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tolcross lad

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tolcross lad

I am very confused about what our support wants.I am in balance a Vlad sheep but with a lot of reservations.

I have been there when many of the momentous times have happened for our club since the 1950s both on the playing field and at AGMs of shareholders.

It seems that we have got to voice the issues time and time again .so I make no apology for doing so again.

1) There was an opportunity for the supporters to take control of the club 3 years ago.Why did this not happen?It was not a lot of money.It clearly raises issues about our commitment to HMFC?

2)Every position of contributors to KB (unless of low or no income) inevitably stems from the above point.The "Put up or shut up"point. I view each and every post with great scepticism as to peoples willingness to get us out of trouble It is clear that a ST alone wont do it

3) what are the alternatives to the romanov regime?

4) How do we best live and influence whats going on at Hearts?

 

 

To abuse a man who cannot strike back is cowardice!

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JamboAl
I am very confused about what our support wants.I am in balance a Vlad sheep but with a lot of reservations.

I have been there when many of the momentous times have happened for our club since the 1950s both on the playing field and at AGMs of shareholders.

It seems that we have got to voice the issues time and time again .so I make no apology for doing so again.

1) There was an opportunity for the supporters to take control of the club 3 years ago.Why did this not happen?It was not a lot of money.It clearly raises issues about our commitment to HMFC?

2)Every position of contributors to KB (unless of low or no income) inevitably stems from the above point.The "Put up or shut up"point. I view each and every post with great scepticism as to peoples willingness to get us out of trouble It is clear that a ST alone wont do it

3) what are the alternatives to the romanov regime?

4) How do we best live and influence whats going on at Hearts?

 

 

To abuse a man who cannot strike back is cowardice!

 

Surprised, or maybe I'm not, that you haven't had a reply before me.

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tolcross lad
Surprised, or maybe I'm not, that you haven't had a reply before me.

These are the issues that have got to be asked time and time again.Burley,Anderton,Pressley..Good Guys one and all reaping the financial heart out of the club..What were Pressley and Hartley earning per week before they left?

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tolcross lad
I am very confused about what our support wants.I am in balance a Vlad sheep but with a lot of reservations.

I have been there when many of the momentous times have happened for our club since the 1950s both on the playing field and at AGMs of shareholders.

It seems that we have got to voice the issues time and time again .so I make no apology for doing so again.

1) There was an opportunity for the supporters to take control of the club 3 years ago.Why did this not happen?It was not a lot of money.It clearly raises issues about our commitment to HMFC?

2)Every position of contributors to KB (unless of low or no income) inevitably stems from the above point.The "Put up or shut up"point. I view each and every post with great scepticism as to peoples willingness to get us out of trouble It is clear that a ST alone wont do it

3) what are the alternatives to the romanov regime?

4) How do we best live and influence whats going on at Hearts?

 

 

To abuse a man who cannot strike back is cowardice!

 

Sincerly

I would like an answer to my qustion

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Dirk Diggler

Point 1, The single most irritating thing in the world for me. The supporters had the chance to do something, What did they chose to do? Nothing. We were on the brink and had everyone just dug a little deeper.....Well who knows? It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and criticise a man from another country who, And lets not pi55 about here, Saved our club, It's quite another to put your hand in your pocket and donate ?500 you may not have at the time (I know I never but I found it).

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tolcross lad
Point 1, The single most irritating thing in the world for me. The supporters had the chance to do something, What did they chose to do? Nothing. We were on the brink and had everyone just dug a little deeper.....Well who knows? It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and criticise a man from another country who, And lets not pi55 about here, Saved our club, It's quite another to put your hand in your pocket and donate ?500 you may not have at the time (I know I never but I found it).

And thats where I come from mate .Each and every arguement .Its where I focus..I dont kid myself along.My older son (and maybe my younger son later} plays professional football .But the Hearts are our team.No messing.Too many conributors here are full of nonsense.

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tolcross lad
Point 1, The single most irritating thing in the world for me. The supporters had the chance to do something, What did they chose to do? Nothing. We were on the brink and had everyone just dug a little deeper.....Well who knows? It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and criticise a man from another country who, And lets not pi55 about here, Saved our club, It's quite another to put your hand in your pocket and donate ?500 you may not have at the time (I know I never but I found it).

Never a truer word spoken mate.I a am a guy who sits in the middle and I can be criticised for that.But our criticism of VR needs to be tempred by our own failngs.It aint pretty

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JamboAl
And thats where I come from mate .Each and every arguement .Its where I focus..I dont kid myself along.My older son (and maybe my younger son later} plays professional football .But the Hearts are our team.No messing.Too many conributors here are full of nonsense.

 

I could have contributed and chose not to. It's OK supporters wishing to take over a club but having the nous to do so is a different thing. The amount of money required per capita from all the support would not have been a kings ransom but many would not/could not have contributed, leaving an additional burden on those who would. Those who didn't would still think they have the right to shout their mouths off.

Apart from the existing debt we still (then) had to address a decaying stand and a ground which was not Euro compliant. We would have gone to the wall. VR came in and rescued us. He has made many mistakes (IMO) and done things differently from how most would have liked, but we are still here and as long as we are breathing we have hope. Things are far from perfect but we owe the man a debt of gratitude. People come on here asking where transfer fees go, implying it goes into VR's pocket. Well if it does, fair do's - he takes the risk why not the benefits.

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tolcross lad
I could have contributed and chose not to. It's OK supporters wishing to take over a club but having the nous to do so is a different thing. The amount of money required per capita from all the support would not have been a kings ransom but many would not/could not have contributed, leaving an additional burden on those who would. Those who didn't would still think they have the right to shout their mouths off.

Apart from the existing debt we still (then) had to address a decaying stand and a ground which was not Euro compliant. We would have gone to the wall. VR came in and rescued us. He has made many mistakes (IMO) and done things differently from how most would have liked, but we are still here and as long as we are breathing we have hope. Things are far from perfect but we owe the man a debt of gratitude. People come on here asking where transfer fees go, implying it goes into VR's pocket. Well if it does, fair do's - he takes the risk why not the benefits.

 

I know that I am being manipulated in this post.There is is free thought but I can work out what it is all about with a great degree of risk.

I prefer romanov to any altternative.Is that good enough for you!

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Guest casper
I am very confused about what our support wants.I am in balance a Vlad sheep but with a lot of reservations.

I have been there when many of the momentous times have happened for our club since the 1950s both on the playing field and at AGMs of shareholders.

It seems that we have got to voice the issues time and time again .so I make no apology for doing so again.

1) There was an opportunity for the supporters to take control of the club 3 years ago.Why did this not happen?It was not a lot of money.It clearly raises issues about our commitment to HMFC?

 

Yes it was. Not only money to buy the club but money to run it and money to service the then ?20M debt.

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JamboAl
I know that I am being manipulated in this post.There is is free thought but I can work out what it is all about with a great degree of risk.

I prefer romanov to any altternative.Is that good enough for you!

 

No, not to ANY alternative but yes as he was the ONLY alternative.

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IMA MAROON

Romanov saved the club when he bought it. He continues to save it everyday he is here and by building a new stand he alone will secure the long time future of the club, that the club lives on in Gorgie, Tynecastle Park. :cool:

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Spellczech
I am very confused about what our support wants.I am in balance a Vlad sheep but with a lot of reservations.

I have been there when many of the momentous times have happened for our club since the 1950s both on the playing field and at AGMs of shareholders.

It seems that we have got to voice the issues time and time again .so I make no apology for doing so again.

1) There was an opportunity for the supporters to take control of the club 3 years ago.Why did this not happen?It was not a lot of money.It clearly raises issues about our commitment to HMFC?

2)Every position of contributors to KB (unless of low or no income) inevitably stems from the above point.The "Put up or shut up"point. I view each and every post with great scepticism as to peoples willingness to get us out of trouble It is clear that a ST alone wont do it

3) what are the alternatives to the romanov regime?

4) How do we best live and influence whats going on at Hearts?

 

 

To abuse a man who cannot strike back is cowardice!

 

Strange thing supporting a team...

 

Many people think that buying a ticket to a game buys them the right to shout obscene abuse at players, officials and managers. They also think this measly few quid pays all the players wages and so they own the players and can shout that the likes of Pinilla should be punted Ask them to dig a little deeper and they?ll make excuses as they cannot see themselves getting anything in return for that money...you see they already are owners in a sense.

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Dirk Diggler
Yes it was. Not only money to buy the club but money to run it and money to service the then ?20M debt.

 

 

 

''On Thursday 4th March 2004, the Federation of Hearts Supporters Clubs and the Heart of Midlothian Supporters Trust launched 'Save Our Hearts', a campaign to raise funds to purchase shares in Heart of Midlothian Football Club so that Hearts fans could play a major part in securing the future of the Club. They needed to raise an estimated 2 million pounds to do this''.

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Dazo
No, not to ANY alternative but yes as he was the ONLY alternative.

 

Simple sentence that sums the whole saga up IMO.

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Guest casper
''On Thursday 4th March 2004, the Federation of Hearts Supporters Clubs and the Heart of Midlothian Supporters Trust launched 'Save Our Hearts', a campaign to raise funds to purchase shares in Heart of Midlothian Football Club so that Hearts fans could play a major part in securing the future of the Club. They needed to raise an estimated 2 million pounds to do this''.

 

And what would have happened if they had managered to raise the not inconsiderable sum of ?2M. HBoS were still ready to call in the debt. The staium would still have to be sold. IMO the fund raising was a ploy to put pressure on robinson and buy a bit time to find a new owner. They were just unfortunate with the one that came along.

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Dazo
And what would have happened if they had managered to raise the not inconsiderable sum of ?2M. HBoS were still ready to call in the debt. The staium would still have to be sold. IMO the fund raising was a ploy to put pressure on robinson and buy a bit time to find a new owner.

 

I agree Casper, If SOH campaign had been successful the club would have bee shut down by now. I am not knocking the campaign or the people involved before anyone starts. ;)

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Dirk Diggler
And what would have happened if they had managered to raise the not inconsiderable sum of ?2M. HBoS were still ready to call in the debt. The staium would still have to be sold. IMO the fund raising was a ploy to put pressure on robinson and buy a bit time to find a new owner. They were just unfortunate with the one that came along.

 

My point was the federation and the supporters trust felt that raising 2 million would have played 'a major part in securing the clubs future'.

 

We couldn't.

 

Of course we still would have had a long way to go, But raising that initial sum would have given us hope.

 

As has been stated above Romanov was the only option and as pi55ed off as i get at times, the truth is he owes us nothing.

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Guest JamboRobbo
I could have contributed and chose not to.

 

Shock horror. The boy who's always on here slagging folks like myself off, and questioning MY support of HMFC, didnae even bother to contribute to SOH. All talk and no action eh.

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Guest casper
My point was the federation and the supporters trust felt that raising 2 million would have played 'a major part in securing the clubs future'.

 

We couldn't.

 

Of course we still would have had a long way to go, But raising that initial sum would have given us hope.

 

As has been stated above Romanov was the only option and as pi55ed off as i get at times, the truth is he owes us nothing.

 

Unfortnately I don't think it would have secured the future, or at least changed what robinson was planning.

 

Looking back on it and knowing what I know now I wish I had backed robinson because I reckon his plan would have been better than what we've got right now. I might not have liked it but I would have continued to support Hearts at murrayfield.

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Dirk Diggler

 

Looking back on it and knowing what I know now I wish I had backed robinson because I reckon his plan would have been better than what we've got right now. I might not have liked it but I would have continued to support Hearts at murrayfield.

 

Knowing what I know now, I still would never have backed Robinson.

 

It is solely his fault we found/find ourselves in this position.

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Lord BJ
I am very confused about what our support wants.I am in balance a Vlad sheep but with a lot of reservations.

I have been there when many of the momentous times have happened for our club since the 1950s both on the playing field and at AGMs of shareholders.

It seems that we have got to voice the issues time and time again .so I make no apology for doing so again.

1) There was an opportunity for the supporters to take control of the club 3 years ago.Why did this not happen?It was not a lot of money.It clearly raises issues about our commitment to HMFC?

2)Every position of contributors to KB (unless of low or no income) inevitably stems from the above point.The "Put up or shut up"point. I view each and every post with great scepticism as to peoples willingness to get us out of trouble It is clear that a ST alone wont do it

3) what are the alternatives to the romanov regime?

4) How do we best live and influence whats going on at Hearts?

 

 

To abuse a man who cannot strike back is cowardice!

 

1. As othere have pointed out the fans taking over the clib was not a realistic possibility. The issue was the level of debt and the bank, deciding enough was enough.

 

To prevent that from happening, it would have needed a severe injection of cash or at least some guarantee. Something that a collective of fans could not give.

 

2. To be honest, I'm not quite sure what your saying in point 2. Is it basically because we did not stump up the cash we have no right to criticise. Bearing in mind some people did stump at a fair bit of cash, are they allowed to criticise.

 

As I say, the fans buying the club was not a realistic option. I think most people knew that and that created a degree of apathy.

 

We were all hoping for a rich sugar daddy. Which we eventually found.

 

3. At the moment their are no alternative to the Romanov regime. Though a large amount of that is to do with the fact that he has racked the debt to levels that make CPR reign look like a minor overspend.

 

4. I don't know but IMO not making our feeling clear to Vlad on what is, lets be honest mismanagement of club on the footballing side is not the way forward.

 

Vlad whether your behind him or not. I think we all agree he has and is continuing to make some fundemental errors as our owner.

 

I suppose if the CPR era taught us anything. Maybe its that we should not sit on our hands and do nothing. Maybe we should try and force change, in the way the club is being run.

 

With regard the last comment, Vlad can strike back and prove all the doubters wrong etc. Yet he does not.

 

Vlad saving us does not give him carte blanche to then go on and ruin us.

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Therapist
Romanov saved the club when he bought it. He continues to save it everyday he is here and by building a new stand he alone will secure the long time future of the club, that the club lives on in Gorgie, Tynecastle Park. :cool:

 

Post of the Day. ;)

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Gambo
Romanov saved the club when he bought it. He continues to save it everyday he is here and by building a new stand he alone will secure the long time future of the club, that the club lives on in Gorgie, Tynecastle Park. :cool:

 

 

Correct imo, unlike previous owners who just wanted to please the fans and as a consequence nearly took us to oblivion. Funny how some on here seem to think and expect that with all the mismanagement we previously had at the club, that everything would suddenly be rosy overnight when a new owner came along. Do they not think that some hard work would need to be done (and with that hard work will come some mistakes, that is life) along the way to safeguard the future of the club, not just for our generation but for others as well, frustrating as that may be to us fans.

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Lord BJ
Correct imo, unlike previous owners who just wanted to please the fans and as a consequence nearly took us to oblivion. Funny how some on here seem to think and expect that with all the mismanagement we previously had at the club, that everything would suddenly be rosy overnight when a new owner came along. Do they not think that some hard work would need to be done (and with that hard work will come some mistakes, that is life) along the way to safeguard the future of the club, not just for our generation but for others as well, frustrating as that may be to us fans.

 

I don't think anyone though anything other than hardwork would be required. However, the previous mismanagement at the club has little or nothing to do with the mismanagement that Vlad has embarked on.

 

Such as not appointing a manager, interefering in team selection etc.

 

Also he is the only person who sanctioned the award of contracts we can ill afford.

 

That is his choice alone. The sheer incompetance of those before him, does not act as a free all for his own brand of mismanagement.

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Dazo
Correct imo, unlike previous owners who just wanted to please the fans and as a consequence nearly took us to oblivion. Funny how some on here seem to think and expect that with all the mismanagement we previously had at the club, that everything would suddenly be rosy overnight when a new owner came along. Do they not think that some hard work would need to be done (and with that hard work will come some mistakes, that is life) along the way to safeguard the future of the club, not just for our generation but for others as well, frustrating as that may be to us fans.

 

Who thinks or thought that everything would be rosy overnight ? Also who filled our head with nonsense about what we are going to do ON the pitch ?

 

You are correct it will take hard work and there will be mistakes. We have had the mistakes so is it safe to assume the hard work will start soon ?

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davemclaren
Unfortnately I don't think it would have secured the future, or at least changed what robinson was planning.

 

Looking back on it and knowing what I know now I wish I had backed robinson because I reckon his plan would have been better than what we've got right now. I might not have liked it but I would have continued to support Hearts at murrayfield.

 

If we had moved to Murrayfield we may well be scraping the bottom of the league anyway, or worse, as many said they would not support the club there and, if they had stuck by their words, revenues would have gone down. I don't like where we are at, but we seem to have swapped incompetence on the financial/business side for incompetence on the playing side.

 

Suffering is what makes a Hearts supporter. :whistling:

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Pants Shaton

UK average salary: ?16,656 (after tax)

 

 

Hearts season ticket: ?450

 

Hearts strip (x2): ?90

 

Food at matches: ?50

 

10 Away tickets: ?250

 

Travel expenses: ?100

 

Other Hearts merchandise: ?50

 

(European game: ?300)

 

TOTAL ?990 (?1290)

 

Spending on Hearts as a percentage of net salary: 6% (8% including Euro game)

 

How much money will Vladimir Romanov lose through his involvement with Hearts?

 

If his development plans are realised then I suggest the answer is nothing. As a successful business man he is likely (or at least expects) to make money from this venture.

 

In today's money, a Hearts fan is likely to spend over ?50,000 in a lifetime of supporting the club.

 

To suggest people should have compromised the security of their family, in a speculative venture to save Hearts, is not only unrealistic but a slight on the massive contribution fans already make to the club.

 

Romanov, without question, saved Hearts but at the cost of the disillusionment of many loyal fans who have now lost the joy of attending Tynecastle. Current crowds (a reflection of season tickets sold on a false prospectus) disguise the unprecedented apathy of supporters.

 

He easily has it in his power to turn things around by appointing an autonomous manager and restoring a spine to our team.

 

For me Romanov will never be as important to Heart of Midlothian as the guys who genuinely make sacrifices to follow our club.

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Gambo
I don't think anyone though anything other than hardwork would be required. However, the previous mismanagement at the club has little or nothing to do with the mismanagement that Vlad has embarked on.

 

Such as not appointing a manager, interefering in team selection etc.

 

Also he is the only person who sanctioned the award of contracts we can ill afford.

 

That is his choice alone. The sheer incompetance of those before him, does not act as a free all for his own brand of mismanagement.

 

Hence why i said mistakes will(have) been made along the way.

 

Re the contracts awards, i think it has been documented somewhere before that the Romanovs were not fully aware of how big a financial mess we were in when they took over, a lot of those big contracts were sanctioned in their first few months of ownership, before the full scale of our debts and infrastructure(corporate facilities etc etc) came to light.

 

Since then you could say a lot of cut backs have been made and most of them have been to the detriment of the team at this time. He came in all guns blazing, bought big(ish) etc and we seen what we could have achieved, then with our poor infrastructure/debts he seen we could not substain that investment at that time (i would have preferred him to use his many millions to see us through that period until things were right, but it is his millions and not mines).

 

We were tantallised and then had it taken away from us (still added a trophy which was very nice) which is not nice, but imo in the bigger picture of things we will get back to that stage again and when we do the club will be all the stronger on and off the pitch for it.

 

Only my opinion.

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Spellczech
Who thinks or thought that everything would be rosy overnight ? Also who filled our head with nonsense about what we are going to do ON the pitch ?

 

You are correct it will take hard work and there will be mistakes. We have had the mistakes so is it safe to assume the hard work will start soon ?

 

Seriously, how much mileage are you wanting to get out of some statements from Vlad made over 2 years ago?

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Dazo
Seriously, how much mileage are you wanting to get out of some statements from Vlad made over 2 years ago?

 

None at all, not aware i asked for any mileage. In the context of he onversation Gambo said some people were expecting everything to be rosy overnight. As you say VR has been here a long time so nothing was fixed overnight. How much mileage should VR get ?

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leginten
Seriously, how much mileage are you wanting to get out of some statements from Vlad made over 2 years ago?

 

I don't see the logic in your question.Is there some kind of statute of limitations on statements made by Romanov (or anyone else)?

So if the fabled new stand hasn't appeared three years down the line, you'll be on JKB reproaching people with casting it up? And if we still haven't got a manager come the summer, you'll be saying we shouldn't be paying much attention to a statement issued away back at the beginning of January?

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Spellczech
None at all, not aware i asked for any mileage. In the context of he onversation Gambo said some people were expecting everything to be rosy overnight. As you say VR has been here a long time so nothing was fixed overnight. How much mileage should VR get ?

 

I?d say the 2nd trophy in 50 years earns him a fair bit of time TBH...and that?s the truth of it. Yes Vlad made some wild statements/boasts but we cannot keep beating him with that same stick.

 

We all know that we went backwards after the SC win (just as we did in 1998). Sad truth is this always happens to non-OF teams...Over the last 2 seasons the OF have dropped more points to other clubs than their fans accept so they do their usual and raid the other clubs for their best players thus lowering the standard again. They took Hartley and acquired Pressley and Webster. We need to rebuild and god knows we?ve made a right pig?s ear of it so far, but by all accounts there are lots of good things happening elsewhere at the club.

 

I?m not going to set deadlines for Vlad because I?ve only seen Hearts win 2 SCs in my lifetime. Therefore I cannot allow myself to demand that Hearts win all the time. League success remains a dream but I do know that Vlad is the only Hearts owner I?ve seen who genuinely has the cash to have a crack at making Hearts genuinely successful rather than just a flicker of success every 10 years...

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Spellczech
I don't see the logic in your question.Is there some kind of statute of limitations on statements made by Romanov (or anyone else)?

So if the fabled new stand hasn't appeared three years down the line, you'll be on JKB reproaching people with casting it up? And if we still haven't got a manager come the summer, you'll be saying we shouldn't be paying much attention to a statement issued away back at the beginning of January?

 

Sure you can moan all you like if these things happen, or more accurately fail to happen, but trotting out the same old quotes from history and applying them to every debate now and in the future is pointless. Situations change and beating Vlad with the same stick of claiming he promised us this or that is senseless. I have little doubt that Vlad underestimated how difficult the challenge of breaking the OF duopoly would be. Only relevant fact is that he is still here and still trying to do it. There is no alternative and until one arises what?s the point in constantly moaning about the only benefactor we have?

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Guest casper
We all know that we went backwards after the SC win (just as we did in 1998). Sad truth is this always happens to non-OF ...

 

We were on the way backwards months before we won the cup and have not stopped moving backwards since.

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leginten
Sure you can moan all you like if these things happen, or more accurately fail to happen, but trotting out the same old quotes from history and applying them to every debate now and in the future is pointless. Situations change and beating Vlad with the same stick of claiming he promised us this or that is senseless. I have little doubt that Vlad underestimated how difficult the challenge of breaking the OF duopoly would be. Only relevant fact is that he is still here and still trying to do it. There is no alternative and until one arises what?s the point in constantly moaning about the only benefactor we have?

 

People will stop moaning about our "benefactor" when he starts doing fairly basic things right. Nobody's asking for overnight success. Nobody's asking for the moon. Nobody ever has been. There was only one person who ever got carried away.

You can judge people by their actions or their words. Unfortunately for Romanov, neither are comprehensible.

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Dazo
I?d say the 2nd trophy in 50 years earns him a fair bit of time TBH...and that?s the truth of it. Yes Vlad made some wild statements/boasts but we cannot keep beating him with that same stick.

 

I really wasn't beating him with that stick though. VR started with all guns blazing and we all thought he was a god. Gambo suggested some people expected things to be sorted overnight. I was only trying to say that the start VR made and comments he came out with maybe made some people believe we had found a overnight solution.

 

 

We all know that we went backwards after the SC win (just as we did in 1998). Sad truth is this always happens to non-OF teams...Over the last 2 seasons the OF have dropped more points to other clubs than their fans accept so they do their usual and raid the other clubs for their best players thus lowering the standard again. They took Hartley and acquired Pressley and Webster. We need to rebuild and god knows we?ve made a right pig?s ear of it so far, but by all accounts there are lots of good things happening elsewhere at the club.

 

I?m not going to set deadlines for Vlad because I?ve only seen Hearts win 2 SCs in my lifetime. Therefore I cannot allow myself to demand that Hearts win all the time. League success remains a dream but I do know that Vlad is the only Hearts owner I?ve seen who genuinely has the cash to have a crack at making Hearts genuinely successful rather than just a flicker of success every 10 years...

 

Can't argue with any of that and i certainly do not demand we win every week. One demand i do make though is that we employ a manager who gets to pick his own team and gets to decide what players he does and does not want. I don't think that is a unreasonable demand.

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