New Stand

[TommyC]

I know plans are in place for it and all but does anyone think this will go through? Estimated finish by 2011 but I don't see it happening at all. It would cost a fortune and Romanov seems to be tightening up all the accounts, surely we can't afford a huge stand/gym/sportsbar/spaceship he's thinking of building .

 

Opinions?

[Feeno]

none really

[cosanostra]

Not really bothered either way.

[Only a Game]

Surely only a matter of time before Romanov has a feasibility report done and realises that selling the ground Tynecastle sits on (once it reaches decent value again) and building a new stadium somewhere in the suburbs is actually a far more sensible, do-able, and cost effective option.

 

Either that or he'll sell the club before he has to think about it too hard.

 

Either way, we will NEVER see the project that is currently at the planners being started, never mind finished. (IMO)

[Only a Game]

I would settle for a 10,000 seater stand without theextras which could be added in years to come.This IMHO would make financial sense. Rome wasn't built in a day, but Romanov has to be sincere with his plans, not giving us false promises and treating us like school children like he has done in the past. :108years:

 

He'd actually get a bit more respect if he came out and said that the plans have to be scaled down or even suspended for a while.

 

Instead he's still coming out with nonsense that everyone but the most naive knows is not going to happen because its not affordable to us.

 

The worrying thing is that its only a matter of time before the Old stand fails its safety certificate.

[The Don]

Surely only a matter of time before Romanov has a feasibility report done and realises that selling the ground Tynecastle sits on (once it reaches decent value again) and building a new stadium somewhere in the suburbs is actually a far more sensible, do-able, and cost effective option.

 

Either that or he'll sell the club before he has to think about it too hard.

 

Either way, we will NEVER see the project that is currently at the planners being started, never mind finished. (IMO)

 

To be honest when the plan was mooted years ago about the possibility of a brand new stadium at Sighthill in a joint venture with the council i was not totally against this idea, certainly not in the same way as i was about moving to Murrayfield.

 

I remember an Interview with Romanov not long after he came to hearts stating his ideal would be to have a multi purpose stadium shared by both Edinburgh clubs, a stadium fit for a capital of a country he described it. He wanted something like a 60,000 seat stadium which could be extended if need be (Probably something like Stade De France where seating can be hidden and pulled out when needed)

 

Now while many people will say WTF to this idea and totally dissmiss it, there would have been many many advantages to having this kind of partnership between Hearts, Hibs and Edinburgh Council.

 

Firstly the cost would be split 3 ways, funding could have been met by the sale of Tynecastle and Easter Road along with other funding from the clubs, Edinburgh council have for long enough said they need a new stadium to replace meadowbank, so a very large part of funding would be made by the council, and also Sports grants and possible lottery grants.

 

Secondly moving on to the cost efficiency, both Hearts and Hibs would be sharing so each item is split down the middle, operating costs etc. The amount of addition revenue that could be made for both teams and the council would have been huge, Major pop concerts, International football matches, Possibly European cup finals, other major sports, and of course athletics, it would also give Scotland another stadium fit for the purpose for when applying for the Euros.

 

Thirdly, moving on from money that could have been generated, this would have allowed both Hearts and Hibs to possible compete with the OF more closely, while neither club will ever have the fan base of the OF it has been proved on many occasions that both clubs do have a huge fan base when the product on the park is producing, and playing to bigger crowds and extra revenue both clubs could have been in a position to take on the OF eventually. 60,000 though i hear many say, modern stadiums can be adapted in ways that even if 20,000 - 30,000 were in the ground there can still be a great atmosphere, and there would most definately be times when 30,000 could be achieved even against teams outside the OF if either team were challenging. You just need to look back to 05/06 season for proof of the amount of fans that can be generated, we could have sold 25,000 tickets for tynie each week then easily. I remember being in Tynie back in the late 80's particularly from 85/86 onwards when 20,000+ was regular.

 

This leads me on to the glory hunters, as we all know every team has them the OF have a vast proportion of ther crowd made up of these fans. Imagine a strong Hearts and Hibs challenging the OF each season, how many of these Edinburgh Weedgie wannabes would decide to start following either team? a lot would be my guess. Anderton touched on this when he was there and what he said is still being carried out today, trying to win over the youngsters and encouraging them to follow Hearts instead of going out buying an OF shirt get a Hearts one instead.

 

Like many other Jambos and I'll say Hibs fans as well its very difficult to contemplate leaving our spiritual home, however this is the times we are in now football is not just a results driven business anymore but a money driven business. Look at the amount of far bigger clubs that are moving to new stadiums to maximise revenue, some going it alone others with council partnerships etc.

 

Wallace Mercer R.I.P. love him or hate him for his attempted takeover of Hibs new this way back then some 18 years ago, although pretty much all of us can agree it was wrong in the way he did it you can see why he was doing it and what he wanted to attempt. He new both Edinburgh clubs could not take on the might of the OF on their own and would in some way have to pull resources or work together.

[Feeno]

I wonder if the downturn in public houses in Gorgie will help swell the bars that are to be in the Stadium complex. Quite a wait for a pint tho.

[portobellojambo1]

He'd actually get a bit more respect if he came out and said that the plans have to be scaled down or even suspended for a while.

 

Instead he's still coming out with nonsense that everyone but the most naive knows is not going to happen because its not affordable to us.

 

The worrying thing is that its only a matter of time before the Old stand fails its safety certificate.

 

I think in one or two things that have been said recently there have been veiled hints that this route might actually be followed OaG (think Fedotovas may have said/ hinted at something along these lines at the recent AGM of the HMSA).

 

I think something has to be done with the old stand sooner rather than later, or at the very least eventually, because I think if it doesn't get pulled down it could fall down of its own accord just through age (and there is the safety certificate to think about).

 

But in the present climate I think they will take as long as possible before deciding whether to go ahead or not, and which route to take (i.e. the full shabbang or a stand only)

[davemclaren]

I think in one or two things that have been said recently there have been veiled hints that this route might actually be followed OaG (think Fedotovas may have said/ hinted at something along these lines at the recent AGM of the HMSA).

 

I think something has to be done with the old stand sooner rather than later, or at the very least eventually, because I think if it doesn't get pulled down it could fall down of its own accord just through age (and there is the safety certificate to think about).

 

But in the present climate I think they will take as long as possible before deciding whether to go ahead or not, and which route to take (i.e. the full shabbang or a stand only)

 

It was indeed mentioned at the HMSA agm by Sergi Fedotovas. However, my own view is that any stand is predicated on the associated developments whatever they would be. I'll be amazed if VR goes ahead with the current plans but I'll be totally gobsmacked if he builds a stand without any ancillary stuff to fund it.

[Buffalo Bill]

With a bit of imagination, I think a perfectly good, modern stand could be built on the the present site, without the need for a five star hotel and 80 metre high glass tower.

 

Romanov is into architecture; and a key driver for ths project is for him to construct something memorable.

 

But even still, a stand alone could still be impressive without the need for all the other stuff. As we've seen recently from Munich and Beijing: sports stadiums can be spectacular.

 

I know the argument is that the ?51M (plus) project with increase revenue etc but is it a risk worth taking?

 

Would they not be better spending ?8M?

 

I feel a stand alone, would be passed through quickly by the council.

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Coco]

I think that the work to keep the main stand open should go ahead. Go for planning permission but mothball the idea of redevelopment for now.

 

Land value of Tynecastle perhaps 1/2 or less of the CALA bid time now. Not enough cash to build a sizeable new stadium within sensible distance of Tynecastle, particularly given the club's debt.

[Cow]

The new stand could still be built without all the extras including hotel etc.

The only downside to that is that the original plan was to build the hotel and conference rooms etc to help hearts become self efficient and not rely solely on HMFC revenue to fund the club , this extra revenue may have been earmarked to help pay for the stand in the first place.

 

I personally cant see a new stand being built at the moment due to lack of funds but as we dont really know the full extent of the clubs finances(except for sirgay of course who seems to know more than us) this is just my take on it.

[Billy the Jambo]

I have more chance of becoming the Pope than we have of building a new stand

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Mate of mine works for the firm workign along side Hearts for the stand. He has been telling me quitea few things over the past 12 months. Some of which sound very likely being Hearts/Vlad and some which sound mince as hes a Don.

 

Basic things being Fedotov (maybe not him but one of vlads yes men) had been involved in a few back handers trying to get things moving on as well as the plans that where approved being miles off what was originally wanted by Vlad/Hearts. I need to get the whole story off him again as this was ages ago and there may be a few other things hes since found out/made up.

[Hackney Hearts]

I have more chance of becoming the Pope than we have of building a new stand

 

No idea who you are - does that mean the new stand is likely or unlikely?

[Cow]

I have more chance of becoming the Pope than we have of building a new stand

 

Pope Billy , qaulity:laugh:

[Billy the Jambo]

No idea who you are - does that mean the new stand is likely or unlikely?

 

UNLIKELY

[Hackney Hearts]

UNLIKELY

 

Cool. Just checking you weren't a member of Vatican Hearts S.C. or anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

:108years:

[Cigaro]

We might see when the accounts are published.

[mundojambo]

i am semi-confident of this stand going ahead. it may have to be done in 2 phases. i just want to see something happen, but between vlad and the council, it's no surprise that it's taking forever

[davieholt]

With a bit of imagination, I think a perfectly good, modern stand could be built on the the present site, without the need for a five star hotel and 80 metre high glass tower.

 

Romanov is into architecture; and a key driver for ths project is for him to construct something memorable.

 

But even still, a stand alone could still be impressive without the need for all the other stuff. As we've seen recently from Munich and Beijing: sports stadiums can be spectacular.

 

I know the argument is that the ?51M (plus) project with increase revenue etc but is it a risk worth taking?

 

Would they not be better spending ?8M?

 

I feel a stand alone, would be passed through quickly by the council.

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

The problem is money I think. A standalone stand would need to be self funded through additional gate receipts. A risky strategy.

 

I'm pretty sure the current proposed development is supposed to provide an element of cross subsidy to keep the ground viable even when crowds are down.

[Buffalo Bill]

The problem is money I think. A standalone stand would need to be self funded through additional gate receipts. A risky strategy.

 

I'm pretty sure the current proposed development is supposed to provide an element of cross subsidy to keep the ground viable even when crowds are down.

 

But a stand alone stand could eventually self-fund through corporate hospitality, functions, bar etc, could it not?

 

And isn't spending ?8M (or there abouts) be much less risky than a ?51M starting point?

 

Why do we need to build back to McLeod Street when we could build up the way?

 

We could make this stand three tiers if we wanted to with all the corporate room we'll ever need.

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[davieholt]

But a stand alone stand could eventually self-fund through corporate hospitality, functions, bar etc, could it not?

 

And isn't spending ?8M (or there abouts) be much less risky than a ?51M starting point?

 

Why do we need to build back to McLeod Street when we could build up the way?

 

We could make this stand three tiers if we wanted to with all the corporate room we'll ever need.

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

I'm sure Vlad and his cohorts are agonising over this equation as we type It comes down to supply and demand. Is there a demand for an extra 6000 seats ? Is there a demand for corporate hospitality which will rake in an extra ?1m pa (the approx cost of servicing a ?10m loan).

 

The answers are probably 'no' to both at the moment but will that change over the next 2/3 years ? It comes down to team performances between now and then - particularly then !

 

Perhaps the switch to academy-raised players males sense in this context ? The timing seems about right.

[jamborich]

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/portal/getEdmDoc?docid=62530674&ext=pdf

 

No idea whether the stand will go ahead however there still appears to be transport issues which still need to be resolved before anything can happen.

[Cambo_Jambo]

I have more chance of becoming the Pope than we have of building a new stand

 

Get the somke ready!

[The Don]

I think that the work to keep the main stand open should go ahead. Go for planning permission but mothball the idea of redevelopment for now.

 

Land value of Tynecastle perhaps 1/2 or less of the CALA bid time now. Not enough cash to build a sizeable new stadium within sensible distance of Tynecastle, particularly given the club's debt.

 

Land value has not Halfed in the last 12 months, especially in Edinburgh.

 

Figure could be wrong but land and property prices in Edinburgh have lost approx 6% since this time last year, and in fact that has only been lost in the last 2 months

 

Remember the valuation when Cala looked at buying was approx 4 years ago. There would have been a 3 year increase in that price until prperty and land value started decreasing, so the original valuation is not the benchmark. The benchamrk would be when the value topped out around 3 months ago.

 

Only in November 2008 City of Edinburgh prices were still actually rising by 2.9%

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/uk_house_prices/html/qp.stm

 

January reported a 4% reduction. According to the EN

[Coco]

Land value has not Halfed in the last 12 months, especially in Edinburgh.

 

Figure could be wrong but land and property prices in Edinburgh have lost approx 6% since this time last year, and in fact that has only been lost in the last 2 months

 

Remember the valuation when Cala looked at buying was approx 4 years ago. There would have been a 3 year increase in that price until prperty and land value started decreasing, so the original valuation is not the benchmark. The benchamrk would be when the value topped out around 3 months ago.

 

Only in November 2008 City of Edinburgh prices were still actually rising by 2.9%

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/uk_house_prices/html/qp.stm

 

January reported a 4% reduction. According to the EN

 

Development land is quoted as having fallen in price by 50-75% - Buredi development just gone bust, Springside mothballed, HBoS Fountainbridge going to be cancelled, Waterfront development land fallen at least 50% etc etc.

 

My guess would be that a 50% reduction on the CALA bid price would be conservative.

[PTBCAL]

Development land is quoted as having fallen in price by 50-75% - Buredi development just gone bust, Springside mothballed, HBoS Fountainbridge going to be cancelled, Waterfront development land fallen at least 50% etc etc.

 

My guess would be that a 50% reduction on the CALA bid price would be conservative.

 

Is this true?

 

Heard something similar a few weeks back.

[Coco]

Is this true?

 

Heard something similar a few weeks back.

 

Guessing.

 

But anyone still expect a global HBoS HQ in Edinburgh anymore?

[The Don]

Development land is quoted as having fallen in price by 50-75% - Buredi development just gone bust, Springside mothballed, HBoS Fountainbridge going to be cancelled, Waterfront development land fallen at least 50% etc etc.

 

My guess would be that a 50% reduction on the CALA bid price would be conservative.

 

Even taking your estimates as correct, the Value of Tynecastle will not be half the value Cala were going to pay, as i said before prices starting dropping there would have been at least a 3 year increase on that original value, in what was one of the biggest rising land/property markets in the UK.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Even taking your estimates as correct, the Value of Tynecastle will not be half the value Cala were going to pay, as i said before prices starting dropping there would have been at least a 3 year increase on that original value, in what was one of the biggest rising land/property markets in the UK.

 

 

When the new stand gets built i hope they build in extra large seats for some of my friends.

 

[Coco]

Even taking your estimates as correct, the Value of Tynecastle will not be half the value Cala were going to pay, as i said before prices starting dropping there would have been at least a 3 year increase on that original value, in what was one of the biggest rising land/property markets in the UK.

 

How many buyers of land for flats are there at the moment?

 

All the developers are on the verge of going bust! So 50% fall on the CALA price suggests a value fall similar to elsewhere in Edinburgh compared to peak value.

 

Running an efficient football club might be the most profitable use of the land for the first time in decades - long may that continue.

[The Don]

When the new stand gets built i hope they build in extra large seats for some of my friends.

 

 

I hope so too.

 

Not just for your friends sake though eh m8? :108years:

 

You spoke to Mothy yet about Saturday what times he meeting us and where? Hope youv'e told him to bring his wallet this time :108years:

 

Ill frame any drink auld rubber pants might buy and keep it as a momento. :108years:

[Ally Alexander]

But a stand alone stand could eventually self-fund through corporate hospitality, functions, bar etc, could it not?

 

And isn't spending ?8M (or there abouts) be much less risky than a ?51M starting point?

 

Why do we need to build back to McLeod Street when we could build up the way?

 

We could make this stand three tiers if we wanted to with all the corporate room we'll ever need.

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

Doubt that the main stand could be replaced for anything less than ?20M. Even doing the development in 2 phases is likely to incur a 25 to 50% increase in overall cost.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

I hope so too.

 

Not just for your friends sake though eh m8? :108years:

 

You spoke to Mothy yet about Saturday what times he meeting us and where? Hope youv'e told him to bring his wallet this time :108years:

 

Ill frame any drink auld rubber pants might buy and keep it as a momento. :108years:

 

 

The Moth NEVER surfaces before about 1pm m8 after he has been for his traditional matchday haircut...Bizarre.

 

His royal rubber pantiedness will develope man-flu just about now to avoid shelling out as is his tradition on matchday....Tight wad.

[The Don]

How many buyers of land for flats are there at the moment?

 

All the developers are on the verge of going bust! So 50% fall on the CALA price suggests a value fall similar to elsewhere in Edinburgh compared to peak value.

 

Running an efficient football club might be the most profitable use of the land for the first time in decades - long may that continue.

 

Not disagreeing with you about developers going bust etc.

 

What im trying to say though was.

 

Cala valuation for Tynecastle was what 18million? for 3 years that valuation would have increased, by x percent. I've no idea how much per annum but even taking a monthly increase of 2% which is very low for Edinburgh thats a yearly of 24% a rise of 4.32million over 3 years giving 12.96million. Making the value of the land when it topped out approx 30million, half that as you say 50% is the reduction value and you have 15million only 3million less than when Cala valued the land.

[The Don]

The Moth NEVER surfaces before about 1pm m8 after he has been for his traditional matchday haircut...Bizarre.

 

His royal rubber pantiedness will develope man-flu just about now to avoid shelling out as is his tradition on matchday....Tight wad.

 

Our moths a strange one right enough, he's no hair to cut by 1pm ill be into my 8th pint and onto the brandies :108years:

[Coco]

Not disagreeing with you about developers going bust etc.

 

What im trying to say though was.

 

Cala valuation for Tynecastle was what 18million? for 3 years that valuation would have increased, by x percent. I've no idea how much per annum but even taking a monthly increase of 2% which is very low for Edinburgh thats a yearly of 24% a rise of 4.32million over 3 years giving 12.96million. Making the value of the land when it topped out approx 30million, half that as you say 50% is the reduction value and you have 15million only 3million less than when Cala valued the land.

 

I think that the falls from peak are more than 50%.

 

Assuming you are right about the increases to peak (think those are aggressive too), a 75% fall takes the value of the Tynecastle land to under ?8m - assuming that there is any buyer out there.

[jambojim52]

There is also the vast sum the council want for a tram stop. IMHO Hearts should tell them to shove the regeneration of Gorgie up their erky along with the stand/hotel for as long as they try to blackmail us. However the council would simply refuse a certificate for the old stand and where would we be. The old stand cert will run out soon anyway so what will Hearts do then?

[savage]

i think it will happen, don't know when but we have invested a lot in planning and architects etc to pull the plug

[JamboMarc]

Why not build the stand in the coming years leaving out the hotel etc. Then in the future (10 years?) we can think about the hotel! Is that not the best solution?

[murdo_b]

Doubt that the main stand could be replaced for anything less than ?20M. Even doing the development in 2 phases is likely to incur a 25 to 50% increase in overall cost.

 

Would it not actually be cheaper to build the new stand next year. With the recession the cost of materials and labour will come down.