Well done Spurs.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Hate O'Neill.

[IronJambo]

hate spurs

[Craigieboy]

Hate St Mirren.

 

.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

hate spurs

 

More than O'Neill?

[Groot]

Hate Hibs

[shaun.lawson]

I like O'Neill. But I am deeply, deeply alarmed by the speed of Villa's collapse (who were those KBers tipping them to finish 2nd again?), and even more so by what it says about English football.

 

It now looks highly likely that the same four clubs will finish in the top four places for the fifth time in six seasons. Five times out of six. In what was once, increasingly long ago, the most competitive of Europe's major leagues, with the title and top 3 places shared out over many, many clubs, we now have a closed shop; or to put it more accurately, a cartel. To make matters worse, the same two clubs generally finish in the top two positions (and might well do so again), and the same two generally finish 3rd and 4th as well.

 

When is it ever going to change? For proud, famous clubs like Villa, Everton or Tottenham, is fifth the new first? Granted, Manchester City are coming up in the world, but any student of their fortunes knows they'll find a way to stuff it up - and even if they don't, what if they don't break through either? I think it's terrifying that Chelsea and especially Arsenal could've been so vulnerable this season, but are now ensconced yet again in 2nd and 4th. People rave about the Big Four, and their utter strangehold over the Champions League - but this level of predictability just cannot go on. England is the new Scotland. This evening, I find myself fearing for the future of the game.

[Therapist]

is fifth the new first

 

England is the new Scotland

 

Shaun, lay off those cliche pills. There's a good lad.

[Le Chat]

Manchester City are coming up in the world, but any student of their fortunes knows they'll find a way to stuff it up

 

 

[sked21]

I hate Redknapp. Absolute guiser.

 

But it serves Villa right. Play to get into Europe then play a weakened team to concentrate on the league and they blow it anyway. Don't know how many times that happens when resting players.

 

It also seems the Villa fans are getting awfully restless.

[Martin_T]

I like O'Neill. But I am deeply, deeply alarmed by the speed of Villa's collapse (who were those KBers tipping them to finish 2nd again?), and even more so by what it says about English football.

 

It now looks highly likely that the same four clubs will finish in the top four places for the fifth time in six seasons. Five times out of six. In what was once, increasingly long ago, the most competitive of Europe's major leagues, with the title and top 3 places shared out over many, many clubs, we now have a closed shop; or to put it more accurately, a cartel. To make matters worse, the same two clubs generally finish in the top two positions (and might well do so again), and the same two generally finish 3rd and 4th as well.

 

When is it ever going to change? For proud, famous clubs like Villa, Everton or Tottenham, is fifth the new first? Granted, Manchester City are coming up in the world, but any student of their fortunes knows they'll find a way to stuff it up - and even if they don't, what if they don't break through either? I think it's terrifying that Chelsea and especially Arsenal could've been so vulnerable this season, but are now ensconced yet again in 2nd and 4th. People rave about the Big Four, and their utter strangehold over the Champions League - but this level of predictability just cannot go on. England is the new Scotland. This evening, I find myself fearing for the future of the game.

 

Stranglehold on the Champions League? English teams have won that tournament 3 times in the past 25 years Shaun! They are currently having the same spell of success that La Liga clubs had in the early 2000's or Italian clubs in the 90's.

 

....and England has been the new 'Scotland' for the whole of the Premiership era, Blackburn was a one off, other than that the title has been passed between Arsenal, Manchester United and latterly Chelsea. But in all honesty Manchester United have been the one team that has consistently dominated that league for getting on 20 years.

[shaun.lawson]

Stranglehold on the Champions League? English teams have won that tournament 3 times in the past 25 years Shaun! They are currently having the same spell of success that La Liga clubs had in the early 2000's or Italian clubs in the 90's.

 

....and England has been the new 'Scotland' for the whole of the Premiership era, Blackburn was a one off, other than that the title has been passed between Arsenal, Manchester United and latterly Chelsea. But in all honesty Manchester United have been the one team that has consistently dominated that league for getting on 20 years.

 

It's never, ever been this bad Martin. Granted, the EPL title has only been passed between a few clubs; but Forest finished 3rd the year Blackburn won it, and Leeds and Newcastle broke into the elite subsequently. No other major league in Europe has a top 4 as relentlessly predictable as this: not even Italy, which at least has the excuse of possessing three clubs miles bigger than the rest.

 

As for the CL: I of course take your point about how few English clubs have actually won it - but how often has an English side been knocked out by a non-English side either last season or this? Answer: never at all. In Chelsea's case, you have to go back to March 2006 and a truly outstanding Barcelona side FFS! It's terrifying, mate.

[Cade]

Come on Arsenal!

[kingston]

I like O'Neill. But I am deeply, deeply alarmed by the speed of Villa's collapse (who were those KBers tipping them to finish 2nd again?), and even more so by what it says about English football.

 

It now looks highly likely that the same four clubs will finish in the top four places for the fifth time in six seasons. Five times out of six. In what was once, increasingly long ago, the most competitive of Europe's major leagues, with the title and top 3 places shared out over many, many clubs, we now have a closed shop; or to put it more accurately, a cartel. To make matters worse, the same two clubs generally finish in the top two positions (and might well do so again), and the same two generally finish 3rd and 4th as well.

 

When is it ever going to change? For proud, famous clubs like Villa, Everton or Tottenham, is fifth the new first? Granted, Manchester City are coming up in the world, but any student of their fortunes knows they'll find a way to stuff it up - and even if they don't, what if they don't break through either? I think it's terrifying that Chelsea and especially Arsenal could've been so vulnerable this season, but are now ensconced yet again in 2nd and 4th. People rave about the Big Four, and their utter strangehold over the Champions League - but this level of predictability just cannot go on. England is the new Scotland. This evening, I find myself fearing for the future of the game.

 

who gives a toss

[Martin_T]

It's never, ever been this bad Martin. Granted, the EPL title has only been passed between a few clubs; but Forest finished 3rd the year Blackburn won it, and Leeds and Newcastle broke into the elite subsequently. No other major league in Europe has a top 4 as relentlessly predictable as this: not even Italy, which at least has the excuse of possessing three clubs miles bigger than the rest.

 

As for the CL: I of course take your point about how few English clubs have actually won it - but how often has an English side been knocked out by a non-English side either last season or this? Answer: never at all. In Chelsea's case, you have to go back to March 2006 and a truly outstanding Barcelona side FFS! It's terrifying, mate.

 

That was all prior to the top 4 gaining Champions League entry. Over the same time period (since 1993) Motherwell and Hearts have both finished 2nd in the SPL, Celtic had a couple of mid table finishes. The era of absolute Old Firm domination in Scotland only really started when Fergus McCann saved Celtic and mobilised a large dormant fan base. Prior to his involvement a typical Celtic home attendance for a non Old firm match was circa 20 to 25,000.

 

Anyway, I still maintain that the EPL is a house of cards that may start to collapse in the near future. There are only so many rich benefactors out there to keep the wolves away from the door, as nearly all the top clubs in the Premiership have ridiculous levels of debt which has enabled them to get where they are.

 

In any event, I believe it is not the EPL in itself that is strong, it is merely the 4 clubs who have monopolised the Champions League cash. The UEFA cup performances of EPL clubs is underwhelming at best.

[shaun.lawson]

That was all prior to the top 4 gaining Champions League entry. Over the same time period (since 1993) Motherwell and Hearts have both finished 2nd in the SPL, Celtic had a couple of mid table finishes. The era of absolute Old Firm domination in Scotland only really started when Fergus McCann saved Celtic and mobilised a large dormant fan base. Prior to his involvement a typical Celtic home attendance for a non Old firm match was circa 20 to 25,000.

 

Anyway, I still maintain that the EPL is a house of cards that may start to collapse in the near future. There are only so many rich benefactors out there to keep the wolves away from the door, as nearly all the top clubs in the Premiership have ridiculous levels of debt which has enabled them to get where they are.

 

In any event, I believe it is not the EPL in itself that is strong, it is merely the 4 clubs who have monopolised the Champions League cash. The UEFA cup performances of EPL clubs is underwhelming at best.

 

I agree on all counts: especially on what the CL has done to all European leagues, and on the weakness of the EPL below the top four. There are now four European Super League clubs playing in England. They outgrew the domestic competition some years ago - and alarmingly, appear to be in the process of outgrowing all European competition with the sole exception of Barca too.

 

Bear in mind that Italian clubs have fiercely resisted foreign ownership, which is crippling their prospects. Chances of either Inter or much more so Milan seriously threatening to win the CL in the near future? Not great. If Milan don't make the top 3 this season, they've already said cutbacks will follow. There's a possibility Juventus may become dominant again in three to five years: they're doing a sound rebuilding job at present, but have a heck of a long way to go. Over in Spain, Real Madrid have been ruined by internal politics for far too long; and European football has found its new Leeds. They're called Valencia, who are a basket case and in deep, deep trouble.

 

In many ways, I hope the EPL does collapse in the way you've prophecised, and have already started to wonder about a resurgence of German clubs in Europe. But the financial difficulties affecting Milan and especially Valencia are a reminder that the credit crunch will hit others too - and even though the standard of the EPL has been well down on previous years, the gap between the Big Four and the rest in Europe is as big as ever.

[Martin_T]

I agree on all counts: especially on what the CL has done to all European leagues, and on the weakness of the EPL below the top four. There are now four European Super League clubs playing in England. They outgrew the domestic competition some years ago - and alarmingly, appear to be in the process of outgrowing all European competition with the sole exception of Barca too.

 

Bear in mind that Italian clubs have fiercely resisted foreign ownership, which is crippling their prospects. Chances of either Inter or much more so Milan seriously threatening to win the CL in the near future? Not great. If Milan don't make the top 3 this season, they've already said cutbacks will follow. There's a possibility Juventus may become dominant again in three to five years: they're doing a sound rebuilding job at present, but have a heck of a long way to go. Over in Spain, Real Madrid have been ruined by internal politics for far too long; and European football has found its new Leeds. They're called Valencia, who are a basket case and in deep, deep trouble.

 

In many ways, I hope the EPL does collapse in the way you've prophecised, and have already started to wonder about a resurgence of German clubs in Europe. But the financial difficulties affecting Milan and especially Valencia are a reminder that the credit crunch will hit others too - and even though the standard of the EPL has been well down on previous years, the gap between the Big Four and the rest in Europe is as big as ever.

 

Disagree on this point. Real Madrid are still easily the biggest club and world football and IIRC still have the biggest turnover in world football. Comparing the two starting line ups last Wednesday (against Liverpool) and I don't think there was much of a difference in either transfer fee or wages spend. Real have for some time however been poor in the Champions League, even during the period of La Liga domination from 2000 to 2007.

 

I think what we are seeing just now, in particular with Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal, is teams that have had managerial stability for some considerable time and whose managers have been and whose managers through that stability have been able to construct excellent teams. Chelsea are the only team who are there through sheer weight of resources. Such stability is particularly rare in both Italy and Spain and they are not as competitive as they were as a result. The only team in those countries that has maintained managerial stability (Milan with Ancelotti) have won the CL twice and been finalists once in the past 10 years.

 

All that said, I think there has to be moves made in football, on a pan-European level, to ensure that such inequality of resources is not allowed to become perpetual.

[IronJambo]

More than O'Neill?

 

definately!

 

i follow the irons down here mate, and purely because of location i've been to more west ham games this season than i have Hearts.

 

martin oneil is a fud, but he's someone elses fud now. we've got wgs to hate now

[kearney19]

Feels good as usual to be 4th.

 

Who said Villa would finish above Arsenal again?

 

Time to eat your words you Villa lovers and accept I was right with Villas fall.

 

They will be lucky to get 1 point out of 6 in their next 2 games.

 

Everton are going to catch Villa into 5th i think.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Feels good as usual to be 4th.

 

Who said Villa would finish above Arsenal again?

 

Time to eat your words you Villa lovers and accept I was right with Villas fall.

 

They will be lucky to get 1 point out of 6 in their next 2 games.

 

Everton are going to catch Villa into 5th i think.

 

You said Jacko isn't a nonce as well. You also said you were good at singing.

 

The seasons not finished by a long shot hen.

 

Feels good to be fourth??? Deary me.

 

You support about twelve teams anyway so does it really matter if one team aren't doing to well?

[kearney19]

You said Jacko isn't a nonce as well. You also said you were good at singing.

 

The seasons not finished by a long shot hen.

 

Feels good to be fourth??? Deary me.

 

You support about twelve teams anyway so does it really matter if one team aren't doing to well?

 

Your one of them who said Arsenal would get caught by Everton... so sticking by Arsenal prediction of 6th?

 

No it feels good to laugh at some of the doubters like you who instead of sticking to the subject you bring on personal abuse on me? Give it a rest!

 

I support 2 teams Hearts and Arsenal. get your facts right.

[shaun.lawson]

You said Jacko isn't a nonce as well. You also said you were good at singing.

 

The seasons not finished by a long shot hen.

 

He's in the process of being vindicated though, you have to admit that...

 

Incidentally, I no longer fear for the future of the game. It's obvious what's likely to happen:

 

1. Manchester United and Liverpool meet in the Champions League final in Rome, and riot. Dozens are injured, and a couple of English fans are stabbed by local thugs.

 

2. Seeing his chance, Michel Platini bans all English clubs from Europe indefinitely.

 

3. With them cleared out the road, the CL becomes competitive again, and Italian, Spanish and German clubs return to pre-eminence.

 

4. With English clubs no longer allowed into Europe, top players leave the EPL by the bucketload, and the loss of CL cash sends the Big Four into a tailspin.

 

5. Under new ownership, and with money having drained out of the English game closely followed by Rupert Murdoch losing interest, Norwich City seize the opportunity to become English Champions.

 

6. English clubs are allowed back into Europe in 2014 - but quickly find themselves miles behind, and take the best part of a decade to catch up.

 

7. With foreign players having exited the EPL, a new crop of young domestic talent emerges, and lead England to World Cup glory on home soil in 2018.

 

Fill yer boots boys. Free money.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Your one of them who said Arsenal would get caught by Everton... so sticking by Arsenal prediction of 6th?

 

No it feels good to laugh at some of the doubters like you who instead of sticking to the subject you bring on personal abuse on me? Give it a rest!

 

I support 2 teams Hearts and Arsenal. get your facts right.

 

No personal abuse doll. I used they examples to show you are often wrong.

 

I can't recall saying Everton would finish above Arsenal, I did say Villa would. Did the season finish at the weekend in England?

 

You beat a terrible Blackburn side and rode your luck against Roma. Arsenal are still mince.

[kearney19]

No personal abuse doll. I used they examples to show you are often wrong.

 

I can't recall saying Everton would finish above Arsenal, I did say Villa would. Did the season finish at the weekend in England?

 

You beat a terrible Blackburn side and rode your luck against Roma. Arsenal are still mince.

 

You said Everton would catch us.

 

And Ill use these examples that show your wrong, dont call me hen again, go back into your cave.

 

We beat Blackburn 4-0 who Utd struggled against, which puts us 4th.

Rode our luck V Roma? Game should have been over at the Emirates and if your going by that Chelsea should be out V Juve.

 

Arsenal must be mince, 4th place, in the quater final of the Championsleague and in the quaters of the FA Cup.

 

Yeah good case.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

You said Everton would catch us.

 

And Ill use these examples that show your wrong, dont call me hen again, go back into your cave.

 

We beat Blackburn 4-0 who Utd struggled against, which puts us 4th.

Rode our luck V Roma? Game should have been over at the Emirates and if your going by that Chelsea should be out V Juve.

 

Arsenal must be mince, 4th place, in the quater final of the Championsleague and in the quaters of the FA Cup.

 

Yeah good case.

 

OK hen.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

I like O'Neill. But I am deeply, deeply alarmed by the speed of Villa's collapse (who were those KBers tipping them to finish 2nd again?), and even more so by what it says about English football.

 

:

 

Some useless tit.

[Tynie b]

Arsehole FC are only ahead on Goal difference...Hopefully MO'N gets Villa back on track to go above Ershole Wenger and the Cheese eating Surrender Monkey's...

 

Arsenal, The 3rd most EVIL Club in Britain!!