Dazo Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Assuming Berra goes have the club made a terrible decision by selling him ? This is not a have a go a VR thread before anyone starts. If he goes we now desperately require a centre half and a striker. How much do you realistically expect to pay for 2 decent replacements ? Fair enough we have a couple of million in the bank but we have left the team incredibly short. Is it wrong to expect VR to bankroll us until a offer we can't really refuse comes in ? The current figure is no way near that amount and is not even to get replacements in and make any real dent in our debt. As a club have we changed our stance to that similar of the wee team ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I think it is an inevitable decision and ot necesary a bad one if it puts us on a sounder footing. I would rather we held out for ?3 mill, but if it was apparent we would not get that, then the reported ?2.5 mill is probably fair enough. What whe should not do is decide on the merits of the decision based purely on yesterday's poor result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Sunday Mail reports he's signed for 2.3m after passing a medical last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Assuming Berra goes have the club made a terrible decision by selling him ? This is not a have a go a VR thread before anyone starts. If he goes we now desperately require a centre half and a striker. How much do you realistically expect to pay for 2 decent replacements ? Fair enough we have a couple of million in the bank but we have left the team incredibly short. Is it wrong to expect VR to bankroll us until a offer we can't really refuse comes in ? The current figure is no way near that amount and is not even to get replacements in and make any real dent in our debt. As a club have we changed our stance to that similar of the wee team ? The money is needed now. Replacements will be freebies or nominal amounts. Yes, it is not what we really want anyway. We want to live within our means. The money is for running costs and is not for the debt. Yes, and every other club barring the Old Firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 I think it is an inevitable decision and ot necesary a bad one if it puts us on a sounder footing. I would rather we held out for ?3 mill, but if it was apparent we would not get that, then the reported ?2.5 mill is probably fair enough. What whe should not do is decide on the merits of the decision based purely on yesterday's poor result. This is nothing to do with yesterdays result. Do you agree we now need a defender and a striker ? If so how much is it going to cost to get them ? Or is the team now of secondary importance like the **** ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 The money is needed now.Replacements will be freebies or nominal amounts. Yes, it is not what we really want anyway. We want to live within our means. The money is for running costs and is not for the debt. Yes, and every other club barring the Old Firm. Who says the money is needed now ? If it is not for debt and we get 2 players in our running costs will be even higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 This is nothing to do with yesterdays result. Do you agree we now need a defender and a striker ? If so how much is it going to cost to get them ? Or is the team now of secondary importance like the **** ? I do, and I was not meaning your OP was posted on that basis, just saying when analysing the situation we should not look at one game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 I do, and I was not meaning your OP was posted on that basis, just saying when analysing the situation we should not look at one game. I agree, I did say before yesterdays game that we would lose a lot more games with him not in the team. I just think we have got this one completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Wooks Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Assuming Berra goes have the club made a terrible decision by selling him ? This is not a have a go a VR thread before anyone starts. If he goes we now desperately require a centre half and a striker. How much do you realistically expect to pay for 2 decent replacements ? Fair enough we have a couple of million in the bank but we have left the team incredibly short. Is it wrong to expect VR to bankroll us until a offer we can't really refuse comes in ? The current figure is no way near that amount and is not even to get replacements in and make any real dent in our debt. As a club have we changed our stance to that similar of the wee team ? I think its a sign of the times and the current financial climate were in I.m sure we could replace Berra with a 500k buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bam Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Nobody has mentioned that Berra wanted to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Who says the money is needed now ? If it is not for debt and we get 2 players in our running costs will be even higher. The running costs will be higher if the wages are higher but we are going to lose a lot of players at the end of the season. If no players are sold this month then UBIG will be asked to invest more money. UBIG are still comitted to the looking after the financial security of HMFC long term. To me this means we need the money now. Based on financial projections Hearts have a ?3.5M shortfall in funding up to the end of the financial year (July?) that they are looking to make up from transfers. If there remains a shortfall, then the gap will be made up from Vlad's own pocket rather than UBIG on this occasion. That is a worrying situation, as we have no idea of what free funds Vlad can get his hands on. Source ? - Will have to remain nameless, but it is impeccable. And again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Who says the money is needed now ? If it is not for debt and we get 2 players in our running costs will be even higher. I think the point IMA was trying to make was that because Hearts run at a financial loss (going by the last decade or more accounts) then there is a shortfall between the clubs income & expenditure - if Hearts want to live within their means then they need to make good that shortfall by selling players to avoid having to increase debts or be bank-rolled by UKIO or UBIG. I think he's also correct in that any new players coming in will not be for substantial transfer fees and we will look at end-of-contract or low-transfer-fee or younger players as replacements. Come the summer when approx 20 players go out of contract Hearts have the opportunity to re-organise the playing staff and the overall wage level so the shortfall should be much less or we might even operate at break-even (ideally - possibly optimistic) therefore we don't have to rely on selling our better players to raise money needed to stabilise the clubs finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Stinkfinger Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Berra wanted away,the club needs the money. Not quantum physics in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty Frisko Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Csaba has said all along that the target for this year is top six, if we achieve that then he will think about Europe. I am sure I read somewhere the other day that he feels another 9 points will guarantee that. He probably feels that 9 points are achievable with or without Berra. I don't think we can use yesterdays result as a barometer of how it is going to be without Berra, Hamilton are on a good run at home, it was always going to be tricky and every team around us lost as well so we have not lost out in the big picture. There is a big article in the Hibsman on Sunday this morning talking about the future and the restructuring that he is planning in the summer. I think the Berra sale is the, slightly contradictory, start of this. We are heading to be a young 70% UK team that will sell for profit. Haven't we always been? In answer to the OP, I think the answer is no, the timing sucks but in the grand scale of things I don't think it will be too disastrous. We still need a striker. FTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Not a disaster, assuming we got around the 2.3-2.5 quoted. Still think we could've got more by holding off till the summer and hopefully getting a crazy bid, but at the same time we could've got less had we sold last summer. All in all a decent fee for a good defender. Now we have the job of replacing him, and getting a striker in before Monday. It would appear we have some plans in place, lets hope we fulfill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Not a disaster, assuming we got around the 2.3-2.5 quoted. Still think we could've got more by holding off till the summer and hopefully getting a crazy bid, but at the same time we could've got less had we sold last summer. All in all a decent fee for a good defender. Now we have the job of replacing him, and getting a striker in before Monday. It would appear we have some plans in place, lets hope we fulfill them. As I sais, it was inevitable, as Dazo said, we need a defended and a striker - if we do not get them, then there will be dissappointment, but it would not be a disiasters, but as you ay, if we do fulfill them then it could work out well, long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairdin Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 It wasn't a bad decision to sell Berra. From where I'm standing the club did everything they could to squeeze the maximum fee they could out of Wolves. The crazy way the world is just now, who's to say we'd have got ?2.5m if we'd held out until summer. If Hearts don't bring in a striker and/or a defender to replace Berra, then that would be a bad decision. The top 6 might have been the target, but we are only 1 player away from having a team that will be good enough to secure a UEFA cup place - especially with Sellic doing their usual winter trick of dismantling the other (potential) top 6 teams from outside Weejieville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy_Jambo Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 berra wanted to go! It would of been silly holding on to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independence Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 berra wanted to go! It would of been silly holding on to him. He wanted to go last summer and therefore this is yet another piece of good businesss for the club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Berra wanted to go, it would have been far worse to keep him and spoil an option for him to leave. We got the going rate for someone in the SPL of his age, going down south. We cannot and never will compete with the bigger wages of the English game. Therefore i dont see how we could have not let this happen, instead, we seem to have managed it to maximise the benefit to the club. This move is as positive as it can be in the long term. As for replacements, it would be nice to have an immedaite replacement to slot in, but all clubs would like this to be the case. Im sure it only rarely ever happens that way. We do have Eggy, Karapidis and youngsters who can play at the back. So Berra going has not left us totally screwed. But we HAVE lost a captain and leader on the park, and this is maybe more difficult to get over. As for suggesting this puts us on a footbing with Hibs...no. For all the reasons above this move was always going to happen, and does not signal something new. It was inevitable and natural, not a cash cow. Definately an interesting time for HMFC though. The team needs a new leader and voice. Needs to rearrange at the back and galvanise the steps forward they have alreay made.....all without Christophe Berra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedp6873 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I mentioned yesterday in the pub that was it worth loosing out on the european place for ?2.3m?? yeah ok as much as he wanted to leave i think it will cost us that 3rd place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 the main worry for me is we will probably start to see the worst of zaliukas now berra is away.......................... if we start shipping goals without a goal scorer in the team we will start to tumble down the league sharpish,imo.................. so,in summary,its a very bad decision................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I mentioned yesterday in the pub that was it worth loosing out on the european place for ?2.3m?? yeah ok as much as he wanted to leave i think it will cost us that 3rd place. Berra is not the difference between a European place and missing out on one. Centre-halfs are ten a penny, luckily we got ?2.3m or so for an average one and as you seem to conveniently forget - BERRA WANTED TO LEAVE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Berra is not the difference between a European place and missing out on one. Centre-halfs are ten a penny, luckily we got ?2.3m or so for an average one and as you seem to conveniently forget - BERRA WANTED TO LEAVE! whether berra wanted to leave or not was irrelavant,he was under contract and could go nowhere unless sanctioned by the club................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Did anyone else know Berra wanted to leave ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 If we do not sign a defender AND a striker we will not finish third. If we sign NEITHER, we won't get European football. Sometimes, you need to keep a player, sometimes you need to sign a capable replacement. Irrespective of what people seem to think about our financial affairs (amazing how many people KNOW how much we need and when we need it btw) our finances will worsen if we fail to make Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Berra is not the difference between a European place and missing out on one. Centre-halfs are ten a penny, luckily we got ?2.3m or so for an average one and as you seem to conveniently forget - BERRA WANTED TO LEAVE! Ted said third and not fifth btw. Anyway, you are partially correct, losing Berra will not cost us third, losing Berra and not replacing him with a good defender will cost us third. As for ten a penny....nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_R Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 shouldve kept him until the end of season. We'll badly miss him unless a suitable replacement is found. Getting rid of one of our best players and captain in the run in to the end of the season can't possibly be seen as a good move! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Did anyone else know Berra wanted to leave ? Nope, said over and over again he was happy to stay at Hearts. If we do not sign a defender AND a striker we will not finish third. If we sign NEITHER, we won't get European football. Sometimes, you need to keep a player, sometimes you need to sign a capable replacement. Irrespective of what people seem to think about our financial affairs (amazing how many people KNOW how much we need and when we need it btw) our finances will worsen if we fail to make Europe. Correct, as I said on another thread there is one guaranteed way to generate off field income in football, be successful on the park. To achieve success on the park means retaining your better players and offloading the crap. Continually sell your better players and you will merely tread water. Playing well, winning trophies, qualifying for Europe, the ways to make money in football, selling your best players, not the way to achieve these objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Did anyone else know Berra wanted to leave ? Changing agents a month before the transfer window opens strongly suggests he was preparing for a move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I think it is an inevitable decision and ot necesary a bad one if it puts us on a sounder footing. I would rather we held out for ?3 mill, but if it was apparent we would not get that, then the reported ?2.5 mill is probably fair enough. What whe should not do is decide on the merits of the decision based purely on yesterday's poor result. Another variable that has to be considered is the market for footballers: Is there any certainty that a similar or greater value would be achieved in the summer given the state of the economy leading to a loss of sponsors, increasing number of clubs in financial trouble and an increase in number of players for sale. It is arguable that we are already seeing this. IMO, a good bit of business by the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Did anyone else know Berra wanted to leave ? Nope it seems everyone who thinks it was a good idea to sell him knew though. So the main argument for selling him is he wanted to leave ? Despite him saying he was happy to stay. IMO it was a mistake to sell him for that amount. If it was over ?3m then it may have been worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Great piece of business. ?2.3 million for a slightly above average defender who didn't want to be here. Everyone's a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vanbasten1874 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Assuming Berra goes have the club made a terrible decision by selling him ? This is not a have a go a VR thread before anyone starts. If he goes we now desperately require a centre half and a striker. How much do you realistically expect to pay for 2 decent replacements ? Fair enough we have a couple of million in the bank but we have left the team incredibly short. Is it wrong to expect VR to bankroll us until a offer we can't really refuse comes in ? The current figure is no way near that amount and is not even to get replacements in and make any real dent in our debt. As a club have we changed our stance to that similar of the wee team ? Spot on totally agree with you , why should we not expect VR to bankroll us ooops sorry is that racist , he is our owner his he not , why bother with a club if you dont want it to be challenging for honors on a regular basis whats the feckin point oops scuse my langauge , its all very well watching youths develope into fine players but if its just a commodity to sell for profit who benefits i would say not the fans , VR would be just aswell paying for his Agents licence and be done with it because at the end of the day thats all this is a glorified players supermarket , its got no soul no passion and no ambition but i wont give it up because its still hearts inside out and backto front but still hearts sorry about any typos and misplaced commas dont want the typo polis at my door ,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Spot on totally agree with you , why should we not expect VR to bankroll us ooops sorry is that racist , he is our owner his he not , why bother with a club if you dont want it to be challenging for honors on a regular basis whats the feckin point oops scuse my langauge , its all very well watching youths develope into fine players but if its just a commodity to sell for profit who benefits i would say not the fans , VR would be just aswell paying for his Agents licence and be done with it because at the end of the day thats all this is a glorified players supermarket , its got no soul no passion and no ambition but i wont give it up because its still hearts inside out and backto front but still hearts sorry about any typos and misplaced commas dont want the typo polis at my door ,, KNOCK KNOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vanbasten1874 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 KNOCK KNOCK Gulp who is it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Gulp who is it . Avon calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vanbasten1874 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Avon calling.[/quote Phew that was a close one ,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Irrespective of what people seem to think about our financial affairs (amazing how many people KNOW how much we need and when we need it btw) our finances will worsen if we fail to make Europe. If we don't need any money just now and everything is fine, what is the point in selling Berra? He is our captain, an important player, he is holding the team together and we value him at ?3 million but let him go for ?2.5 million. Why? If, as you think, we don't need the cash. Rational answers only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 If we don't need any money just now and everything is fine, what is the point in selling Berra? He is our captain, an important player, he is holding the team together and we value him at ?3 million but let him go for ?2.5 million. Why? If, as you think, we don't need the cash. Rational answers only. It could be because he "wanted to leave" as many on this thread have suggested. It could also be seen as a rational business move, sell a valuable player to re-invest in the team. As for the value, surely you know better than that? Our valuation may have been ?2.5 Million from the start and the quoted ?3 Million was merely a bargaining tool to get our ?2.5 Million. However, I don't know the answer, Hearts do not let me know about their reasons for selling players. I asked you yesterday, how much do Hearts need? Also, without posting quotes from other JKB posters, how do you know we needed to sell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 If we don't need any money just now and everything is fine, what is the point in selling Berra? He is our captain, an important player, he is holding the team together and we value him at ?3 million but let him go for ?2.5 million. Why? If, as you think, we don't need the cash. Rational answers only. Have things changed since we were told not to worry about the debt ? With our debt it is natural to think we need the money but we have had the debt from day one of VR's reign and now we need the money ? I am not saying I expect anything but are we entitled to think that our owner will bankroll us enough to stop the cheap sale of our captain ? I get the feeling we are entering a phase where the team is secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 one of the most consistent things about romanov is the way he insists that any player will be allowed to leave the club with his blessing in the event of the player stating his wish to go, along with the club being properly compensated. there is nothing new happening, there is no departure from that sensible approach. others will inevitably follow. driver and the likes of kingston and jonsson wont want to stay at hearts indefinitely and will also be allowed to leave if suitable offers are made. ?2.3M seems slightly on the cheap side to me but it's still pretty good for a young player who has yet to fully establish himself in the international set up. it could very well turn out to be the right move for the player but that remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 You?d like to think the club have a replacement lined up, but the fact that there was not a rush to sign our players (nor Rangers, for that matter) during this window dictates that 24 hrs is a short period in which to seal a deal. Ought we moan about this? Nope as we knew that it was a "Sell before we buy" window. I think we all have to rein in our expectations, and that applies to all other clubs?fans too. There is a tendency amongst football supporters towards short-termism. The fact is that the only way we can ever get back to competing for silverware is if the club grows organically and that means we?ll have to be a feeder club to bigger/wealthier clubs for a while, perhaps a reasonably long while. It really doesn?t help when people get all "Can we beat the OF?" after one good win/performance or "Mad Vlad out!!!" after a poor result/performance such as yesterday. Both the supreme optimists and the extreme pessimists are stupid reactionaries. As with many things, being in the middle of the spectrum, where the actual realists (rather than the self-proclaimed misery-guts "realists") are, is where we should all strive to be... 2.3Mill is still more than we have ever got for a defender...Alan McLaren and Gary Naysmith were both more promising talents than Berra IMHO, but we got less for them (admittedly inflation makes this debateable). What is indisputable is that we?ve had some very handy CBs leave for little or nothing over the years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 You?d like to think the club have a replacement lined up, but the fact that there was not a rush to sign our players (nor Rangers, for that matter) during this window dictates that 24 hrs is a short period in which to seal a deal. Ought we moan about this? Nope as we knew that it was a "Sell before we buy" window. I think we all have to rein in our expectations, and that applies to all other clubs?fans too. There is a tendency amongst football supporters towards short-termism. The fact is that the only way we can ever get back to competing for silverware is if the club grows organically and that means we?ll have to be a feeder club to bigger/wealthier clubs for a while, perhaps a reasonably long while. It really doesn?t help when people get all "Can we beat the OF?" after one good win/performance or "Mad Vlad out!!!" after a poor result/performance such as yesterday. Both the supreme optimists and the extreme pessimists are stupid reactionaries. As with many things, being in the middle of the spectrum, where the actual realists (rather than the self-proclaimed misery-guts "realists") are, is where we should all strive to be... excellent analysis. as a collective, hearts fans are bi-polar. the mood swings are frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Stinkfinger Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 excellent analysis. as a collective, hearts fans are bi-polar. the mood swings are frightening. Wow. You come on here for a bit of debate and banter to find some auld geezer waffling on about the antartic and the female variety ! Anyhoo................have we signed a striker yet ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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