Scotland missed Golden Generation?

[123kid]

Do you think Scotland has missed the chance of some sort of golden generation (and I dont mean world beaters) just a team that would be capable of qualifying and making it out of the world cup group stage (which, lets face it would be a golden generation).

 

Add these following players:

 

John Kennedy (Great defender, gettin rave reviews down South now, never going to be at the level he would have achieved).

Aiden McGeady Like him or hate him, hes the most technically gifted player to come out of Scotland in a long, long time. A winger destined for more than SPL football - a rarity.

James McCarthy Set to achieve his first Ireland Call up next month, just turning 18, world at his feet, according to Liverpool coaches he was better than Gerrard at that age, destined for the top.

Kris Boyd A player Scotland could have used to dispose of weaker opposition and avoid 0-0 draws against lesser teams, guaranteed game winner and best Scottish natural goal scorer of his generation - not likely to play again for Scotland.

Steven Smith Answer to the left back problem of Scotland, ruined by injury, will never get to same levels, missed to much football.

Keith Watson Apparently the best youngster Levein has worked with, been out for a long time after debut at 17 - LB.

Kevin Thomson A grafter would work great in a defensive Scottish line up, determined, leader on the pitch etc. Career on the rocks, most likely ruined.

Naismith Ruined by Rangers/Injury

Charlie Grant Celtic holding midfielder - when Scotland got to u19 Euro final against Spain, he was voted player of the tournament, highly regarded - now has been out for over 2 years with pelvic injury, apparently going to retire.

 

Curse of the Scottish footballer eh.

 

Think 5 years from now, the above players will be approaching on in their peak years (except McCarthy grant etc, who are younger).

 

Then add the current group (think 5 years on, further developed in their careers).

 

Gordon

Hutton

Scott Brown

McManus

Caldwell

Darren Fletcher

Steven Fletcher

Maloney.

McFadden

Morrison

 

 

Then add highly rated teens now, Fleck, Glen, Craig Thomson etc.

 

Not every player I mentioned was world class but look at the quality in every position.

 

We could have had a cracking team in 5 years, im thinking like a Croatia level. Shame the luck of the Scots, made us miss out.

[cosanostra]

Am I the only one who thinks that McGeady is only destined for Wolves or West Brom or something?

 

He's just not that good.

 

Not bad playing for Celtic in the SPL but I doubt he'd make it for a top half of the premiership team.

[Debut 4]

Thomson? Leader on the park? Can`t believe he got a move to Rangers. Can`t tackle either, mistimed slides his speciality.

 

Very overated.

[brownkg]

If the "golden generation" of then back in 98 had been given their chance instead of Dad;s army we might have been tlaking about a third generation now

[Groot]

Am I the only one who thinks that McGeady is only destined for Wolves or West Brom or something?

 

He's just not that good.

 

Not bad playing for Celtic in the SPL but I doubt he'd make it for a top half of the premiership team.

 

I agree, if you compare him with Maloney on the left wing, Maloney looks like a proper dribbler as he glides past players, McGeady relies on wee flicks past halfwit players not reacting to a move that any half decent defender see's a mile off

[shaun.lawson]

Scotland could well still qualify; and if so, could even make it out of the group stages. Stranger things have happened: that horse becoming Pope for one.

[CF11JamTart]

going back a few years, I reckon a "golden generation" that never fulfilled its promise included:

 

Derek Ferguson

Ian Durrant

Steve Fulton

Eoin Jess

 

and a bit later - Charlie Miller.

 

I would also have included Paul McStay, but I understand that he still has a lot of potential.

[cosanostra]

I agree, if you compare him with Maloney on the left wing, Maloney looks like a proper dribbler as he glides past players, McGeady relies on wee flicks past halfwit players not reacting to a move that any half decent defender see's a mile off

 

Have to agree Malky, I like Maloney better as well.

 

That goal he scored against us was an amazing finish.

 

(wee fecker:sad:)

[Ivan Drago]

Dont think any of the people mentioned are all that great to be honest, dont think any of them will ever be as good as Collins/Lambert/Mccallister personally.

[shaun.lawson]

Dont think any of the people mentioned are all that great to be honest, dont think any of them will ever be as good as Collins/Lambert/Mccallister personally.

 

As an Englishman, I love Gary McAllister.

[cosanostra]

As an Englishman, I love Gary McAllister.

 

Worst post ever.

 

You are a bad man Shaun.

[shaun.lawson]

Worst post ever.

 

You are a bad man Shaun.

 

I was there - and ****ing myself laughing at all the Scots chanting "2-0, who gives a ****?" on the walk back to Wembley Park. And don't the Tartan Army realise that we all hate Jimmy Hill too?

[jamboinglasgow]

I agree, if you compare him with Maloney on the left wing, Maloney looks like a proper dribbler as he glides past players, McGeady relies on wee flicks past halfwit players not reacting to a move that any half decent defender see's a mile off

 

I would agree with that. You never really see McGeady play well when he comes up against the big teams (I dont think he has even had a good game against rangers) but Maloney is a much better player and sadly underplayed by Scotland. It is lucky for Celtic that he is so homesick that they got him back.

 

And as you say the players in that group are a golden age missed and a scotland team would benefit from having them, it is very sad when a really promising player gets a devastating injury when really young (good luck Danny Thomson, heres hoping you make it through that injury fine.)

 

However I would argue that there is still a golden generation about to happen. Scotland is starting to feel the effects of increased investment in youth football that major clubs have done and players are starting to come through that are better than others. John Fleck is standing out at Rangers, while others are coming through at teams both in Scotland and England.

 

Hearts I can see being a driving force for Scottish national players just like we used to be. Remember times when there was 5 hearts players in the first team, well that can happen (may still be a few years but the players are there.) As you said players like C Thomson, Husband, Templeton, Glen, Delands, J. Brown, J. Stewart, S Robinson (once he comes back from injury) and others are either on the bring of the first team or the edge of the next stage of the U19s. Even players such as Jamie Walker, Chris(?) Holt and David Smith are the next players that could stand out well at hearts but are still really young so wont be in the U19s for another season at least (though Holt has been an unused sub a few times for the 19s.) Hearts youth system should produce players of a better quality and with Csaba putting even more emphasis on Skill over fitness (he once said they were doing too much fitness and not enough skill) for the youth system than I can see us producing good players that will benefit the country.

 

But we must not concentrate too hard on who we lost, we still have some great young players excelling and being forgetten, such as Scott Arfield (a player I would love at hearts), Kevin McDonald (both of whom are only 20 and playing regular football in the SPL and Championship respectivly) also others such as Steven Fletcher and Callaum Elliot (I know but if he could get the confidence from his loan spell and reclaim is old potential would still be a good player) things are starting to look up for Scotland, but it may take a year or two.

[CraigSN1]

I was there - and ****ing myself laughing at all the Scots chanting "2-0, who gives a ****?" on the walk back to Wembley Park. And don't the Tartan Army realise that we all hate Jimmy Hill too?

 

Hibs ****.

[shaun.lawson]

Hibs ****.

 

 

I'd say I deserve that.

[N User]

I'm not a huge fan of McGeady and i've been dissapointed by Maloney.

 

McGeady is a decent player, but the wankathon the meejia have over him is too much.

Maloney has great talent but could have been much more.

 

Celtic youngsters get too easy a time in the SPL.

They're good for the SPL but they get all the breaks and generally don't have to deal with the rough and tumble other players at other teams have to deal with. Because of this they don't develop as well, you only need to look at how Ferguson and Maloney came back up north with their tails between their legs to see that.

[Carl Weathers]

Great thread!

 

I feel sorry for John Kennedy - getting injured like that in a Scotland friendly is a terrible shame.

 

Judas Webster has also missed a large chunk of his career and I wonder if he was fit would he be playing for Scotland?

 

McCarthy could be the biggest blow but only time will tell.

 

Fingers crossed we get a big time player coming through soon. Someone like Gerrard or Rooney would be good. I've heard a bit about Fleck at Rangers but have never seen him play.

[jamboinglasgow]

Great thread!

 

I feel sorry for John Kennedy - getting injured like that in a Scotland friendly is a terrible shame.

 

Judas Webster has also missed a large chunk of his career and I wonder if he was fit would he be playing for Scotland?

 

McCarthy could be the biggest blow but only time will tell.

 

Fingers crossed we get a big time player coming through soon. Someone like Gerrard or Rooney would be good. I've heard a bit about Fleck at Rangers but have never seen him play.

 

I would agree with that, think something that McCarthy demonstrates that the SFA needs to look better at players at a young age, there is a bit of a bias towards the old firm players in the early age groups. I still think alot more Hearts players deserve to be in the scotland squads then are chosen.

 

As for Fleck, I was fortunate to watch his first competitive game in the cup. He has a pace and control of the ball that is much better than his peers. I would say he can go on big runs like Theo Wilcott does. If anyone saw the cup final and his run where he set up Barry perfectly only for the captain to miss a good chance. I think he will be an important player for Scotland but I still think there are Hearts player that are just as good or even better than him (dont mean he is bad, he is really good but some of the hearts players are really good at that age as well.)

[Say What Again]

Think 5 years from now, the above players will be approaching on in their peak years

 

Then add the current group.

 

Caldwell

 

WTF?

[shaun.lawson]

There was a time, around a decade ago, when I thought four of the five British Isles sides had a young player who seemed destined for very big things.

 

England: Michael Owen

Wales: Craig Bellamy

Ireland: Robbie Keane

Scotland: Mark Burchill

 

I wonder who's the odd one out in that list? Just goes to show that nothing can be taken for granted, and how many youngsters don't quite make it. Indeed, it's arguable that none of the four truly fulfilled their potential - even allowing for Owen winning the Ballon d'Or in 2001.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

There was a time, around a decade ago, when I thought four of the five British Isles sides had a young player who seemed destined for very big things.

 

England: Michael Owen

Wales: Craig Bellamy

Ireland: Robbie Keane

Scotland: Mark Burchill

 

I wonder who's the odd one out in that list? Just goes to show that nothing can be taken for granted, and how many youngsters don't quite make it. Indeed, it's arguable that none of the four truly fulfilled their potential - even allowing for Owen winning the Ballon d'Or in 2001.

 

Only one made the big time. Mark Burchill.

 

[Ray Winstone]

There was a time, around a decade ago, when I thought four of the five British Isles sides had a young player who seemed destined for very big things.

 

England: Michael Owen

Wales: Craig Bellamy

Ireland: Robbie Keane

Scotland: Mark Burchill

 

I wonder who's the odd one out in that list? Just goes to show that nothing can be taken for granted, and how many youngsters don't quite make it. Indeed, it's arguable that none of the four truly fulfilled their potential - even allowing for Owen winning the Ballon d'Or in 2001.

 

Mark Burchill seemed to have the world at his feet.

 

I dont really know where it all went wrong for him?

 

I want to say he moved down south too early but IIRC Celtic were happy to get rid of him......perhaps someone will correct me.

 

Craig Brown is obviously to blame for Scotland missing out on a whole generation of talent by letting players like Boyd, Burley, Hendry, McCallister etc play for way to long.

 

There will have been players out there ready to make the grade but were not given the chance.

 

Now....who knows....perhaps with a bit of luck Scotland can pull it together and squeeze through the qualifiers but I cant be sure whether the players are of good enough quality to make an impression in 2010.

[shaun.lawson]

Mark Burchill seemed to have the world at his feet.

 

I dont really know where it all went wrong for him?

 

I want to say he moved down south too early but IIRC Celtic were happy to get rid of him......perhaps someone will correct me.

 

Craig Brown is obviously to blame for Scotland missing out on a whole generation of talent by letting players like Boyd, Burley, Hendry, McCallister etc play for way to long.

 

There will have been players out there ready to make the grade but were not given the chance.

 

Now....who knows....perhaps with a bit of luck Scotland can pull it together and squeeze through the qualifiers but I cant be sure whether the players are of good enough quality to make an impression in 2010.

 

He's at Rotherham now: scary... I can't understand it either. But then, successful people always talk about the luck they needed in order to make it: being in the right place at the right time, that sort of thing. Maybe Burchill was just spectacularly unlucky at the most vital phase of his career in terms of managers, players brought in ahead of him (eg. Chris Sutton) and not having the chance to establish himself anywhere? It's a mystery really. You look at someone like Scott Brown, who I think is a class act, and compare what he's done to what Burchill achieved, and it makes no sense at all.

 

There'll always be stories like these, though. For further evidence, google the names Nii Lamptey or, at a more tender age, Sonny Pike.

[The People's Chimp]

If the "golden generation" of then back in 98 had been given their chance instead of Dad;s army we might have been tlaking about a third generation now

 

Spot on. Pa Broon's geriatric mob did all the damage.

[Carl Weathers]

Spot on. Pa Broon's geriatric mob did all the damage.

 

To be fair to Craigy Broon, he got us to the major tournaments.

 

Somewhere along the line we seemed to falter. I don't think it's because Broon didn't play any youngsters, I just don't think their were many good enough to bring in at that time.

 

Even though Berti made a James Hunt of it, he basically had to start again as Broon's team were past it and there was no-one in-between. A lot of blame should be pointed at SPL managers of that time (although I doubt Dick Advocaat etc will care) who bought in a lot of Foreigners instead of playing young talent.

 

It took us a few years to get where we are now and I think if the SPL continues to invest in youth we'll start qualifiying for the tournaments again.

 

I also think England's national team will start to stuggle (or at least continue to underachieve) if they continue playing so many Foreigners in their top division.

 

Scottish and English players could benefit by moving abroad (like the French) but this hardly seems to happen.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Did Burchill not do a cruciate and miss 18 months almost right after signing for pompey?

 

Pretty sure he did and thats what killed his career.

 

That aside even last season most dunfermline fans reckoned he could be a decent SPL striker and the rotherham move was for cash

[Carl Weathers]

Did Burchill not do a cruciate and miss 18 months almost right after signing for pompey?

 

Pretty sure he did and thats what killed his career.

 

That aside even last season most dunfermline fans reckoned he could be a decent SPL striker and the rotherham move was for cash

 

He had one really bad injury and loads of niggling injuries.

[shaun.lawson]

Did Burchill not do a cruciate and miss 18 months almost right after signing for pompey?

 

Pretty sure he did and thats what killed his career.

 

That aside even last season most dunfermline fans reckoned he could be a decent SPL striker and the rotherham move was for cash

 

He did have a serious injury, yes - and was out for 10 months. Injuries are the other thing that can ruin careers, of course: they're a big reason Owen was never quite as good as we all hoped down here; and Bellamy's always had problems ever since the appalling Kevin Muscat took him out with one of the worst fouls I've ever seen. For which, incidentally, Muscat wasn't even booked, and commentator Big Wrong Atkinson couldn't see what the problem was: it's not only in Scotland that referees and pundits are lousy.

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

I'd agree that Brown played certain players far longer than he should have, although McAllister I would argue could have played for Scotland longer than he did. He signed for Liverpool at 35/36 and was fanatstic for them, and would have been a great guy to have around the likes of Ferguson who were starting to come through (with an already unrealistic level of expectation placed on them). Having someone like Gary Mac in there IMO would have helped the transition. I'll never understand why McCoist didn't take that pen at Wembley mind.

 

Guys like Boyd, Lambert, Hendry, Leighton were all past the their best long before they stopped getting capped.

[Ray Winstone]

I'd agree that Brown played certain players far longer than he should have, although McAllister I would argue could have played for Scotland longer than he did. He signed for Liverpool at 35/36 and was fanatstic for them, and would have been a great guy to have around the likes of Ferguson who were starting to come through (with an already unrealistic level of expectation placed on them). Having someone like Gary Mac in there IMO would have helped the transition. I'll never understand why McCoist didn't take that pen at Wembley mind.

 

Guys like Boyd, Lambert, Hendry, Leighton were all past the their best long before they stopped getting capped.

 

Perhaps it was retiring from the international scene that allowed McCallister those extra years in the top flight of English football?

 

Was McCallister not the designated Penalty taker for Scotland at the time?

 

I am sure he took them for Leeds and Coventry.

[TNCASTLE]

There has not been a "proper" Scotland player since Souness and Dalglish. I suspect never again unfortunately.

[123kid]

Great thread!

 

I feel sorry for John Kennedy - getting injured like that in a Scotland friendly is a terrible shame.

 

Judas Webster has also missed a large chunk of his career and I wonder if he was fit would he be playing for Scotland?

 

McCarthy could be the biggest blow but only time will tell.

 

Fingers crossed we get a big time player coming through soon. Someone like Gerrard or Rooney would be good. I've heard a bit about Fleck at Rangers but have never seen him play.

 

I fear McCarthy was our Gerrard.

[Fraggle]

Craig Brown is obviously to blame for Scotland missing out on a whole generation of talent by letting players like Boyd, Burley, Hendry, McCallister etc play for way to long.

 

Spot on. Pa Broon's geriatric mob did all the damage.

 

Lets not forget Andy Roxborough in all of this either!!! He was just as bad as Brown.

 

The real vilians in all of it were the SFA! With their complete failure to implement any real youth policy, all we got was "It'll take at least five years to get off the ground". Five years later and it was the same pash again.

[jamboinglasgow]

Lets not forget Andy Roxborough in all of this either!!! He was just as bad as Brown.

 

The real vilians in all of it were the SFA! With their complete failure to implement any real youth policy, all we got was "It'll take at least five years to get off the ground". Five years later and it was the same pash again.

 

find it curious that your criticising Andy Roxborough. I dont know enough of his time at Scotland to know if he was a benefit or burden for Scottish footballs future generations but just find interesting considering he is now FIFAs (I think) head of football development.

 

I do think the SFA has to take blame. They promise a coherent strategy on youth football but never deliver. They need to do a real restructuring for some parts. Also I think they should try and seek money from the scottish government so that it can be ploughed better into the youth ranks. That would create new generations which could be even more golden.

[Walter Kidd]

There has not been a "proper" Scotland player since Souness and Dalglish. I suspect never again unfortunately.

 

I disagree with that. Gary McAllister was a fantastic player and was booed at Parkhead (nothing to do with his allegiance to Rangers, I'm sure) and retired there and then.

 

The Tartan Army support them ever more though don't they???

[Seymour M Hersh]

find it curious that your criticising Andy Roxborough. I dont know enough of his time at Scotland to know if he was a benefit or burden for Scottish footballs future generations but just find interesting considering he is now FIFAs (I think) head of football development.

 

I do think the SFA has to take blame. They promise a coherent strategy on youth football but never deliver. They need to do a real restructuring for some parts. Also I think they should try and seek money from the scottish government so that it can be ploughed better into the youth ranks. That would create new generations which could be even more golden.

 

The man is useless. He was as useful and welcome to Scotland as a fart in a space suit. I remember before the 90 WC in Italy him and Pa Broon doing a tour. Went to the one at the Grosvenor Hilton at haymarket and to hear the ****** excuses for not taking one of the country's top goal scorers (John Robertson) was cringe-worthy in the extreme. Him and Broon set Scottish football back decades. That's why he's at feefa now, he has no clue!! Just like that other rat-piece Taylor who is Platini's right hand bitch!

[Fraggle]

The man is useless. He was as useful and welcome to Scotland as a fart in a space suit. I remember before the 90 WC in Italy him and Pa Broon doing a tour. Went to the one at the Grosvenor Hilton at haymarket and to hear the ****** excuses for not taking one of the country's top goal scorers (John Robertson) was cringe-worthy in the extreme. Him and Broon set Scottish football back decades. That's why he's at feefa now, he has no clue!! Just like that other rat-piece Taylor who is Platini's right hand bitch!

 

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[heart & soul]

It's time to start again with Scottish football, at both National and Domestic levels. There's no money in the game so the SFA should be making every effort to encourage home grown talent. Anyone who watches under 10's + football will know that the majority of coaching is based around pace, physical strength and the ability to hoof the ball out of the park when things get a little tricky. There is no nurturing of technical skills as they are viewed as a luxury rather than necessity. This needs to be addressed if we are going to compete at a credible level.

Look at nations like Greece or Turkey and how they have progressed in a relatively short period of time. England beat Turkey 8-0 less than a decade ago. Teams like Fenerbahce who have a sound base of technically gifted homegrown players, would walk the SPL.

As far as I'm concerned football is our national sport only we are too proud to admit that we've got it all wrong. Instead, we compare ourselves to the English and look to their failure for crumbs of comfort rather than working towards our own triumph.

[Eggo]

I was there - and ****ing myself laughing at all the Scots chanting "2-0, who gives a ****?" on the walk back to Wembley Park. And don't the Tartan Army realise that we all hate Jimmy Hill too?

 

 

 

Shall I send you kneepads so as not to ruin you trousers crawling:cool:

[Spellczech]

It cannot be a "golden generation" if players with potential never reach that potential. Yes we can have regrets about the likes of Durrant and Kennedy who got injured, but others like Eoin Jess and Charlie Millar were just overhyped, so could it not be that some of the players who got crocked were also just a crock of sheeete?

 

To me this is like the endless "What if" threads about Burley in 2005...pointless.

[jamboinglasgow]

It's time to start again with Scottish football, at both National and Domestic levels. There's no money in the game so the SFA should be making every effort to encourage home grown talent. Anyone who watches under 10's + football will know that the majority of coaching is based around pace, physical strength and the ability to hoof the ball out of the park when things get a little tricky. There is no nurturing of technical skills as they are viewed as a luxury rather than necessity. This needs to be addressed if we are going to compete at a credible level.

Look at nations like Greece or Turkey and how they have progressed in a relatively short period of time. England beat Turkey 8-0 less than a decade ago. Teams like Fenerbahce who have a sound base of technically gifted homegrown players, would walk the SPL.

As far as I'm concerned football is our national sport only we are too proud to admit that we've got it all wrong. Instead, we compare ourselves to the English and look to their failure for crumbs of comfort rather than working towards our own triumph.

 

That is quite a fair comment. Things need to change accross the board in Scotland, though I feel we are in a better posistion than we were five years ago but we still can do so much more. As you say the idea of technical skills is seen as a luxury and that is the problem. The physicalness of our game can be a problem but when matched with great skills than it is so much better. Just look at the players who get rave reviews in the reserves, Husband and Templeton. Those two have great skills, ones that is greater than other players in Scotland. But they will be an exception.

 

Scotland needs to forget results at an early age, look at results in maybe one or two competitions in a year but play games where players are allowed to be creative. A footballers brain develops through how they handle situations, giving them a chance to try things out helps them develop rather than tell them to just hard tackle or punt it up the park if they get it. As I remember someone saying once, "coaches shouldn't tell youngsters to be competitive, the players will do that anyway, it is more important to give them shape and direction."

 

I think Croatia is a good country to look at, they have about the same population as Scotland yet produce much supperior quality players, have a league which is not as high up in the rankings as Scotland and have done well in most major football competitions. It would be worthwhile to look at why they are doing so well. I do think Hearts youth academy is teaching technique now more than physque. One thing which demonstrates is the number of tiny technical good players in the youngsters and reserves (Templeton, R. Wallace and S Robinson.) More youth acadmeys that appear the better Scotland should be.

[spacerjoe]

There was a time, around a decade ago, when I thought four of the five British Isles sides had a young player who seemed destined for very big things.

 

England: Michael Owen

Wales: Craig Bellamy

Ireland: Robbie Keane

Scotland: Mark Burchill

 

I wonder who's the odd one out in that list? Just goes to show that nothing can be taken for granted, and how many youngsters don't quite make it. Indeed, it's arguable that none of the four truly fulfilled their potential - even allowing for Owen winning the Ballon d'Or in 2001.

 

What exactly has Craig Bellamy achieved? Far more than Burchill for sure, but compared to Owen and Keane?!

[bigandy]

I'd agree that Brown played certain players far longer than he should have, although McAllister I would argue could have played for Scotland longer than he did. He signed for Liverpool at 35/36 and was fanatstic for them, and would have been a great guy to have around the likes of Ferguson who were starting to come through (with an already unrealistic level of expectation placed on them). Having someone like Gary Mac in there IMO would have helped the transition. I'll never understand why McCoist didn't take that pen at Wembley mind.

 

Guys like Boyd, Lambert, Hendry, Leighton were all past the their best long before they stopped getting capped.

 

 

TBF McAllister was generally a better penalty taker than McCoist. I think McCallister only missed 2 or 3 in his entire career. I saw McCoist miss a few including on for Scotland when we got another one later in the same game that a certain John Robertson tucked away.

[Ben Dover]

Sorry folks, same old rant from me

 

1) What happened to Ernie Walkers 'think tank' for a start ?

2) Small nation ? ...........FFS Scandinavia contains small nations but they are technically 100% better than us ( albeit they generally disappoint at national level ) and remember it's freekin dark up there for 4 months of the year ?

Croatia blow that myth out the water too................"ah, small boys.......shell cases for goalposts"

 

The SFA will doubtless point you to a 'healthy' standing in the Fifa tables ....

something we achieved with two fluke wins over France + the overall sh*teness of the rest of the teams around us !!