Chris Benoit Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 At last someone can see through the bullsh*t peddled by the filth from Leith :107years::107years::107years::107years::107years::107years: Villarreal prove small clubs have big hopes Oct 2 2008 Stuart Cosgrove WHEN Scottish clubs play in Europe I apply two strict rules - always wish them well but don't get involved in the emotional pain of it all. Defeat is the most likely outcome and disappointment the most probable story line. The mathematicians among us will argue we should stand behind every Scottish team as it is good for the co-efficient and the fragile feelgood factor of the national game. I have enough worries with my own team without lunging full pelt into the debris of other clubs or identifying with the doomed fortunes of the Scots in Europe. So I wished Celtic well against Villarreal and want to see Motherwell give FC Nancy a torrid time at Fir Park and claw back the one-goal that separates the clubs. But to say I was supporting them would be wrong. I have not bought aticket, I will be watching on the telly and I have not owned a Motherwell scarf since Harry Potter made them look like Colin and Justin's winter woollies. I can only find it in my cold heart to chant for one club and one country. Celtic's defeat at Villarreal was all too predictable. Enough has been written about their poor away form in Europe to fill the Mitchell Library and, when the time came, they had nothing to offer when breaking their miserable record was essential. Onlythe most deluded fan can believe they can rescue their campaign now But, ironically, it is not Celtic that should feel shame, those who didn't play at all should feel more than a moment of discomfort when they hear the name Villarreal. Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hearts and Hibs should hang their heads in shame because a small Spanish town has shown them how insipid their title campaigns have been in the last 10 years. Villarreal are a formidable team, especially at home, and have quietly built one of the best defences in football. Central defenders Gonzalez Rodriguez and Diego Godin stroll through games with imperious self-confidence, as if they had been watching videos of Aberdeen with Miller and McLeish at their height. What we easily forget is they are asmall club who have turned their stadium, El Madrigal, into a citadel where big reputations are regularly ruined. Villarreal have a domestic history more modest than, say, St Mirren and yet they have risen to the peaks of European football and done what the also-rans of Scotland seem incapable of doing - standing up to the big-money teams. Nor are they alone. Deportiva la Coruna and Real Mallorca regularly face up to the best in La Liga. Last season Villarreal finished 10 points ahead of Barcelona in second place, an achievement comparable with Falkirkcoasting ahead of Rangers and waving to them in the rear mirror. We are told money talks in football and while this is generally true it is also the case that money can be beaten and even the richest clubs can be tricked into submission. When I hear the name Villarreal I don't think of Celtic's misfortunes but of the lame challenges Dundee United and Aberdeen in particular have put in over the last decade. Both are out of SPL contention and there are still leaves on the trees. Hearts have been so distracted by events off the pitch they are barely credible challengers. As for Hibs, they are back to their favourite pastime of dreaming. Surely no club in history has such aromantic view of themselves as the Easter Road outfit. It only takes two good performances on the trot for them to believe they have a team that can take on the world. The return of their prodigal son, Derek Riordan, seems only to have complicated their condition. Rather than persist with the ludicrous idea that their brand of football is superior to all else, Hibs should build a team like Villarreal, hard to beat and only entertaining when the hard work is done. Villarreal were quietly confident they were superior to Celtic and that is now a matter of fact. But they also taught Scottish football three lessons. Firstly, spending money is not the only route to success. Secondly, by refusing to lose they discovered the first big step to winning football matches. Thirdly, talent can be shaped into a unit that can overcome bigger, more famous clubs. Except for a miracle, Celtic are out of the Champions League and the biting irony is they were beaten by Aberdeen. If only the feckless Dons could re-ignite the values of Villarreal they may begin to connect back to their greatest days in the 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 We are told money talks in football and while this is generally true it is also the case that money can be beaten and even the richest clubs can be tricked into submission. Villareal are a prime example, rather than a counterexample, of moey talking in football. Their success being driven by a local ceramics tycoon Fernando Roig who invested around ?50m in the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Villareal are a prime example, rather than a counterexample, of moey talking in football. Their success being driven by a local ceramics tycoon Fernando Roig who invested around ?50m in the club I don't know much about the ins and outs of Spanish football but before I saw your post I did wonder how much more cash was available to teams in La Liga in terms of tv rights and things, never mind having a rich benefactor. It just doesn't seem like a fair comparison at all. I like Stuart Cosgrove though, he's one of the only football writer types that doesn't make me want to poke my own eyes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praha06 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 As for Hibs, they are back to their favourite pastime of dreaming. Surely no club in history has such aromantic view of themselves as the Easter Road outfit. It only takes two good performances on the trot for them to believe they have a team that can take on the world. The return of their prodigal son, Derek Riordan, seems only to have complicated their condition. Rather than persist with the ludicrous idea that their brand of football is superior to all else, Hibs should build a team like Villarreal, hard to beat and only entertaining when the hard work is done. Spot on Cosgrove. Always found him rather entertaining. On this occasion not only entertaining but 100% correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Always liked him I like Tam Cowan too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Firstly, spending money is not the only route to success. Secondly, by refusing to lose they discovered the first big step to winning football matches. Thirdly, talent can be shaped into a unit that can overcome bigger, more famous clubs. Exactly what is lacking in the current hearts setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
this_is_my_story Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Good read, Cosgrove barely writes a bad article at all. Very refreshing to hear his accurate views on Hibs, makes you wonder why it has taken so long for any journo to call time on the flair myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods_mouser Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Hardly complimentary about Hearts though is he??? Nothing like being selective though eh lads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Benoit Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share Posted October 2, 2008 Hardly complimentary about Hearts though is he??? Nothing like being selective though eh lads? Can't disagree with what he says about Hearts but the thread is about someone in the media finally seeing through the "flair" myth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rememberwilliegibson Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 cosgrove seems to have an agenda against both Edinburgh clubs, although he hates the hobos more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 cosgrove seems to have an agenda against both Edinburgh clubs... Not to me he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarhead Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Villareal are a prime example, rather than a counterexample, of moey talking in football. Their success being driven by a local ceramics tycoon Fernando Roig who invested around ?50m in the club I am no expert on Villareal but I took his point to be not how rich they are compared to us but how they are able to compete with the mega rich clubs in Spain. The thing is, it is easy to say ourselves and the other mid ranking teams should be doing better but as soon as we do challenge we don't have the finances to keep hold of the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirlo Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I've always respected both Cosgrove and Cowan - neither are afraid to say what they think even if it upsets the "big 2". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 What Villareal are rich in is 'attitude'. Quite simply, they don't give a ****. And they're always on hand to wipe the pavement with the Old Firm. I only wish those in power within Tynecastle had the same outlook; and more importantly - the ability to channel it. Buffalo Bill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I've been saying this for years about fans attitudes Hibs win 2 games in a row and they are going to win the cup and be back in their "rightful place in the league" according to their fans. Hearts lose 2 games in a row and we're utter rubbish and it's all finished for that season according to Hearts fans. I'm not sure what is better, their dumb optimism or our dogged pessimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Hardly complimentary about Hearts though is he??? Nothing like being selective though eh lads? Fancy a Scottish Cup party reptile? Thought not. My balls? SOOK THEM. Sub human scoooooom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I'm not sure what is better, their dumb optimism or our dogged pessimism. Well we've got the Diggers, so does that answer your question? Buffalo Bill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Well we've got the Diggers, so does that answer your question? Buffalo Bill . And they have the 'four' or 'the nip'. Nuff said mate. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 cosgrove seems to have an agenda against both Edinburgh clubs, although he hates the hobos more. Aye he must have been on that anti-edinburgn agenda when he and cowan gave JKB the top fan's website award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in leith Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 What Villareal are rich in is 'attitude'. Quite simply, they don't give a ****. And they're always on hand to wipe the pavement with the Old Firm. I only wish those in power within Tynecastle had the same outlook; and more importantly - the ability to channel it. Buffalo Bill . And channel the money in the right direction BB. What frustrates me is the amount of cash that has been burnt on total wasters like Pinilla, Beslija, Nade etc. I think we might have the right man in charge now, but unfortunately he now has a mid table squad of players to work with now we are tightening our belt financially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I spoke to the OP earlier on about this thread and I'm a bit miffed by Cosgrove's comparisons, Villareal are not in the same financial positionas Real Madrid & Barca (not many are) but they are certainly not paupers and the money they wheel about is certainly far closer to the big two in Spain than any of the Scottish clubs Cosgrove mention in comparison with the Glasgow grusome twosome. As was mentioned during Tuesday's commentary Forlan & Pires both left England to go to Villareal and both got a substantial pay increase so they must be paying some good wages. I'm also quite sure Riquelme wouldn't have been short of a few bob when he was with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodemac Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 At last someone can see through the bullsh*t peddled by the filth from Leith :107years::107years::107years::107years::107years::107years: Villarreal prove small clubs have big hopes Oct 2 2008 Stuart Cosgrove WHEN Scottish clubs play in Europe I apply two strict rules - always wish them well but don't get involved in the emotional pain of it all. Defeat is the most likely outcome and disappointment the most probable story line. The mathematicians among us will argue we should stand behind every Scottish team as it is good for the co-efficient and the fragile feelgood factor of the national game. I have enough worries with my own team without lunging full pelt into the debris of other clubs or identifying with the doomed fortunes of the Scots in Europe. So I wished Celtic well against Villarreal and want to see Motherwell give FC Nancy a torrid time at Fir Park and claw back the one-goal that separates the clubs. But to say I was supporting them would be wrong. I have not bought aticket, I will be watching on the telly and I have not owned a Motherwell scarf since Harry Potter made them look like Colin and Justin's winter woollies. I can only find it in my cold heart to chant for one club and one country. Celtic's defeat at Villarreal was all too predictable. Enough has been written about their poor away form in Europe to fill the Mitchell Library and, when the time came, they had nothing to offer when breaking their miserable record was essential. Onlythe most deluded fan can believe they can rescue their campaign now But, ironically, it is not Celtic that should feel shame, those who didn't play at all should feel more than a moment of discomfort when they hear the name Villarreal. Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hearts and Hibs should hang their heads in shame because a small Spanish town has shown them how insipid their title campaigns have been in the last 10 years. Villarreal are a formidable team, especially at home, and have quietly built one of the best defences in football. Central defenders Gonzalez Rodriguez and Diego Godin stroll through games with imperious self-confidence, as if they had been watching videos of Aberdeen with Miller and McLeish at their height. What we easily forget is they are asmall club who have turned their stadium, El Madrigal, into a citadel where big reputations are regularly ruined. Villarreal have a domestic history more modest than, say, St Mirren and yet they have risen to the peaks of European football and done what the also-rans of Scotland seem incapable of doing - standing up to the big-money teams. Nor are they alone. Deportiva la Coruna and Real Mallorca regularly face up to the best in La Liga. Last season Villarreal finished 10 points ahead of Barcelona in second place, an achievement comparable with Falkirkcoasting ahead of Rangers and waving to them in the rear mirror. We are told money talks in football and while this is generally true it is also the case that money can be beaten and even the richest clubs can be tricked into submission. When I hear the name Villarreal I don't think of Celtic's misfortunes but of the lame challenges Dundee United and Aberdeen in particular have put in over the last decade. Both are out of SPL contention and there are still leaves on the trees. Hearts have been so distracted by events off the pitch they are barely credible challengers. As for Hibs, they are back to their favourite pastime of dreaming. Surely no club in history has such aromantic view of themselves as the Easter Road outfit. It only takes two good performances on the trot for them to believe they have a team that can take on the world. The return of their prodigal son, Derek Riordan, seems only to have complicated their condition. Rather than persist with the ludicrous idea that their brand of football is superior to all else, Hibs should build a team like Villarreal, hard to beat and only entertaining when the hard work is done. Villarreal were quietly confident they were superior to Celtic and that is now a matter of fact. But they also taught Scottish football three lessons. Firstly, spending money is not the only route to success. Secondly, by refusing to lose they discovered the first big step to winning football matches. Thirdly, talent can be shaped into a unit that can overcome bigger, more famous clubs. Except for a miracle, Celtic are out of the Champions League and the biting irony is they were beaten by Aberdeen. If only the feckless Dons could re-ignite the values of Villarreal they may begin to connect back to their greatest days in the 80s. good piece of journalsim and spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Benoit Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 I spoke to the OP earlier on about this thread and I'm a bit miffed by Cosgrove's comparisons, Villareal are not in the same financial positionas Real Madrid & Barca (not many are) but they are certainly not paupers and the money they wheel about is certainly far closer to the big two in Spain than any of the Scottish clubs Cosgrove mention in comparison with the Glasgow grusome twosome. As was mentioned during Tuesday's commentary Forlan & Pires both left England to go to Villareal and both got a substantial pay increase so they must be paying some good wages. I'm also quite sure Riquelme wouldn't have been short of a few bob when he was with them To be honest bruv think what Cosgrove is trying to say is that Villareal are a small club in comparison to the "big two" and shouldn't be challenging for the league but still managed to split them last season! I wonder if we'll ever see anything like that happen in Scotland? Anyway this thread isn't about Hearts it's about about sticking it to h*bs and their hoof-ball delusions! :107years::107years::107years::107years::107years::107years: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rememberwilliegibson Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Aye he must have been on that anti-edinburgn agenda when he and cowan gave JKB the top fan's website award. they do a fair bit of sooking up too but if you watch you'll see the mask slip from time to time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 they do a fair bit of sooking up too but if you watch you'll see the mask slip from time to time Aye, but if i was on off the ball i'd rip into teams like united, aberdeen murderwell. No one would get an easy ride...otherwise what would be the point? Did cosgrove not say he preferred the jt's to the hobbits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vanderlay Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Cosgrove is a very intelligent guy and a serious player in the media industry, in wider realms than football. Compare that most scottish fitba journos. He puts them to shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scallywag Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 On the subject of the deluded.....check out Claderwoods story in the Dailty Record. "I'll sacrifice total football approach to keep fans happy" Ha ha !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawaii Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Pretty sure that Villareal got a good team by buying South American talent - something that no club in Scotland can replicate due to the WP situation. Anyone know why Spanish, Dutch and Italian clubs can buy youngsters from abroad without needing a WP? Surely Europe is one big market so UK clubs are at a disadvantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 they do a fair bit of sooking up too but if you watch you'll see the mask slip from time to time Nah, don't get that at all - did Stuart Cosgrove not write the foreword for that book of 'artistic' photographs of Tynie that came out a couple of years back? What Cosgrove says about Hearts is usually spot on and does not contain 10% of the aggression handed out by us on JKB so we can't complain when someone points out that Hearts are in a spot of bother these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Spackler Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I've been saying this for years about fans attitudes Hibs win 2 games in a row and they are going to win the cup and be back in their "rightful place in the league" according to their fans. Hearts lose 2 games in a row and we're utter rubbish and it's all finished for that season according to Hearts fans. I'm not sure what is better, their dumb optimism or our dogged pessimism. That pretty much sums it up! I like Stuart Cosgrove. And Tam Cowan. I don't think either have any serious agendas which is what I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 As for Hibs, they are back to their favourite pastime of dreaming. Surely no club in history has such aromantic view of themselves as the Easter Road outfit. It only takes two good performances on the trot for them to believe they have a team that can take on the world. The return of their prodigal son, Derek Riordan, seems only to have complicated their condition. Rather than persist with the ludicrous idea that their brand of football is superior to all else, Hibs should build a team like Villarreal, hard to beat and only entertaining when the hard work is done. Spot on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Cosgrove is a very intelligent guy and a serious player in the media industry, in wider realms than football. Compare that most scottish fitba journos. He puts them to shame. He's excellent on Radio Scotlands (non-football) daytime shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Pretty scathing of all teams outwith the OF but to be fair the OF are only saved from similar criticism because they have the odd good run - perhaps once a decade for Rangers and 3-4 times a decade for Celtic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Harris Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Cosgrove is a very intelligent guy and a serious player in the media industry, in wider realms than football. Compare that most scottish fitba journos. He puts them to shame. indeed, head of "Nations and Regions" for Channel 4 I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sked21 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 What makes Villareal is their fantastic scouting network where they find fantastic players for very little money (Well in todays football). Just look at the players they have got from South America. Nihat on a free. Forlan for very little as well as Santi Cazorla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo27_22 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 He's bang on with all aspects of the piece. One 2nd place finish and 2 cups in 10 years is not good enough for a club of our supposed size. The indulgant side of Edinburgh need to get their head out of their arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavsy Van Gaverson Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 What makes Villareal is their fantastic scouting network where they find fantastic players for very little money (Well in todays football). Just look at the players they have got from South America. Nihat on a free. Forlan for very little as well as Santi Cazorla. Nihat????? He was signed from Real Sociedad in Spain, and is Turkish. Diego Forlan plays for Athletico Madrid and has done so for over a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sked21 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Nihat????? He was signed from Real Sociedad in Spain, and is Turkish. Diego Forlan plays for Athletico Madrid and has done so for over a year. Sorry. I was unclear. I didn't mean Nihat was South American. It was a general comment that they have some great South American's along with quality shrewd signings like Nihat and Forlan who was bought and sold to Athletico for a tidy profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japanjambo Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Stuart Cosgrove has more intelligence in his wee finger than most journalists have in their whole being! Lynn:ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Stuart Cosgrove has more intelligence in his wee finger than most journalists have in their whole being! Lynn:ninja: he's your wee pal lynn eh? i've heard your bits on off the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanyl Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Pretty sure that Villareal got a good team by buying South American talent - something that no club in Scotland can replicate due to the WP situation. Anyone know why Spanish, Dutch and Italian clubs can buy youngsters from abroad without needing a WP? Surely Europe is one big market so UK clubs are at a disadvantage? its all down to the fact that pretty much all of south America used to be part of spain. lots and lots of Spanish people moved to places like Argentina and Uruguay.... so these people who have a grandparent or parent who is from spain can get a Spanish passport and thus play there a lot of Italians moved to south america too and you have a large number of them in Argentina so they too can get a passport for italy. same goes for the Brazilians / Portuguese not sure about the dutch but i know that Belgium has a special passport thing with many english clubs taking advantage of it.... i.e. the man u Chinese guy getting a workpermit by becoming a Belgium citizen i doubt scottish clubs can afford to pay the wages of a person for 3 years without being able to play him! in theory they could play in scotland too as having a spanish / italian passport allows this but there is the language barrier with it being much easier for them to communicate with people who speak their own language. they can get paid more playing in the big european leagues. add to that the climate.... its warm in south america its cold in scotland its warm in southern europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dik Mar Van Nostrilboy Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 fantastic ye canny beat it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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