Sectarianism Dissertation

[DB-14]

Not sure if ths belongs in here or in the Shed but anyway. I am conducting research on whether more needs to be done to tackle sectarianism in Scotland and have questions which I have asked of Nil By Mouth, The Church of Scotland, The SFA, etc.

 

I am now required to carry out a study on the general fanbase of Scottish clubs so I will carry these questions out on Hibs, Celtic and Rangers forums.

 

1. ?Do you believe sectarianism is still a major problem in this country??

2. "What else should be done to tackle sectarianism in this country?"

3. "Where does the main problem of sectarianism eminate from in Scotland?"

4. "Can you provide any examples of sectarianism in this country? (e.g. websites, publications)

 

Thanks.

[dodger_84]

I did my dissertation on the same subject 3 years ago. What method of research are you considering? I'd go for a qaulitative approach. Interviews etc seem to work well.

 

I can try and give you some good literature to read if it will help mate?

[mundojambo]

sounds interesting, it's a facinating subject. what do you want me to do?

[mickmaroon]

You might want to ask why so much discussion of sectarianism focuses on football and pretty much only on football.

 

I mean it's not as if Paisley and Adams have spent the last thirty years in NI bickering over whether refs favour Linfield or Cliftonville - over there sectarianism is very real and about the bread and butter of life - housing, jobs, community services, politics, war.

 

Good book on the issue in Scotland is:

 

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-SUTEJTSVGAC&pg=PP1&dq=sectarianism+in+scotland&ei=FMGKSaHzFIPcygT-3tm6BQ

[dodger_84]

Thing is though that in Scotland Football acts as medium to display and act out sectarian behaviour. You have to understand the subject in the historical context of Scotland.

 

Sectarianism does not rear its head as much in other areas of life. atleast not as much as it used too.

[4marsbars]

Thing is though that in Scotland Football acts as medium to display and act out sectarian behaviour. You have to understand the subject in the historical context of Scotland.

 

Sectarianism does not rear its head as much in other areas of life. atleast not as much as it used too.

 

Or you could say that Sectarianism is a medium through which football-related misbehaviour is acted out.

 

I doubt very much that our UJ brigade have much of a grasp of what the Reformation was about, or how christian denominations differ. They are simply young men, up for a fight, and will use any convenient iconography etc. as tools in that fight.

 

If they were serious about being protestants they would obey the number one commandment, which is to "love their enemies". Clearly they don't love their enemies, so they cannot be considered to be protestants.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Or you could say that Sectarianism is a medium through which football-related misbehaviour is acted out.

 

I doubt very much that our UJ brigade have much of a grasp of what the Reformation was about, or how christian denominations differ. They are simply young men, up for a fight, and will use any convenient iconography etc. as tools in that fight.

 

If they were serious about being protestants they would obey the number one commandment, which is to "love their enemies". Clearly they don't love their enemies, so they cannot be considered to be protestants.

 

I see where ur coming from there but i feel sectarianism is used as a catch all for any "bad" behaviour at football, any naughty songs are sectarian when in truth they are not but it fits the current agenda to lump everything together. Not only would better education stop youngsters following into the acts of their elders it would serve to educate all when something is and when it is not sectarian.

[4marsbars]

I see where ur coming from there but i feel sectarianism is used as a catch all for any "bad" behaviour at football, any naughty songs are sectarian when in truth they are not but it fits the current agenda to lump everything together. Not only would better education stop youngsters following into the acts of their elders it would serve to educate all when something is and when it is not sectarian.

 

Again, it's a chicken and egg thing. It so happens that the majority of the badly-behaved amongst our support include sectarian singing in their repertoire.

 

Bad behaviour amongst Hearts fans tends to have a sectarian flavour. By contrast, badly behaved Dons fans don't display this.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Again, it's a chicken and egg thing. It so happens that the majority of the badly-behaved amongst our support include sectarian singing in their repertoire.

 

Bad behaviour amongst Hearts fans tends to have a sectarian flavour. By contrast, badly behaved Dons fans don't display this.

 

Apart from Hullo, and the fenian line what other songs are sung that can be classed as sectarian? 1 word in 1 song is all thats bad as far as i see.

 

The union flag is not sectatian but people claim anyone with it is a bigot. Im proud to support the union and the flag, ive got friends overseas fighting under that flag and am amazed by the ignorance of some on here. (not you!)

[Jambo83]

The union flag is not sectatian but people claim anyone with it is a bigot. Im proud to support the union and the flag, ive got friends overseas fighting under that flag and am amazed by the ignorance of some on here. (not you!)

 

That's fine mate, and I have the utmost respect for the men & woman of the armed forces, but I will still never understand why people take their flags to the football...

 

Hearts have nothing to do with the military, they play in the Scottish Premier League. The only time I think it would be relevant to bring the union flag would be to games around the time of the remembrance service.

 

I don't want to start a big debate on it, just giving my honest reply to your honest post.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

That's fine mate, and I have the utmost respect for the men & woman of the armed forces, but I will still never understand why people take their flags to the football...

 

Hearts have nothing to do with the military, they play in the Scottish Premier League. The only time I think it would be relevant to bring the union flag would be to games around the time of the remembrance service.

 

I don't want to start a big debate on it, just giving my honest reply to your honest post.

 

Not a problem mate, not at all. But yes, leave all national flags at home and problem solved.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Not a problem mate, not at all. But yes, leave all national flags at home and problem solved.

 

Why is it ok to leave the flags, but not the songs?

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Why is it ok to leave the flags, but not the songs?

 

Because his post i was replying to was about flags, now run along and find a sectarian conspiracy somewhere else.

[4marsbars]

Sorry, in an earlier post I used the term UJ, thereby triggering a flag debate.

 

The OP raised a serious issue connected with his (her?) studies. If we keep on the subject of flags the mods will close this down and the OP will lose the debate they hoped for, so can we move the subject away from flags?

 

My point about sectarianism is that a significant minority of Hearts fans, mainly young and naive, adopt the iconography and adapt the songbook of Glasgow Rangers' more sectarian tendencies. I view that as sectarianism or possibly sectarianism-lite. Whatever it is, Hearts would be better off without any of it.

 

I am sure that S.U.S.S. disagrees with me, so I will pull out of this debate now by agreeing to differ and not spoil the original poster's intentions.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Sorry, in an earlier post I used the term UJ, thereby triggering a flag debate.

 

The OP raised a serious issue connected with his (her?) studies. If we keep on the subject of flags the mods will close this down and the OP will lose the debate they hoped for, so can we move the subject away from flags?

 

My point about sectarianism is that a significant minority of Hearts fans, mainly young and naive, adopt the iconography and adapt the songbook of Glasgow Rangers' more sectarian tendencies. I view that as sectarianism or possibly sectarianism-lite. Whatever it is, Hearts would be better off without any of it.

 

I am sure that S.U.S.S. disagrees with me, so I will pull out of this debate now by agreeing to differ and not spoil the original poster's intentions.

 

 

Why would i disagree with you?

 

I asked what sectarian songs apart from the fenian version of hullo hullo are sung? And im sure the OP was asking for opinions and therefore a debate so how would people debating his issues spoil it or is that simply a LOOK AT ME post.

[4marsbars]

Why would i disagree with you?

 

 

Based on previous discussions we've had.

 

I asked what sectarian songs apart from the fenian version of hullo hullo are sung? And im sure the OP was asking for opinions and therefore a debate so how would people debating his issues spoil it or is that simply a LOOK AT ME post.

 

My point was that by turning this into a discussion about flags we'd risk having the thread pulled.

 

Every post is a Look at Me post.

 

On specific songs, you are right, but I've heard reports of more than Hullo Hullo being sung at away games (which I have not witnessed).

 

Anyway, Hullo Hullo is bad enough.

 

Other examples would be *** (you see, I am not even allowed to mention that one but it is sung, especially at Parkhead), or the recently displayed clip of a few Hearts fans singing some Bobby Sands song.

 

Booing the Pope?

 

And the flag stuff that we cannot mention.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that a small element in our support wrongly believe Hearts to be a protestant team. And it's a strange kind of protestantism at that.

[dodger_84]

That small band of people could be described as 90 minute bigots?

 

Among other descriptions

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Based on previous discussions we've had.

 

 

 

My point was that by turning this into a discussion about flags we'd risk having the thread pulled.

 

Every post is a Look at Me post.

 

On specific songs, you are right, but I've heard reports of more than Hullo Hullo being sung at away games (which I have not witnessed).

 

Anyway, Hullo Hullo is bad enough.

 

Other examples would be *** (you see, I am not even allowed to mention that one but it is sung, especially at Parkhead), or the recently displayed clip of a few Hearts fans singing some Bobby Sands song.

 

Booing the Pope?

 

And the flag stuff that we cannot mention.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that a small element in our support wrongly believe Hearts to be a protestant team. And it's a strange kind of protestantism at that.

 

Don?t recall our other discussions sorry.

 

But?

 

Its not a flag debate, simply mentioning a flag is not a flag debate.

 

The mods and most posters know that a brief discussion, which was over, does not constitute a flag debate. Those of us that witnessed the original flag debates must know the difference.

 

Nothing wrong with alternate versions of Hullo

 

***, not sectarian, Bobby Sands don?t know the words, Booing the pope, or as I saw it people booing the false grief and plastic irishness of the pretend paddys x days after the burial of the pope, not sectarian.

 

Don?t see what your getting at re protestants sorry.

[djf]

Celtic - Rangers

Ireland - Britain

Catholic - Protestant

 

It's just another example of tribalism and a yearning for being part of a collective which has always existed in humans. I would really question the depth of feeling of the vast majority of people involved in these things.

[stew mc]

Celtic - Rangers

Ireland - Britain

Catholic - Protestant

 

It's just another example of tribalism and a yearning for being part of a collective which has always existed in humans. I would really question the depth of feeling of the vast majority of people involved in these things.

 

]Celtic - Rangers

Ireland - Britain

Catholic - Protestant

D1ckHeads-D1ckHeads

[Sherlock]

...If they were serious about being protestants they would obey the number one commandment, which is to "love their enemies". Clearly they don't love their enemies, so they cannot be considered to be protestants.

 

If they were serious about being Protestants they would go to church.

 

I don't know if the schemie, attention-seeking element of our support go to church or not. But from seeing them at away games, i'd very much doubt it.

[H2]

My simple take on it is that the problem will exist as long as Scotland has a sectarian schooling policy, which in my opinion is illegal. They called it something else in South Africa I think.

[interista]

My simple take on it is that the problem will exist as long as Scotland has a sectarian schooling policy, which in my opinion is illegal. They called it something else in South Africa I think.

 

This is the key point in the issue. Close "faith" schools and start off on the road to improvement.

 

People might find other reasons for disliking or mistrusting one another but it won't be founded upon some daft religious brand applied from age 5.