Walter Kidd Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 The old French can protest - from the student riots of the late 60's to the latest round of protests over Sarkozy's handling of the economy. Why is it that we leave it to the unwashed to have a run at the Old Bill before anything happens? The Poll Tax riots were the last stand to giving it to the establishment. The best thing to happen from that was Churchill's statue being defaced. Well he did set the army on the miners in the 30's. So. When did Britain lose it's mojo? And is it time to give the Old Bill another kicking? Rage against the Machine, Kickbackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I'm a wee bit stoned so in turn can't really be ersed writing out a full reply, but you're right. I will say this though, people are now conditioned to accept, not question. People are so blas? thesedays about things they should really care a lot more about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3inaBednar Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Fear of a criminal record I reckon. The Police will do you for ANY public disturbance these days and the effect that has on employment chances etc is quite marked. The saying ' why should I when he isn't' comes to mind i.e why should i get a criminal record when the man next door won't make the same sacrifice. Protest = police charge these days, french Police seem happy to just beat you up and let you go which I'd much prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 It's not the British way though, is it? We moan and gripe like almost no-one else - yet when push comes to shove, are a conservative, cautious people. Of course, times of social and economic dislocation lead to trouble of some sort - but the poll tax riots (bloody justified they were too!), Mods and Rockers, miners strike and so on belonged to a more troubled age than this one, I'd say. At Wimbledon every year, the queue stretches for miles, and people wait quietly for hours on end. Yet if you go to EuroDisney, the locals barge in front of you without a moment's thought, leading me to conclude that if you tried to hold Wimbledon abroad, there'd be riots rather than queues. The London Underground is so appalling that you'd think public disorder would eventually break out - it surely would in France or Italy. Yet somehow it never does. Most of the big economic and social issues of our time have been settled, for better or worse. Which results in apathy, disenchantment - but rarely protest, let alone revolution. Except if you count the foxhunting protests, I suppose: I have to admit to laughing at all those who derided the miners as **** getting their comeuppance at the hands of the law! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor FinnBarr Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 The old French can protest - from the student riots of the late 60's to the latest round of protests over Sarkozy's handling of the economy. Why is it that we leave it to the unwashed to have a run at the Old Bill before anything happens? The Poll Tax riots were the last stand to giving it to the establishment. The best thing to happen from that was Churchill's statue being defaced. Well he did set the army on the miners in the 30's. So. When did Britain lose it's mojo? And is it time to give the Old Bill another kicking? Rage against the Machine, Kickbackers. Get back into you're shed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I work beside a number of people from Europe and from India, who are also astonished at the detached and seemingly passionless way that people here watch their jobs, their savings, their pensions, their services... be taken from right under their noses. To think that this city was once historically home to the notorious "Edinburgh mob", who if they felt wronged would get down the high street, grab the guy out the cells and make sure justice was served ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 It's about time for us to stand up for ourselves. How about we start with a march on the council HQ. The feckers are bringing Edinburgh to it's knees with their wonderful tram plan. Get the Molotovs out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 It's not the British way though, is it? We moan and gripe like almost no-one else - yet when push comes to shove, are a conservative, cautious people. Of course, times of social and economic dislocation lead to trouble of some sort - but the poll tax riots (bloody justified they were too!), Mods and Rockers, miners strike and so on belonged to a more troubled age than this one, I'd say. At Wimbledon every year, the queue stretches for miles, and people wait quietly for hours on end. Yet if you go to EuroDisney, the locals barge in front of you without a moment's thought, leading me to conclude that if you tried to hold Wimbledon abroad, there'd be riots rather than queues. The London Underground is so appalling that you'd think public disorder would eventually break out - it surely would in France or Italy. Yet somehow it never does. Most of the big economic and social issues of our time have been settled, for better or worse. Which results in apathy, disenchantment - but rarely protest, let alone revolution. Except if you count the foxhunting protests, I suppose: I have to admit to laughing at all those who derided the miners as **** getting their comeuppance at the hands of the law! Good post! The other point is that any whiff of protest in France and the government collectively soils its pants. Wonder if they think the guillotine is going to be wheeled out? Generally, British governments ignore protests (witness the Iraq war protests) and stagger on to an election. It's worth noting that the Poll Tax riots did eventually lead to Thatcher resigning but the Tories won the subsequent election. Similarly, Blair won the subsequent General Election after Iraq so it is debatable what protest actually achieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Has protesting ever worked in Britain? Not taking the ****, just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Good post! The other point is that any whiff of protest in France and the government collectively soils its pants. Wonder if they think the guillotine is going to be wheeled out? Generally, British governments ignore protests (witness the Iraq war protests) and stagger on to an election. It's worth noting that the Poll Tax riots did eventually lead to Thatcher resigning but the Tories won the subsequent election. Similarly, Blair won the subsequent General Election after Iraq so it is debatable what protest actually achieves. Too true. A big advantage (or weakness, depending on how you look at it) of our electoral system is it encourages stable government. You often see a British PM at the forefront of world events because, unless it's a hung Parliament, they don't have any coalitions to worry about. A German Chancellor can't be gung ho about any war because the Greens would leave their administration in an instant; not so here. And a French leader has different sorts of employment law to concern himself with; precisely what Sarkozy is trying to change, of course. You could argue that the Iraq protests furthered Blair's desire to try and mediate with Bush. Shock and Awe might have been a lot more shocking and awesome had they never happened, I'd say. And the poll tax riots helped rid us of the poll tax itself, which was the main point of the exercise: trouble is, we just got another iniquitous tax instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Has protesting ever worked in Britain? Not taking the ****, just wondering. Very rarely. Politics often takes a decade or more to catch up with popular opinion, so the impact of protests is usually minimal in the short term. I'm not sure exactly how the Suffragette Movement worked, but that could be one example I guess? There's always been a mob though: the lower orders (apologies, I'm talking in nineteenth century language here) have always rioted from time to time, sometimes at the behest of cynical politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Very rarely. Politics often takes a decade or more to catch up with popular opinion, so the impact of protests is usually minimal in the short term. I'm not sure exactly how the Suffragette Movement worked, but that could be one example I guess? There's always been a mob though: the lower orders (apologies, I'm talking in nineteenth century language here) have always rioted from time to time, sometimes at the behest of cynical politicians. Public opinion of course is febrile and easily manipulated. I also protested pre Iraq war and I was bloody angry then about what seemed inevitable. Opinion polls at that time had the same anti-war sentiment. When the war began though - and with our "brave lads" going into action and all the pyrotechnics of modern warfare on the TV screen, public opinion went to being supportive of the war. An easy victory. A walk-over it seemed.... It then switched again - and has stayed at anti-war ... as it all unravelled once the false premise, the big lie, all became blindingly obvious. Is it any wonder that politicians feel free to ignore protest when they have the propaganda and media tools at their disposal to deceive people and to alter their sheep-like opinions ? Is it any wonder that people who care, therefore see so little point in protesting any more ? They're betrayed doubly ... by deceitful government and the easily-led malleable majority of the population who can change their mind on the great issues in the relative blink of any eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Public opinion of course is febrile and easily manipulated. I also protested pre Iraq war and I was bloody angry then about what seemed inevitable. Opinion polls at that time had the same anti-war sentiment. When the war began though - and with our "brave lads" going into action and all the pyrotechnics of modern warfare on the TV screen, public opinion went to being supportive of the war. An easy victory. A walk-over it seemed.... It then switched again - and has stayed at anti-war ... as it all unravelled once the false premise, the big lie, all became blindingly obvious. Is it any wonder that politicians feel free to ignore protest when they have the propaganda and media tools at their disposal to deceive people and to alter their sheep-like opinions ? Is it any wonder that people who care, therefore see so little point in protesting any more ? They're betrayed doubly ... by deceitful government and the easily-led malleable majority of the population who can change their mind on the great issues in the relative blink of any eye. Certainly a fair point. One thing though: we live in a representative democracy, and have the power to throw a government out at the time of a general election. If you'd put suing for peace to a vote in May 1940, there's little doubt that most Britons would've been desperate to avoid further bloodshed, not least because we seemed close to defeat anyway. Frankly, those who protested against Iraq were proven right, and then some. But war must never, ever be a popularity contest. If it was, our capacity to defeat adversaries and withstand casualties would disappear immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 It's like the old Australian joke. How can you tell when a plane is full of Englishmen? The engines stop but the whining noise doesn't stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I work beside a number of people from Europe and from India, who are also astonished at the detached and seemingly passionless way that people here watch their jobs, their savings, their pensions, their services... be taken from right under their noses. To think that this city was once historically home to the notorious "Edinburgh mob", who if they felt wronged would get down the high street, grab the guy out the cells and make sure justice was served ! Aye coz 'mob rule' is such a wonderful way to run a country. For all it's mistakes, and there are hundreds, I'd rather have the way it runs at present than the dictatorship of the 'moral majority'. Some of our more reactionary posters wouldn't have liked the Edinburgh Mob, as they were pretty much associated with the anti Act of the Union group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Aye coz 'mob rule' is such a wonderful way to run a country. For all it's mistakes, and there are hundreds, I'd rather have the way it runs at present than the dictatorship of the 'moral majority'. Some of our more reactionary posters wouldn't have liked the Edinburgh Mob, as they were pretty much associated with the anti Act of the Union group. A fair point, but I think Drew's point has validity in the sense that people either don't realise what has been afflicted upon them in this economic catastrophe, or do but either feel powerless to do anything about it or accept it as inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 A fair point, but I think Drew's point has validity in the sense that people either don't realise what has been afflicted upon them in this economic catastrophe, or do but either feel powerless to do anything about it or accept it as inevitable. I think it's the latter to be honest. People feel it is futile to protest as who can really do anything about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 A fair point, but I think Drew's point has validity in the sense that people either don't realise what has been afflicted upon them in this economic catastrophe, or do but either feel powerless to do anything about it or accept it as inevitable. True, but apart from those who have been affected directly by losing their jobs I really have little sympathy. Those who have invested in the stock market and lost have only themselves to blame. The stock market is just a casino and investing is just a gamble. I don't see a mass rush for those that lose at the the backgammon table to be compensated by the government. Those that have bought property at the inflated prices of the last few years and then have seen it lose value, I do have a bit more sympathy with, but unless they are selling now they have lost nothing. The property only has a real value when you sell it and the price will rise in time. Much of the problem is because people have been wanting everything now and buying it on credit. An economy based on that cannot last and if people were to blinkered to see it, it is their own fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 It's like the old Australian joke. How can you tell when a plane is full of Englishmen? The engines stop but the whining noise doesn't stop. Which strikes me as the teeny-weeniest bit hypocritical, no? Though in the spirit of Anglo-Australian banter, I feel duty bound to respond with: Q: What's the Australian version of foreplay? A: "Oi, Sheila - you awake?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 True, but apart from those who have been affected directly by losing their jobs I really have little sympathy. Those who have invested in the stock market and lost have only themselves to blame. The stock market is just a casino and investing is just a gamble. I don't see a mass rush for those that lose at the the backgammon table to be compensated by the government. Those that have bought property at the inflated prices of the last few years and then have seen it lose value, I do have a bit more sympathy with, but unless they are selling now they have lost nothing. The property only has a real value when you sell it and the price will rise in time. Much of the problem is because people have been wanting everything now and buying it on credit. An economy based on that cannot last and if people were to blinkered to see it, it is their own fault. I take your point and have equally little sympathy for those who played roulette with their mortgages, buy-to-lets, credit-cards etc etc However on the other hand my in-laws are retiring next year. They've never put a foot wrong, never over-extended themselves. They've saved a little but interest levels are rock-bottom. Their so-called pension pots are bloody small but they worked just as hard as yer average banker (sorry Geoff !) and yet their reward at the end of 40 years is absurdly disproprtionate. Similarly there are many people losing their jobs who also played it by the book. When you add it all up there are probaly several million people in these categories who played with a straight bat and are now getting shafted. Maybe as time goes on we will see some anger. Definitely feel the fat lady hasn't sung yet and with the IMF indicating that the UK will struggle badly relative to other European countries in the (ahem) "recovery"... maybe we'll yet see angry and public anger from those who have every right to be genuinely p|ssed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I take your point and have equally little sympathy for those who played roulette with their mortgages, buy-to-lets, credit-cards etc etc However on the other hand my in-laws are retiring next year. They've never put a foot wrong, never over-extended themselves. They've saved a little but interest levels are rock-bottom. Their so-called pension pots are bloody small but they worked just as hard as yer average banker (sorry Geoff !) and yet their reward at the end of 40 years is absurdly disproprtionate. Similarly there are many people losing their jobs who also played it by the book. When you add it all up there are probaly several million people in these categories who played with a straight bat and are now getting shafted. Maybe as time goes on we will see some anger. Definitely feel the fat lady hasn't sung yet and with the IMF indicating that the UK will struggle badly relative to other European countries in the (ahem) "recovery"... maybe we'll yet see angry and public anger from those who have every right to be genuinely p|ssed off. Touche (would add I only work in Marketing and try and tell the bankers where to go to find their next bonus, but anyway...!) As for the rest of your post, I agree wholeheartedly. While it would be fine in Sheriff's post to see the feckless punished, the truth is that those who haven't played the system are the ones that are being punished because their savings and pensions are being raped to bailout everyone else out of the mess. Then watch as stagflation kicks in through HMG 's reckless borrowing splurge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Edit: slighty tangential to the main point but it would relate to public anger I suppose. I was at the HBOS footy dinner at Tynie on Thursday night. Not a banker myself but been a guest a few times now (always a good night). The majority of the people at my table, HBOS bankers... Each of them at various stages of transition as the Lloyds takeover rolls over the top of them. A couple of them contemplating retirement (including my friend) after 25-30 years at BofS, now Lloyds/HBOS of course. No names/no pack drill but my mate could take some feck-off money/retirement at 50 ... and still continue to send his kids to their respective private schools. And no he is NOT exactly in the financial league of Fred Goodwin. Further evidence of the reality gap as the evening went on. Making small chat with the guy to my right, he asked me what school I send my son to. When I mentioned the inner-city primary school that he attends (rather than is "sent to" aka "paid for") I could sense that our conversation would dwindle away rapidly... Perhaps thats just Edinburgh for you.... Some other observations from the table. 1) Several are up and down to London for the ongoing merger. Their discretionary daily spending cap for grub in London had been set at 25 quid which they felt was way way too unrealistically low. If only they could hear themselves.... 2) During this merger process (and no surprise here of course) the consultants (Accenture and all these mobs I presume) are on a financial feeding frenzy as the structures/process engineering/data systems etc of the 2 banks are brought together. So you'll be glad to know that a big chunk of your bale-out money is keeping thousands of consultants on an exalted life-style. All these people are still living in a bubble and will live in a bubble until the very very last second in which it is possible to do so. Its a different and parallel reality these folks live in and god for those millions who ARE about to take the biggest hit of their adult lives through job losses, tax increases, service cuts, p|ss poor pensions, then believe me, they SHOULD be bloody angry ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Touche (would add I only work in Marketing and try and tell the bankers where to go to find their next bonus, but anyway...!) As for the rest of your post, I agree wholeheartedly. While it would be fine in Sheriff's post to see the feckless punished, the truth is that those who haven't played the system are the ones that are being punished because their savings and pensions are being raped to bailout everyone else out of the mess. Then watch as stagflation kicks in through HMG 's reckless borrowing splurge. Whilst I agree that many who haven't played the system are being affected, pensions are not being used to bail anything out. Pensions are low because they were too reliant on investing in the stock market. That is not the fault of the people whose pensions are too low (they should have been advised to spread the money amoungst a number of differing investment types). As to HM's borrowing, government borrowing tends to increase during downturns in the economy and what Brown is doing is nothing different. There is quite a high level of overblown panic about what is happening at the moment though. Unemployment is nothing like what it was in the '80s and very unlikely to get that bad. The cost of borrowing is nothing compared to what is was then either, and whilst it is harder to borrow in the first place that is no real bad thing. One of the mojor reasons we have got into this mess is because it was too easy to borrow and people who shouldn't have had a snowballs chance in hell of borrowing have got themselves over their heads. Yes it might have gone a bit too far in the other direction, but it will ease up eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Whilst I agree that many who haven't played the system are being affected, pensions are not being used to bail anything out. Pensions are low because they were too reliant on investing in the stock market. That is not the fault of the people whose pensions are too low (they should have been advised to spread the money amoungst a number of differing investment types). As to HM's borrowing, government borrowing tends to increase during downturns in the economy and what Brown is doing is nothing different. There is quite a high level of overblown panic about what is happening at the moment though. Unemployment is nothing like what it was in the '80s and very unlikely to get that bad. The cost of borrowing is nothing compared to what is was then either, and whilst it is harder to borrow in the first place that is no real bad thing. One of the mojor reasons we have got into this mess is because it was too easy to borrow and people who shouldn't have had a snowballs chance in hell of borrowing have got themselves over their heads. Yes it might have gone a bit too far in the other direction, but it will ease up eventually. All I would say in response is watch how the pension funds will almost be 'forced' to buy the government debt in a bid to assuage a gilts strike. Then you will see pension returns start to fall. Couple that with stagflation and private pensions not increasing in line with the higher inflation in the system, or with those who have bought annuities with lower levels of pension escalation. As for unemployment, it won't peak until 2011-12 as it is a lagging indicator of recession and the UK won't be out of recession till 2011 based on most economic forecasts. It will easily surpass the 3m level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boaby Ewing Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Edit: slighty tangential to the main point but it would relate to public anger I suppose. I was at the HBOS footy dinner at Tynie on Thursday night. Not a banker myself but been a guest a few times now (always a good night). The majority of the people at my table, HBOS bankers... Each of them at various stages of transition as the Lloyds takeover rolls over the top of them. A couple of them contemplating retirement (including my friend) after 25-30 years at BofS, now Lloyds/HBOS of course. No names/no pack drill but my mate could take some feck-off money/retirement at 50 ... and still continue to send his kids to their respective private schools. And no he is NOT exactly in the financial league of Fred Goodwin. Further evidence of the reality gap as the evening went on. Making small chat with the guy to my right, he asked me what school I send my son to. When I mentioned the inner-city primary school that he attends (rather than is "sent to" aka "paid for") I could sense that our conversation would dwindle away rapidly... Perhaps thats just Edinburgh for you.... Some other observations from the table. 1) Several are up and down to London for the ongoing merger. Their discretionary daily spending cap for grub in London had been set at 25 quid which they felt was way way too unrealistically low. If only they could hear themselves.... 2) During this merger process (and no surprise here of course) the consultants (Accenture and all these mobs I presume) are on a financial feeding frenzy as the structures/process engineering/data systems etc of the 2 banks are brought together. So you'll be glad to know that a big chunk of your bale-out money is keeping thousands of consultants on an exalted life-style. All these people are still living in a bubble and will live in a bubble until the very very last second in which it is possible to do so. Its a different and parallel reality these folks live in and god for those millions who ARE about to take the biggest hit of their adult lives through job losses, tax increases, service cuts, p|ss poor pensions, then believe me, they SHOULD be bloody angry ! I just made a little sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 As for unemployment, it won't peak until 2011-12 as it is a lagging indicator of recession and the UK won't be out of recession till 2011 based on most economic forecasts. It will easily surpass the 3m level. I would be suprised if unemployment got as bad as it did in the early '80s or the high levels lasted as long. Even in the height of the 'boom' in the late '80s unemployment was at 1.6 million. I will say that I'm glad I decided to go back to being a student again and won't be on the job market until 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I would be suprised if unemployment got as bad as it did in the early '80s or the high levels lasted as long. Even in the height of the 'boom' in the late '80s unemployment was at 1.6 million. I will say that I'm glad I decided to go back to being a student again and won't be on the job market until 2011. Twice unemployment was at the 3Million level under the Tories, in the 80s and 90s. Strong chance we'll be back there in the next 2 years. http://www.economicshelp.org/uploaded_images/unemployment-71-05-736294.gif Add that to the existing 2.7Million people who are already on long term inacapcity beneft (many dumped there from the 80's and 90s) and we're looking at 6million people not working in 2 years time. Being paid for by a working population of 25 million people or so. So I think we know who'll be footing the bill for that. Having "saved" the banks, the next duty of the UK taxpayer by 2011 is to fork out for 6million people who can't or won't work for all kinds of reasons. I don't know what your studying for (and genuinely good luck to you whatever it is). But you could be entering the worst of it when you start looking. Enjoy the next 2 years anyway...being a student, one of the best times of anyones life ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scots civil war Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 you might be speaking a fraction too soOn chief this g20 summit at the excel centre in the docklands next week should have a return for chaos on the street who the **** organised this ???? reading a report yesterday saying the main man of the met is extremely worried re manning the gaff alongside two internationals and summat else big there on the streets,all at the same time its going to kick off there bigtime ANGER IS AN ENERGY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Twice unemployment was at the 3Million level under the Tories, in the 80s and 90s. Strong chance we'll be back there in the next 2 years.http://www.economicshelp.org/uploaded_images/unemployment-71-05-736294.gif Add that to the existing 2.7Million people who are already on long term inacapcity beneft (many dumped there from the 80's and 90s) and we're looking at 6million people not working in 2 years time. Being paid for by a working population of 25 million people or so. So I think we know who'll be footing the bill for that. Having "saved" the banks, the next duty of the UK taxpayer by 2011 is to fork out for 6million people who can't or won't work for all kinds of reasons. I don't know what your studying for (and genuinely good luck to you whatever it is). But you could be entering the worst of it when you start looking. Enjoy the next 2 years anyway...being a student, one of the best times of anyones life ! I for one think the money would be better spent on projects that get people into work rather than paying them not to be in a job. Projects could include public building works and community work. However for some people that sounds too much like Soviet style work camps. As to being a student, I've been back at college for 2 years and am going onto university for another 2, studying Computer Networking (though I may still change to a Computer Security and Forensics course that would mean an extra year to a year and a half). Not only am I working towards an honors degree, but at the same time I am doing the Microsoft and Cisco professional qualifications and I may even attempt some of the Comptia exams. Being a student in your 40s is strange though, especially when you are studying a subject that really didn't exist when you left school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I for one think the money would be better spent on projects that get people into work rather than paying them not to be in a job. Projects could include public building works and community work. However for some people that sounds too much like Soviet style work camps. As to being a student, I've been back at college for 2 years and am going onto university for another 2, studying Computer Networking (though I may still change to a Computer Security and Forensics course that would mean an extra year to a year and a half). Not only am I working towards an honors degree, but at the same time I am doing the Microsoft and Cisco professional qualifications and I may even attempt some of the Comptia exams. Being a student in your 40s is strange though, especially when you are studying a subject that really didn't exist when you left school. Well good luck with that. As a fellow 40-something I've just spent the last 3 years doing a distance learning postgrad (to get OUT of I.T.) and its paid off for me I think. I didn't have the nerve to go full time on it so commend your bottle... My wife will also graduate this year aged 40 after 4 full-time years at uni. I think its our duty to keep the younger less truly literate generation in their place. So if its between me and them for the dole queue, then I choose them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I for one think the money would be better spent on projects that get people into work rather than paying them not to be in a job. Projects could include public building works and community work. However for some people that sounds too much like Soviet style work camps. As to being a student, I've been back at college for 2 years and am going onto university for another 2, studying Computer Networking (though I may still change to a Computer Security and Forensics course that would mean an extra year to a year and a half). Not only am I working towards an honors degree, but at the same time I am doing the Microsoft and Cisco professional qualifications and I may even attempt some of the Comptia exams. Being a student in your 40s is strange though, especially when you are studying a subject that really didn't exist when you left school. Here's your problem with public works. Brown has already spent the money that's needed. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/article5947172.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2 The state of Britain's public finances is his biggest indictment of his time as Chancellor and PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Well good luck with that. As a fellow 40-something I've just spent the last 3 years doing a distance learning postgrad (to get OUT of I.T.) and its paid off for me I think. I didn't have the nerve to go full time on it so commend your bottle... My wife will also graduate this year aged 40 after 4 full-time years at uni. I think its our duty to keep the younger less truly literate generation in their place. So if its between me and them for the dole queue, then I choose them It really didn't take much nerve on my part. I have no financial commitments to speak of, in fact the opposite I have enough savings to pay for the fees myself, I am not married so I don't have any commitments there, and after working for 20 years in the catering industry as a waiter/chef/barmanager/bouncer I was going ever so slightly round the bend so needed a new challenge. I have enjoyed pointing out to the younglings that computers aren't just for kids and that having used bits of what has become the internet since the late '70s I might know a thing or two. You should see their faces when I talk about programming using machine code and assembly language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Here's your problem with public works. Brown has already spent the money that's needed. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/article5947172.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2 The state of Britain's public finances is his biggest indictment of his time as Chancellor and PM. Thats about the size of it. Its a big enough ask to fork out 3 million x ?60.50 per week, let alone back it up with anything of public works value. The cupboard is bare and the next and most imminent raid is again on the taxpayer. Well whoever is left thats working anyways. The shameless emotionally autistic twerp Brown should retire to his study with a glass of brandy and a loaded revolver and do the decent thing. He's obviously hoping that Fred the Shred does that before he has to, with a handy suicide note left taking the blame for "everything". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Why Are We Not Free to Chalk up a Protest? 'Rarely has there been a more pathetic arrest than that of 23-year-old university student Paul Saville, who was confronted by four members of Britain's new breed of petty minded police officers after writing in chalk on a pavement, "Liberty: the right to question. The right to ask: 'Are we free?'" With a wonderful lack of irony, the officers told him to stop writing. When he added one more letter they arrested him for criminal damage. The second year sociology and criminology student told the Daily Telegraph: "The whole reason I was writing in chalk was because I wanted to get my message across without causing lasting damage." I was merely highlighting the point that we are losing civil liberties in the UK," he added. "This is something we should be thinking about." A point, of course, confirmed by the absurd behaviour of the police who, encouraged by this appalling government, now regard disobedience as a criminal matter.':policeman: Read more... Looks like the freedom we have to protest is slowly getting buried under criminal law , the above incident is a fecking joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/henryporter/2009/mar/20/police-protest Here is the link to the full article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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