When is it acceptable to cheat?

[MMHearts]

I'm listening to the Hull City v Man City match on Radio 5 and the commentator just came out with the following quote. A Hull player went down following a challenge and a foul was given. Both commentators agreed there was no contact and it shouldn't have been a foul, the player had dived and the expert summariser commented "clever play". Have we now got to the stage where this is not only accepted but lauded? We have Scott Booth using the euphemism "he made the referee make a decision" rather than "obvious dive"!

 

What is acceptable and what isn't? Today we had Maloney diving in the box to con the referee, players regularly go to ground and appeal to the ref yet whilst most players are at it, someget away with more than others. Miko was castigated for his dive at Hampden against Scotland yet this wasn't even the worst example in that game.

 

Has it now come to the stage that we expect every player to do this and it is acceptable if the decision goes for you but a scandal if against?

 

What is and what isn't acceptable

[maltese jambo]

I'm listening to the Hull City v Man City match on Radio 5 and the commentator just came out with the following quote. A Hull player went down following a challenge and a foul was given. Both commentators agreed there was no contact and it shouldn't have been a foul, the player had dived and the expert summariser commented "clever play". Have we now got to the stage where this is not only accepted but lauded? We have Scott Booth using the euphemism "he made the referee make a decision" rather than "obvious dive"!

 

What is acceptable and what isn't? Today we had Maloney diving in the box to con the referee, players regularly go to ground and appeal to the ref yet whilst most players are at it, someget away with more than others. Miko was castigated for his dive at Hampden against Scotland yet this wasn't even the worst example in that game.

 

Has it now come to the stage that we expect every player to do this and it is acceptable if the decision goes for you but a scandal if against?

 

What is and what isn't acceptable

 

Diving is part of the game; and it is particularly bad in the British leagues.

 

Many commentators and pundits turn a blind eye to it and pontificate that these leagues are clean from that kind of 'continental' behaviour, when infact you will see some of the worst diving here.

 

Its shameful the way Miko was treated; and continues to be treated by sheer idiots who only see what they want to see to fit in with their agenda.

[Gambo]

When is it acceptable to cheat?

 

When you play for one of the old firm?

[Brick Tamland]

1. When you are playing for the Old Firm

2. When you are referreeing an Old Firm game and they are in danger of getting beat

3. When you are referreeing an Old Firm game and they are in danger of drawing

[The Fonz]

IMO, diving isn't that bad. Example, if Miko dives against Celtic and wins a pen it's cheating. Is he more of a cheat than McManus or Caldwell who've been kicking lumps out of our strikers prior to the dive? No.

[hisnameis]

Watching setanta today Hartson and Butcher talking about the aberdeen boy and how he was "too honest" and stayed on his feet after being chopped by hibby. Had that been one of ours he'd have been A filthy cheat and all the rest. Sheer hipocracy.....

[neverlikedElvis]

I love it when miko dives.

[JamboSean]

When one of our players is in the box and a defender makes contact, I'm always saying to myself "go down son..". If you're going to get away with it and it will improve our result, go for it.

[jambojim52]

Just watched Setanta highlights and the ITC guy went down like a ton of bricks. There was shoulder contact but he claimed a penalty when no foul was committed. Why then was he not booked?

[ronnie_fife]

It's "clever-play" if a British player does it but cheating if a foreigner does it. I thought that was obvious.

[Frankenstein Jambo.]

don't mind the diving, but it ****es me off the way the roll about acting like they have been fecking shot or something. Its embarrassing to watch sometimes.

[DETTY29]

Just watched Setanta highlights and the ITC guy went down like a ton of bricks. There was shoulder contact but he claimed a penalty when no foul was committed. Why then was he not booked?[/QUOTE]

 

Because booking players ruins the game.

 

If under similar circumstances, every referee copied Tumilty - no foul, no penalty, no booking, this game might get some credibility (and consistency) back.

[jambojim52]

Just watched Setanta highlights and the ITC guy went down like a ton of bricks. There was shoulder contact but he claimed a penalty when no foul was committed. Why then was he not booked?[/QUOTE]

 

Because booking players ruins the game.

 

If under similar circumstances' date=' every referee copied Tumilty - no foul, no penalty, no booking, this game might get some credibility (and consistency) back.[/quote']

 

You have a point, in that is there is no concistancy NOW! I am all for refs treating everyone the same, but when will it happen? The law is in place and ref's should use it, where appropriate. Take for example the sheep v hubs game, the ref pulls up Jones and points out he has commited several fouls all over the pitch,but does not book him. Two min later he takes out Millar from behind and receives a card.This should have been his second, had the ref used the rules properly.

[Tazio]

It depends on how you define cheating.

 

In the purest definition every time a player gives a foul away he has cheated. Either by tripping or kicking a player it is against the rules. Diving is just a different flavour of cheating.

[Frankenstein Jambo.]

It depends on how you define cheating.

 

In the purest definition every time a player gives a foul away he has cheated. Either by tripping or kicking a player it is against the rules. Diving is just a different flavour of cheating.

 

How does it taste?

[Tazio]

How does it taste?

 

Bitter.

[topcat]

It depends on how you define cheating.

 

In the purest definition every time a player gives a foul away he has cheated. Either by tripping or kicking a player it is against the rules. Diving is just a different flavour of cheating.

 

Good post.

 

Diving is hardly a wonderfull thing to be rejoiced in but it seems to attract disprortionately more venomous criticism than the when hardmen midfielders rearrange opponents ligaments.

 

Or as Roy Keane put's it

"I'd waited long enough. I ****ing hit him hard. The ball was there (I think). Take that you ****. And don't ever stand over me sneering about fake injuries"

[Frankenstein Jambo.]

Good post.

 

Diving is hardly a wonderfull thing to be rejoiced in but it seems to attract disprortionately more venomous criticism than the when hardmen midfielders rearrange opponents ligaments.

 

Or as Roy Keane put's it

"I'd waited long enough. I ****ing hit him hard. The ball was there (I think). Take that you ****. And don't ever stand over me sneering about fake injuries"

 

that was an absoloute peach of a hit, he waited so long and the boom, take that you little ****.

 

Keane is my all time favourite player, even though he played for the filth.

[shaun.lawson]

It depends on how you define cheating.

 

In the purest definition every time a player gives a foul away he has cheated. Either by tripping or kicking a player it is against the rules. Diving is just a different flavour of cheating.

 

Actually, every time a player appeals for a throw-in when he knows it's gone out off him, he's cheated. But everyone does it. Ditto fans everywhere: we all cheat, because we're looking to give our team every advantage going.

 

Football is not, and has never been, a fair game - and in that sense, is a pretty good reflection of society. Increasingly, what Argentinians call viveza (cunning) is celebrated in Europe, and in the UK: it's fine as long as you get away with it, basically. My personal line is drawn at spitting, appealing to the ref to get an opponent sent off, and especially violent play aimed at injuring the opponent. Keane on Haaland is the best example of all; Kevin Muscat on Craig Bellamy will always stick in my mind too. I think in such extreme cases, players should be prosecuted if intent was obviously apparent.

 

One other thing. While I believe referees should be expected to publicly account for their decisions, and that we either live in a democracy or we don't when it comes to criticising them, I am increasingly tired of managers constantly taking the easy way out by slagging the officials in order to deflect attention away for poor results. It demonstrates no dignity, class, integrity or simple professional respect.

 

In the case of a real scandal (the Andy Davis incident, for example; or Rangers-Dundee United late last season), managers should be able to speak out without being sanctioned; but in many other cases, it's just petty and cynical, and makes the culture of the game ever worse. And in the most extreme cases, such as Jose Mourinho's comments about Anders Frisk four seasons ago, it can even lead to nutjobs issuing death threats. More responsibility and accountability for officials, players and managers is what I think the game dearly needs.

[Guest Fabuloso]

Any thoughts on Maradona? I think I know he answer...

[H2]

Cheating should never be accepatble. It is a real shame that players and managers don't have enough faith in their own ability to win without cheating.

 

In other walks of life you get sacked for cheating.

 

Imagine a cheating footballer going to court, to demonstrate his lack of integrity might be relatively simple.

[Miller Jambo 60]

1. When you are playing for the Old Firm

2. When you are referreeing an Old Firm game and they are in danger of getting beat

3. When you are referreeing an Old Firm game and they are in danger of drawing

 

We have very bad AND corrupt refs in Scotland.

You only had to watch the Hamilton game yesterday.

Celtic getting every decision and Hamilton getting Zero.

[hawaii]

Actually, every time a player appeals for a throw-in when he knows it's gone out off him, he's cheated. But everyone does it. Ditto fans everywhere: we all cheat, because we're looking to give our team every advantage going.

 

Football is not, and has never been, a fair game - and in that sense, is a pretty good reflection of society. Increasingly, what Argentinians call viveza (cunning) is celebrated in Europe, and in the UK: it's fine as long as you get away with it, basically. My personal line is drawn at spitting, appealing to the ref to get an opponent sent off, and especially violent play aimed at injuring the opponent. Keane on Haaland is the best example of all; Kevin Muscat on Craig Bellamy will always stick in my mind too. I think in such extreme cases, players should be prosecuted if intent was obviously apparent.

 

One other thing. While I believe referees should be expected to publicly account for their decisions, and that we either live in a democracy or we don't when it comes to criticising them, I am increasingly tired of managers constantly taking the easy way out by slagging the officials in order to deflect attention away for poor results. It demonstrates no dignity, class, integrity or simple professional respect.

 

In the case of a real scandal (the Andy Davis incident, for example; or Rangers-Dundee United late last season), managers should be able to speak out without being sanctioned; but in many other cases, it's just petty and cynical, and makes the culture of the game ever worse. And in the most extreme cases, such as Jose Mourinho's comments about Anders Frisk four seasons ago, it can even lead to nutjobs issuing death threats. More responsibility and accountability for officials, players and managers is what I think the game dearly needs.

 

But they can, if their name is Walter Smith

 

Was it just 2 weeks ago that Tango man was talking about players going down too easily (not Mikey Stewart though as he's Scottish) and now he's moaning about his own player NOT doing it??

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Its only cheating if your caught, if you get away with it its ok.

[Bulll]

wen you put england oot the world cup

[ChemicalJambo]

Watching setanta today Hartson and Butcher talking about the aberdeen boy and how he was "too honest" and stayed on his feet after being chopped by hibby. Had that been one of ours he'd have been A filthy cheat and all the rest. Sheer hipocracy.....

 

This is a big part of the problem, ref was correct to let the play go on, if he scored then goal and no action against the defender. As he didn't score, he should have pulled the play back, given the penalty and send off the defender.

 

But all that will happen now is Calderwood will tell the boy to go down next time. And once you start going down when its not physcially forced then you start 'anticipating' like Stewart did

[Spellczech]

For players: Whenever you get away with it.

 

For officials: Never.

[4marsbars]

If nobody ever cheated you could play without a ref.

 

That would be interesting.