too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydtheBartender Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Asked about the bank’s support for Hearts, he said that the board had recently reviewed all its activities: “One of those projects is the football club of Hearts and there was no discussion about that.” The shares in Hearts are owned by Ukio Bankas Investicine Grupe, which is chaired by Mr Romanov and is separate from the bank. Remigijus Jurgelaitis, a spokesman, said that he believed the downgrade in the bank’s ratings was not a problem for Hearts. Fears for Hearts after Vladimir Romanov's bank is downgraded - Title. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwull22 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 :smell_hobo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjambo Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Standard & Poor and Moodys have really covered themselves in glory recently with their triple A ratings for all of the Lehman Bros securities that nearly brought us to financial meltdown. I'm surprised that anyone even pays any attention to their 'ratings' any more. Just as much value in asking a guy in the pub what his opinion is - the Moody's guy might sound more convincing and get paid more - but he still won't have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 SHOCK Lithuanian Bank in 'ITS NO THE BEST BANK' shocker!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote=Chrambo;935480 The agency was also concerned that the bank?s core capital ? the money it needs in order to meet any losses on its loans ? was ?stretched?. Only "stretched" eh? Sounds (relatively speaking) pretty good compared to, say, HBOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del1812 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 What a ****e article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 RBS has been down-graded twice in the last 12 months... And bailed out by the tax payer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali-1874 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 What a ****e article. Sums it up for me. Non-story probably written by a Hobo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 UKIO Bankas posts biggest profit in its history- a profit mind and people panic RBS posts biggest loss in corporate history and we are worried about being with UKIO? I'd rather be with them than with any "good honest sound scots bank" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 ?I?m not saying that Romanov is some sort of dreadful person. All I?m saying is that, if we were going to be taken over by a rich guy from the Baltic states, then it?s just a pity he wasn?t a bit richer.? He's condensed 4 years of Kickback waffle into 42 words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 We are HEARTS. We have taken in over ?11 million in transfer frees over the last year. Season ticket sales for next season are up. There is a new wage cap for the season ahead (no ?10,000 malarky)... RBS are up the *** hole. Ukio posted profits last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Shows that we are back to winning matches again anyway. Bet there's nothing in tomorrow's papers about David Murray's financial stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 This sort of guff comes around with depressing regularity. Is it something to do with lunar cycle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 In all honesty Ukio is a small Eastern European bank. Eastern Europe is goosed, hence the number of IMF bailouts to the likes of Ukraine, Latvia and Poland. Lithuania isn't in that bad shape compared to its neighbours but Eastern Europe countries are being hit hardest by the depression. Personally, I'm more concerned about UBIG rather than Ukio and I still believe this is why the accounts haven't been published yet as the auditors will need the relevant assurances from UBIG to sign them off as a going concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Apparently the entire area around Lochend has just spontaneously burst into flames. All caused by the simultaneous thrashing of 1,000s of foreskins amongst the local primates on hearing this news. Sirgay will need the end of his sewn back on after reading that story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 In all honesty Ukio is a small Eastern European bank. Eastern Europe is goosed, hence the number of IMF bailouts to the likes of Ukraine, Latvia and Poland. Lithuania isn't in that bad shape compared to its neighbours but Eastern Europe countries are being hit hardest by the depression. Personally, I'm more concerned about UBIG rather than Ukio and I still believe this is why the accounts haven't been published yet as the auditors will need the relevant assurances from UBIG to sign them off as a going concern. http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=48755 Well at least a couple of contributors have seen the accounts then Geoff.... Have you anything to base the UBIG theory on or is entirely your own opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samster Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I imagine Sirgay will be tugging himself half to death over this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Slow news day. And as for the collective soiling of underwear down Lochend way, don't worry, that'll stop around 2pm tomorrow afternoon when a Murderwell win will facilitate the annual downgrading in the status of the Lochend Brazil from top 6 to bottom 6 and the tramps will commence their summer of in-fighting. Done the hibs way. Of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=48755 Well at least a couple of contributors have seen the accounts then Geoff.... Have you anything to base the UBIG theory on or is entirely your own opinion? No, as I said on another thread, it's entirely my opinion, the point being that if the figures are "ready" then the key is the auditing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So......................are the accounts out yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Aye, the Times has it in for us big style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Boy Named Crow Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7989407.stm http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/apr/15/building-societies-downgraded It's not like Ukio are the only ones in thisw position is it? Still earily quiet on the demise of the Murray empire I note! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Stinkfinger Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Is there any updates on this grounbreaking shocker of a story because i have not had a minutes sleep with being up all night worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I think the problem with being downgraded is that liquidity may soon become a problem as the downgraded entity will struggle to get finance through the door to meet its various financial obligations or if it needs to roll-over loans etc. It was the downgrade of AIG that basically pushed it over the edge That said I agree with Geoff Kilpatrick. Not overly concerned about Ukio Bankus per se but the parent company is key. I do hope there is sufficient seperation between all the UBIG family companies so that if one goes it isnt a domino effect. It is clear though of the pressing need for us to be as self sufficient as possible. We're not going to have any financial flexibility whatsoever in the current times and we need to keep an eye on our overdraft. There are plenty companies who have been goosed recently by the banks calling in the overdraft or halfing the limit and putting up charges etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Boy Named Crow Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I think the problem with being downgraded is that liquidity may soon become a problem as the downgraded entity will struggle to get finance through the door to meet its various financial obligations or if it needs to roll-over loans etc. It was the downgrade of AIG that basically pushed it over the edge That said I agree with Geoff Kilpatrick. Not overly concerned about Ukio Bankus per se but the parent company is key. I do hope there is sufficient seperation between all the UBIG family companies so that if one goes it isnt a domino effect. It is clear though of the pressing need for us to be as self sufficient as possible. We're not going to have any financial flexibility whatsoever in the current times and we need to keep an eye on our overdraft. There are plenty companies who have been goosed recently by the banks calling in the overdraft or halfing the limit and putting up charges etc. Murray International Holdings for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Murray International Holdings for example? Surely not as we would have read that in all the Glasgow based papers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I think the problem with being downgraded is that liquidity may soon become a problem as the downgraded entity will struggle to get finance through the door to meet its various financial obligations or if it needs to roll-over loans etc. It was the downgrade of AIG that basically pushed it over the edge That said I agree with Geoff Kilpatrick. Not overly concerned about Ukio Bankus per se but the parent company is key. I do hope there is sufficient seperation between all the UBIG family companies so that if one goes it isnt a domino effect. It is clear though of the pressing need for us to be as self sufficient as possible. We're not going to have any financial flexibility whatsoever in the current times and we need to keep an eye on our overdraft. There are plenty companies who have been goosed recently by the banks calling in the overdraft or halfing the limit and putting up charges etc. While I agree with what you say, the important question is where do they get their money from ? If they rely on retail depositors and they are still saving (which tends to happen in a recession) then Ukio should be OK provided they have sufficient capital to cover short term shocks. If they rely on interbank lending then they could be goosed like all banks with that business model. I don't know the answer but I assume someone on this board knows something ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 While I agree with what you say, the important question is where do they get their money from ? If they rely on retail depositors and they are still saving (which tends to happen in a recession) then Ukio should be OK provided they have sufficient capital to cover short term shocks. If they rely on interbank lending then they could be goosed like all banks with that business model. I don't know the answer but I assume someone on this board knows something ? Last figures I saw suggested that Ukio had enough retail deposits and had greatly reduced exposure to wholesale borrowing. The real worry is going to be about bad debt creation going forward. The IMF were given all the extra resources at the G20 for Eastern European bailouts for a reason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Murray International Holdings for example? Possibly - dont know. Its not a Hearts specific problem (if it is even a problem for us, who knows). But, it simply cant just be presumed that all is rosey - because that isnt the way the world is working at the moment, whether or not I have a general disregard for Romanov.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 While I agree with what you say, the important question is where do they get their money from ? If they rely on retail depositors and they are still saving (which tends to happen in a recession) then Ukio should be OK provided they have sufficient capital to cover short term shocks. If they rely on interbank lending then they could be goosed like all banks with that business model. I don't know the answer but I assume someone on this board knows something ? Absolutely and AIG were a completely different kettle of fish. They really were caught with no trunks on when the tide went out. Annoyingly the Moody and/or Standard & Poor ratings themselves were exposed as being basically incompetent, not worth the paper they were written on - maybe even corrupt because they were triple "A"ing just about anything for a time without proper review and/or on the payment of chunky fees. The problem is, however, that their ratings are still the measure of financial wellbeing and downgrading isnt a good thing. Its all a shambles Anyway, I am not hugely concerned about the Bank - its the group over all, particularly UBIG we need to be secure, and there hasnt been any bad news elsewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaing Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I read last week that Man Utd are ?1.1bn in debt, almost choked on my rice krispies and they have to repay this within 9 years. Wonder what bank they are with, Ukio Bankas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I think the problem with being downgraded is that liquidity may soon become a problem as the downgraded entity will struggle to get finance through the door to meet its various financial obligations or if it needs to roll-over loans etc. It was the downgrade of AIG that basically pushed it over the edge That said I agree with Geoff Kilpatrick. Not overly concerned about Ukio Bankus per se but the parent company is key. I do hope there is sufficient seperation between all the UBIG family companies so that if one goes it isnt a domino effect. It is clear though of the pressing need for us to be as self sufficient as possible. We're not going to have any financial flexibility whatsoever in the current times and we need to keep an eye on our overdraft. There are plenty companies who have been goosed recently by the banks calling in the overdraft or halfing the limit and putting up charges etc. That's the thing. We are inextricably linked to this bank so some of the above comments merit a 'head in sand' smilie. The Times is not noted for its anti-Hearts agenda so I don't think this is a non-story for us at all. I am somewhat surprised that Foulkes is unable to comment - he should be more aware of where we stand in the Group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 That's the thing. We are inextricably linked to this bank so some of the above comments merit a 'head in sand' smilie. The Times is not noted for its anti-Hearts agenda so I don't think this is a non-story for us at all. I am somewhat surprised that Foulkes is unable to comment - he should be more aware of where we stand in the Group. Are we? From what I understand we have a small chunk of our debt held with Ukio Bankas, which may well have paid off as part of the money that has come into the club in the past two years. Our short term banking facilities (wages etc) are with Halifax Bank of Scotland. Hearts main exposure to Ukio at the current time is that they are our shirt sponsors. As has already been alluded to, the key relationship for Hearts is the one with Ukio's parent company, UBIG. It is they who have subsidised our expenditure since 2005, ideally the business (HMFC) is moving toward no longer needing this subsidy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3inaBednar Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Who cares about these ratings agencies. Are these the same agencies that gave RBS and HBOS AAA+ ratings and look what happened to them...... Non story on an obvious slow news day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Who cares about these ratings agencies. Are these the same agencies that gave RBS and HBOS AAA+ ratings and look what happened to them...... Non story on an obvious slow news day The week before the whole country went bust, Iceland's Landsbanki was given a triple AAA rating. Ukio Bankas downgrade is reflective more of the economic conditions in Eastern Europe, rather than the individual company performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 The week before the whole country went bust, Iceland's Landsbanki was given a triple AAA rating. Ukio Bankas downgrade is reflective more of the economic conditions in Eastern Europe, rather than the individual company performance. I think the case is Martin that most, if not all, financial institutions, were greatly over-rated in the past. These new ratings, while still probably too high in some, if not many, cases, are probably going in the right direction, and have, as you say, come about as a result of economic conditions in general, and a changing attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I think the case is Martin that most, if not all, financial institutions, were greatly over-rated in the past. These new ratings, while still probably too high in some, if not many, cases, are probably going in the right direction, and have, as you say, come about as a result of economic conditions in general, and a changing attitude. Agreed,Ukio has little access to sub prime Most Lith bank are leveraged ....but so what the swiss can afford it Ireland is not Iceland and Lithuania is not Latvia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Hearts are owned by UBIG anyway, not Ukio Bankas. Anybody who believes Vlad's main income is from Ukio Bankas need to wake up and smell a caffine based hot drink. Metals is Vlad big earner, not only that but selling his items to an offshore company that he owns to bypass funding the government pension scheme. To be honest, I would much rather invest ?10k in Ukio than i would in RBS or HBOS at the moment in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deodato Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Apparently the entire area around Lochend has just spontaneously burst into flames. All caused by the simultaneous thrashing of 1,000s of foreskins amongst the local primates on hearing this news. Sirgay will need the end of his sewn back on after reading that story. Classic post - one of the funniest in JKB history. And your representing Hicks in your AVATOR. RESPECT IS DUE! Deodato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 To be honest, I would much rather invest ?10k in Ukio than i would in RBS or HBOS at the moment in time. Dunno about that - if you'd put a grand into RBS 6 weeks ago you'd have over ?3k today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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