Edinburgh - Drug Capital Of Scotland!!!

[ri Alban]

Scotland should legalise drugs. Doing this we can control the filthy stuff, especially the strength of drugs and as far we can, safety.

We certainly should begin by making it a medical emergency, rather than criminal. 

We need folk to look for help without being vilified. Addiction is addiction, drink, fags, gambling and drugs(Prescription and recreational) Lets help clean this place up. WM can participate or GTF, it's their choice. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by ri Alban

[Doctor FinnBarr]

3 hours ago, Sharpie said:

Thanks very much, it just made me curious especially when I tried to find his profile and it is not available. I have no beef with what he had to say old fashioned I am, actually there is nothing can be in my description quite justifiably that doesn't start with old.  

I am from an Edinburgh generation especially a a policeman where drugs were not a problem, they in fact were an unknown. The problem with the persons who will now be drug addicts was cheap wine, my description of toothless, dirt people was exactly the same with the winos. They dd not have much in the way of treatment to cure their alcoholism he only people who I remember actually caring were the Salvation Army.

 

My first ever arrest in Canada was for something non drug related, but in the custody search I found these packages of to me an unknown commodity one of my young constables described it as weed, the prisoner was then also charged with possession for the purpose of trafficking. My knowledge of drugs and drug users in the next twenty six years increased significantly, but I never really gained any respect for the highly committed drug users. There were numerous agencies, and groups who had great sympathy for addicts, some would be convinced to accept offers of rehab, and they did, they accepted all, the food, the accommodations in some cases the religious teachings, but soon tired and returned to their self induced habit. These individuals were just like the old winos of Edinburgh, dirty, unkempt, dishonest , and would do anything for money but get a job. Sleep anywhere in filth, their own excrement and urine, and all because of a habit they had started having to have known the future ravages of the body and mind.

 

I have no great objection to being referred to as ignorant, and old fashioned, I think the ignorant is a bit strong, I just wonder how many miles the accuser has walked in my shoes, sure I could be more sympathetic towards people who made a very bad decision in life, I could be if they took the opportunities offered to change but if they did not no sympathy from me. Old fashioned, ignorant if that make me so, then so let it be.

I think, as many others do Bob and refer to you as "faither of the hoose".

[Governor Tarkin]

It's clearly Westminster and the weegies fault.

[mutley]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It's those pesky Glaswegians. Take responsibility for your epidemic.  If Glasgow and the West had your dismissive attitude, they'd never get Knife crime and its drug epidemic under control. Hopefully the open safe zones and give whoever objects the middle finger. 

 

You can stay in denial.

Edinburgh has a drugs deaths per 1000 people less than the Scottish average. It’s still high in UK terms but both Dundee and Glasgow are double the Edinburgh number. So unless we are significantly better at taking drugs than the weegies then we’ve nothing to deny

[Cade]

Prohibition doesn't work.

The "War on Drugs" has been a monumental failure for decades.

People like to get high and they will get high.

It's not confined to any one socio-economic class either.

From your stereotypical street junkie to your upper middle-class coke snorter, everybody is at it.

All that governments have done is make the only source of recreational drugs totally unregulated and unsafe.

Buyers have no clue what they're getting when they make a purchase.

How safe it is, what the dosage is, nothing.

Criminals have gotten extremely rich from the drug trade and violence is used to protect their interests.

The state is spending untold money on healthcare for addicts who have accidentally overdosed or been spiked with god knows what.

The state is also throwing untold cash at policing the criminal gangs.

 

The wise move is to legalise, tax and regulate the drug trade.

Making it safer means less cost to the healthcare services and less drug deaths. Quality of product would be guaranteed and accidental overdoses reduced.

Taxing it means the government would have more to spend on public services or anything else they see fit.

The violent criminals will be in direct competition with legal sources producing it on an industrial scale. This should reduce the cost of production.

Even with tax added on, people would probably not mind paying a tiny bit more for a safer product.

Get it out of the hands of criminals, get it off the streets, offer proper programmes for addicts wanting to quit and increase the tax take.

It's well beyond time we had more mature and sensible drug policy instead of counter productive, draconian prohibition.

[Byyy The Light]

19 minutes ago, Cade said:

Prohibition doesn't work.

The "War on Drugs" has been a monumental failure for decades.

People like to get high and they will get high.

It's not confined to any one socio-economic class either.

From your stereotypical street junkie to your upper middle-class coke snorter, everybody is at it.

All that governments have done is make the only source of recreational drugs totally unregulated and unsafe.

Buyers have no clue what they're getting when they make a purchase.

How safe it is, what the dosage is, nothing.

Criminals have gotten extremely rich from the drug trade and violence is used to protect their interests.

The state is spending untold money on healthcare for addicts who have accidentally overdosed or been spiked with god knows what.

The state is also throwing untold cash at policing the criminal gangs.

 

The wise move is to legalise, tax and regulate the drug trade.

Making it safer means less cost to the healthcare services and less drug deaths. Quality of product would be guaranteed and accidental overdoses reduced.

Taxing it means the government would have more to spend on public services or anything else they see fit.

The violent criminals will be in direct competition with legal sources producing it on an industrial scale. This should reduce the cost of production.

Even with tax added on, people would probably not mind paying a tiny bit more for a safer product.

Get it out of the hands of criminals, get it off the streets, offer proper programmes for addicts wanting to quit and increase the tax take.

It's well beyond time we had more mature and sensible drug policy instead of counter productive, draconian prohibition.

 

Agree with every word.

 

It's not going to eradicate street drugs completely but it changes the game massively.  A huge percentage of addicts who's lives spiral out of control could be helped before they fall in to the inevitable cycles of debt, loneliness, crime and desperation.

 

 

[graygo]

6 hours ago, Sharpie said:

Thanks very much, it just made me curious especially when I tried to find his profile and it is not available. I have no beef with what he had to say old fashioned I am, actually there is nothing can be in my description quite justifiably that doesn't start with old.  

I am from an Edinburgh generation especially a a policeman where drugs were not a problem, they in fact were an unknown. The problem with the persons who will now be drug addicts was cheap wine, my description of toothless, dirt people was exactly the same with the winos. They dd not have much in the way of treatment to cure their alcoholism he only people who I remember actually caring were the Salvation Army.

 

My first ever arrest in Canada was for something non drug related, but in the custody search I found these packages of to me an unknown commodity one of my young constables described it as weed, the prisoner was then also charged with possession for the purpose of trafficking. My knowledge of drugs and drug users in the next twenty six years increased significantly, but I never really gained any respect for the highly committed drug users. There were numerous agencies, and groups who had great sympathy for addicts, some would be convinced to accept offers of rehab, and they did, they accepted all, the food, the accommodations in some cases the religious teachings, but soon tired and returned to their self induced habit. These individuals were just like the old winos of Edinburgh, dirty, unkempt, dishonest , and would do anything for money but get a job. Sleep anywhere in filth, their own excrement and urine, and all because of a habit they had started having to have known the future ravages of the body and mind.

 

I have no great objection to being referred to as ignorant, and old fashioned, I think the ignorant is a bit strong, I just wonder how many miles the accuser has walked in my shoes, sure I could be more sympathetic towards people who made a very bad decision in life, I could be if they took the opportunities offered to change but if they did not no sympathy from me. Old fashioned, ignorant if that make me so, then so let it be.

 

Bob, I'm not going to respond to all of your points but I agree that the word "ignorant" could be viewed as a bit strong, it's why I said I wouldn't call you it and used old fashioned instead. By your own admission it's been a few years since you dealt with addicts and time and knowledge has moved on since then, or at least views different from yours are more widely accepted. 

I used to share your views until someone on this forum pointed me in the direction of a couple of books on the subject, sorry can't remember what they were called or who wrote them but the evidence was overwhelming, the "war on drugs" causes more damage than the problem it purports to try to solve.

I wouldn't think you would find many studies into the effectiveness of "America's" war on drugs that say it has or is working, you will find the overwhelming majority of them saying that it hasn't made the slightest bit of difference, the opposite is probably true.

The Edinburgh Polis are not going to solve this city's problems with drugs, education and medical help might though.

 

As for the name change - nothing sinister and I wish I hadn't done it as most folk on here for some reason need to know who they are debating with.

[3fingersreid]

I’ve never taken any ( non medicinal) drug in my life , never seen the need for it . 
I work in a job where I encounter folk who are , drunk and/or high on some drug . 
Alcohol used properly is fine , when it’s abused normal everyday people can become aggressive dangerous people .

Ive had folk take substance in the cab and seen them go from zero to a hundred in a second , why would anyone want to do that ? 
 

Now we get to weed , would far rather have 1000 passengers who have used weed than one of the two I’ve mentioned above but I’m going to add a caveat to that . If weed has to be taken , can someone please please please make it smell better . Like cigarettes I’m guessing users don’t realise just how bloody disgusting it is and how they smell 🤮🤮

[Zico]

If those weegies would ‘waaash thur hauns’ more than once a decade, their skag wouldn’t be so rank and their hundreds of thousands of junkies would help give the city a life expectancy on par with Sierra Leone.

[Auldbenches]

2 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

It's clearly Westminster and the weegies fault.

The snp do want the decriminalisation of weed but it's not a devolved power.   Can't see what Westminster has got to lose by us going for it.   So Westminster is responsible for us being stuck with these drug laws.  

[Locky]

What I really hate, is when dealers groom young, impressionable teenage boys to work for them and be their run around. Seen it happen first hand. It appeals to a 13-14 year old laddie because of what they see in movies. They don't realise the consequences of what they're doing, and once they're in, it's hard for them to get out. It's all a bit of fun while their earning a wee bit of money and getting some street cred to use over their mates. But then when they get something wrong, or want out, it ends up with them being beaten, family beaten, house attacked etc. ****ing scumbags.

 

Grooming a child into a world of crime and drugs for me, is on a par with grooming a child for sexual purposes. Both ****ing scummy behaviours.

 

 

[Ron Burgundy]

17 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

The snp do want the decriminalisation of weed but it's not a devolved power.   Can't see what Westminster has got to lose by us going for it.   So Westminster is responsible for us being stuck with these drug laws.  

Another thing they would love to change if only their hands weren't tied bollox. Maybe change the things they can like health and education then.

[Governor Tarkin]

15 minutes ago, Locky said:

What I really hate, is when dealers groom young, impressionable teenage boys to work for them and be their run around. Seen it happen first hand. It appeals to a 13-14 year old laddie because of what they see in movies. They don't realise the consequences of what they're doing, and once they're in, it's hard for them to get out. It's all a bit of fun while their earning a wee bit of money and getting some street cred to use over their mates. But then when they get something wrong, or want out, it ends up with them being beaten, family beaten, house attacked etc. ****ing scumbags.

 

Grooming a child into a world of crime and drugs for me, is on a par with grooming a child for sexual purposes. Both ****ing scummy behaviours.

 

 

 

Agreed. Seen it more times than I care to recall. You can pretty much write the script every time.

 

29 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

The snp do want the decriminalisation of weed but it's not a devolved power.   Can't see what Westminster has got to lose by us going for it.   So Westminster is responsible for us being stuck with these drug laws.  

 

Westminster - whichever party is in power - has a lot of votes and funding to lose due to the prevelance of attitudes similar to Sharpie's amongst the voting and monied classes. There's also pressure from the US, who remain the most 'influential' protagonist in the 'war on drugs'. I thought that once the US started decriminalising cannabis that we'd see a similar softening here, but nothing yet. 

I agree that that the SNP have a more progressive attitude towards the problem of drugs, but it's easy to say what you'd like to be doing when you know that you don't have the power to do it. Commenting on non devolved powers ammounts to little more than punditry. Their attitude may necessarilly change when faced with pressure from powerful international trading partners. Either way, I support them fully in this and would like to see their ideas, trialled, then rolled out everywhere if successful.

 

I still blame the weegies, and the west of Scotland in general, though.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Governor Tarkin

[Auldbenches]

10 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Another thing they would love to change if only their hands weren't tied bollox. Maybe change the things they can like health and education then.

Could be a bit if that.  Why not devolve these laws and let us go for it? We have our own legal system so I can't see why the drugs laws weren't devolved.

What has Westminster got to lose if we try something different?

If it works they learn from it and it doesn't effect them if it doesn't.

Can you see a reason for holding back to have our own drug laws with a different legal system?

[Cade]

Just now, Auldbenches said:

Could be a bit if that.  Why not devolve these laws and let us go for it? We have our own legal system so I can't see why the drugs laws weren't devolved.

What has Westminster got to lose if we try something different?

If it works they learn from it and it doesn't effect them if it doesn't.

Can you see a reason for holding back to have our own drug laws with a different legal system?

Political dogma.

Not being seen to be throwing in the towel of the "WAR ON DRUGS!" after decades beating that drum to no effect.

It's pathetic.

[Auldbenches]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Agreed. Seen it more times than I care to recall. You can pretty much write the script every time.

 

 

Westminster - whichever party is in power - has a lot of votes and funding to lose due to the prevelance of attitudes similar to Sharpie's amongst the voting and monied classes. There's also pressure from the US, who remain the most 'influential' protagonist in the 'war on drugs'. I thought that once the US started decriminalising cannabis that we'd see a similar softening here, but nothing yet. 

I agree that that the SNP have a more progressive attitude towards the problem of drugs, but it's easy to say what you'd like to be doing when you know that you don't have the power to do it. Commenting on non devolved powers ammounts to little more than punditry. Their attitude may necessarilly change when faced with pressure from powerful international trading partners. Either way, I support them fully in this and would like to their ideas rolled out everywhere.

 

I still blame the weegies, and the west of Scotland in general, though.

I never mentioned the weedgies as it goes without saying.  

 

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, Auldbenches said:

I never mentioned the weedgies as it goes without saying.  

 

 

Yeh, I know you didn't, I'm just trying to rattle ri Alban's cage as his rants can be amusing and I'm bored out of my tits.

[Auldbenches]

Just now, Cade said:

Political dogma.

Not being seen to be throwing in the towel of the "WAR ON DRUGS!" after decades beating that drum to no effect.

It's pathetic.

I agree with this.  Announced it at their last conference when there are plenty of things they could change but heralded this.

Still doesn't address the question of why Westminster didn't devolved these powers. 

Khan has commissioned a feasibility study into the legalisation of weed.  It looks like they know the only answer is to regulate it like alcohol. 

 

[Ron Burgundy]

4 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Could be a bit if that.  Why not devolve these laws and let us go for it? We have our own legal system so I can't see why the drugs laws weren't devolved.

What has Westminster got to lose if we try something different?

If it works they learn from it and it doesn't effect them if it doesn't.

Can you see a reason for holding back to have our own drug laws with a different legal system?

I honestly don't know the answer. I think the SNP are quite happy to only have certain powers and can then use grievance politics to their advantage. I'm sure they requested that certain powers that were going to be transferred be delayed as they couldn't cope. Doesn't bode well for independence.

 

Anyway I live in Restalrig for my sins and can concur that there is a huge drug problem here.

 

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Yeh, I know you didn't, I'm just trying to rattle ri Alban's cage as his rants can be amusing and I'm bored out of my tits.

I was being ironic in mentioning them.  I blame them for everything that is wrong with Scotland.  If ri alban is unhappy with that, he can kiss my sassenach arse...

He forgets that he is also a dirty sassenach.  

[Mikey1874]

38 minutes ago, Locky said:

What I really hate, is when dealers groom young, impressionable teenage boys to work for them and be their run around. Seen it happen first hand. It appeals to a 13-14 year old laddie because of what they see in movies. They don't realise the consequences of what they're doing, and once they're in, it's hard for them to get out. It's all a bit of fun while their earning a wee bit of money and getting some street cred to use over their mates. But then when they get something wrong, or want out, it ends up with them being beaten, family beaten, house attacked etc. ****ing scumbags.

 

Grooming a child into a world of crime and drugs for me, is on a par with grooming a child for sexual purposes. Both ****ing scummy behaviours.

 

 

 

Maybe where it went wrong for Bradley Welsh. 

[Riddley Walker]

10 hours ago, Sharpie said:

  Thank you for your insightful view into my post. I dealt for 26 years on a regular basis with drug addicts hiding in corners jabbing their arms with dirty needles. In the last ten years or so  of that twenty six I dealt with the same thing when perfectly available safe sterile  drug using sites were available and not used by many .Some safe drugs were offered but the hypes wanted stronger fixes. the non controlled manufacture you mention is also part of the problem because it does offer the type of effect desired. In my ignorance I always thought it was the introduction of the drugs by criminal entities that caused the war on drugs. 

Please do not deny yourself your right to use what words you wish to demean my views, ignorant and old fashioned are indeed tame to what I have been called because of my views and actions when dealing with addicts. Sadly my dealings were not with nice little rich boys who could buy from respectable and trustworthy dealers. They were skid road bums in the main who used criminal tactics to pay for their habit. They had no desire for work and the same for rehabilitation and live with no ambition or care or concern other than their  next fix.

With that sir, as we say in Canada "have a nice day.

 

 

I worked closely in a job which involved working with lots of heroin addicts. Almost all of them had awful childhoods ranging from abuse - physical and sexual - living in care homes or being shunted around families with no love, parents with addictions, the list goes on. This doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable for crimes they commit or their actions, but at least show some basic understanding and human empathy. 

 

Unfortunately views like yours are still prevalent among policeman and I'm not surprised that's your previous profession. I know two people that joined the police recently that share similar views to yours. 

[Craig_]

14 hours ago, Gards said:

Quite a few BANNED users on this thread 🙂

 

Some of us OGs are still here...

 

[hmfc_liam06]

So....anyone got any decent gear?

[Stu_HMFC]

2 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

I’ve never taken any ( non medicinal) drug in my life , never seen the need for it . 
I work in a job where I encounter folk who are , drunk and/or high on some drug . 
Alcohol used properly is fine , when it’s abused normal everyday people can become aggressive dangerous people .

Ive had folk take substance in the cab and seen them go from zero to a hundred in a second , why would anyone want to do that ? 
 

Now we get to weed , would far rather have 1000 passengers who have used weed than one of the two I’ve mentioned above but I’m going to add a caveat to that . If weed has to be taken , can someone please please please make it smell better . Like cigarettes I’m guessing users don’t realise just how bloody disgusting it is and how they smell 🤮🤮

Majority of places you walk in Edinburgh now reeks of it left my house and walked down the road the other day I thought I was in Amsterdam. 

 

I don't care about Weed I don't smoke it and no on smokes it around me so it won't bother me until someone does. 

[151]

 

After all the patter about Dundee in another thread a few weeks ago, this is immensely pleasing. 

 

Although of course a drugs problem anywhere is horrible to hear and the folk affected almost always have underlying childhood trauma attached to their addiction etc.

 

 

[mutley]

2 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

After all the patter about Dundee in another thread a few weeks ago, this is immensely pleasing. 

 

Although of course a drugs problem anywhere is horrible to hear and the folk affected almost always have underlying childhood trauma attached to their addiction etc.

 

 

You are twice as likely to die from drugs in Dundee than Edinburgh 😂

no idea why everyone is still believing this nonsense headline from 12 years ago

[Zico]

9 minutes ago, mutley said:

You are twice as likely to die from drugs in Dundee than Edinburgh 😂

no idea why everyone is still believing this nonsense headline from 12 years ago

To be fair, it was accurate...in 1985. 

[Gizmo]

6 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

It's clearly Westminster and the weegies fault.

Westminster hired an expert as a Drugs Tsar and asked him to write a proposal for tackling soaring drug use. His report basically suggested rehabilitation and legalization and govt control of drugs, arguing convincingly that the "war on drugs" doesn't work.

Outcome, predictably? They sacked him. 

[Byyy The Light]

3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Yeh, I know you didn't, I'm just trying to rattle ri Alban's cage as his rants can be amusing and I'm bored out of my tits.

 

 

[Sharpie]

Some excellent views and opinions stated for me to start my day on. I am a figure of my generation, having basically been raised to the belief that who you are what you are is entirely up to you. I was married to a woman who for a long time in fact all of our marriage never missed an opportunity to tell me, "Rob you always think and act like a policeman" and that was still said after thirty years of retirement.

As I stated I went through some of my childhood with an alcoholic cousin who for a lengthy period lived with us, I saw  his actions tear my mothers heart out because she had the same love for this unfortunate soul as she had for my sister and I. I have also stated he was my first arrest a an Edinburgh Policeman. He was offered opportunity after opportunity to straighten out but his life path was set, it was a cycle, need drink, need money, work was out of the question steal, go to jail, dry out get bodily clean and some decent clothes, leave jail and get back in the rut.

Later in life in a different country and police system I saw and dealt with many Ernies. Now though the weapon to destroy a life was drugs, an illegal entity, and the participants were just the same. Inject lose all comprehension of normal life, rain misery on loving family members, steal ,cheat, rob to sustain your use of a highly illegal product.Take advantage as long a you can of those who would try to help you resume normal life, take all you get for nothing, here the sight of the users first thing in the morning of the Welfare payouts provided by the government to obtain the necessities of life was instead used to buy drugs.

I am a fairly compassionate individual, but I have a problem with understanding how you are going to make a difference to the population of addicts, marijuana has been made legal, and it has been highly successful, and effective I have no problem at all with it. But the people who want cocaine, laced with fentanyl are on a whole different plateau. I have not been a policeman for thirty years, but read daily and see on TV here about people lying drugged out on public beaches doing so in front of mothers with children, with a basic attitude of right in their bewildered minds. Only a complete fool would say the situation is good, and I am not complete, yes I am biased because no one has shown me a suitable alternative to the criminal control of the market and how the addict is going to be legitimately supplied, treated and convinced to stop the use, they voluntarily started knowing exactly what the future likely held.

I am a product of my generation, I have had my life experience with the good the bad and the ugly, I have arrested charged and seen as a result people go to jail, but we have despite that managed to have a civil relationship. I am totally adverse to hard drug addicts, I have seen them in their own private environment, I have seen them offered relief and assistance to recover. I am sorry, I may be rightly referred to as many things because of my contrary opinions in this matter, but if someone can show me a solution that is guaranteed to work I will be happy. But one way or another I have been involved in mans in some cases their efforts to destroy themselves for the best part of sixty six years, and have seen some positive changes,  not so many drunk and incapables, but this has now been replaced by drug users.

 

[Governor Tarkin]

14 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Westminster hired an expert as a Drugs Tsar and asked him to write a proposal for tackling soaring drug use. His report basically suggested rehabilitation and legalization and govt control of drugs, arguing convincingly that the "war on drugs" doesn't work.

Outcome, predictably? They sacked him. 

 

Was it that David Nutt guy? Goggsy Broon gave him his jotters iirc.

[graygo]

11 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

Some excellent views and opinions stated for me to start my day on. I am a figure of my generation, having basically been raised to the belief that who you are what you are is entirely up to you. I was married to a woman who for a long time in fact all of our marriage never missed an opportunity to tell me, "Rob you always think and act like a policeman" and that was still said after thirty years of retirement.

As I stated I went through some of my childhood with an alcoholic cousin who for a lengthy period lived with us, I saw  his actions tear my mothers heart out because she had the same love for this unfortunate soul as she had for my sister and I. I have also stated he was my first arrest a an Edinburgh Policeman. He was offered opportunity after opportunity to straighten out but his life path was set, it was a cycle, need drink, need money, work was out of the question steal, go to jail, dry out get bodily clean and some decent clothes, leave jail and get back in the rut.

Later in life in a different country and police system I saw and dealt with many Ernies. Now though the weapon to destroy a life was drugs, an illegal entity, and the participants were just the same. Inject lose all comprehension of normal life, rain misery on loving family members, steal ,cheat, rob to sustain your use of a highly illegal product.Take advantage as long a you can of those who would try to help you resume normal life, take all you get for nothing, here the sight of the users first thing in the morning of the Welfare payouts provided by the government to obtain the necessities of life was instead used to buy drugs.

I am a fairly compassionate individual, but I have a problem with understanding how you are going to make a difference to the population of addicts, marijuana has been made legal, and it has been highly successful, and effective I have no problem at all with it. But the people who want cocaine, laced with fentanyl are on a whole different plateau. I have not been a policeman for thirty years, but read daily and see on TV here about people lying drugged out on public beaches doing so in front of mothers with children, with a basic attitude of right in their bewildered minds. Only a complete fool would say the situation is good, and I am not complete, yes I am biased because no one has shown me a suitable alternative to the criminal control of the market and how the addict is going to be legitimately supplied, treated and convinced to stop the use, they voluntarily started knowing exactly what the future likely held.

I am a product of my generation, I have had my life experience with the good the bad and the ugly, I have arrested charged and seen as a result people go to jail, but we have despite that managed to have a civil relationship. I am totally adverse to hard drug addicts, I have seen them in their own private environment, I have seen them offered relief and assistance to recover. I am sorry, I may be rightly referred to as many things because of my contrary opinions in this matter, but if someone can show me a solution that is guaranteed to work I will be happy. But one way or another I have been involved in mans in some cases their efforts to destroy themselves for the best part of sixty six years, and have seen some positive changes,  not so many drunk and incapables, but this has now been replaced by drug users.

 

 

Instead of reading newspaper articles on the issue Bob how about downloading the attached report by the Global Commission on Drug Policy who report on opioid abuse in America and Canada with specific focus on cocaine and fentanyl use.

If you can't be arsed reading it you could maybe jump to their recommendations, if you can't be arsed even doing that then let me tell you that decriminalisation lies at the heart of it. If you couldn't be arsed reading this post then fair enough.

 

http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/position-papers/opioid-crisis-north-america-position-paper

 

Here's another report they commissioned that might be of interest 😁

 

THE WORLD DRUG PERCEPTION PROBLEM: COUNTERING PREJUDICES ABOUT PEOPLE WHO USE DRUGS

 

https://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/reports/changing-perceptions

 

[Mikey1874]

Lots of useful schemes to study. With more decriminalisation eg Portugal.

 

But another useful study is to compare black area in USA where drug use is strongly criminalised. And white, more affluent areas where it is more or less ignored and tolerated. 

[Spellczech]

Anyone got any drugs?

[Jeffros Furios]

5 hours ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Instead of reading newspaper articles on the issue Bob how about downloading the attached report by the Global Commission on Drug Policy who report on opioid abuse in America and Canada with specific focus on cocaine and fentanyl use.

If you can't be arsed reading it you could maybe jump to their recommendations, if you can't be arsed even doing that then let me tell you that decriminalisation lies at the heart of it. If you couldn't be arsed reading this post then fair enough.

 

http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/position-papers/opioid-crisis-north-america-position-paper

 

Here's another report they commissioned that might be of interest 😁

 

THE WORLD DRUG PERCEPTION PROBLEM: COUNTERING PREJUDICES ABOUT PEOPLE WHO USE DRUGS

 

https://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/reports/changing-perceptions

 

Hopefully he can't be arsed reading your posts as you are acting the knob .

[graygo]

42 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Hopefully he can't be arsed reading your posts as you are acting the knob .

 

Aye whatever.

[JDK2020]

Drugs are everywhere - cities, towns villages, rural hamlets, anywhere with people with money to spend and feck all sense to avoid taking drugs.

But it would take some kind of weird shit-show of a place to outdo Dundee IMO.

[Dia Liom]

Drugs are bad, m'kay

[Sharpie]

15 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Scotland should legalise drugs. Doing this we can control the filthy stuff, especially the strength of drugs and as far we can, safety.

We certainly should begin by making it a medical emergency, rather than criminal. 

We need folk to look for help without being vilified. Addiction is addiction, drink, fags, gambling and drugs(Prescription and recreational) Lets help clean this place up. WM can participate or GTF, it's their choice. 

 

[Sharpie]

9 hours ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Instead of reading newspaper articles on the issue Bob how about downloading the attached report by the Global Commission on Drug Policy who report on opioid abuse in America and Canada with specific focus on cocaine and fentanyl use.

If you can't be arsed reading it you could maybe jump to their recommendations, if you can't be arsed even doing that then let me tell you that decriminalisation lies at the heart of it. If you couldn't be arsed reading this post then fair enough.

 

http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/position-papers/opioid-crisis-north-america-position-paper

 

Here's another report they commissioned that might be of interest 😁

 

THE WORLD DRUG PERCEPTION PROBLEM: COUNTERING PREJUDICES ABOUT PEOPLE WHO USE DRUGS

 

https://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/reports/changing-perceptions

 

 

[Doctor FinnBarr]

FFS, just noticed that Raaawwwrr otherwise known as Prancer started this thread. No wonder he's banned, utter utter prick of a guy.

[Sharpie]

52 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

I have just read the first article.  I found it interesting reading and really have no arguments about what it is saying. It does from what I gained from it rely a lot on patients who have been prescribed opioids for various medical conditions. I can understand that also, I watched my dying wife being helped into death with heavy injections of Morphine. She could hear but not speak, and was in a heartbreaking state, but the drug was giving relief  from pain and thought of her fate. I could see where someone suffering from the pain of cancer receiving similar treatment could if recovering from the cancer  seek the peace provided by the opioids by entering the illegal market to gain the relief they sought. It also referred to the indigenous population of Canada, people with whom I had quite a comprehensive dealing, there was a lot of alcohol abuse, not in my time the same extent as discussed about drugs. Yes these are people who need lots of help, most were traditionally proud people overrun by the white man. As the Detachment Commander of our police Department I implemented a program where we hired for   for summer positions some young indigenous people who had indicated a police career as an option, this may provide some insight to the job. I was later involved in a course with the Vancouver Police for further assistance to these young people, not heavily and the Vancouver police took the primary action.  These were good initiatives towards discouraging a start to drug use.

 

I actually but stand to be corrected did not see much about the what I would describe as the criminal user, who just decided he wanted to use drugs and tried and enjoyed it and relapsed into being what I had contact with and who came to me to be just another hype with no desire to stop their habit and death had no power of fear to them, their motivation in life was to get the strongest ingredient possible in their fix and have the strongest reaction of their life. Yes I use newspapers and television now to keep as aware as I can about the problems affecting the World, I see right in there where they desire the hardest hit they can get the hope to get Fentanyl and there is another equally lethal dose they can have mixed in, there desire in life is the big fix. Yes I am prejudiced, I am a person who has been subjected to strict discipline one way or another all my life, and yes I find it difficult or I did when directly involved to deal with humans who would when fixing or fixed release their bowels into their clothing, and lie in that state sometimes for extended periods, I didn't see anything in the paper that showed a solution to those people. 

Decriminalising can mean a number of things, one here they are looking at is the decriminalising of simple possession, that alone will be a money saver a reduction in police and Court costs. As I have said Marijuana use is no longer illegal here and can be purchased in stores who sell it and in many varieties, no problem with that but the customers and users are different, it is fine to contradict and throw wee barbs at me I'm a big man, I can take it, yet when on this very forum police are described as scum no comment but exception is taken to my comments about hypes, I have two words I try never to use hate and scum, I believe both are more than demeaning they are words used to describe in the worst terms total disgust with another person, oh I may hate the thought of a snake crawling up my leg but try never to associate it with another person.

So my conclusion is do what can be done to make drug use non criminal, but don't just talk about it show me the facts and do it.. Your panel of illustrious people set out an impressive paper, but what has it achieved so far.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Sharpie

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Sharpie said:

I have just read the first article.  I found it interesting reading and really have no arguments about what it is saying. It does from what I gained from it rely a lot on patients who have been prescribed opioids for various medical conditions. I can understand that also, I watched my dying wife being helped into death with heavy injections of Morphine. She could hear but not speak, and was in a heartbreaking state, but the drug was giving relief  from pain and thought of her fate. I could see where someone suffering from the pain of cancer receiving similar treatment could if recovering from the cancer  seek the peace provided by the opioids by entering the illegal market to gain the relief they sought. It also referred to the indigenous population of Canada, people with whom I had quite a comprehensive dealing, there was a lot of alcohol abuse, not in my time the same extent as discussed about drugs. Yes these are people who need lots of help, most were traditionally proud people overrun by the white man. As the Detachment Commander of our police Department I implemented a program where we hired for   for summer positions some young indigenous people who had indicated a police career as an option, this may provide some insight to the job. I was later involved in a course with the Vancouver Police for further assistance to these young people, not heavily and the Vancouver police took the primary action.  These were good initiatives towards discouraging a start to drug use.

 

I actually but stand to be corrected did not see much about the what I would describe as the criminal user, who just decided he wanted to use drugs and tried and enjoyed it and relapsed into being what I had contact with and who came to me to be just another hype with no desire to stop their habit and death had no power of fear to them, their motivation in life was to get the strongest ingredient possible in their fix and have the strongest reaction of their life. Yes I use newspapers and television now to keep as aware as I can about the problems affecting the World, I see right in there where they desire the hardest hit they can get the hope to get Fentanyl and there is another equally lethal dose they can have mixed in, there desire in life is the big fix. Yes I am prejudiced, I am a person who has been subjected to strict discipline one way or another all my life, and yes I find it difficult or I did when directly involved to deal with humans who would when fixing or fixed release their bowels into their clothing, and lie in that state sometimes for extended periods, I didn't see anything in the paper that showed a solution to those people. 

Decriminalising can mean a number of things, one here they are looking at is the decriminalising of simple possession, that alone will be a money saver a reduction in police and Court costs. As I have said Marijuana use is no longer illegal here and can be purchased in stores who sell it and in many varieties, no problem with that but the customers and users are different, it is fine to contradict and throw wee barbs at me I'm a big man, I can take it, yet when on this very forum police are described as scum no comment but exception is taken to my comments about hypes, I have two words I try never to use hate and scum, I believe both are more than demeaning they are words used to describe in the worst terms total disgust with another person, oh I may hate the thought of a snake crawling up my leg but try never to associate it with another person.

So my conclusion is do what can be done to make drug use non criminal, but don't just talk about it show me the facts and do it.. Your panel of illustrious people set out an impressive paper, but what has it achieved so far.

 

Thanks for the reply Bob and for humouring me by reading at least some of the links. I think it's obvious that what you read wasn't enough to outweigh your years of experience in dealing with the subject which is understandable. I would be the same in your position, in fact it's not blandly accepting others views as being the right ones without proof that makes me an argumentative bugger and I'm well aware I come over as "a knob" I think I was called earlier.

I agree with your comments about "hate" and "scum", words I would never level at the police, you never quoted anybody on your post so just pointing out that I'm sure it didn't come from me. 👍

[ri Alban]

22 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

It's clearly Westminster and the weegies fault.

Pity we don't get as angry about Drug dealers as we do football owners.  We really do get angry about the wrong things. Government sleaze . Foreign aide

[Seymour M Hersh]

Maybe the Vermin's casual loving, Irving tattyheid Welsh, will write another crappy book about it. 

[Governor Tarkin]

4 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Maybe the Vermin's casual loving, Irving tattyheid Welsh, will write another crappy book about it. 

 

I've never seen the facination with glamourising murdering, criminal, scumbags. 

 

The Daily Record are terrible for it. 

Pandering to the west coast obsession with wanting to be a gangster. 

[ri Alban]

38 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I've never seen the facination with glamourising murdering, criminal, scumbags. 

 

The Daily Record are terrible for it. 

Pandering to the west coast obsession with wanting to be a gangster. 

Sunday Mail are the worst. Pathetic. Not half as bad as Hollywood, yet. Gun slinging, drugs and all out violence is their favourite subject, and people wonder why the USA is a headcase. Personally, I blame the coffee they consume. 

[Governor Tarkin]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Sunday Mail are the worst. Pathetic. Not half as bad as Hollywood, yet. Gun slinging, drugs and all out violence is their favourite subject, and people wonder why the USA is a headcase. Personally, I blame the coffee they consume. 

 

100% the coffee. 

[¼½¾]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

100% the coffee. 

I blame the Colombians.