Sydney Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 If all the players had been the same, but Csaba had been in charge for 06/07, would we have qualified for the Champions League group stages? I say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckauskas Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 No. AEK stuffed us because of the fact they were FAR better than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 No. AEK stuffed us because of the fact they were FAR better than us. And the ref was a complete "shop front":hammer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makateer Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 AEK were a different class to us, but we might have made it to the UEFA cup group stages with Csaba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackney Hearts Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 No. AEK stuffed us because of the fact they were FAR better than us. Better than us, maybe. But having taken the lead, we should definitely have won the match at Murrayfield. Aguiar getting sent off was a killer. I get furious now every time I see someone kicking the ball away - and it happens ALL THE TIME - and no action is taken. Why did it have to happen in that match? It certainly wasn't particularly blatant. And we'd better not even mention the Brellier sending off. When has wearing jewellery cost us a match before or since? Even in the away leg - playing with 9 MEN - it took a penalty 11 minutes from time to break the deadlock. So I'm not sure they were that much better than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 If all the players had been the same, but Csaba had been in charge for 06/07, would we have qualified for the Champions League group stages? I say yes. No, but if Romanov had followed through his initial investment we might have. I dont think we'd have taken the lead at Murrayfield had he been in charge. Whether we'd have conceded is another story... The reality is that Romanov needed to have his shot at calling the shots in the Champs League, hence the puppeteering.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Better than us, maybe. But having taken the lead, we should definitely have won the match at Murrayfield. Aguiar getting sent off was a killer. I get furious now every time I see someone kicking the ball away - and it happens ALL THE TIME - and no action is taken. Why did it have to happen in that match? It certainly wasn't particularly blatant. And we'd better not even mention the Brellier sending off. When has wearing jewellery cost us a match before or since? Even in the away leg - playing with 9 MEN - it took a penalty 11 minutes from time to break the deadlock. So I'm not sure they were that much better than us. They were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I know for Hearts, a crowd of 32,000 was a big deal but by all accounts, the bars around Gorgie were full that night. I thought we should've had 50,000 there. It was pehaps, the biggest game cup tie in the club's history. As for the team, I think the OP has a point. I think Csaba's team could've seen the game out with a 1-0 win. Would AEK have been so confident for the 2nd leg? Athens were better than us, no doubt. But that doesn't mean to say they couldn't have been beaten. Buffalo Bill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flimsy Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Looking at the list of teams we could have drawn, AEK Athens were one of the weakest. On a European football forum I sometimes look at, many people thought Hearts would win. Reality hit home at the game though, aside from Cruzeiro a couple of decades ago, AEK were the best overseas team I've seen Hearts play. Their passing was outstanding form start to finish, they had about 30 shots and they never changed their style all the way to the end. I don't think they knew how to approach the game in Greece so they kept it tight, much the same as Sparta Prague did a few weeks later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdoffstl Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Away leg would have been really interesting if Hartley had netted that free header. Not knocking him by the way - I know he was just back from a long lay off etc I just believe a match fit PH would have buried that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I think Hearts would've got by Sparta Prague actually and got in the UEFA groups. We also missed out on 3rd place that year on the last day - Csaba in charge, we would've got 3rd. Ohh the if's and but's....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckauskas Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I think Hearts would've got by Sparta Prague actually and got in the UEFA groups. We also missed out on 3rd place that year on the last day - Csaba in charge, we would've got 3rd. Ohh the if's and but's....! Winning on the last day was irrelevant. Aberdeen beat Rangers to clinch Europe that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Winchester Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Winning on the last day was irrelevant. Aberdeen beat Rangers to clinch Europe that year. He didnt say anything about Csaba winning the game on the last day he said if we had him in charge we'd have had third. Most likely long before the last game of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Better than us, maybe. But having taken the lead, we should definitely have won the match at Murrayfield. Aguiar getting sent off was a killer. I get furious now every time I see someone kicking the ball away - and it happens ALL THE TIME - and no action is taken. Why did it have to happen in that match? It certainly wasn't particularly blatant. And we'd better not even mention the Brellier sending off. When has wearing jewellery cost us a match before or since? Even in the away leg - playing with 9 MEN - it took a penalty 11 minutes from time to break the deadlock. So I'm not sure they were that much better than us. The ball incident gets my blood up. Spongebobbackpassbarry does it all the time, including picking up the ball and walking away. On the subject of picking up the ball, why was Elvis not booked at the infomous penalty? Players kicking the ball away was only ever punished during one or two seasons when it was a Hearts player who did it. It was the same story with player booked for celabrating. how often does that get punished now? Back to the main OP Yes they were better but as has been stated I think we could well have held them. Rangers last weekend shows how well we have managed recently and how every team is there for the taking with a little gile and fortitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackney Hearts Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 They were. I said they were better. But if they really were FAR better, as Eckauskas says, how come they took till the very last minute of the first game to equalise (where we'd had a player very harshly sent off) - and then only with the aid of an OUTRAGEOUS deflection managed to beat us? If they were FAR better - how come they played against 9 men in the 2nd game (with the help of the old jewellery rule) and still needed a penalty 11 minutes from time to clinch it? (Even allowing for the "they didn't know how to approach the game" theory). Yes they played some very pretty football in the first match. But most of their threat IIRC came from countless (admittedly good) shots from distance. We defended very well. Gordon had a great game. We scored a good goal, and had a couple of excellent chances to get another - as did Mole (!) in the 2nd leg. When we went 1-0 up, Murrayfield came the closest it's ever been to 'rocking' - we had the momentum, who knows what would have happened -but the timing (and cause) Aguiar's dismissal was very cruel. Whereas Tynie might have used this injustice to fuel the fervour, Murrayfield went nervous and sulky. So yes, AEK were better than us. But over the two legs we had way more than our fair share of bad luck. I've seen matches where Hearts have been truly outclassed - and in those games we've not even had a chance let alone a goal; and often conceded several. With luck on our side, this was a tie we could have won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 He didnt say anything about Csaba winning the game on the last day he said if we had him in charge we'd have had third. Most likely long before the last game of the season. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Who knows what would have happened, all conjecture. I am not one of those that goes along with this train of thought that Csaba Laszlo is a superb manager. I base our position in the SPL at this time on the quality of the other teams around us, we are picking up more points than the others, playing a standard of football not greatly improved from what was on show last season, an improvement results wise, yes, but football wise there has not been a dramatic improvement. The standard in the SPL is poor at the moment, and any half decent manager who can get a half decent team picking up points will benefit. That is what Laszlo is doing at Hearts, he ain't no Messiah, and we are far from being superstars or European stalwarts of any description. People are possibly getting a little bit carried away by our present league position, look around at the standard of opposition, look around at some of those teams we have lost to. Our tactics this season may well have picked us up a few points, but I would say they have also cost us a few points; playing 4-5-1 against teams at the lower end of the league, especially at Tynecastle, has been a poor choice on occasions. Would we have still lost to AEK Athens over two legs, yes. We failed to hang onto a lead we got at Murrayfield, a lead we might not have had if we had played a rigid 4-5-1. Technically we were played off the park that night, and they converted their technical superiority into goals late in the game, which it is not unknown for European teams to do. We simply ran out of puff in Athens, lacked imagination after a reasonably bright start. Ended up well beaten. The thread subject is as much conjecture as that old chestnut "would we have won the league if Burley stayed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Who knows what would have happened, all conjecture. I am not one of those that goes along with this train of thought that Csaba Laszlo is a superb manager. I base our position in the SPL at this time on the quality of the other teams around us, we are picking up more points than the others, playing a standard of football not greatly improved from what was on show last season, an improvement results wise, yes, but football wise there has not been a dramatic improvement. The standard in the SPL is poor at the moment, and any half decent manager who can get a half decent team picking up points will benefit. That is what Laszlo is doing at Hearts, he ain't no Messiah, and we are far from being superstars or European stalwarts of any description. People are possibly getting a little bit carried away by our present league position, look around at the standard of opposition, look around at some of those teams we have lost to. Our tactics this season may well have picked us up a few points, but I would say they have also cost us a few points; playing 4-5-1 against teams at the lower end of the league, especially at Tynecastle, has been a poor choice on occasions. Would we have still lost to AEK Athens over two legs, yes. We failed to hang onto a lead we got at Murrayfield, a lead we might not have had if we had played a rigid 4-5-1. Technically we were played off the park that night, and they converted their technical superiority into goals late in the game, which it is not unknown for European teams to do. We simply ran out of puff in Athens, lacked imagination after a reasonably bright start. Ended up well beaten. The thread subject is as much conjecture as that old chestnut "would we have won the league if Burley stayed". One thing I would say Iain is that Csaba is a superb man-manager: if not a great tactician. A quick glance through the squad shows improvements on the player-for-player front in nearly all positions from 07/08. I agree though that the quality of the SPL is dire compared to say 2002/03 or 2005/06. As for AEK/Csaba - I know it's all conjecture, but supposing we had that 1-0 lead - I wouldn't have put it past him to have taken us through. As I said, AEK were way better than us technically, but great techncal teams can be beaten. I'm a great believer in fine margins. Buffalo Bill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 And if Hearts had all the best players in the world and the best manager we would win the league. Pointless thread. Just like, if Burley had stayed would we have won the league chats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balders Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 We were played off the park at Murrayfield beacuase we played 4-4-2 IMO. Emerson sat in front of their defence dictating the play all game and was not picked up cos our 2 up front were stood in a line. It was infuriatng me all game that nobody from the bench could see that and tell one of the front men to drop back into midfield to pick him up. I am not saying we would have won but Csaba would have had us tactically better prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_3892 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 so many ifs and buts about the past. lets see how csaba gets on in seasons to come. if we get a crop of players like 05/06 again see how he does with them. look to the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 If all the players had been the same, but Csaba had been in charge for 06/07, would we have qualified for the Champions League group stages? I say yes. No chance He's have had Skacel in central defense and Hartley right back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 And if Hearts had all the best players in the world and the best manager we would win the league. Pointless thread. Just like, if Burley had stayed would we have won the league chats! I agree that the 'we would've won the league under Burley' has became something of a hackneyed truism, but I still think that threads like this have a certain validity. For a start, we're re-opening debate on an important event from the past which might still have un-answered questions; and doing so by comparing our current manager in order to guage new evidence. Maybe it's all supposition but it beats the hell out of 'any pubs in Benidorm showing the derby' threads. There's nothing pointless about good debate. Buffalo Bill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I agree that the 'we would've won the league under Burley' has became something of a hackneyed truism, but I still think that threads like this have a certain validity. For a start, we're re-opening debate on an important event from the past which might still have un-answered questions; and doing so by comparing our current manager in order to guage new evidence. Maybe it's all supposition but it beats the hell out of 'any pubs in Benidorm showing the derby' threads. There's nothing pointless about good debate. Buffalo Bill . True, all supposition but as you say, beats the "hey look at me!!! im on holiday", sorry i mean the does anyone know of any pubs in X showing the game threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudi Skacel Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I agree that the 'we would've won the league under Burley' has became something of a hackneyed truism, but I still think that threads like this have a certain validity. I dont think the "We would have won the league under Burley" topic will go away for a long long time. It is going to remain one of Scottish footballs arguments for a good few years yet just because of the way things happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 its all conjecture but I am sure that Burley's team playing the way the had the season before would have qualified, no question The Champions League games came at exactly the wrong time as team morale was at its lowest after Vlad's meddling / Rix / Ivanauskas etc so even Sir Alex would have struggled to lift them We played some of our worst football in years in those games and can still remember Fysass being as useful as a traffic cone in the games at Tynecastle he seemed to have lost all his pace and sharpness overnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 From the first minute of the AEK game at Muddyfield, they were all over us. It was nothing less than a miracle that they weren't 3 or 4 ahead when Miko scored our goal. Losing the game in the last minute was harsh and the second leg was a farce. Hartley and Mole both missing sitters and us having men sent off for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 AEK were streets ahead of us at Tynecastle - they had true pace and could find their own players. I doubt Czaba could have changed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meister Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 No. AEK stuffed us because of the fact they were FAR better than us. Think this thread ended with this answer !! Was there that night and doubt it would have turned out positively if Sir Eck had been in charge.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckauskas Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 AEK were streets ahead of us at Tynecastle - they had true pace and could find their own players. I doubt Czaba could have changed that. What game were you at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 We had a lot of injuries before the AEK game at Murrayfield. Csaba may be good but he cannot get the likes of Jankauskas fit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.