Bruno to head mass exit/ TFM Rant!

[The Future's Maroon]

BRUNO AGUIAR has admitted he could head a clear-out at cash-starved Hearts.

 

 

 

SunSport revealed last week that QPR are keen on the in-form Portuguese midfielder.

 

Now La Liga outfit Getafe and Swansea have joined the hunt for the SPL Player of the Month.

 

And Aguiar, 27, has revealed he would love to test himself down south or in Spain.

 

He said: “I am back to my best physically and want to play for many more years.

 

“Like any player, I would like to play in a country like England or Spain. They are my favourite leagues.

 

“I can’t say too much about QPR. I know their coach, Paulo Sousa, but he hasn’t spoken to me since he came to England.

 

“I hope to decide my future in May when my Hearts contract ends.

 

“I’m happy at Hearts but, like any professional, I must consider my career.

 

“If I do leave Hearts, though, it will be done with sadness as I’ve had good times here.”

 

The clear-out will start when the transfer window opens.

 

Captain Christophe Berra, Andy Driver and Uganda international David Obua could also be sold. Left-back Lee Wallace is another asset who could go, while English clubs are after Laryea Kingston.

 

And Marius Zaliukas has also been targeted by two Moscow clubs.

 

Hearts are desperate for cash after Vladimir Romanov was hit by the credit crunch

 

Wages have arrived late and Csaba Laszlo’s stars are still awaiting win bonuses.

 

A long list of angry creditors are also pressing the club to settle unpaid off-field bills.

 

Meanwhile, Falkirk’s hopes of signing keeper Steve Banks are slim.

 

SunSport understands Banks, currently coaching Hearts’ youth keepers, will stay beyond the January window.

 

 

 

 

 

1. I personally can understand Bruno's quotes, and no-one can blame him, although maybe a little loyalty should be due here due to his long term injury that Hearts/Vlad have stuck by him through this last 18 months. But given the fact he has easily been our best player over the last 5/6 weeks since he came back from his horrible injury spell why has he not been offered an new deal (I heard rumours one is coming in the next week or two).

 

But of course the press are going to make out we are skint due to the silly non-payment of bills/Arbroath (quite rightly too TBH)

 

2. Its been mentioned so many times before and most of us will take it with a pinch of salt at the moment, but this bad press is also being brought on by the club themselves (see comment regarding bills above)......but comments like

 

The clear-out will start when the transfer window opens.

 

How do they know that? Just making a story out of nothing really.....the press - just as much as us fans - no jack **** about Hearts accounts, but yet the still assume they do.

 

3.

 

Hearts are desperate for cash after Vladimir Romanov was hit by the credit crunch.

 

Are we really? If you take into account the dosh from transfers in the last finacial year which have still to be taken into account and the ?12m share issue thingy personally I'd actually put that Hearts at a lower debt level than when Vlad took over? Was it not announced in the last week or so that UKIO were actually one of the very few banks in the WORLD to post a profit during the economic credit crunch?

 

4. OK, so what if we do sell the named players - Berra, Zal, Wallace, Driver, Larry, Obua and others (plus dropping a few others off the wage bill - Miko, Chesney, Kello - (if we are even paying their wages), Banks, Clum etc )(I've heard of a couple of Championship teams are even looking at Nade) - Where exactly would this 'unsustainable' debt lie then...I am no accountant, but if those players were to leave along with their wages and youth players brought in through the ranks which we know are there although not tested yet, they are there.....I'd make us actually probably in PROFIT....you know in the black, not the red.......what would everyone say to that - especially the press?

 

 

some may agree....many will pick holes in my post - I dont give a ****, I have thought about this the last couple of days and think I actually have a valid point.

 

 

(sorry for any speeling or grammar errors before anyone starts! lol)

 

 

Regards!

TFM

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

The Future's Maroon

[JamboLad]

Why read the sun....

[shaun.lawson]

Comments in bold:

 

1. But given the fact he has easily been our best player over the last 5/6 weeks since he came back from his horrible injury spell why has he not been offered an new deal (I heard rumours one is coming in the next week or two).

 

Because we simply can't afford to.

 

But of course the press are going to make out we are skint due to the silly non-payment of bills/Arbroath (quite rightly too TBH)

 

We are skint mate - there's no two ways about it.

 

2. How do they know that? Just making a story out of nothing really.....the press - just as much as us fans - no jack **** about Hearts accounts, but yet the still assume they do.

 

I agree with you here. There's no way they can know this, so are being mischievous and stirring the **** - albeit, I think there's a strong likelihood they'll be proven right.

 

3. Are we really? If you take into account the dosh from transfers in the last finacial year which have still to be taken into account and the ?12m share issue thingy personally I'd actually put that Hearts at a lower debt level than when Vlad took over? Was it not announced in the last week or so that UKIO were actually one of the very few banks in the WORLD to post a profit during the economic credit crunch?

 

Remains to be seen. You could be right - but we won't know until the accounts are published. ?28m is my (admittedly pessimistic) prediction.

 

4. OK, so what if we do sell the named players - Berra, Zal, Wallace, Driver, Larry, Obua and others (plus dropping a few others off the wage bill - Miko, Chesney, Kello - (if we are even paying their wages), Banks, Clum etc )(I've heard of a couple of Championship teams are even looking at Nade) - Where exactly would this 'unsustainable' debt lie then...I am no accountant, but if those players were to leave along with their wages and youth players brought in through the ranks which we know are there although not tested yet, they are there.....I'd make us actually probably in PROFIT....you know in the black, not the red.......what would everyone say to that - especially the press?

 

I have no clue where your sums are on this at all. The best case scenario for the debt is around ?20m at July 31 '08 - and we're hardly going to rake in ?20m in sales, are we?! ?8m is about as well as we could possibly do - and you're forgetting that since July, we'll still have been losing money. If my guess of ?28m turns out to be accurate, it'd follow that we might well have lost ?1m/month since (the rate we were losing at in 06/7, which the last accounts covered). That'd mean a debt of ?32m now - and one of around ?25m once the players had been sold. All that is purely speculative, though: the accounts will tell the story.

 

 

Regards!

TFM

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

The Future's Maroon

[The Future's Maroon]

Why read the sun....

I expected to get a few people who did not agree with what I said - but such a constructive post like that reminds me why I dont bother posting on here?

[Manny1874]

“I hope to decide my future in May when my Hearts contract ends.

 

Id hope that Bruno would show us a bit of loyalty that the club has shown him and atleast let us get a transfer fee for him. If he leaves for free that would be a massive kick in the teeth for the club.

[redm]

"I hope to decide my future in May when my Hearts contract ends."

 

That's the only bit that could concern me...he's either angling for a whack of a pay rise and a new contract, or he's made his mind up that he wants to head South....or...if you take the words 'hope to' out and switch it around with things like 'will' or 'can' or tons of other things, it's not quite as depressing.

 

Not that I'm suggesting the Sun would make wee errors like that to suit their story, of course....

 

Basically I'll wait and see what he's reported to have said elsewhere.

[The Future's Maroon]

Fair points Shaun/JamboAls/Redm, thanks for decent replies!!

[JamboLad]

Its already been discussed. The sun have just nicked it from http://www.portugoal.net/PortAbroad0809/200812091-Aguiar-Quaresma.htm

 

Which has already been discussed

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37126

 

So now we have the joys of discussing the suns spin on it.

 

Quality

[The Don]

Sean

 

If were sitting at 28million or more come the next set of accounts i will be extremely disapointed and so will many others, and serious questions have to be asked and answers given.

 

I posted yesterday some very crude figures based on what we DO KNOW not what we speculate on and in doing so came out with a figure of approx 19million. So we could give or take a little either way but certainly not 9million above that.

[The Future's Maroon]

Shaun -

 

I have no clue where your sums are on this at all

 

I am only goin with the thoughts that Vlad wont accept any mince offers for players...so you 'might' get something along the lines (if the press are to believed)

 

Berra - ?1m-?2/3m

Driver - ?2m-?3m

Wallace - ?2m/?3m

Larry - ?2m/?3m

Zal - ?1m/?2m

Jose - ?1m-?2m

Obua - ?500k/?2m

 

Yes the above are optimisic values, many just quoted from the press.......but we seen from sales of Hartley/Bednar/Gordon that Vlad wont sell players on the cheap like the old days...IF we get those amounts is a completly different story of course!

[shaun.lawson]

Sean

 

If were sitting at 28million or more come the next set of accounts i will be extremely disapointed and so will many others, and serious questions have to be asked and answers given.

 

I posted yesterday some very crude figures based on what we DO KNOW not what we speculate on and in doing so came out with a figure of approx 19million. So we could give or take a little either way but certainly not 9million above that.

 

Could you find that post and link to it?

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun -

 

I have no clue where your sums are on this at all

 

I am only goin with the thoughts that Vlad wont accept any mince offers for players...so you 'might' get something along the lines (if the press are to believed)

 

Berra - ?1m-?4/5m

Driver - ?2m-?3m

Wallace - ?2m/?3m

Larry - ?2m/?3m

Zal - ?1m/?2m

Jose - ?1m-?2m

Obua - ?500k/?2m

 

Yes the above are optimisic values, many just quoted from the press.......but we seen from sales of Hartley/Bednar/Gordon that Vlad wont sell players on the cheap like the old days...IF we get those amounts is a completly different story of course!

 

If they're all sold in one go mate, it's a firesale. It is not possible to get the most optimistic valuation in that scenario - because buyers will know we're hard up, so won't offer enough. I can't see the players you've mentioned fetching more than ?10m in total (I've added ?2m because of Goncalves' inclusion) - but that's all presupposing we'll find buyers, which will be a lot easier said than done in this financial climate.

[The Future's Maroon]

If they're all sold in one go mate, it's a firesale. It is not possible to get the most optimistic valuation in that scenario - because buyers will know we're hard up, so won't offer enough. I can't see the players you've mentioned fetching more than ?10m in total (I've added ?2m because of Goncalves' inclusion) - but that's all presupposing we'll find buyers, which will be a lot easier said than done in this financial climate.

I know what your saying mate, but in the past Vlad/Hearts have proven they wont take donkey bids....I am just thinking if its true all these clubs ae interested in our better players and they were all to go we could fetch in a fair amount.....IF that was to happen is a different story altogether - personally I'd like to see every one of them stay!

[shaun.lawson]

I know what your saying mate, but in the past Vlad/Hearts have proven they wont take donkey bids....I am just thinking if its true all these clubs ae interested in our better players and they were all to go we could fetch in a fair amount.....IF that was to happen is a different story altogether - personally I'd like to see every one of them stay!

 

You and I both!

[The Future's Maroon]

Is that something someone agree's with me on!!!

 

 

OK, bed time.....no doubt when I get up the morn (day off work too) I expect more folk to shoot me down in flames!! lol

[The Don]

Could you find that post and link to it?

 

Wasn't that far away was on the "Last throw of the dice" thread but here it is

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37117&page=2

 

I don't think I have been too generous with any figures in that and as it says I have left room for a give or take by as much as 3 million, but still way way off your prediction of 28million +

[shaun.lawson]

Wasn't that far away was on the "Last throw of the dice" thread but here it is

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37117&page=2

 

I don't think I have been too generous with any figures in that and as it says I have left room for a give or take by as much as 3 million, but still way way off your prediction of 28million +

 

Truth is, we're both guessing. However, we only got ?7m of the Gordon money up front, so that's immediately ?21m by your reckoning - and we actually don't know if the Bednar money is being paid in instalments or not. I also think your estimate of a ?6m loss without player sales is very optimistic: ?8-?9m is closer to what most suspect. And suddenly we're in the mid-20s, before any further mystery registration fees are siphoned off to UBIG/Kaunas. If they were once, why wouldn't they be so again?

 

The only reason I've predicted ?28m is the club website's detailing of the debt for equity swap in July. It quoted a 30% reduction in our debt figure, and ?12m to be converted in total. But ?12m is 30% of ?40m - our overdraft limit with UBIG. Given the swap was announced at the latest possible moment for an EGM to be called and take place within the 07/8 financial year (the EGM was held on July 31), that UBIG were due to repay Ukio a substantial loan (of I think ?12m, but I need to check that), and given all our cashflow problems since... well, that's why I'm so pessimistic about this. It's literally impossible for the figure following the conversion to have been more than ?28m - but that's what I'm going for.

 

Bear in mind too that even with around ?9m in for Gordon and Bednar and ?12m for the swap, it's not that far fetched for a club run as incompetently as ours to have kept losing money at the rate it was in 06/7. Certainly, even now, ten of our players are clearly being paid way too much. It'll depend in part on whether there's a repeat of the missing ?3.85m, and as I said, we're both guessing: I just hope yours is a lot more accurate than mine.

[Craig_]

Truth is, we're both guessing. However, we only got ?7m of the Gordon money up front, so that's immediately ?21m by your reckoning - and we actually don't know if the Bednar money is being paid in instalments or not. I also think your estimate of a ?6m loss without player sales is very optimistic: ?8-?9m is closer to what most suspect. And suddenly we're in the mid-20s, before any further mystery registration fees are siphoned off to UBIG/Kaunas. If they were once, why wouldn't they be so again?

 

The only reason I've predicted ?28m is the club website's detailing of the debt for equity swap in July. It quoted a 30% reduction in our debt figure, and ?12m to be converted in total. But ?12m is 30% of ?40m - our overdraft limit with UBIG. Given the swap was announced at the latest possible moment for an EGM to be called and take place within the 07/8 financial year (the EGM was held on July 31), that UBIG were due to repay Ukio a substantial loan (of I think ?12m, but I need to check that), and given all our cashflow problems since... well, that's why I'm so pessimistic about this. It's literally impossible for the figure following the conversion to have been more than ?28m - but that's what I'm going for.

 

Bear in mind too that even with around ?9m in for Gordon and Bednar and ?12m for the swap, it's not that far fetched for a club run as incompetently as ours to have kept losing money at the rate it was in 06/7. Certainly, even now, ten of our players are clearly being paid way too much. It'll depend in part on whether there's a repeat of the missing ?3.85m, and as I said, we're both guessing: I just hope yours is a lot more accurate than mine.

 

Shaun mate, as someone who's just finished their PhD whilst indulging in far too much Kickback for one's own good, shouldn't you switch off from the Hearts a wee bit and concentrate on your studies?

 

No offence meant, by the way!

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun mate, as someone who's just finished their PhD whilst indulging in far too much Kickback for one's own good, shouldn't you switch off from the Hearts a wee bit and concentrate on your studies?

 

No offence meant, by the way!

 

None taken: it's a very good point, and one I need to act on pronto!

[Craig_]

None taken: it's a very good point, and one I need to act on pronto!

 

Trust me, the time taken between thinking you're finished, and actually handing the thing in can seem like a lifetime! Good luck mate.

[The Don]

Truth is, we're both guessing. However, we only got ?7m of the Gordon money up front, so that's immediately ?21m by your reckoning - and we actually don't know if the Bednar money is being paid in instalments or not. I also think your estimate of a ?6m loss without player sales is very optimistic: ?8-?9m is closer to what most suspect. And suddenly we're in the mid-20s, before any further mystery registration fees are siphoned off to UBIG/Kaunas. If they were once, why wouldn't they be so again?

 

The only reason I've predicted ?28m is the club website's detailing of the debt for equity swap in July. It quoted a 30% reduction in our debt figure, and ?12m to be converted in total. But ?12m is 30% of ?40m - our overdraft limit with UBIG. Given the swap was announced at the latest possible moment for an EGM to be called and take place within the 07/8 financial year (the EGM was held on July 31), that UBIG were due to repay Ukio a substantial loan (of I think ?12m, but I need to check that), and given all our cashflow problems since... well, that's why I'm so pessimistic about this. It's literally impossible for the figure following the conversion to have been more than ?28m - but that's what I'm going for.

 

Bear in mind too that even with around ?9m in for Gordon and Bednar and ?12m for the swap, it's not that far fetched for a club run as incompetently as ours to have kept losing money at the rate it was in 06/7. Certainly, even now, ten of our players are clearly being paid way too much. It'll depend in part on whether there's a repeat of the missing ?3.85m, and as I said, we're both guessing: I just hope yours is a lot more accurate than mine.

 

Would seem plausible, there are other factors i took into consideration which i didnt go into in detail. PLayer wages have also reduced, yes they are still high, but for the last year our biggest earner has not been with us CG. On the last set of figures there was onviously his and other highearner wages on there which are no longer and havent been for some time.

 

I do agree this 3.85million is being brandished about, And ill be honest if a figure anywhere near that amount appears on the next set of accounts then something is amiss. They tols us layer registrations? ok some have tried to explain we did bring in many players via Kaunas etc, and loan deals, This is not wages though and should not be taken as wages, and since the last set of accounts we have brought in no-where near the volume of players and certainly not the same in value as those previously. I just do not see how a repeat of that figure could be justified. I did however compensate in my figures for some amount towards "Player registrations"

[Ryan Gosling]

Bednar's deal was ?500k up front for the loan and ?1.8m for the transfer was it not?

 

Also, when Hearts did the share issue would they not have been using the debt as it was in the last published account?

[Heaven98]

None taken: it's a very good point, and one I need to act on pronto!

 

He's got a point, mate.

 

As to the OP, I'm sorry chap but we're undoubtedly in a massive pile of sh*t. How anyone can reasonably doubt that now is beyond me.

[benny]

Bednar's deal was ?500k up front for the loan and ?1.8m for the transfer was it not?

 

Also, when Hearts did the share issue would they not have been using the debt as it was in the last published account?

 

 

Here's hoping that the credit crunch doesn't hit transfer fees to badly then.Over 2 million for Bednar is now the yardstick for all Hearts transfers from now on.

[David McCaig]

As I have said on various threads the actual debt to UBIG is fairly irrelevant.

 

It is just one part of UBIG owing money to another part of the same overall company.

 

The important thing is that HMFC as a standalone entity start trading at a profit. If we can get the wage bill down to ?4/5M and manage to keep turnover at the ?10M mark its hard out to see how we can be anything other than profitable.

 

In a worst case scenario we could probably drop the wage bill to ?2M and still comfortably survive in the SPL. Is ICTs wage bill not circa the ?1M mark.

 

With regards to the registration fees, whilst Roman Romanov is undoubtedly an A Grade Plum, the fees would appear to coincide with the likes of Bednar, Aguair, Goncalves having their contracts transferred from Kaunas to HMFC.

 

Even if one went with the conspiracy theory, what would VR actually gain???? Why not say registration fees were ?50M, the debt is still one part of UBIG owing money to another part of UBIG. When the time comes for Hearts to be sold we will sold for the price someone is prepared and Vlad is prepared to accept.

[Jocam2325]

Can somebody please clear something up for me. I clearly have my players mixed up. I thought Obua was the tall black guy with the green boots, pipe cleaner legs and apparently absolutely no idea of what being an effective player involves. Given the estimated/speculated/prayed for valuations of our playing squad, I now realise I've been watching the wrong player. Which one is Obua then.

[Francis Albert]

There is nothing new in the Sun story. On the Bruno situation, he has just returned after 18 months out, on high wages and expensive medical bils. If Hearts were to rush to offer him a new contract and he was to break down in the next few games and be out for another 18 months JKB would be full of stuff about Vlad/Hearts financial insanity. I can see nothing to be gained by Hearts rushing to make Bruno a new offer.

[jambovambo]

Serious question - since Vlad arrived ... does anyone know of a Hearts player who asked for, and got, an improved contract, who then saw much of that contract out ?

 

Webster - offered it, didn't accept, sidelined

 

Gordon - offered improved contract, took it, but is widely acknowledged to have done that for the good of his beloved Hearts, knowing full well he would be sold

 

Brellier - wanted one, didn't get it

 

I'm sure there are more.

 

Please don't get into Webster GTF / Brellier was useless stuff ... just answer the question ?

 

My memory suggests the only better contracts have been to players who were then sold.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

As I have said on various threads the actual debt to UBIG is fairly irrelevant.

 

It is just one part of UBIG owing money to another part of the same overall company.

 

The important thing is that HMFC as a standalone entity start trading at a profit. If we can get the wage bill down to ?4/5M and manage to keep turnover at the ?10M mark its hard out to see how we can be anything other than profitable.

 

In a worst case scenario we could probably drop the wage bill to ?2M and still comfortably survive in the SPL. Is ICTs wage bill not circa the ?1M mark.

 

With regards to the registration fees, whilst Roman Romanov is undoubtedly an A Grade Plum, the fees would appear to coincide with the likes of Bednar, Aguair, Goncalves having their contracts transferred from Kaunas to HMFC.

 

Even if one went with the conspiracy theory, what would VR actually gain???? Why not say registration fees were ?50M, the debt is still one part of UBIG owing money to another part of UBIG. When the time comes for Hearts to be sold we will sold for the price someone is prepared and Vlad is prepared to accept.

I have just one question for you.

 

Is beetroot soup served hot, or do the Romanov's serve it cold, like some sort of Russian "gazpacho"? I've always wondered.

[Rudolf]

Serious question - since Vlad arrived ... does anyone know of a Hearts player who asked for, and got, an improved contract, who then saw much of that contract out ?

 

Webster - offered it, didn't accept, sidelined

 

Gordon - offered improved contract, took it, but is widely acknowledged to have done that for the good of his beloved Hearts, knowing full well he would be sold

 

Brellier - wanted one, didn't get it

 

I'm sure there are more.

 

Please don't get into Webster GTF / Brellier was useless stuff ... just answer the question ?

 

My memory suggests the only better contracts have been to players who were then sold.

 

Hartley - After he signed we got the benefit of his best ever season and received ?1.2M for him when we were on the verge of accepting ?200K from Celtic in the January window before he signed his new deal. My point is although he was sold we did get a good season (his best ever imo) out of him.

[jambovambo]

Hartley - After he signed we got the benefit of his best ever season and received ?1.2M for him when we were on the verge of accepting ?200K from Celtic in the January window before he signed his new deal. My point is although he was sold we did get a good season (his best ever imo) out of him.

 

I'll give you that one.

 

So ... that's one.

 

Was it an "improved" deal?

[Coco]

As I have said on various threads the actual debt to UBIG is fairly irrelevant.

 

It is just one part of UBIG owing money to another part of the same overall company.

 

The important thing is that HMFC as a standalone entity start trading at a profit. If we can get the wage bill down to ?4/5M and manage to keep turnover at the ?10M mark its hard out to see how we can be anything other than profitable.

 

In a worst case scenario we could probably drop the wage bill to ?2M and still comfortably survive in the SPL. Is ICTs wage bill not circa the ?1M mark.

 

With regards to the registration fees, whilst Roman Romanov is undoubtedly an A Grade Plum, the fees would appear to coincide with the likes of Bednar, Aguair, Goncalves having their contracts transferred from Kaunas to HMFC.

 

Even if one went with the conspiracy theory, what would VR actually gain???? Why not say registration fees were ?50M, the debt is still one part of UBIG owing money to another part of UBIG. When the time comes for Hearts to be sold we will sold for the price someone is prepared and Vlad is prepared to accept.

 

I hadn't heard the 'there is no debt as UBIG owes it to itself' suggestion for a while.

 

[Francis Albert]

Which one is Obua then.

 

Obua is the one rated by Csaba Laslo, who has seen him in more than a few substitute appearances. Csaba is the manager who has just led a team of useless no hopers (bottom six at best, possible relegation candidates etc, to quote JKB from just over six or seven weeks ago) to five straight wins.

[David McCaig]

I have just one question for you.

 

Is beetroot soup served hot, or do the Romanov's serve it cold, like some sort of Russian "gazpacho"? I've always wondered.

 

Not a huge fan of soup, just posting my own personal opinions.

 

The fact that I dont believe we will go bankrupt and dont believe that VR is on the take from a habitually loss making company, which is currently surviving on handouts from UBIG doesnt make me a VR apologist.

 

HMFC have been living beyond their means throughout my lifetime (34), if UBIG are no longer in a position to fund ou shortfall, then we need to cut our cloth accordingly. This is surely the case whether we remain under the UBIG umbrella or go our seperate ways.

 

My personal view is that the size of the debt owed to UBIG is irrelevant as it is one part of UBIG owing money to another. (Mr Arsebiscuit - what part of this statement do you disagree with?)

 

If UBIG go under HMFC would probably be sold for approx ?10m debt-free (Tynecastle + the name HMFC).

 

I do not feel that HMFC have anything to fear in the long term, my personal opinion is that the shareholders of UBIG have more right to feel shafted in the HMFC/UBIG marriage rather than ourselves.

[David McCaig]

I hadn't heard the 'there is no debt as UBIG owes it to itself' suggestion for a while.

 

 

Coco - would you not agree that it is financial incompetence on the part of UBIG to let our debt reach the levels it has.

 

In my opinion it was financial lunacy on the part of any organisation to let our debts grow greater than the value of the club. At the peak of the property boom we were worth ?20M.

 

If Tynecastle was put up for sale at a fixed price of ?10M would we necessarily find a buyer?

 

The debt is a horrendous thing for UBIG, but not necessarily a bad thing for HMFC - provided we can become self-sufficient, when the UBIG umbillical cord is eventually cut.

 

I am not defending UBIG, I think they have been financial idiots, I just happen to think that HMFC may well be the winners out of all of this.

[ford donald]

usually hot.romanovs fav!

[Mr Quagmire]

none of this is fact mate, its just bits and bobs taken from stories else where.

 

chill.

[Rudolf]

I'll give you that one.

 

So ... that's one.

 

Was it an "improved" deal?

 

Definately better that what he was on as he was signed by Levien when there was no money. Was it not rumoured to be about ?8k per week?

 

Did Elvis not get an improved contract as well as Robbie? Can't really remember.

[4marsbars]

Can somebody please clear something up for me. I clearly have my players mixed up. I thought Obua was the tall black guy with the green boots, pipe cleaner legs and apparently absolutely no idea of what being an effective player involves. Given the estimated/speculated/prayed for valuations of our playing squad, I now realise I've been watching the wrong player. Which one is Obua then.

 

While some Hearts fans might recognise your caricature of Obua, I think that the Obua we might sell is the one that was Kaiser Chiefs' Player of the Year, and who came close to, but did not win, the South African Player of the Year, and is rated highly by our manager (that's the five wins in a row guy).

 

That Obua is a player, and if you have not managed to spot that in the few appearances he has made, then you'll be surprised at what he goes on to achieve.

 

He has struggled to adapt to the Scottish style of play, and doesn't seem to have responded well to the encouragement he's had from our fans, but that does not make him a bad player.

 

Only my opinion.

 

Yes, the boots were a mistake but maybe they were a good fit and he felt comfortable in them.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Fair points Shaun/JamboAls/Redm, thanks for decent replies!!

 

 

 

I think the key point about Aguiar is that he knows himself his future here is uncertain, due to the financial situation and his contract ending - and also that he is too talented to remain in the SPL for the rest of his career.

 

If he leaves in January, I fully expect it not to be his choice. Whether any move he makes is in his interests (either financially or in terms of career development) is a side issue. I personally think he'd gladly be loyal to the club, but may not be given that option.

[Victorian]

i'll also be waiting to actually see the figures within the 31/7/08 accounts before applying the first incision to my wrists with the razor blade.

 

wouldn't want to trouble the good people of the A&E department without due cause after all, they probably have their hands full with plenty already by the looks of things.

[tynie]

1. I personally can understand Bruno's quotes, and no-one can blame him, although maybe a little loyalty should be due here due to his long term injury that Hearts/Vlad have stuck by him through this last 18 months. But given the fact he has easily been our best player over the last 5/6 weeks since he came back from his horrible injury spell why has he not been offered an new deal (I heard rumours one is coming in the next week or two).

 

But of course the press are going to make out we are skint due to the silly non-payment of bills/Arbroath (quite rightly too TBH)

 

2. Its been mentioned so many times before and most of us will take it with a pinch of salt at the moment, but this bad press is also being brought on by the club themselves (see comment regarding bills above)......but comments like

 

 

 

How do they know that? Just making a story out of nothing really.....the press - just as much as us fans - no jack **** about Hearts accounts, but yet the still assume they do.

 

3.

 

 

 

Are we really? If you take into account the dosh from transfers in the last finacial year which have still to be taken into account and the ?12m share issue thingy personally I'd actually put that Hearts at a lower debt level than when Vlad took over? Was it not announced in the last week or so that UKIO were actually one of the very few banks in the WORLD to post a profit during the economic credit crunch?

 

4. OK, so what if we do sell the named players - Berra, Zal, Wallace, Driver, Larry, Obua and others (plus dropping a few others off the wage bill - Miko, Chesney, Kello - (if we are even paying their wages), Banks, Clum etc )(I've heard of a couple of Championship teams are even looking at Nade) - Where exactly would this 'unsustainable' debt lie then...I am no accountant, but if those players were to leave along with their wages and youth players brought in through the ranks which we know are there although not tested yet, they are there.....I'd make us actually probably in PROFIT....you know in the black, not the red.......what would everyone say to that - especially the press?

 

 

some may agree....many will pick holes in my post - I dont give a ****, I have thought about this the last couple of days and think I actually have a valid point.

 

 

(sorry for any speeling or grammar errors before anyone starts! lol)

 

 

Regards!

TFM

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

The Future's Maroon

Not a bad theory problem is they cant fill the park now and they certainly wont with a bunch of untried youngsters, Hearts attendance has and is on a steady decline, a few top name players leaving would in my estimation speed the decline up even further.

[SeeVee]

Wasn't that far away was on the "Last throw of the dice" thread but here it is

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37117&page=2

 

I don't think I have been too generous with any figures in that and as it says I have left room for a give or take by as much as 3 million, but still way way off your prediction of 28million +

 

Your post says that the ?12.5m loss can be reduced by the "player registration" fees, but I think I'm right in saying that these costs went into intangible assets and are not included in the ?12.5m - can anyone who knows about these things confirm? Likewise the planning costs have gone into tangible fixed assets under the heading "Assets in the course of construction".

 

Finally, I'm certain that the ?12.5m would have been ?13.6m if we hadn't sold Hartley.

 

When you take these into account, plus Shaun's reply, I think his figure is starting to look quite likely.

[john brownlee]

could all these regurgutated stories have something to do with the fact we are playing one of the squirm this weekend.

 

get a life. Hearts are and will always be a selling club only this time round we hold the cards . Nobody goes cheap at Tynecastle, these days are over. You are either worth something or garbage and in the end you get shipped out if you are the later. We have made more on transfer fees in the Romanov eara than at any other time and possible to our advantage, getting money for players that felt their time at Hearts was over. ( with the exception of judus) but havein' said that there's not much we could have done to stop it happening.

IMO we done the right thing and now lets hope other Hearts player see that its not worth it to screw Mr Romanov if you do then your are guoosed. to put it mildly.

 

Like Csaba, says it great and a boast to the club when you have intrest from other clubs in your players it means you are doing something right.

Our Players getting linked with some of the top english and euro teams

 

think of the boast that the players get when they hear that there's scouts from big clubs in the stand maybe watching them.

 

long may it last

[He Who Cannot Be Named]

could all these regurgutated stories have something to do with the fact we are playing one of the squirm this weekend.

 

get a life. Hearts are and will always be a selling club only this time round we hold the cards . Nobody goes cheap at Tynecastle, these days are over. You are either worth something or garbage and in the end you get shipped out if you are the later. We have made more on transfer fees in the Romanov eara than at any other time and possible to our advantage, getting money for players that felt their time at Hearts was over. ( with the exception of judus) but havein' said that there's not much we could have done to stop it happening.

IMO we done the right thing and now lets hope other Hearts player see that its not worth it to screw Mr Romanov if you do then your are guoosed. to put it mildly.

 

Like Csaba, says it great and a boast to the club when you have intrest from other clubs in your players it means you are doing something right.

Our Players getting linked with some of the top english and euro teams

 

think of the boast that the players get when they hear that there's scouts from big clubs in the stand maybe watching them.

 

long may it last

 

 

Yes, because im sure its the players who decide..

 

The word is 'boost'

 

Why? Im glad you enjoy supporting a one stop shop for players to be whored out to bigger clubs for money we most probably will not see, this most definately will involve a compromise in team selection. Id prefer the manager to be allowed to build a team within our own means that can eventully challenge for trophys.

 

But whatever floots your boot, 'get a life' the man says.. well done.

[Bzzzz]

I f we lose our best players in Jan it will obviously be on financial terms. Dnt want to see anyone (but the obvious) going in Jan..

[Guest JamboRobbo]

The word is 'boost'

 

Cheers, saved me explaining it to him.