Stats

[topcat]

Warning If you don't like statistics threads then ignore this one.

 

Season so far broken down by result and margin of victory/defeat

 

Team                |L3+  L2 L1 | D | W1  W2 W3+ |
Celtic              |     3     | 7 | 7   7   5  |
Rangers             |         4 | 7 | 6   7   5  |
Heart of Midlothian | 1   3   5 | 7 |13   1      |
Dundee United       | 1   4   3 |11 | 6   4   1  |
Aberdeen            |     3   7 | 8 | 8   3   1  |
Hibernian           | 1   5   4 |10 | 6   3   1  |
Motherwell          | 1   5   6 | 7 | 9   1   1  |
Hamilton Academical | 3   3  11 | 3 | 6   4      |
Saint Mirren        | 1   5   7 | 9 | 6   1      |
Kilmarnock          | 2   4  10 | 6 | 4   4      |
Inverness CT        | 4   2  12 | 4 | 5   3      |
Falkirk             | 2   1  11 | 9 | 4       2  |

 

We have only had 5 league games in 30 where the margin has been more than one goal. This may not be the easiest Hearts side to watch but it does keep you on the edge of your seat right up till the final whistle.

 

 

Totals for first round of fixtures, Second round of Fixtures, Third Round so far (Equivelant Total for 11 3rd round games)

 

Celtic              28 + 23 +13(20.4)
Rangers             26 + 23 +12(18.9)
Heart of Midlothian 14 + 21 +14(19.3)
Aberdeen            14 + 22 + 8(11.0)
Dundee United       16 + 19 + 9(12.4)
Hibernian           15 + 15 +10(13.8)
Motherwell          16 + 11 +13(17.9)
Hamilton Academical  9 + 14 +10(13.8)
Kilmarnock          16 + 10 + 4( 5.5)
Saint Mirren        12 + 13 + 5( 7.9)
Inverness CT        10 +  7 +11(15.1)
Falkirk             11 +  7 + 9(14.1)

 

Hearts were looking mediocre in 8th after 11 games but have picked up for rounds two and three

 

The Old Firm were dominant in the opening stages but are now dropping points at an average of one per game, roughly the rate Hearts have been running at.

 

Hamilton struggled as they commenced their campaign in the top flight but got up to speed by round two

 

Falkirk and Inverness seem to have bottomed out and bounced back a bit while things just keep getting worse at Kilmarnock

 

Even if Aberdeen win their next three matches they'll still be well short of their total for round two Dundee United look to have had their purple patch as well although their form hasn't been quite so varied.

 

Mixu's Hibs may be criticised for many things but inconsistency surely can't be one of them, They've been maintaining approximately the same level of medicrity throughout the season.

 

Average Goals (For and Against) per Home Game

Goals TeamName

3.4 Celtic

3.3 Rangers

2.7 Dundee United

2.7 Motherwell

2.5 Inverness CT

2.4 Heart of Midlothian

2.4 Hibernian

2.2 Falkirk

2.1 Kilmarnock

2.1 Aberdeen

2.0 Hamilton Academical

1.6 Saint Mirren

 

While there may be more thrills (& spills) at other grounds it would appear that at Tynecastle Hearts are neither particularly defensive or attacking particulary in comparison with our away form....

 

And Finally Average Goals (For and Against) per away Game

Goals TeamName

3.0 Celtic

2.8 Falkirk

2.7 Inverness CT

2.7 Saint Mirren

2.5 Dundee United

2.4 Hamilton Academical

2.4 Kilmarnock

2.3 Rangers

2.2 Aberdeen

2.1 Hibernian

2.1 Motherwell

1.9 Heart of Midlothian

[Ryan Gosling]

How many games left of this round TC? And I take it we're top of the table for round 3?

[Coco]

Wonder which player returned to the team in game 12?

 

[topcat]

How many games left of this round TC? And I take it we're top of the table for round 3?

 

We're top of the Round 3 Table with 3 games to play but Rangers(2 behind) and Celtic(1 behind) each have an 4 games to play.

 

I made the projections of the totals by simply taking the average for round 3 and multiplying by 11.

 

In some cases (Notably Falkirk who still have to play all of the top 3) this will produce an overly optimistic/pessimistic estimate.

 

Remaining Fixtures.

Celtic: 4/Apr Hamilton Academical(H);8/Apr Falkirk(H);11/Apr Heart of Midlothian(A);18/Apr Aberdeen(H)

Rangers: 5/Apr Falkirk(A);8/Apr Saint Mirren(A);11/Apr Motherwell(H);18/Apr Hibernian(A)

Heart of Midlothian: 4/Apr Kilmarnock(H);11/Apr Celtic(H);18/Apr Falkirk(A)

Aberdeen: 4/Apr Motherwell(A);11/Apr Inverness CT(H);18/Apr Celtic(A)

Dundee United: 4/Apr Hibernian(H);11/Apr Hamilton Academical(A);18/Apr Kilmarnock(H)

Hibernian: 4/Apr Dundee United(A);13/Apr Saint Mirren(A);18/Apr Rangers(H)

Motherwell: 4/Apr Aberdeen(H);11/Apr Rangers(A);18/Apr Saint Mirren(H)

Hamilton Academical: 4/Apr Celtic(A);11/Apr Dundee United(H);18/Apr Inverness CT(A)

Kilmarnock: 4/Apr Heart of Midlothian(A);11/Apr Falkirk(H);18/Apr Dundee United(A)

Saint Mirren: 4/Apr Inverness CT(A);8/Apr Rangers(H);13/Apr Hibernian(H);18/Apr Motherwell(A)

Inverness CT: 4/Apr Saint Mirren(H);11/Apr Aberdeen(A);18/Apr Hamilton Academical(H)

Falkirk: 5/Apr Rangers(H);8/Apr Celtic(A);11/Apr Kilmarnock(A);18/Apr Heart of Midlothian(H)

[topcat]

Wonder which player returned to the team in game 12?

 

 

I don't think anybody's return coincided exactly with game 12 (The ten man win at Saint Mirren) but we seem to be a lot more effective now we've got Aguiar although he'd actually returned a little earlier with an equaliser in the first derby.

 

We only lost 2 games in round 2 (Pittodrie and Fir park) and they were 2 of the 3 that Bruno was missing for (the other being the 0-0 Derby).

[Ryan Gosling]

I don't think anybody's return coincided exactly with game 12 (The ten man win at Saint Mirren) but we seem to be a lot more effective now we've got Aguiar although he'd actually returned a little earlier with an equaliser in the first derby.

 

Templeton's first bench appearance.

 

He is the key.

[Coco]

I don't think anybody's return coincided exactly with game 12 (The ten man win at Saint Mirren) but we seem to be a lot more effective now we've got Aguiar although he'd actually returned a little earlier with an equaliser in the first derby.

 

Game 12 saw the return of Robbie Neilson

 

That game changed the season around. The fans were brilliant that day, particularly when the team really dug in after Stewart was sent off.

[Sparky]

Oooh, I love stats I do.

 

The three rounds of fixtures split is particularly interesting. We need two wins and a draw from our last three games to have as successful a 3rd round as our 2nd round was.

 

If we accept that our first round of games was a bedding-in period for Csaba then we are doing very well since then.

Total pts for last two rounds:

Celtic              +36
Rangers             +35
Heart of Midlothian +35
Aberdeen            +30
Dundee United       +28
Hibernian           +25
Motherwell          +24
Hamilton Academical +24
Kilmarnock          +14
Saint Mirren        +18
Inverness CT        +18
Falkirk             +16

(of course Rangers, Celtic, Falkirk and St Mirren only played 18 games v 19 for the rest)

 

Killie seem to have given up after an impressive 1st round of fixtures! Lets hope their misery continues next week.

 

 

The average goals tables seem to say that if you want to see goals follow Celtic. If you don't then watch Hearts or Aberdeen. And if you want to have a really good sleep then watch a St Midden home game.

 

Good work as always topcat. It'll be interesting to see the stats when we reach the split.

[Flimsy]

topcat, I like stats and appreciate your hard work.

 

I think you should make a distribution list of Peanut, Coco and I for future stats (perhaps head it 'numberwangs') and all the other ungrateful *******s can get tae.

 

Edit. add Sparky, he's dead smart.

[Charlie-Brown]

Excellent stuff TC - also well spotted Sparky - we've been showing form in rounds 2 & 3 of the fixture-list that would put us in Championship contention or perhaps more accurately Rangers & Celtic have shown very mediocre form in the last 3-4 months and only a good opening sequence has put them ahead of the other teams.

[sked21]

Interesting reading cheers guys.

 

The last two rounds combined show a combination that Celtic and Rangers are falling and that Csaba has become accustomed to the league.

[Charlie-Brown]

Points per game is they key indicator - both the Old Firm won the highest proportion of their points in the opening round of fixtures with Celtic 2.55 & Rangers 2.36 points per game with Hearts average only 1.27 points per game ..... since then the averages for the 2nd & 3rd rounds of fixtures are Celtic 1.97 Rangers 1.90 & Hearts 1.83 points per game ..... they key question is can we maintain taking close to that kind of points per game average until the end of this season and just as importantly can we keep it up next season and will the Old Firm continue to average less than 2pts per game?

[Charlie-Brown]

Best thread on JKB for a while.

[Everybody loves Baz]

Like i've said before not many managers have had the better of Csaba second time around, if anything Csaba has learned fast from the first set of fixtures.

[Guest jambomickey]

not bad for a team without a proven striker.

[topcat]

Game 12 saw the return of Robbie Neilson

 

That game changed the season around. The fans were brilliant that day, particularly when the team really dug in after Stewart was sent off.

 

Of course! Sir Robbie of Neilson! well spotted

 

Coincidentally that fixture (St Mirren at Home, Hearts Away) turns out to have been the least likely game all season to produce goals.

[Sparky]

..... they key question is can we maintain taking close to that kind of points per game average until the end of this season and just as importantly can we keep it up next season and will the Old Firm continue to average less than 2pts per game?

 

No.

This season we probably wont. Hopefully we wont need to.

Next season, with the possibility of europe and a few useful new signings we should have a chance of it. Playing in europe generally affects our league form though, especially with a smaller squad.

 

 

No. The Old Firm have been extra-sh*t this last few months. I can certainly see Celtic strengthening in the summer. Rangers wont get much worse unless their finances collapse. A good start to next season could give them a fright.

[Charlie-Brown]

No.

This season we probably wont. Hopefully we wont need to.

Next season, with the possibility of europe and a few useful new signings we should have a chance of it. Playing in europe generally affects our league form though, especially with a smaller squad.

 

 

No. The Old Firm have been extra-sh*t this last few months. I can certainly see Celtic strengthening in the summer. Rangers wont get much worse unless their finances collapse. A good start to next season could give them a fright.

 

I think there is a very good chance Rangers won't improve at all over the summer Sparky - even if they win the SPL & get into the champions league groups I think the banks will simply grab the lions share of that money to reduce debts and there won't be a massive squad strengthening - i also think they could well lose a number of players (regular & fringe players) as they desperately need to slash their wage bill & bring costs under control so overall they won't have the same strength in depth they have now.

 

Celtic's finances have been run much more prudently and they are under much less pressure although I don't think they can financially afford to attract anywhere near the quality of players they have in the last decade and will probably look to attract the likes of Flecherinho & some Championship players or younger Spanish or european players that John Park has identified but whether Strachan or whoever is their manager next season actually plays them who knows?

 

I don't know how much stronger or weaker Hearts or the other teams will be next season but I do know that it will not be possible for the Old Firm to put themselves out of sight of the rest of the SPL with the quality of signings & transfers they had during the Souness/Smith/Advocaat era or the Martin O'Neil era - they will remain much closer to the pack in terms of quality they can afford but it depends on how well the rest of the SPL can organise themselves and mount any challenge to them during the tough financial times Scottish football is undoubtedly facing just now.

[Groot]

Interesting stuff, cheers for the hard work TC

[Charlie-Brown]

Out of interest do you work with statistics TC or are you just naturally numerically interested & gifted?

[Charlie-Brown]

Celtic & Rangers have both scored more goals at home than the next 2 best teams Hearts & Aberdeen have scored in total.

[Flimsy]

Points per game is they key indicator - both the Old Firm won the highest proportion of their points in the opening round of fixtures with Celtic 2.55 & Rangers 2.36 points per game with Hearts average only 1.27 points per game ..... since then the averages for the 2nd & 3rd rounds of fixtures are Celtic 1.97 Rangers 1.90 & Hearts 1.83 points per game ..... they key question is can we maintain taking close to that kind of points per game average until the end of this season and just as importantly can we keep it up next season and will the Old Firm continue to average less than 2pts per game?

 

A 1.27 points average in the last eight games should be enough to get Hearts third place (59 points). As for next season, there are too many variables - Csaba still being here, losing/keeping key players in the summer, bringing in better players, luck with injuries, off field distractions etc. It might sound unambitious but I would be delighted if Hearts reached 60 points every season and have a real go at the Scottish Cup so we can become an established Europa League team. I think even in a poor season both Celtic and Rangers will reach 70+ points and in an average season 80+.

[topcat]

   |CEL|RAN|HEA|DUT|ABD|MOT|HIB|HAM|STM|KIL|ICT|FLK
CEL|   |LwD|wD?|dDd|Wl?|wWd|WlW|Ww?|WwW|wWw|wWd|Ww?
RAN|wLd|   |WlD|DdW|dWd|Wd?|wW?|wWw|lW?|WwW|WwL|wW?
HEA|Ld?|lWd|   |lDw|DlW|WlW|dDl|wWl|WwD|Lw?|WwW|lW?
DUT|DdD|dDl|WdL|   |wWd|dLl|lW?|lD?|WwW|Ll?|WwD|dWw
ABD|lW?|DlD|dWl|LlD|   |wW?|Ldd|LlW|wWd|WwD|Lw?|wWl
MOT|LlD|lD?|lWl|DwW|Ll?|   |wLd|WlW|Wd?|lLd|wWw|WlD
HIB|lWl|Ll?|DdW|Wl?|wDD|LwD|   |wWw|dW?|lLd|dLl|WdD
HAM|lL?|LlL|LlW|Wd?|wWl|lWl|LlL|   |LlD|lWw|wW?|lDw
STM|lLl|Wl?|lLd|lLl|LlD|lD?|Dl?|wWd|   |DwD|wW?|DwD
KIL|LlL|lLl|wL?|wW?|lLd|WwD|WwD|WlL|dLd|   |lLl|Ld?
ICT|LlD|lLw|lLl|lLd|wL?|LlL|DwW|Ll?|Ll?|WwW|   |wDl
FLK|lL?|Ll?|Wl?|DlL|LlW|lWd|lDd|WdL|dLd|wD?|LdW|   

 

Only Rangers have beaten everybody at least once before the split, If we beat Celtic we will have too. Celtic have drawn 3 games against United

 

 

Total Points (for teams that have met 3 times)

   |CEL|RAN|HEA|DUT|ABD|MOT|HIB|HAM|STM|KIL|ICT|FLK
CEL|   | 4 |   | 3 |   | 7 | 6 |   | 9 | 9 | 7 |   
RAN| 4 |   | 4 | 5 | 5 |   |   | 9 |   | 9 | 6 |   
HEA|   | 4 |   | 4 | 4 | 6 | 2 | 6 | 7 |   | 9 |   
DUT| 3 | 2 | 4 |   | 7 | 1 |   |   | 9 |   | 7 | 7 
ABD|   | 2 | 4 | 1 |   |   | 2 | 3 | 7 | 7 |   | 6 
MOT| 1 |   | 3 | 7 |   |   | 4 | 6 |   | 1 | 9 | 4 
HIB| 3 |   | 5 |   | 5 | 4 |   | 9 |   | 1 | 1 | 5 
HAM|   | 0 | 3 |   | 6 | 3 | 0 |   | 1 | 6 |   | 4 
STM| 0 |   | 1 | 0 | 1 |   |   | 7 |   | 5 |   | 5 
KIL| 0 | 0 |   |   | 1 | 7 | 7 | 3 | 2 |   | 0 |   
ICT| 1 | 3 | 0 | 1 |   | 0 | 7 |   |   | 9 |   | 4 
FLK|   |   |   | 1 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 2 |   | 4 |   

 

 

There are a few combinations where one team has taken 9/9 but the notable ones are teams who you would expect to be closely matched.

Hibs, it seems, can't go wrong against Hamilton while Kilmarnock can't handle Inverness.

[The Merse]

   |CEL|RAN|HEA|DUT|ABD|MOT|HIB|HAM|STM|KIL|ICT|FLK
CEL|   |LwD|wD?|dDd|Wl?|wWd|WlW|Ww?|WwW|wWw|wWd|Ww?
RAN|wLd|   |WlD|DdW|dWd|Wd?|wW?|wWw|lW?|WwW|WwL|wW?
HEA|Ld?|lWd|   |lDw|DlW|WlW|dDl|wWl|WwD|Lw?|WwW|lW?
DUT|DdD|dDl|WdL|   |wWd|dLl|lW?|lD?|WwW|Ll?|WwD|dWw
ABD|lW?|DlD|dWl|LlD|   |wW?|Ldd|LlW|wWd|WwD|Lw?|wWl
MOT|LlD|lD?|lWl|DwW|Ll?|   |wLd|WlW|Wd?|lLd|wWw|WlD
HIB|lWl|Ll?|DdW|Wl?|wDD|LwD|   |wWw|dW?|lLd|dLl|WdD
HAM|lL?|LlL|LlW|Wd?|wWl|lWl|LlL|   |LlD|lWw|wW?|lDw
STM|lLl|Wl?|lLd|lLl|LlD|lD?|Dl?|wWd|   |DwD|wW?|DwD
KIL|LlL|lLl|wL?|wW?|lLd|WwD|WwD|WlL|dLd|   |lLl|Ld?
ICT|LlD|lLw|lLl|lLd|wL?|LlL|DwW|Ll?|Ll?|WwW|   |wDl
FLK|lL?|Ll?|Wl?|DlL|LlW|lWd|lDd|WdL|dLd|wD?|LdW|   

 

Only Rangers have beaten everybody at least once before the split, If we beat Celtic we will have too. Celtic have drawn 3 games against United

 

 

Total Points (for teams that have met 3 times)

   |CEL|RAN|HEA|DUT|ABD|MOT|HIB|HAM|STM|KIL|ICT|FLK
CEL|   | 4 |   | 3 |   | 7 | 6 |   | 9 | 9 | 7 |   
RAN| 4 |   | 4 | 5 | 5 |   |   | 9 |   | 9 | 6 |   
HEA|   | 4 |   | 4 | 4 | 6 | 2 | 6 | 7 |   | 9 |   
DUT| 3 | 2 | 4 |   | 7 | 1 |   |   | 9 |   | 7 | 7 
ABD|   | 2 | 4 | 1 |   |   | 2 | 3 | 7 | 7 |   | 6 
MOT| 1 |   | 3 | 7 |   |   | 4 | 6 |   | 1 | 9 | 4 
HIB| 3 |   | 5 |   | 5 | 4 |   | 9 |   | 1 | 1 | 5 
HAM|   | 0 | 3 |   | 6 | 3 | 0 |   | 1 | 6 |   | 4 
STM| 0 |   | 1 | 0 | 1 |   |   | 7 |   | 5 |   | 5 
KIL| 0 | 0 |   |   | 1 | 7 | 7 | 3 | 2 |   | 0 |   
ICT| 1 | 3 | 0 | 1 |   | 0 | 7 |   |   | 9 |   | 4 
FLK|   |   |   | 1 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 2 |   | 4 |   

 

 

There are a few combinations where one team has taken 9/9 but the notable ones are teams who you would expect to be closely matched.

Hibs, it seems, can't go wrong against Hamilton while Kilmarnock can't handle Inverness.

 

Afraid not, we haven't beaten Hibs in the league this season.

 

Quite a shocking statistic really and one which I hadn't actually considered before.

[Hackney Hearts]

Afraid not, we haven't beaten Hibs in the league this season.

 

Quite a shocking statistic really and one which I hadn't actually considered before.

 

Yes, the cup result at ER seems to have overshadowed the less than impressive league results.

[topcat]

Afraid not, we haven't beaten Hibs in the league this season.

 

Quite a shocking statistic really and one which I hadn't actually considered before.

 

Pedantically speaking I was correct because I didn't say "beaten everybody at least once in a league game".

 

Nonetheless your correct we've dropped more points to Hibs than anyone else so far.

 

Aside from that anomoly our results have been fairly normal, We've done better against worse teams and worse against the better ones.

 

Maybe the form book does go out of the window for derbies after all.

 

Or maybe it just goes out the window when Hibs are involved. Their results seem to bear little relation to who they happen to be playing

 

   |CEL|RAN|HEA|ABD|DUT|HIB|MOT|HAM|KIL|STM|ICT|FLK
HIB|lWl|Ll?|DdW|wDD|Wl?|   |LwD|wWw|lLd|dW?|dLl|WdD
HIB| 3 |0+?| 5 | 5 |3+?|   | 4 | 9 | 1 |4+?| 1 | 5 

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Why do these stats not break down by wind direction at kick off?

 

WE NEED TO KNOW!!!!

[Commander Harris]

Why do these stats not break down by wind direction at kick off?

 

WE NEED TO KNOW!!!!

I'm on it...

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

I'm on it...

 

Good man, cant believe the OP tried to palm us off with incomplete stats.

 

The shame!!

[Charlie-Brown]

Hearts Hibs derby games have been as close as possible this season with only 3 goals in total scored in the 3 games so far (1-1, 0-0, 0-1) with Fletcher's lucky shoulder providing the only league victory.

 

EDIT: Hibs have also had home advantage in 3 of the 4 derbies played this season, twice in the 3 league games.

[Commander Harris]

Good man, cant believe the OP tried to palm us off with incomplete stats.

 

The shame!!

in all seriousness, fair play to topcat and others who have contributed. very interesting thread.

 

(p.s. can't find met office stats for tynecastle )

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

in all seriousness, fair play to topcat and others who have contributed. very interesting thread.

 

(p.s. can't find met office stats for tynecastle )

 

Agreed, some good info on here.

 

Thats it, the met office gets it!

[Coco]

For anyone who enjoys the intersection of statistics and sport, would recommend Michael Lewis' book Moneyball.

[sked21]

For anyone who enjoys the intersection of statistics and sport, would recommend Michael Lewis' book Moneyball.

 

Fantastic read. Really got into baseball after reading that.

[topcat]

Top and Bottom 6 Finishes since the split

T	B	TeamName
8	0	Celtic
8	0	Rangers
7	1	Heart of Midlothian
5	3	Aberdeen
5	3	Hibernian
4	4	Kilmarnock
3	5	Motherwell
3	4	Dunfermline Athletic
2	6	Dundee United
2	3	Dundee
1	4	Livingston
0	4	Inverness CT
0	3	Saint Mirren
0	3	Falkirk
0	2	Partick Thistle
0	2	Saint Johnstone
0	1	Gretna

 

Top 6 finishes since the introduction of the split

 

Team	Season	Pts	GD	Pos	Outcome
CEL	2001-02	103	+76	1	CL3
CEL	2003-04	98	+80	1	CLG
RAN	2002-03	97	+73	1	CL3
CEL	2002-03	97	+72	2	CL2
CEL	2000-01	97	+61	1	CL3
RAN	2004-05	93	+56	1	CL3
CEL	2004-05	92	+50	2	CL2
CEL	2005-06	91	+56	1	CLG
CEL	2007-08	89	+58	1	CLG
RAN	2007-08	86	+51	2	CL2
RAN	2001-02	85	+55	2	UC1
CEL	2006-07	84	+31	1	CL3
RAN	2000-01	82	+40	2	CL2
RAN	2003-04	81	+43	2	CL3
HEA	2005-06	74	+40	2	CL2
RAN	2005-06	73	+30	3	UC1
RAN	2006-07	72	+29	2	CL2
HEA	2003-04	68	+16	3	UC1
HIB	2000-01	66	+22	3	UC1
ABD	2006-07	65	+19	3	UC1
HEA	2002-03	63	+6	3	UC1
HEA	2006-07	61	+12	4	
HIB	2004-05	61	+7	3	UC1
ABD	2004-05	61	+5	4	
MOT	2007-08	60	+4	3	UC1
LIV	2001-02	58	+3	3	UCQ
KIL	2002-03	57	-9	4	
HIB	2005-06	56	+5	4	IT2
ABD	2001-02	55	+2	4	UCQ
KIL	2005-06	55	-1	5	
KIL	2006-07	55	-7	5	
ABD	2005-06	54	+6	6	
KIL	2000-01	54	-9	4	UCQ
DNF	2003-04	53	-7	4	
ABD	2007-08	53	-8	4	
HEA	2000-01	52	+6	5	
DUT	2007-08	52	+6	5	
HIB	2007-08	52	+4	6	IT2
HEA	2004-05	50	+2	5	
HIB	2006-07	49	+10	6	
DUT	2003-04	49	-13	5	
MOT	2004-05	48	-3	6	
HEA	2001-02	48	-5	5	
DDE	2000-01	47	+6	6	IT2
MOT	2003-04	46	-7	6	
DNF	2002-03	46	-17	5	
DNF	2001-02	45	-23	6	
DDE	2002-03	44	-10	6	

 

Valdas' 2006-07 Hearts were the best team this century to miss out on Europe.

[Sydney]

P W L D F A GD PTS

Rangers 14 6 5 3 23 13 10 24

Celtic 13 5 3 5 23 21 2 20

Dundee Utd 14 4 3 7 21 18 3 19

Hibs 13 4 2 7 13 18 -5 17

Hearts 14 3 4 7 10 16 -6 15

Aberdeen 14 2 6 6 16 20 -4 12

 

Our weakness is when we play the other top six teams - we just don't win often enough - and our performances and results against Hibs have been WOEFUL this season.

 

This table shows what the top six would be like if we were in our own wee league.

[Sydney]

Hmmm, not the best formatting...

[Coco]

Actually, the other interesting thing about the end of round one is that the results start to improve as soon as Ksnavicius is no longer in the Hearts squad. Add a positive - the return of Robbie and remove a negative - the departure of Ksnavicius - and it is good news for the Hearts fans.

[topcat]

             	P	W	L	D	F	A	GD	PTS
Rangers    	14	6	5	3	23	13	10	24
Celtic    	13	5	3	5	23	21	2	20
Dundee Utd	14	4	3	7	21	18	3	19
Hibs     	13	4	2	7	13	18	-5	17
Hearts     	14	3	4	7	10	16	-6	15
Aberdeen	14	2	6	6	16	20	-4	12

 

Our weakness is when we play the other top six teams - we just don't win often enough - and our performances and results against Hibs have been WOEFUL this season.

 

This table shows what the top six would be like if we were in our own wee league.

 

That of course is assuming Hibs make it into the top 6.

[Charlie-Brown]

P W L D F A GD PTS

Rangers 14 6 5 3 23 13 10 24

Celtic 13 5 3 5 23 21 2 20

Dundee Utd 14 4 3 7 21 18 3 19

Hibs 13 4 2 7 13 18 -5 17

Hearts 14 3 4 7 10 16 -6 15

Aberdeen 14 2 6 6 16 20 -4 12

 

Our weakness is when we play the other top six teams - we just don't win often enough - and our performances and results against Hibs have been WOEFUL this season.

 

This table shows what the top six would be like if we were in our own wee league.

 

We've only lost 4 out of 14 games v top 6 rivals - too many draws though.

 

Results v Hibs haven't been woeful - they've been very very close in all 4 games with a win each & 2 low scoring draws - only 5 goals in total in the 4 games played thus far.

 

Anyway your wee top 6 league table would still see us finish in 3rd place assuming we started from our current 5 point advantage and each team maintained their points per game ratio v other top 6 teams.........actually 2 points advantage at the start of the split would be enough based on your wee table.

[topcat]

Pts/Pld for each round for matches between top 6 teams based on different top sixes.

 

As Is (Motherwell don't catch Hibs)

Rangers             11/5 +  7/5 +  6/4 = 24/14
Celtic              10/5 +  5/5 +  5/3 = 20/13
Dundee United        8/5 +  9/5 +  2/4 = 19/14
Hibernian            7/5 +  5/5 +  4/3 = 16/13
Heart of Midlothian  2/5 +  6/5 +  7/4 = 15/14
Aberdeen             2/5 +  7/5 +  3/4 = 12/14

As mentioned earlier our form has improved in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Most of that improvement has come against the better sides. Dundee United on the other hand have gone even more off the boil in this context than they have in general.

 

If Hibs Miss out

Rangers             11/5 +  5/5 +  6/4 = 22/14
Celtic              10/5 +  8/5 +  3/3 = 21/13
Heart of Midlothian  4/5 +  5/5 + 10/4 = 19/14
Dundee United        9/5 +  6/5 +  2/5 = 17/15
Aberdeen             5/5 +  9/5 +  2/3 = 16/13
Motherwell           1/5 +  7/5 +  4/3 = 12/13

Our League derbies have been poor, Dundee United seemingly can't handle Motherwell.

 

While those two are the most likely members of the top 6 I'll list a couple of other options

 

If Aberdeen Miss out

Celtic              10/5 +  8/5 +  6/4 = 24/14
Rangers             13/5 +  5/5 +  5/3 = 23/13
Heart of Midlothian  4/5 +  6/5 +  7/4 = 17/14
Motherwell           4/5 +  7/5 +  5/4 = 16/14
Hibernian            4/5 +  7/5 +  4/3 = 15/13
Dundee United        6/5 +  6/5 +  1/4 = 13/14

 

If Dundee United Miss out

Celtic              12/5 +  7/5 +  5/3 = 24/13
Rangers             13/5 +  7/5 +  3/3 = 23/13
Aberdeen             5/5 + 10/5 +  2/3 = 17/13
Hibernian            4/5 +  8/5 +  5/4 = 17/14
Heart of Midlothian  5/5 +  5/5 +  7/4 = 17/14
Motherwell           3/5 +  4/5 +  2/3 =  9/13