Gerd Muller Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Stranraer future 50/50 says chairman I don't think they will be the only club in Britain to struggle. Forfar, on the other hand, player Stranraer in December to then play Forres Mecanics now get a glamour tie in the cup and can clear all there debts. Stranraer bottom of the 2nd Division, heading for the Third Division, heading like Third Lanark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Scottish football has far too many clubs for it to be sustainable though. A population of c.5.5m and 40 league sides, not to mention senior & junior sides. Whilst it is a shame, it is not a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Why don't the SFA give them a slice of their Hearts 'Windfall' ( AKA the outrageous fines imposed on us as a result of Refereeing ineptitude ) Surely the GFA didn't 'budget' for that so why not release some of it ! In reality of course there will be many small clubs in the same boat and such payments would only be a drop in the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc_steve Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Scottish football has far too many clubs for it to be sustainable though. A population of c.5.5m and 40 league sides, not to mention senior & junior sides. Whilst it is a shame, it is not a surprise. Think many of us have either recognised that or been saying it for a number of years. Scotland can only support 2 professional leagues, and we're struggling even at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Hardcastle Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Such a different situation down south. Local people tend to support their lcoal teams. Fair enough they come out more in numbers for fa cup ties but they still seem to get decent crowds at non league level. Up here people tend to support the old firm ahead of local teams. Can see a few teams falling over the next season or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samster Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Scottish football has far too many clubs for it to be sustainable though. A population of c.5.5m and 40 league sides, not to mention senior & junior sides. Whilst it is a shame, it is not a surprise. I've often thought we should have 2 main leagues (larger numbers) and then regionalise the rest of the teams with some sort of play-off system to get into the main leagues. Not really thought it all through but there has to be a better and more sustainable model we could use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The SFA/SFL had tha chance to completely overhaul the leagues and make them slimmer and more efficient in recent years when Airdrie and Gretna went teets up. Both times they pressed the 'Duh' button and promoted other clubs up into the football league - one of which was bloody Gretna!! Talk about not learning your lessons. This basically sums up the running of Scottish football in a oner. Inefficient, run by clueless idiots and unwilling to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonraker Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I've often thought we should have 2 main leagues (larger numbers) and then regionalise the rest of the teams with some sort of play-off system to get into the main leagues. Not really thought it all through but there has to be a better and more sustainable model we could use. I think a pyramid system would be the way to go. ( No.....not like the Hearts, Kaunas, Ripo Minsk one) There will be resistance by some clubs and it will cause turmoil in the short term but it gives clubs the opportunity to find their natural level. It also give clubs who can raise the funds and have some ambition. (Spartans etc) to invest in their own particular route to achieving those ambitions. The English system was not universally supported in the introductory phase but has allowed a number of Clubs such as Yeovil to play at a level that reflects the scale of their support. In Scotland clubs that are little more than "village teams" enjoy league status at the expense of clubs with bigger fanbases and more ambition. These "village teams" feel no need to improve as they are feather bedded by the archaic structure. I can imagine games between current teams such as Spartans and Whitehill and the big Junior clubs and Highland League clubs being much more competitive and enjoyable for fans than what is now on offer. Hopefully this would make the increased travel costs bearable and seem like an investment worth making in order to progress up the pyramid. Clubs who did not have the support or the finance would remain at the regional level and players could still enjoy a guid kickaboot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I dont know if Engerland maybe suffers from exactly the same problems but just the sheer numbers of fans involved manages to sustain it ? Do you get buses leaving sheffield or Nottingham heading for Old Trafford ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I've been saying this for years but the only workable solution for Scottish Football is a complete revamp of the structure including the following: - A Pyramid system incorporating all Highland, Junior, Senior etc teams into the set up. - A 16 team SPL with a winter break (Jan) - A 16 team SFL league with a winter break (Jan) - A regionalised pyramid structure for the remaining teams and leagues. The advantages of this are the top two leagues will play 30 league games a season, leaving enough time to incoporate a winter break thus drastically reducing the number of games called off and eliminating fixture congestion at the end of a season (Rangers situation last season). The reduced number of games and mid season break should reduce demands on players and hopefully lead to a better standard of football. A 16 team league should also reduce the pressure on sides that exists within the current congested 12 team split format and allow teams a bit of breathing space to blood youngsters. This in turn should bring benefits to our national team. Further down a regionalised pyramid set up should make the leages far more competitve with the introduction of junior/senior/highland teams. Clubs will also save costs by having a reduction in travel costs (no Elgin v Stranraer scenario) and a greater number of local derbys should increase gate receipts. There is also the possiblity of having an end of season showpiece event for the lower leagues with the winners of the regional leagues having a play off style format (perhaps played over a weekend at Hampden) for the right to enter the SFL league. Your thoughts please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I've often thought we should have 2 main leagues (larger numbers) and then regionalise the rest of the teams with some sort of play-off system to get into the main leagues. Not really thought it all through but there has to be a better and more sustainable model we could use. Singing from the same hymn sheet i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Fredrickson Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Listened to an interview with the Stranraer chariman on Radio Scotland last night and he said their debt was ?250k, the same as their annual wage bill!!!!! For a part time low league club the wages they are paying must be outrageous - works out at approx ?4810 a week but part time clubs only pay wages for 40 weeks (source Des McKeown) so that makes it ?6250 a week. If these figures are true then they only have themselves to blame - they are paying for their time in the 1st Division which seems a long time ago now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I don't think there are too many clubs in Scotland but the clubs need to be run better and live within their means. Stranraer have a ground to upkeep that holds 5,500 but only bring in crowds of 200 to 300, that does not make sense and it is the same all over. Some SPL teams are just as bad, Killie have a ground that holds 18,000 and they rarely have crowds over 6,000. Stranraer can sell their ground, rent a park from the council and build a wee stand that holds 1,000 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Scottish football has far too many clubs for it to be sustainable though. A population of c.5.5m and 40 league sides, not to mention senior & junior sides. Whilst it is a shame, it is not a surprise. Contrast it with the situation in England where a population about 10times bigger supports a pyramid league system which numbers around 7,000 clubs The top 8 levels of the English pyramid contain about 360 clubs an amount roughly proportionate with the 40 Scottish League sides. Level 8 of the English League consists of 6 leagues Northern Premier League Division One North Northern Premier League Division One South Southern Football League Division One Midlands Southern Football League Division One South & West Isthmian League Division One North Isthmian League Division One South Stranraer's Average 2007/08 attendance of 255 would be seen as healthy but not unusual at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo83 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I dont know if Engerland maybe suffers from exactly the same problems but just the sheer numbers of fans involved manages to sustain it ?Do you get buses leaving sheffield or Nottingham heading for Old Trafford ?? I bet there's tens of buses leave from London, never mind Nottingham or Sheffield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I don't think there are too many clubs in Scotland but the clubs need to be run better and live within their means. Stranraer have a ground to upkeep that holds 5,500 but only bring in crowds of 200 to 300, that does not make sense and it is the same all over. Some SPL teams are just as bad, Killie have a ground that holds 18,000 and they rarely have crowds over 6,000. Stranraer can sell their ground, rent a park from the council and build a wee stand that holds 1,000 or so. There's no way Rugby Park holds 18,000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Harris Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (source Des McKeown) shang-a-lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboJen Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Listened to an interview with the Stranraer chariman on Radio Scotland last night and he said their debt was ?250k, the same as their annual wage bill!!!!! For a part time low league club the wages they are paying must be outrageous - works out at approx ?4810 a week but part time clubs only pay wages for 40 weeks (source Des McKeown) so that makes it ?6250 a week. If these figures are true then they only have themselves to blame - they are paying for their time in the 1st Division which seems a long time ago now. After the SC draw there was an interview in one of the papers with Forfar's chairman. He said their wage bill etc was ?200k/year but their total income including ticket sales was about ?80-90k/year! People think we're run badly but that's just ludicrous(sp) IMO. They're basically gambling on getting some kind of lucrative cup tie or presumably pre-season friendly or they'll pretty much go to the wall. They currently have about ?150k of debt I think he said. Absolute madness to even let wages etc get that bad when you have no real way of addressing the bills. At least we've always got couple of players we can move on and are now dealing with the mistakes of 05/06. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 There's no way Rugby Park holds 18,000! 29 March 1997: Scotland 2 ? 0 Estonia , Attendance 17996 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 After the SC draw there was an interview in one of the papers with Forfar's chairman. He said their wage bill etc was ?200k/year but their total income including ticket sales was about ?80-90k/year! People think we're run badly but that's just ludicrous(sp) IMO. They're basically gambling on getting some kind of lucrative cup tie or presumably pre-season friendly or they'll pretty much go to the wall. They currently have about ?150k of debt I think he said. Absolute madness to even let wages etc get that bad when you have no real way of addressing the bills. At least we've always got couple of players we can move on and are now dealing with the mistakes of 05/06. It must be hard for these teams to 'give it up' though JJ Ok they are probably living in denial, hoping that a solution will just 'pop up' some day soon ? However you have to put yourself in their shoes and perhaps think 'there but for the grace of God go I' We are just lucky that we live in a city that can support one and a 1/2 premier sides ...............imagine living in Methil or Airdrie ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboJen Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 It must be hard for these teams to 'give it up' though JJOk they are probably living in denial, hoping that a solution will just 'pop up' some day soon ? However you have to put yourself in their shoes and perhaps think 'there but for the grace of God go I' We are just lucky that we live in a city that can support one and a 1/2 premier sides ...............imagine living in Methil or Airdrie ? Don't think the quality of our football teams would be my main worry if I lived in Methil or Airdrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Don't think the quality of our football teams would be my main worry if I lived in Methil or Airdrie But imagine the knock on effect to the economy If there is no fitbah to attend on the Saturday then when are the Neds supposed to come over and Tan your empty hoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I've been saying this for years but the only workable solution for Scottish Football is a complete revamp of the structure including the following: - A Pyramid system incorporating all Highland, Junior, Senior etc teams into the set up. - A 16 team SPL with a winter break (Jan) - A 16 team SFL league with a winter break (Jan) - A regionalised pyramid structure for the remaining teams and leagues. The advantages of this are the top two leagues will play 30 league games a season, leaving enough time to incoporate a winter break thus drastically reducing the number of games called off and eliminating fixture congestion at the end of a season (Rangers situation last season). The reduced number of games and mid season break should reduce demands on players and hopefully lead to a better standard of football. A 16 team league should also reduce the pressure on sides that exists within the current congested 12 team split format and allow teams a bit of breathing space to blood youngsters. This in turn should bring benefits to our national team. Further down a regionalised pyramid set up should make the leages far more competitve with the introduction of junior/senior/highland teams. Clubs will also save costs by having a reduction in travel costs (no Elgin v Stranraer scenario) and a greater number of local derbys should increase gate receipts. There is also the possiblity of having an end of season showpiece event for the lower leagues with the winners of the regional leagues having a play off style format (perhaps played over a weekend at Hampden) for the right to enter the SFL league. Your thoughts please. A very sensible idea there and one that should be implemented. Clubs in the lower leagues (below first division) have a comfortable situation where you may move down into third but you cant do any worse. It must of been infuriating to be a succesful side like Annan, Spartans etc and seeing East Sterlingshire finishing bottom for soo many years. Pyramid systems rejouvenate the league, it clears the teams that dont preform and brings in ones that do. As someone else said, it rewards the teams that take the initive so for instince, invest in a major youth program, invest in better facilities, go for a bigger fan base. Look what hoffenheim have done in Germany, they may of had major investment but they haven't done that on buying huge expensive players but investment in youth and an ethic based on that, also with trying to gain a fan base in the area around. This allowed them to go up from the 5th tier of German football to the bundislege. Gretna were a similar case but they did it purely on the buying of big players not developing a club to sustain at a higher level. A winter break would benefit all, it would benefit the SFL/SPL2 league (whatever they end up calling it) as most of those clubs will normally have problems with the weather, and the it would give a rest that some players need after playing for so long. Also if any players are brought in it gives them time to adjust to the club before playing rather than pushed straight into the team and suffering abuse from fans. The winter break can be used for Scottish cup games but it can also be used for small competitions such as prehaps a weekend of futsol or five a side like in seasons past. Two competitions, one for seniors, one for U20s. There is so much that can be done to shake up Scottish football, this should be the first thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheiky Baby Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hopefully they do fold to get Spartans in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.