Coco Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Everything will be fine with St Andrew square once they've sold HMFC to the fans for ?2M cash & ?8M debt! I think that the price is going down. Assets probably not worth ?10m any more. Credit crunch and all. I see that most of the Fountainbridge/Springside development has gone bust/mothballed. Wonder when we will build the hotel/offices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 2012-2015 at a guess, the construction industry will need new commercial development once the squeeze begins on public funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Think you've missed a "K" out of your name. Anyone care to explain the business model behind the purchase of the St Andrew Square building? After all, given that VR is a successful businessman, there must be an explanation why his company bought the place at the very top of the biggest property bubble in UK history and has failed to rent it out for more than 18 months so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalryJambo Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 I realise this might seem like boring homework to some readers, but anyone with an interest in the subject could do worse than read the Guardian's current investigation into tax avoidance. It's quite interesting, some of it, kind of http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/series/tax-gap I've read it and the following line backs up the underlining point i've made. "By shifting these factors, such as the risks borne in different parts of a company, a multinational can readily move its profit to where it will be most lightly taxed" He is then using these (and other) savings and reinvesting it back in to Hearts, but again in a way the UK government receive no/little Tax. VR was accused of doing what the article suggest at his steel plant. He sold the raw material produced from the factory at cost price to a company in a country with lower tax charges on profits. This meant the factory only broke even and didn't provide its shareholders with a good ROI. One of the shareholders happened to be the local government and the money they had invested was the countries pension scheme. This made the council sad. Unfortunately no one can make you run a profitable company or dictate what you sell your products for. If country ‘A’ had a tax rate of 15% and country ‘B’ had a tax rate of 5% there is a large saving to be made. This also explains why many players signed for Kaunus and were loaned to hearts. Players in this country could lose up to 40-50% of earnings per month. We could offer players the same after tax amount (our slightly higher, to make it worth their while) but at a lower gross cost to ourselves. I believe some of the Arsenal players and I would guess many other premiership clubs pay their players from offshore accounts/in to offshore account, in such a way as to minimise massive tax bills. It’s a massive loop hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo_74 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Have explained my reasoning for doing so, and DJ accepted my apology and i accepted his. Rightly or wrongly with the amount of hobo economists that infiltrate these boards someone coming on after a couple dozen posts saying Romanov is siphoning money did look a tad suspect. As i said its over with, probably wont be the last time he or even myself might be accused of such things depending on what we post, and could have been worse could have called him a mhank. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintage1874 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I've read it and the following line backs up the underlining point i've made. "By shifting these factors, such as the risks borne in different parts of a company, a multinational can readily move its profit to where it will be most lightly taxed" He is then using these (and other) savings and reinvesting it back in to Hearts, but again in a way the UK government receive no/little Tax. VR was accused of doing what the article suggest at his steel plant. He sold the raw material produced from the factory at cost price to a company in a country with lower tax charges on profits. This meant the factory only broke even and didn't provide its shareholders with a good ROI. One of the shareholders happened to be the local government and the money they had invested was the countries pension scheme. This made the council sad. Unfortunately no one can make you run a profitable company or dictate what you sell your products for. If country ?A? had a tax rate of 15% and country ?B? had a tax rate of 5% there is a large saving to be made. This also explains why many players signed for Kaunus and were loaned to hearts. Players in this country could lose up to 40-50% of earnings per month. We could offer players the same after tax amount (our slightly higher, to make it worth their while) but at a lower gross cost to ourselves. I believe some of the Arsenal players and I would guess many other premiership clubs pay their players from offshore accounts/in to offshore account, in such a way as to minimise massive tax bills. It?s a massive loop hole. DJ well done, your OP is very interesting and well researched. Vlad has a track record of being a good businessman so will be well aware of ways to avoid tax etc. Good point about performance of the team, sure I've read VR or someone at hearts state that team on the pitch may suffer before the club is put right this would certainly fit with your theory. Hopefully we have enough in the tank for a big cup run this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I see that most of the Fountainbridge/Springside development has gone bust/mothballed. Really? I live really close to it and hadn't heard Google News doesn't come up with anything Although having said that I wouldn't be surprised. Do you have any further information or even a verifiable source that will be more credible in conversations with my neighbours than "some guy on the internet called coco" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Everything will be fine with St Andrew square once they've sold HMFC to the fans for ?2M cash & ?8M debt! If you can find the ?2M cash I'll donate the ?8M debt:mw_rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Really? I live really close to it and hadn't heard Google News doesn't come up with anything Although having said that I wouldn't be surprised. Do you have any further information or even a verifiable source that will be more credible in conversations with my neighbours than "some guy on the internet called coco" Here's your story, from that finest source of quality news, The Scotsman: http://business.scotsman.com/royalbankofscotland/Developers-blame-RBS-as-80m.4934011.jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Haggis Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Really? I live really close to it and hadn't heard Google News doesn't come up with anything Although having said that I wouldn't be surprised. Do you have any further information or even a verifiable source that will be more credible in conversations with my neighbours than "some guy on the internet called coco" This?: http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Brewery--site-blow-as.4939691.jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I've said it before and I'll say it again. All fans want is to see their team win as often as possible. When Mad Vlad and his barmy army's objectives aren't aligned with the fans it's obvious there will be cause for concern. Hearts are about football, VR is about business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Here's your story, from that finest source of quality news, The Scotsman: http://business.scotsman.com/royalbankofscotland/Developers-blame-RBS-as-80m.4934011.jp This?: http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Brewery--site-blow-as.4939691.jp Ah that makes more sense! From Coco's post I thought it was work on Springside (the half-built bit between Fountainbridge and the West approach road) that was stopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I've said it before and I'll say it again. All fans want is to see their team win as often as possible. When Mad Vlad and his barmy army's objectives aren't aligned with the fans it's obvious there will be cause for concern. Hearts are about football, VR is about business. I agree. Results, and by that I mean cup finals and championship challenges would get fans flocking back, and they'd soon forget about stances such as 'morals' and business concerns. Likewise, when results are down over a sustained period, fans will offer explanations of 'morals' and business concerns. That's not a criticism. Just an observation. Buffalo Bill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Ah that makes more sense! From Coco's post I thought it was work on Springside (the half-built bit between Fountainbridge and the West approach road) that was stopping. I don't have a link, but I think that the paper version of Scotland on Sunday (in the piece on the Buredi site) said that phase 2 (ie everything not above ground level so far) on Springside is going to be mothballed/cancelled. So anyone buying one of the hideous 'executive' flats on the bit now built is going to live on a gap site. In addition the old Brewery loading site opposite the cinema is surely about to be scrapped too - can't see HBOS building a global HQ any time soon! I favour a nice park with a few swings and roundabouts, some trees etc for this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac_fae_Gillie Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 VR has other clubs and has done well with them,he simply got out of his depth. I think his idea of giving us tried and tested east europeon players was sound but too much quantity and not enuff qualilty made for a daft wage output with out the on pitch payback. AND of course his hands on approach at the start which cost us Burley,well that is a issue I hope never occurs again as he seems to have learned from it. VR is a guy who wants success here at Hearts of that im sure he has not gone about it very well but that is the Russian Million in him. Only huge messes I see are... Burley...hurt us bad,but would he have stayed if Rangers came asking??? Crazy Ivan managers...they had no experience in UK football and destroyed team spirit beyond belief,but although he got it wrong he did it cuss he knew the guys had done well in BLRs/Lith etc,so it was not done to hurt us. Too many poor qualilty Liths,yep the very painful "why is that useless lump playing" This is the nightmare of him putting us at the top of the feeder list to advertise these players andcrete income,never understand why some players were ever thought of as good enuff "to be viewed" and looks like its at an end now... We are a club with debts,scraping UEFA and hopefully a cup has been our target all my life(darn 86)and it still is,I see no way out of that unless Rangers get into trouble(please god). Vlads messed up but we still have Tynie we won the cup(and the semi eh 4-0) we have a future which differs no more than it has since 1960... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I don't have a link, but I think that the paper version of Scotland on Sunday (in the piece on the Buredi site) said that phase 2 (ie everything not above ground level so far) on Springside is going to be mothballed/cancelled. So anyone buying one of the hideous 'executive' flats on the bit now built is going to live on a gap site. In addition the old Brewery loading site opposite the cinema is surely about to be scrapped too - can't see HBOS building a global HQ any time soon! I favour a nice park with a few swings and roundabouts, some trees etc for this area. You're quite right - from one of the pieces linked to above: "The move comes as developers of the adjacent Springside site have put the second phase of their project on hold until the economy improves. There are also growing doubts over whether the new Lloyds Banking Group will continue to develop HBOS's plans for a major office hub in the area." I'd wondered what was going to happen there. So what about the bit on the site of the old bus garage at Waverley, anyone know about that...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I've read it and the following line backs up the underlining point i've made. "By shifting these factors, such as the risks borne in different parts of a company, a multinational can readily move its profit to where it will be most lightly taxed" He is then using these (and other) savings and reinvesting it back in to Hearts, but again in a way the UK government receive no/little Tax. VR was accused of doing what the article suggest at his steel plant. He sold the raw material produced from the factory at cost price to a company in a country with lower tax charges on profits. This meant the factory only broke even and didn't provide its shareholders with a good ROI. One of the shareholders happened to be the local government and the money they had invested was the countries pension scheme. This made the council sad. Unfortunately no one can make you run a profitable company or dictate what you sell your products for. If country ‘A’ had a tax rate of 15% and country ‘B’ had a tax rate of 5% there is a large saving to be made. This also explains why many players signed for Kaunus and were loaned to hearts. Players in this country could lose up to 40-50% of earnings per month. We could offer players the same after tax amount (our slightly higher, to make it worth their while) but at a lower gross cost to ourselves. I believe some of the Arsenal players and I would guess many other premiership clubs pay their players from offshore accounts/in to offshore account, in such a way as to minimise massive tax bills. It’s a massive loop hole. Heh, thought you might have been on there, DJ! There's also mention in the Guardian piece of UK businesses being able to claim tax relief against the interest paid on debts, as kind-of mentioned by a poster above. So Hearts will be getting plenty of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Think you've missed a "K" out of your name. Ah yes, an excellent retort. That's helped clear up matters no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I agree. Results, and by that I mean cup finals and championship challenges would get fans flocking back, and they'd soon forget about stances such as 'morals' and business concerns. Likewise, when results are down over a sustained period, fans will offer explanations of 'morals' and business concerns. That's not a criticism. Just an observation. Buffalo Bill . There is quite a bit of truth in your post however it's a bit one dimensional. Unfortunately the performance of the team is directly linked with Mad Vlad's interference, thus, when he is not around the team does better. In other words I won't be going to any cup final (contrary to what you believe I've said in the past) until I am convinced that VR is acting in the best interests of Hearts fans. Short term results confuse a lot of people who lose sight of the wider picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevmacd Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I shall remember that next time you call me a hatkicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64,078
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.