TSG Hoffenheim - The dream continues

[JT Wooks]

Great story from Germany about this little known team. Wont sign anyone over 25 and Youth is given preference

 

http://soccerlens.com/tsg-1899-hoffenheim-the-fairytale-football-club/10174/

[Andy.C]

Hoffenheim are my new adopted german team (well, I never really cared about any other team to be fair). It is really an amazing story...apparently only a town of a few thousand folk aswell.

 

Really attacking team, with Ibisevic (will go on to big things) and Ba upfront. Also Salihovic in midfield is a excellent player.

 

Go on the heim!

[shaun.lawson]

You do realise what Hoffenheim are doing is exactly what Livingston tried to do a few years back, and Gretna attempted as well? They're getting pelters from old skool fans of all clubs in the Bundesliga.

[rudi must stay]

You do realise what Hoffenheim are doing is exactly what Livingston tried to do a few years back, and Gretna attempted as well? They're getting pelters from old skool fans of all clubs in the Bundesliga.

 

just because Livingston and Gretna failed doesn't mean that they will mate. Good on them for trying

[leginten]

You do realise what Hoffenheim are doing is exactly what Livingston tried to do a few years back, and Gretna attempted as well? They're getting pelters from old skool fans of all clubs in the Bundesliga.

 

The difference being that they appear able to fill Mannheim's 26,000 capacity stadium and may therefore prove to be sustainable as a major force. It seems as if they're doing things the right way.

I can't say the "fairy-tale" stuff appeals that much to me, though.

[shaun.lawson]

The difference being that they appear able to fill Mannheim's 26,000 capacity stadium and may therefore prove to be sustainable as a major force. It seems as if they're doing things the right way.

I can't say the "fairy-tale" stuff appeals that much to me, though.

 

True - and there are the examples of Villarreal and until latterly, Parma, to sustain them I guess. You know a lot about German football, legi - d'you follow a team over there at all?

[Charlie-Brown]

German football has much stricter regulations about clubs debts and financial losses and wages/turnover etc so they might not be doing exactly the same as Gretna & Livingston as the DFB (German FA) and the Bundesliga probably wouldn't allow it ... does anybody know if they are making big losses like Livi & Gretna were?

[leginten]

True - and there are the examples of Villarreal and until latterly, Parma, to sustain them I guess. You know a lot about German football, legi - d'you follow a team over there at all?

 

I don't know that much about it, in truth - I just watch it a lot on Setanta and admire the style of play there probably more than in any other major European league. I wish I did follow a team there, and I've consciously tried to choose one, but it's not happening for me! I'm monogamous when it comes to football, I'm afraid. I can't get it up for other teams.

I do intend to get myself over there and watch a couple of games in the near future, though. I'd love to see a game in Gelsenkirchen or in Dortmund.

[shaun.lawson]

German football has much stricter regulations about clubs debts and financial losses and wages/turnover etc so they might not be doing exactly the same as Gretna & Livingston as the DFB (German FA) and the Bundesliga probably wouldn't allow it ... does anybody know if they are making big losses like Livi & Gretna were?

 

http://soccerlens.com/tsg-1899-hoffenheim-the-fairytale-football-club/10174/

[leginten]

German football has much stricter regulations about clubs debts and financial losses and wages/turnover etc so they might not be doing exactly the same as Gretna & Livingston as the DFB (German FA) and the Bundesliga probably wouldn't allow it ... does anybody know if they are making big losses like Livi & Gretna were?

 

I don't know what these regulations stipulate exactly, and I'd be interested to find out. I do know that the Bundesliga clubs spend only around 45% of their income on salaries, which is a lower proportion than any of the other big leagues, and they also have a higher operating profit margin (18%). Combine that with the lowest average ticket prices and the highest average attendances and you have a recipe for a highly successful league.

 

Germany has resisted much of the "rich owner" culture by stipulating that single investors can own a maximum of 49% of the shares in any club. So I think the mega-rich have gone elsewhere, leaving the Bundesliga without the Ronaldos of this world but with a pretty strong domestic product. The downside is that German teams do not appear able to compete for the Champions League.

[GforGallo]

hope they get pumped sideways by every team they come up against.

 

They have a multi-millionare software owner who is bankrolling them and building something like a 30,000 seater stadium, think the town their from only has 3,000 people in it.

 

Hope bremen win the league this year but anyone but hoffenheim will do

[shaun.lawson]

I don't know what these regulations stipulate exactly, and I'd be interested to find out. I do know that the Bundesliga clubs spend only around 45% of their income on salaries, which is a lower proportion than any of the other big leagues, and they also have a higher operating profit margin (18%). Combine that with the lowest average ticket prices and the highest average attendances and you have a recipe for a highly successful league.

 

Germany has resisted much of the "rich owner" culture by stipulating that single investors can own a maximum of 49% of the shares in any club. So I think the mega-rich have gone elsewhere, leaving the Bundesliga without the Ronaldos of this world but with a pretty strong domestic product. The downside is that German teams do not appear able to compete for the Champions League.

 

Exactly. As a result of which, I can't help but think Bayern will begin pressurising for change before long. That it's simultaneously such a competitive league with cheap tickets and marvellous attendance levels while having been completely priced out of the CL goes hand in hand.

 

On the bright side though - in February 2005, I had a bet with a German friend of mine who was foolish enough to put his money where his mouth was. He bet me ?100 that no English team would win the CL within the next 5 years, including that season; so he was a hundred down within three months! Meanwhile, I bet him ?100 that no German club other than Bayern would even reach the CL semis over the 5 years starting from 05/6. I got a bit nervous last season about Schalke, but it's three down, two to go, and only Bremen can stop it becoming four down. As I told him at the time, my confidence had sod all to do with any delusions of grandeur about English football - and everything to do with what money is doing to the top level game across the continent.

[Charlie-Brown]

from the bundesliga website....

 

What are the criteria for the licence?

 

All clubs of the Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga have to meet the criteria in the Lizenzierungsordnung (LO) and its respective appendixes. These are sporting, legal, administrative, infrastructural, and financial (economical efficiency) criteria as well as criteria concerning security and media. All assumptions are of equal importance. The appropriate documents have to be handed in until March 15 each year by the candidates from the professional leagues. In addition, the assumptions for organising matches have to be proved until June 30.

 

If a club of the Bundesliga or 2. Bundesliga fails to get the licence for the new season, that club will be relegated to the regional league of its regional association. The club will therefore be seen as bottom of the table of the 2. Bundesliga in the previous season. The number of originally relegated clubs will be reduced accordingly.

 

If the licence is withdrawn from a club during the course of a season, that club will be relegated at the end of the season. All matches that club has already played or is due to play will be counted as victories for the opposition.

[CJGJ]

Wow -- small club backed by billionaire who can outspend all the lower league clubs --what's great about that ?

 

Anyone could get into the top league of any country in Europe that way -- no fairytale there or no magic to it.

 

Money talks and it boils down to how much and for how long their backer is prepared to fund their 'dream'

Lets not build it up as if it has never happened before.

[IMA MAROON]

Wow -- small club backed by billionaire who can outspend all the lower league clubs --what's great about that ?

 

Anyone could get into the top league of any country in Europe that way -- no fairytale there or no magic to it.

 

Money talks and it boils down to how much and for how long their backer is prepared to fund their 'dream'

Lets not build it up as if it has never happened before.

 

It's took them 15 years or so. The fans have been patient. They have given ther new owner time to get it right.

[Spellczech]

hope they get pumped sideways by every team they come up against.

 

They have a multi-millionare software owner who is bankrolling them and building something like a 30,000 seater stadium, think the town their from only has 3,000 people in it.

 

Hope bremen win the league this year but anyone but hoffenheim will do

 

I disagree. I think it's great that these things happen. Whether they are flash in the pan like in Scotland, where ALL clubs know that the OF attract a load of their potential fanbase with their own particular sort of brand attraction, to Germany where this guy seems to be going about things the right way, and building the club from the bottom up. Why should a new club not come along and succeed, just like new companies come along and kick the butts of stale, stolid old traditional firms...?

 

Lots of football followers are not fans. They are far more fickle than fans. Hearts have 8,000-12,000 fans but 2 years ago they had 17,000 ST holders and another 2000-3000 more followers on a waiting list. Arguably the majority of OF followers are indeed followers rather than fans. Success and bigotry are more the attraction than football IMO.

[Charlie-Brown]

The owner to be fair seems to have put a large part of the investement into building up the club infrastructure ie stadium, training facilities, youth academy etc although he has spent a decent wedge on the team but nothing like the amounts that Premiership teams frequently spend.

[Charlie-Brown]

Exactly. As a result of which, I can't help but think Bayern will begin pressurising for change before long. That it's simultaneously such a competitive league with cheap tickets and marvellous attendance levels while having been completely priced out of the CL goes hand in hand.

 

On the bright side though - in February 2005, I had a bet with a German friend of mine who was foolish enough to put his money where his mouth was. He bet me ?100 that no English team would win the CL within the next 5 years, including that season; so he was a hundred down within three months! Meanwhile, I bet him ?100 that no German club other than Bayern would even reach the CL semis over the 5 years starting from 05/6. I got a bit nervous last season about Schalke, but it's three down, two to go, and only Bremen can stop it becoming four down. As I told him at the time, my confidence had sod all to do with any delusions of grandeur about English football - and everything to do with what money is doing to the top level game across the continent.

 

The central european countries clubs (German, French, Dutch, Belgian) are already lobbying UEFA for change but change externally not internally - all these countries have much tighter controls on the way clubs finances are governed and most of these countries have seen high profile casualties of some of their clubs that over-extended themselves in the last couple of decades and firmly believe that their system has more vitality and is an inherently safer system of football governance than the model that operates elsewhere but primarily in England and Spain where clubs can have enormous debts and run at huge deficits limited only by their access to available finance - the Italians who have also seen some very high profile clubs (Parma, Fiorentina, Lazio) get into terrible financial difficulties have also moved in the direction of greater financial regulation of clubs - it is one of the key debates & discussions that might shape European football in the coming decades.....ultimately though the Europeans are correct and whilst the Big Spenders are enjoying the bulk of success just now you have to wonder about the long term viability of it all?

[shaun.lawson]

The central european countries clubs (German, French, Dutch, Belgian) are already lobbying UEFA for change but change externally not internally - all these countries have much tighter controls on the way clubs finances are governed and most of these countries have seen high profile casualties of some of their clubs that over-extended themselves in the last couple of decades and firmly believe that their system has more vitality and is an inherently safer system of football governance than the model that operates elsewhere but primarily in England and Spain where clubs can have enormous debts and run at huge deficits limited only by their access to available finance - the Italians who have also seen some very high profile clubs (Parma, Fiorentina, Lazio) get into terrible financial difficulties have also moved in the direction of greater financial regulation of clubs - it is one of the key debates & discussions that might shape European football in the coming decades.....ultimately though the Europeans are correct and whilst the Big Spenders are enjoying the bulk of success just now you have to wonder about the long term viability of it all?

 

It isn't viable, especially given the credit crunch. Football is cyclical - and the probable less monied era we're heading towards will undermine the huge advantages the English Big Four currently enjoy, and start to redress the balance. Who knows? Maybe English football could even become truly competitive again - though that's probably a dream too far.

 

One thing though. Fiorentina, Lazio and Roma all got into deep trouble - but such is the way of things in Italy, none have ultimately suffered consequences that severe. Parma are an exception - because they were a small club punching way above their weight thanks to a benefactor which went horribly pear shaped.

[Charlie-Brown]

I was thinking the other day that in the last couple of years in the real economy we saw record high prices in oil, gas, shares, commodities, house prices etc before they all crashed spectacularly into the economic mess that is unfolding before us in recent weeks & months......similarly in football - particularly UK football we have seen records highs in terms of players wages, transfer fees, transfer activity and even the price of buying football clubs with many changing ownership for tens and hundreds of millions of pounds - as with any boom (or even bubble) you can expect a bust or correction at some point although it never seems to be realised until after the event..........

[davemclaren]

I don't know that much about it, in truth - I just watch it a lot on Setanta and admire the style of play there probably more than in any other major European league. I wish I did follow a team there, and I've consciously tried to choose one, but it's not happening for me! I'm monogamous when it comes to football, I'm afraid. I can't get it up for other teams.

I do intend to get myself over there and watch a couple of games in the near future, though. I'd love to see a game in Gelsenkirchen or in Dortmund.

 

Ah the 2 stadiums I visited during the last world cup. Both well worth a visit. You know you want to follow 96.

[Charlie-Brown]

News Corp which owns BSkyB shares down 67% in last 52 weeks.

[leginten]

Ah the 2 stadiums I visited during the last world cup. Both well worth a visit. You know you want to follow 96.

 

I think I'd rather follow Kickers Offenbach, to be quite honest. No offence, but Hannover strike me as being just about the most faceless of the Bundesliga clubs. I did hear somewhere, though, that they were one of the clubs most interested in getting rid of the 49% rule - do they have a minted benefactor waiting in the wings?

[Cut The Crap]

I used to work for SAP, the company formed by their benefactor Dietmar Hopp.

 

I left in 1993, which was just around the time he was starting to show an interest in taking the club on. So while it's true their success has been "bought" to a large degree (what footballing success isn't?), he and they have been building it up for around 15 years now, in an effort to make it sustainable for years to come.

[Jambo Ell]

Whilst I loathe the whole buy your way up the leagues scenario a la Gretna & Livingston they do seem to be able to fill their ground unlike these two and they are usually a cert for the weekend coupon! (well not for the last 2 weeks..)

[braveheart]

was at the weekends game against wolfsburg.wanted to see their temporary home in mannheim before moving into their new stadium in january(last ground to see in top league).the fact that theres not any bundesliga teams in the area as helped them fill the stadium up till now.don,t know if those people who have bought the new scarves will travel the 45 minutes i think to sinsheim.not got a problem with this fellow(mr hopp)as he appears to be a local lad made good and is spending his wealth on local causes.has he not built the SAP arena in mannheim already or is it just sponsored?anyway hoffenheim played with a innocence that is refreshing nowadays.you score 1 and we'll score 2 attitude.their defence will eventually kill any hopes of the title but they will easily get into europe.