Was football better in the 80's?

[Walter Kidd]

Something I can't fathom is the standard of football from the Scottish Premier League just now.

 

When I was a lad Aberdeen won the Cup Winners Cup, Dundee Utd got to the semi finals of the European Cup and the final of the UEFA Cup. Hearts had a great team from 85 and played very decent football. Rangers and Celtic also had some great results in Europe in the 80's.

 

So, where did it all go wrong? Did the Taylor Report kill Scottish football? Is it the coaching? Or was it Rangers spending under Marlborough and Souness?

 

We are watching a pub league now in my opinion - of which Celtic and Rangers are head and shoulders above everyone.

 

Where did it all go wrong for Scottish Football?

[Chester™]

Its a many things which gets people thinking like that.

 

Foreigners, since Bosman, have generally been easier to deal with and a number can come cheaper. In the days of where profits etc are more important, the person who signs the cheques will go with the cheaper option. This has also led teams to forget about youth development and its only now where teams are reverting back to this.

 

Other countries have had academies etc for a lot longer than us and are using them to better advantage.

 

Other countries use better scouting systems and dont have WP rules and regulations as tight as us.

 

They also have more money floating about now than before.

 

Their leagues have got better than ours which was always going to happen IMO because of the failures of our system from the SFA at the top to the guy who runs the local school teams.

 

We were punching above our weight.

[Tasavallan]

The standard at grass roots level has fallen drastically. Scouts from English clubs no longer view Scotland as a major source of potential talent.

 

Money or more importantly lack of money has impacted what facilities clubs can provide.

 

We can watch games from all over Europe by satellite but not our lower leagues. Even by our home based networks has driven supporters away.

 

I was talking to a scout from an SPL club recently. He was tasked with looking for (in his words) 'big strong laddies' - skill was not considered an essential requirement. Mesi, C Ronaldo and Ronaldinho would not have had a look-in if they were born in this country.

 

[troonjambo]

Something I can't fathom is the standard of football from the Scottish Premier League just now.

 

When I was a lad Aberdeen won the Cup Winners Cup, Dundee Utd got to the semi finals of the European Cup and the final of the UEFA Cup. Hearts had a great team from 85 and played very decent football. Rangers and Celtic also had some great results in Europe in the 80's.

 

So, where did it all go wrong? Did the Taylor Report kill Scottish football? Is it the coaching? Or was it Rangers spending under Marlborough and Souness?

 

We are watching a pub league now in my opinion - of which Celtic and Rangers are head and shoulders above everyone.

 

Where did it all go wrong for Scottish Football?

 

my attitude is that there incomparable, the changes in the rules and the speed of the lighter ball in effect make comparisons near imposable .

 

to illustrate what i mean, think how zico (or most of the hearts defenders of that era)would have got on with modern tackling rules .:eek:

 

on the other side think how john colhoun would have got on with the protection wingers get from the refs now :eek:

 

if you twist my arm mate to make a call id say football was worse then...

but played to rules(tough) and in a atmosphere(hostile) and environment(cheep and cheerfull) more suited to a young man,s tastes rather than the family friendly tv fan feastival it has become

[Ben Dover]

From a Hearts perspective, the early 80s was surely the nadir - certainly in a footballing sense

In more general terms, we were probably coming to the end of the golden age too ?

The 80s may have been the last to profit from a bunch of youngsters who had been weaned on 40 a side games played up the park till the sun sank over the horizon !

We soon had, via the wonder of TV, wall to wall exposure to football from around the globe, and many other distractions too ?

Prior to that I can remember being absolutely gagging on the new season starting, just to get a glimpse of big-time football again

[Eggo]

Something I can't fathom is the standard of football from the Scottish Premier League just now.

 

When I was a lad Aberdeen won the Cup Winners Cup, Dundee Utd got to the semi finals of the European Cup and the final of the UEFA Cup. Hearts had a great team from 85 and played very decent football. Rangers and Celtic also had some great results in Europe in the 80's.

 

So, where did it all go wrong? Did the Taylor Report kill Scottish football? Is it the coaching? Or was it Rangers spending under Marlborough and Souness?

 

We are watching a pub league now in my opinion - of which Celtic and Rangers are head and shoulders above everyone.

 

Where did it all go wrong for Scottish Football?

 

 

 

 

It all went wrong with the school teachers strike that led to good schoolboy players giving up because no one would take the team on Saturday mornings!

Football worldwide is now mediocre,when you look at Brazil '70,even Celtics '67 side both were pure quality but now peoples ideas of quality are different.

[Gershwin]

All I remember from late 80s/early 90s school football was that we played in full size goals. The lob was a particular favourite of mine.

[bighalders]

The standard of the teams in the SPL is not as good as it was in the 80s' e.g. Celtic, Rangers Dundee Utd Aberdeen Hearts etc etc. I'd blame the coaching or lack of it for example we had a Scottish under 16 team get to the final of the world cup in 1989 or thereabouts, not enough of those players fullfiled their abilities going forward. Also back in the 80s when a scottish player left a premier league team they went to the top division in England, now the majority are heading for the lower english leagues. The calibre of player in Scotland is not wahat it was 20 - 25 yers ago IMO

[Old Nick]

Everything was better in the 80's, apart from that Thatcher woman being in power!

[Rods]

I also think the break up of the soviet union and yugoslavia did not help

[Eggo]

Everything was better in the 80's, apart from that Thatcher woman being in power!

 

 

 

 

Dont bring that evil bitch into this thread please:mad:

[Ben Dover]

The standard of the teams in the SPL is not as good as it was in the 80s' e.g. Celtic, Rangers Dundee Utd Aberdeen Hearts etc etc. I'd blame the coaching or lack of it for example we had a Scottish under 16 team get to the final of the world cup in 1989 or thereabouts, not enough of those players fullfiled their abilities going forward. Also back in the 80s when a scottish player left a premier league team they went to the top division in England, now the majority are heading for the lower english leagues. The calibre of player in Scotland is not wahat it was 20 - 25 yers ago IMO

 

That is surely the clearest indictment of the paucity of the talent up here now, and I don't think the foreign Bosman influx has or had anything to do with it. Nobody appears to have addressed this issue either, not the SFA nor the clubs - although whether the likes of Hearts breakfast club will have any bearing on it we will need to wait and see.

[portobellojambo1]

Something I can't fathom is the standard of football from the Scottish Premier League just now.

 

When I was a lad Aberdeen won the Cup Winners Cup, Dundee Utd got to the semi finals of the European Cup and the final of the UEFA Cup. Hearts had a great team from 85 and played very decent football. Rangers and Celtic also had some great results in Europe in the 80's.

 

So, where did it all go wrong? Did the Taylor Report kill Scottish football? Is it the coaching? Or was it Rangers spending under Marlborough and Souness?

 

We are watching a pub league now in my opinion - of which Celtic and Rangers are head and shoulders above everyone.

 

Where did it all go wrong for Scottish Football?

 

It is very much different now. I do believe the standard has dropped, quite dramatically, but not sure why, or rather my reasons why may differ from others. There are less "individual" stars, now although people at all clubs still have their favourites. I believe when Britain tried to become more like Europe, and play European style football the biggest sufferers were British teams. Apart from Manchester United and Chelsea getting to The Champs League final last year Britain has failed to maintain the dominance it had back in the good old days, when British teams played British style football, and the rest of Europe couldn't cope. Now we play their style, only they are better at it than us. The game is different now, but not in a beneficial way.

 

I agree with your summation of the SPL by the way, as leagues go it is

p i s s poor.

[bighalders]

That is surely the clearest indictment of the paucity of the talent up here now, and I don't think the foreign Bosman influx has or had anything to do with it. Nobody appears to have addressed this issue either, not the SFA nor the clubs - although whether the likes of Hearts breakfast club will have any bearing on it we will need to wait and see.

 

Yep, the SFA have a case to answer. I remeberwhen Scotland got hammered 6-0 by Holland and all the "blazers" went over for a junket. How many of them attended school kids games or the academy games to see how the dutch do it. The first sign of madness is to do the same thing over and over yet expect different results, Scottish fitba hasn't changed as far as I can see in recent years and the standard of scottish player proves this, we haven't moved with the times.

[Charlie-Brown]

Something are better now and some things are worse and somethings are a lot worse however prior to the breakup of the eastern bloc when an additional 20+ countries emerged Scottish club and national teams on the whole did better than they do now - also other countries have now surpassed us in many instances - the Old Firm are still strong because of their economic wealth but overall Scots sides do worse now they they did then in european & international competitions.

[Diego10]

The game is played at a far faster pace nowadays than it was back then. Much less time-wasting allowed, back passes outlawed which has not only sped the game up but lengthened it with far more kickouts from goalkeepers.

 

I think the skill level of players nowadays is generally no worse, but fitness is now more important and players are closed down far quicker than they used to be. The game is generally less entertaining to watch nowadays I think, but when you get a high quality game like Arsenal v Man U last week, the speed of it makes it more impressive.

[Craig Herbertson]

It all went wrong with the school teachers strike that led to good schoolboy players giving up because no one would take the team on Saturday mornings!

 

This was to do with insurance as well. Teachers were prevented from playing football with the kids and the paperwork became a mindboggling mess. Just to take the kids on to a park out of school involves writing Lord of the Rings.

 

I worked at an English school where the fanatical staff played every week. Every term We played an end of season game against the 6th form. A 17 year old pupil was getting into real touble so we played him on the staff team; Changed the kids life really; saw us all as vaguely human, never got into trouble again and played in the Lower English leagues.

 

All of this of course was illegal and we could have been sacked for doing it.

[BigBreezey]

Its a tricky one to judge players from 2 different eras, but when I look back to the 85-86 team, the individual players were not of that high a standard. Guys like Whittaker (RIP big man), Black, Kidd etc when not great players but paradoxically the 85-86 team was better than our team now in my opinion.

 

One thing that always raises questions for me is the crowd size in the 80s compared to now. Remember the days we used to get 29,000 squeezed into Tynie, and now we struggle to sell out 17,000 - 18,000 for games v the Old Form and the Pen nibs. If the capacity of Tynie was still 29,000 but was all seater, does anyone think we would sell out? (We would have during 2005-06 probably, but no chance now).

 

The training facilities and advances with sport science etc should mean the production of top class youth players should filter through soon (not just at Tynie, throughout Scotland) so hopefully in the next few years Hearts (and Scotland) can raise performances at home and abroad. Lets be honest, Scottish football is pretty dire at the moment. The SPL is close, but only because everyone is so poor.

[Eggo]

Its a tricky one to judge players from 2 different eras, but when I look back to the 85-86 team, the individual players were not of that high a standard. Guys like Whittaker (RIP big man), Black, Kidd etc when not great players but paradoxically the 85-86 team was better than our team now in my opinion.

 

One thing that always raises questions for me is the crowd size in the 80s compared to now. Remember the days we used to get 29,000 squeezed into Tynie, and now we struggle to sell out 17,000 - 18,000 for games v the Old Form and the Pen nibs. If the capacity of Tynie was still 29,000 but was all seater, does anyone think we would sell out? (We would have during 2005-06 probably, but no chance now).

 

The training facilities and advances with sport science etc should mean the production of top class youth players should filter through soon (not just at Tynie, throughout Scotland) so hopefully in the next few years Hearts (and Scotland) can raise performances at home and abroad. Lets be honest, Scottish football is pretty dire at the moment. The SPL is close, but only because everyone is so poor.

 

 

 

I also remember the 5000-6000 crowds on a regular basis,sometimes even less...so we shouldnt think that back then it was all wine and roses.

The big gates were against promotion rivals Dundee 25.500 and Morton 19.500 but those type of gates were few and far between.

[Smoked-Glass]

gotta bring back standing at matches and make the prices cheaper.

 

near 30 notes for a football match is criminal unless it's like a cup final or something.

[123kid]

The training facilities and advances with sport science etc should mean the production of top class youth players should filter through soon (not just at Tynie, throughout Scotland) so hopefully in the next few years Hearts (and Scotland) can raise performances at home and abroad. Lets be honest, Scottish football is pretty dire at the moment. The SPL is close, but only because everyone is so poor.

 

Despite the faclities I think the country will continue in failing to produce quality youth players.

 

Kids aren't given a chance at the old firm (where like it or not the best quality youngters are). And skillful kids fall through the cracks, as atheletes are preferred at all levels.

 

The old firm are to scared to lose a game to blood a youngster, and lower down the teams are to afraid of dropping points and missing out on prize money.

 

Also most kids pack it in when they discover bevvy. And more often than not, these are the best players in their school and districts.

 

We can blame the foriegners all we want, but look at Arsenal and Man U recently, quality youngsters are still getting a chance and coming through, despite the money floating around there.

 

I fear Scottish football will always be terrible.

[Hackney Hearts]

I

The big gates were against promotion rivals Dundee 25.500 and Morton 19.500 but those type of gates were few and far between.

 

19,399 v Dundee

12,033 v Morton .....

 

 

 

 

A. Pedant

[LH13]

The standard of refereeing in scotland hasn't changed since the 1980s, they're still dishing out inept/corrupt performances for the benefit of the gruesome twosome.

[Eggo]

19,399 v Dundee

12,033 v Morton .....

 

 

 

 

A. Pedant

 

 

 

That was the days when you squeezed up for the 2 for 1 unofficial turnstile attendant fund...and trust me there were more at these games than your figures suggest.

 

 

 

A. Twoforoneregular.

[Sherlock]

Going to the football was better in the '80's.

[Randle P McMurphy]

From a Hearts perspective, the early 80s was surely the nadir - certainly in a footballing sense

In more general terms, we were probably coming to the end of the golden age too ?

The 80s may have been the last to profit from a bunch of youngsters who had been weaned on 40 a side games played up the park till the sun sank over the horizon !

We soon had, via the wonder of TV, wall to wall exposure to football from around the globe, and many other distractions too ?

Prior to that I can remember being absolutely gagging on the new season starting, just to get a glimpse of big-time football again

 

I think this is right, your choice of leisure activity in the 70s and 80s was: football all year round

tennis for 2 weeks at wimbledon time (usually 1 or 2 raquets between the street)

golf for 2 weeks -same principle as wimbledon

any of the other chasing or hiding based games

 

To play for one of the age group teams in those days, you had to be an absolute stand out as there was only one team at each age group and only about 10 teams. Nowadays there are dozens of teams running 2 or 3 teams at each age level. I am all in favour of the kids getting a chance but the thing is a lot of them go to training and their game and that will be the only times each week they will play football.

 

Kids have just got far too many options now and it seems that the majority would rather live in some virtual PS3/360/TV/DVD world than actually be outside using their imaginations (christ I sound like my dad).

 

Is it any coincidence that the best players are still being produced from the most deprived parts of the world? Africa/ South America/ Eastern Europe and inner city kids from the major cities in Western Europe. Prior to the mid 80s Scottish kids would have fallen into these categories now sadly we are too prosperous!

 

Maybe the credit crunch will have a beneficial affect on our next batch of kids coming through!

[Debut 4]

The standard at grass roots level has fallen drastically. Scouts from English clubs no longer view Scotland as a major source of potential talent.

 

 

 

 

I played under 18`s in 1992 and then 4 years at under 21`s. Years after , i remember bumping into my old manager from the under 18`s who was formerly a Rangers scout and youth coach too.

 

It may have been around 2000 a good 8 years since finishing under 18s and he said the standard had really fell low and that our team was the last real genuine good side he had.

 

Most of us didn`t make it to pro level but many were good players who had trials etc.. but it showed that the standard was higher because the manager, in his opinion, said if he took our team from 1992 to that time many of the team would get picked up going by the current standard.

 

Another point being is, that we were all from the last of the dying breed of street football players. Everyone in that team was comfy on the ball and had a good degree of skill. In the 80`s growing up you were out from 10am to 10pm with a ball at your feet.(on holidays of course!)

 

These days most big grassy areas or streets are absolutely empty at weekends and that is really sad.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Something I can't fathom is the standard of football from the Scottish Premier League just now.

 

When I was a lad Aberdeen won the Cup Winners Cup, Dundee Utd got to the semi finals of the European Cup and the final of the UEFA Cup. Hearts had a great team from 85 and played very decent football. Rangers and Celtic also had some great results in Europe in the 80's.

 

So, where did it all go wrong? Did the Taylor Report kill Scottish football? Is it the coaching? Or was it Rangers spending under Marlborough and Souness?

 

We are watching a pub league now in my opinion - of which Celtic and Rangers are head and shoulders above everyone.

 

Where did it all go wrong for Scottish Football?

 

 

It's probably a combination of several things, the Taylor report meant that a lot of clubs had to spend money on grounds rather than on teams, the atmosphere suffered and some fans drifted away.

 

Rangers shot ahead because they had already upgraded Ibrox and the Souness/Malborough policy of buying the England team. Celtic eventually caught up under Fergus McCann and the whole thing became much more about finances than before.

 

Good shout by Eggo regarding teachers not taking School football on Saturdays and the fact that far fewer youngsters now actually play much football.

Kids spend more time indoors on computers that playing football,

 

The influx of mostly mediocre foreigners has probably not helped either.

 

More live football on TV (especially the higher quality Premiership) has lead to many not attending matches here.

 

Standards in the SPL have have dropped and internationally we are a poorer team, our record of qualification for the World Cup would back this up.

 

It's a sad state of affairs that I can't really see improving:sad:

[jack D and coke]

gotta bring back standing at matches and make the prices cheaper.

 

near 30 notes for a football match is criminal unless it's like a cup final or something.

 

I've been saying this for a few years now. If you've got kids taking them to the football is a total nonsense moneywise. For the rubbish you have to watch most weeks anything more than a tenner isn't worth it. I've probably gradually enjoyed it less and less since the introduction of all seater stadia to the point i wanted to chib the boy behind me before i gave up my season ticket. Other people no doubt feel the same about me but sitting listening to the same pish week after week also does nothing for the atmosphere imo.

 

People forget as well that when we used to get 29000 9-10000 was in the away end, huns/tims etc

[Debut 4]

The 80`s was no doubt better than today. Most teams where 99% full of homebred players and they competed with the best in europe.

 

Hearts(more mid to late 80`s), Celtic, Rangers , Aberdeen, Dundee Utd were in particular the best teams and quite good ones at that.

 

Games at Tynie v Aberdeen and even at the Hill of Dung were ocassions the fans really looked forward to outside games with the OF and Hubz.

 

They were also great days for travelling to games. You`d take 2500, 3 thou to places like Motherwell etc.. regularly and up to Aberdeen there could be in excess of 5000. They were also the days you`d have a few thousand at Ibrox and Darkheid.

 

I know older fans will say that was happening well before the 80`s but the 80`s was when i started going to games regularly although my first was in 1979 at the tender age of 5!.

[jambos are go!]

Bad defending = good football matches as Joe Mercer once said. Defenders are better prepared and fitter. Its easier to coach defence than attack. When I started watching Hearts full backs virtually never crossed into the opponents halve. They had a chat with the opponents winger until the ball came back up the field. No tracking back and one central defender.

[jambodan]

Dont bring that evil bitch into this thread please:mad:

 

She was and still is my hero

[Eggo]

She was and still is my hero

 

 

Not for much longer hopefully:) Hope its painful:)

And how that scottish hater can be hero worshipped defies belief,but your probably unwell as I type:cool:

[Randle P McMurphy]

Not for much longer hopefully:) Hope its painful:)

And how that scottish hater can be hero worshipped defies belief,but your probably unwell as I type:cool:

 

I hope Jambodan was joking.

 

My sentiments are the same as yours Eggo. I have been looking forward for the last 10 years (only the good die young) to the large day on the drink I will have when that monster finally shrugs off her mortal coil. I hope during this celebration I encounter some Thatcher defenders so I can explain how she ruined British society in the most obvious and brutal ways.

[Eggo]

I hope Jambodan was joking.

 

My sentiments are the same as yours Eggo. I have been looking forward for the last 10 years (only the good die young) to the large day on the drink I will have when that monster finally shrugs off her mortal coil. I hope during this celebration I encounter some Thatcher defenders so I can explain how she ruined British society in the most obvious and brutal ways.

 

 

He was craving a reaction,so I gave him a shot of fame;)

No-one in there right mind can defend the bitch from hell.

Get the champers ready as I seen her on the news and she looked genuine clog popping material:)

[Randle P McMurphy]

He was craving a reaction,so I gave him a shot of fame;)

No-one in there right mind can defend the bitch from hell.

Get the champers ready as I seen her on the news and she looked genuine clog popping material:)

 

This week would be good as I am off anyway. Still as long as she suffers I dont really mind.

[Charlie-Brown]

[davemclaren]

That was the days when you squeezed up for the 2 for 1 unofficial turnstile attendant fund...and trust me there were more at these games than your figures suggest.

 

 

 

A. Twoforoneregular.

 

These 2 crowds were in the 70s anyway.

 

A. Nother Pedant

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

It's a totally different sport these days. I actually prefer watching the slightly slower game of the 80s. But whatever you think, look at the Dundee Utd and Aberdeen teams from 1983, when they won the league and the Cup Winners Cup respectively:

 

McAlpine

Gough Hegarty Narey Malpas

Bannon Holt Kirkwood Milne

Sturrock Dodds

 

Leighton

Rougvie McLeish Miller McMaster

Strachan Cooper Simpson Weir

Black McGhee

 

Almost every one was a great player and most of them would be superstars in the SPL today.

[MrH]

Not sure about the football, but the moustaches were infinitely better in the '80s!

[Buffalo Bill]

It's a totally different sport these days. I actually prefer watching the slightly slower game of the 80s. But whatever you think, look at the Dundee Utd and Aberdeen teams from 1983, when they won the league and the Cup Winners Cup respectively:

 

McAlpine

Gough Hegarty Narey Malpas

Bannon Holt Kirkwood Milne

Sturrock Dodds

 

Leighton

Rougvie McLeish Miller McMaster

Strachan Cooper Simpson Weir

Black McGhee

 

Almost every one was a great player and most of them would be superstars in the SPL today.

 

 

I was just about to do the same thing: list players from that era.

 

You could also throw in McCoist, Durrant, Fleck, Johnston.

 

Or Charlie Nick, McStay, Proven (all complete winkers btw).

 

Or Mackay, Roberston, Levein, McPherson, Colquhoun for Hearts.

 

And I'm sure Hibs must have had a few good players too!!

 

 

Take the players from my list and add them to yours.

 

I bet none of them sat at home playing computer games all night.

 

We need to get kids playing for fun, developing skills and ball-control. We need to make them fast too.

 

Fast, skillful, clever players won Euro 2008 this year.

 

"Big strong laddies" weren't required.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Buffalo Bill]

And yes, it was more fun in the 80s.

 

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Eggo]

Not sure about the football, but the moustaches were infinitely better in the '80s!

 

 

 

Moustaches are the ultimate in gayness now,but we were all sporting them manly in the '80s.

Anyone on here who has a mouzer in the year of 2008,please stand back and look at yourself and realise how stupid it looks...SHAVE IT OFF! and enter the 21st century,your embarrassing yourself and your family:)

[Jam Tarts 1874]

I think this is right, your choice of leisure activity in the 70s and 80s was: football all year round

tennis for 2 weeks at wimbledon time (usually 1 or 2 raquets between the street)

golf for 2 weeks -same principle as wimbledon

any of the other chasing or hiding based games

 

To play for one of the age group teams in those days, you had to be an absolute stand out as there was only one team at each age group and only about 10 teams. Nowadays there are dozens of teams running 2 or 3 teams at each age level. I am all in favour of the kids getting a chance but the thing is a lot of them go to training and their game and that will be the only times each week they will play football.

 

Kids have just got far too many options now and it seems that the majority would rather live in some virtual PS3/360/TV/DVD world than actually be outside using their imaginations (christ I sound like my dad).

 

Is it any coincidence that the best players are still being produced from the most deprived parts of the world? Africa/ South America/ Eastern Europe and inner city kids from the major cities in Western Europe. Prior to the mid 80s Scottish kids would have fallen into these categories now sadly we are too prosperous!

 

Maybe the credit crunch will have a beneficial affect on our next batch of kids coming through!

 

Absolutely. When I revisit some of my old haunts where me and my Contemporaries grew up I never see any kids out playing football any more. We used to play every available minute, only going home to eat and sleep.

[Charlie-Brown]

This reminds of the old hovis adverts, when i was a lad....

[Goodmorningmrfisherman]

That was the days when you squeezed up for the 2 for 1 unofficial turnstile attendant fund...and trust me there were more at these games than your figures suggest.

 

 

 

A. Twoforoneregular.

 

Or the old shout of "anychance of a liftover mister";)

 

Many a sorehead withthe oldbassa at the wheatfield turnstyle booting the door back so he could try and knock you out.