Stand - Council requesting an extension re decision

[PTBCAL]

I understand that the Council will request an extension of time of up to 12 months prior to making a decision regarding the application for the new stand.

 

Reasons include concerns over redesign of certain aspects of the project, lack of information from Hearts and Nursery relocation.

 

Sorry - this is all I know.

 

Probably not a bad decision to make - let's see where we/economy are at in 12 months time.

[marshallschunkychicken]

I wouldn't be unhappy with that.

 

Does anyone know the score with the safety certificate on the main stand, and how this would be affected by a delay?

 

Cheers

[Bomber Harris]

lack of information from Hearts

 

No surprise there then

[adayinmay]

So very predictable.

The Council have had well over a year to decide whether this application is suitable. If there are concerns on certain minor issues they could easily give permission with one or two conditions attached.

That would allow everyone to move forward and plan.

 

The state of the Economy is irrelevant.

Hearts have stated that the project will be funded externally so its someone else's decision whether to fund it, not Hearts FC. The stand will be an asset owned by UBIG, not Hearts.

 

It will be interesting to see Romanov's response to this. I reckon its exactly the get clause he wants.

[Cut The Crap]

So very predictable.

The Council have had well over a year to decide whether this application is suitable. If there are concerns on certain minor issues they could easily give permission with one or two conditions attached.

That would allow everyone to move forward and plan.

 

The state of the Economy is irrelevant.

Hearts have stated that the project will be funded externally so its someone else's decision whether to fund it, not Hearts FC. The stand will be an asset owned by UBIG, not Hearts.

 

It will be interesting to see Romanov's response to this. I reckon its exactly the get clause he wants.

 

Suspect he will be publicly indignant, but privately relieved.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Disappointing news, although as others have said you would have to question any spend on a capital project in the current environment.

 

We await His Vladness's response.

[Thig Ar Latha]

I agree this may well be the get out clause that Vlad wants. However, in fairness if Hearts are talking about redesigning various elements, it's pretty difficult to give planning permission on a scheme where there do not have the full design.

 

Hearts have applied for full planning permission not outline, so that needs to be reflected in the scheme. I get the impression that the issues are not that minor but are relatively significant changes and its Hearts as opposed to the council who are dragging there heels.

 

I don't see a big issue with it being delayed 12 months. If Hearts disagree they will have the right to object to it, however, I doubt they will.

 

Given the ammount paid in design fees etc, it would'nt be much of a get out clause. A lot of wasted money. Given the current financial climate a delay could well be welcome though.

 

As far as re-design of parts goes, a lot of that could be down to changes the Council have asked for in the past.

[Guest jambomickey]

i don't believe the new stand will ever be built under this regime

[PTBCAL]

I have been a big supporter of the re-development but I am not overly disappointed at this news.

 

Within this financial climate and our own questionably ability to fund such a project - I think 12 months gives all parties (esp Hearts) a chance to re-visit the whole project.

 

Should we spending such money?

 

Should we look at upgrading the existing Main Stand - it can be done relatively cheaply.

 

Could it be that we may have NEW owners in 12 months?

 

I hope Hearts respond to this news and in a professional manner.

[Deevers]

Suspect he will be publicly indignant, but privately relieved.

 

Who knows? This latest development may even give him the excuse he's needed to sell up and move on.

[topcat]

Am I to understand that a global crisis in the financial sector leading to a worldwide shortage of capital wouldn't constitute a "get out clause" but problems with the paperwork would?

[Guest jambomickey]

I have been a big supporter of the re-development but I am not overly disappointed at this news.

 

Within this financial climate and our own questionably ability to fund such a project - I think 12 months gives all parties (esp Hearts) a chance to re-visit the whole project.

 

Should we spending such money?

 

Should we look at upgrading the existing Main Stand - it can be done relatively cheaply.

 

Could it be that we may have NEW owners in 12 months?

 

I hope Hearts respond to this news and in a professional manner.

 

paul when do hearts ever respond in a professional manner? if will either be the councils fault or the scotthish mafia, might even be the refs or sfa's fault knowing that paranoid control freak

[letsalllaughathobos]

i don't believe the new stand will ever be built under this regime

have to agree with you there, we just seem to be going back insted of forward.

[redm]

I'd be surprised if it was a delay requested on the grounds of re-design issues, they're normally catered for in the status of the decision given. In fact, the whole thing sounds a wee bit weird but I'm sure more will come out in the wash.

 

I'd be more inclined to think it probably has something to do with the distillery, council land deal and/or the nursery arrangements. The plans for progressing that side of things was timetabled for near enough completion by January 2009 I think so things being the way they are, that deadline could be a little less achievable.

 

I s'pose we'll just have to wait and see.

[Deevers]

Am I to understand that a global crisis in the financial sector leading to a worldwide shortage of capital wouldn't constitute a "get out clause" but problems with the paperwork would?

 

Admitting to having problems with funding would be one thing for him - probably amounting to admission of failure on his part as he might see it. Using exasperation with the Council and the bureaucracy involved with the whole project would be quite convenient for him - and a save of face.

[PTBCAL]

paul when do hearts ever respond in a professional manner? if will either be the councils fault or the scotthish mafia, might even be the refs or sfa's fault knowing that paranoid control freak

 

I suspect that we will hear nothing from the club for a while. But I agree that it may well be 'someone else's fault'.

 

Mind you - the Council have requested an ext to the timeline - they might not get it.

 

Just as a footnote - someone hinted to me last week privately that some political pressure may occur regarding the stand decision over the coming months - I believe we have just witnessed it. As as far I was made aware - we were fairly close to getting approval and now this?

[Jammy T]

A lot of wasted money. .

 

That kind of sums up Vlad's entire ownership of the club

 

From players wages to compensation payments to SFA fines to a protracted and tardy planning application etc etc

[redm]

I suspect that we will hear nothing from the club for a while. But I agree that it may well be 'someone else's fault'.

 

Mind you - the Council have requested an ext to the timeline - they might not get it.

 

Just as a footnote - someone hinted to me last week privately that some political pressure may occur regarding the stand decision over the coming months - I believe we have just witnessed it. As as far I was made aware - we were fairly close to getting approval and now this?

 

What sort of political pressure do you think they were hinting at?

[PTBCAL]

Its a huge get out clause because times have changed when the scheme was initially envisaged. I have little doubt that whne the initial plans were done the numbers added up, however, I doubt they add up now.

 

Whilst, it would be refereshing for Hearts to come out and say that the scheme was on hold whilst they revisted the viability of it. Can you honestly see Vlad doing that? Is it not more likely that Vlad will blame the beauocracy of the Council and how they are preventing development and jobs to safeguard the future of the club?

 

I understand the re-design are down to Hearts, though no doubt the Council will want to change some things, however, I doubt these are new issues. PTBCAL might be able to clarify.

 

From what I hear - Hearts are dragging their heels over discussing proposed changes and being awkward in replying to Council requestes for further information.

 

I am shocked that Hears would act in such a manner.

[PTBCAL]

What sort of political pressure do you think they were hinting at?

 

Let's put it another way - will Vlad be here in 12 months?

 

With no decision on the stand, money problems, world wide credit crunch - maybe 12 months might see Vlad decide enough is enough.

[Guest jambomickey]

From what I hear - Hearts are dragging their heels over discussing proposed changes and being awkward in replying to Council requestes for further information.

 

I am shocked that Hears would act in such a manner.

 

paul it's been obvious that pedro lopez with vlads say so has been fecking about

[PTBCAL]

That kind of sums up Vlad's entire ownership of the club

 

From players wages to compensation payments to SFA fines to a protracted and tardy planning application etc etc

 

A bit harsh to say 'tardy'.

 

The council have been impressed with the application.

 

I think they are unimpressed with Hearts communication.

[Guest jambomickey]

Let's put it another way - will Vlad be here in 12 months?

 

With no decision on the stand, money problems, world wide credit crunch - maybe 12 months might see Vlad decide enough is enough.

 

12 months might see vlad decide enough is enough! can't come quick enough for me to be honest mate

[lambojambo]

So very predictable.

The Council have had well over a year to decide whether this application is suitable. If there are concerns on certain minor issues they could easily give permission with one or two conditions attached.

That would allow everyone to move forward and plan.

 

The state of the Economy is irrelevant.Hearts have stated that the project will be funded externally so its someone else's decision whether to fund it, not Hearts FC. The stand will be an asset owned by UBIG, not Hearts.

 

It will be interesting to see Romanov's response to this. I reckon its exactly the get clause he wants.

 

 

 

Perhaps the silliest thing I have read on KB!

[blairdin]

I agree this may well be the get out clause that Vlad wants. However, in fairness if Hearts are talking about redesigning various elements, it's pretty difficult to give planning permission on a scheme where there do not have the full design.

 

Hearts have applied for full planning permission not outline, so that needs to be reflected in the scheme. I get the impression that the issues are not that minor but are relatively significant changes and its Hearts as opposed to the council who are dragging there heels.

 

I don't see a big issue with it being delayed 12 months. If Hearts disagree they will have the right to object to it, however, I doubt they will.

 

I don't buy the bit in bold. One word for you - trams! There are numerous streets in/areas of the city where tramtracks are to be laid but as yet no decision about exact location or layout. Haymarket is the obvious one that means alot to many of us, given the lack of certainty over the McCraes memorial.

 

In the current climate I don't think a delay is a bad thing for Hearts. If the stand is to be financed externally, surely it will be a much more appealing development if there are signs of economic recovery when work starts.

 

What Hearts must do is respond appropriately and answer any council concerns.

[Samster]

The state of the Economy is irrelevant.

 

Quite the opposite, I would say it was probably the most relevant consideration of all.

[Jammy T]

A bit harsh to say 'tardy'.

 

The council have been impressed with the application.

 

I think they are unimpressed with Hearts communication.

 

Tardy as in the manner it has been dealt with

 

The best CEO / MD in the clubs history (IMO) apparently got booted partly because of his delays on this issue 3 months into his job, 3 years later you are commenting that Hearts have been dilatory (ie tardy) in responding to certain things

 

We dont exactly win friends and influence people at management level do we?

 

And it seems as if incompetence at Hearts is rewarded with the continuation of your employment - Pedro, Botchup, Cervenkov etc

[lambojambo]

Quite the opposite, I would say it was probably the most relevant consideration of all.

 

 

 

CORRECT!!

[Buffalo Bill]

.

[The Don]

To be honest, this wouldn't be a bad thing for us financially, I do not think spending millions on this type of project in this current climate is prudent, and Vlad may well be slightly relieved if this does happen, as then he has an excuse for not starting the work when he said it would start.

 

However a few other things. For the council to take that long to decide a planning application is ridiculous, any concerns they have with it, could and should have been addressed long before now. These plans were not drawn up on the back of a notebook, they were drawn up by one of the top stadium design architects at a cost of some 1million+, We then have to look into the Nursery land which Vlad has bought which he was held to ransom over by parents whose children attend the nursery, and the cost of the new nursery (If i recall some 5million).

 

Then we have the estimated cost of the project 51million. Will it really cost Hearts/UBIG 51million? NO. Vlad is trying to encourage outside investors, someone who will be interested in the hotel, also selling some of the units and Flats, he is also looking at a naming rights for the new stand, which would generate millions (And could potentially pay for the stand part itself) of course finding investors in this climate will prove extremely difficult.

 

Vlad or one of his co-horts said only a few weeks ago if the council were going delay too much longer then they would be looking to renegotiate the land value and deal they made with the council for the puchase of land, given that land values are dropping considerably. This could be deemed as Vlad stalling or starting to work his get out clause, but i would also see it IF he is serious about this project as a wise course of action.

 

I do believe that, Vlad/UBIG defintely intended to go ahead with this, and still would, after all why waste the money and man hours they have so far on some elaborate "Pull the wool over our eyes" scheme, but given then financial dangers at present i believe they would be more than happy to put this on the back burner until it makes better financial sense.

[Gibbo]

According to this EEN article UNESCO has asked that major projects in Edinburgh be put on hold until a review of the City's World Heritage status was completed.

 

It was published in August and at the time I didn't connect it to our development because of the location of Tynecastle, but could this be the political pressure mentioned by PTBCAL above? UNESCO's issue seems to be the skyline, which would be effected even by a project outside the city centre.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I think that if the club don't continue to express a will to develop the stand, supporters groups should ask Vlad to name his price to leave the club. Although I think Csaba's appointment has been excellent and I think he is slowly improving things, the reality is that Vlad has lost all credibility with our support, to the extent that no one believes anything issued off the field.

 

I also think that if there are potential suitors out there, they should make themselves known.

[Cut The Crap]

I think that if the club don't continue to express a will to develop the stand, supporters groups should ask Vlad to name his price to leave the club. Although I think Csaba's appointment has been excellent and I think he is slowly improving things, the reality is that Vlad has lost all credibility with our support, to the extent that no one believes anything issued off the field.

 

I also think that if there are potential suitors out there, they should make themselves known.

 

There are still a few, Geoff. Mercifully, their numbers are now only marginally greater than the level of their own credibility.

[Jammy T]

I think that if the club don't continue to express a will to develop the stand, supporters groups should ask Vlad to name his price to leave the club. Although I think Csaba's appointment has been excellent and I think he is slowly improving things, the reality is that Vlad has lost all credibility with our support, to the extent that no one believes anything issued off the field.

 

I also think that if there are potential suitors out there, they should make themselves known.

 

An excellent pragmatic post.

 

I'd disagree slightly with Csaba's appointment comment.

 

In the context of Vlad's ownership it is potentially his second best appointment. In the context of Hearts history, I wouldnt say it was that great an appointment.

 

Time will tell, if he is afforded such a luxury.

[Thig Ar Latha]

According to this EEN article UNESCO has asked that major projects in Edinburgh be put on hold until a review of the City's World Heritage status was completed.

 

It was published in August and at the time I didn't connect it to our development because of the location of Tynecastle, but could this be the political pressure mentioned by PTBCAL above? UNESCO's issue seems to be the skyline, which would be effected even by a project outside the city centre.

 

Was that not aimed at the proposed development at Haymarket?

[Gibbo]

Was that not aimed at the proposed development at Haymarket?

 

It was, which was why I didn't post it when the article appeared in August. It just seemed to be a possibility, in view of the comment above about political pressure, that it might have led the Council to put a hold on any project effecting the City's skyline.

[Ray Winstone]

This is probably a good thing and not unexpected.

 

With the economy the way it is building projects are being halted all over the country and it would be irresponsible of the council to let Hearts with their perhaps 'undisclosed' financial status, start a building project of this size.

[Jammy T]

Its interesting that nearly everyone is agreed this is a good thing

 

I've argued for months about the world financial issues meaning not only that this wouldnt go ahead but that it shouldnt. People obviously assumed it was an anti-Romanov stance and disagreed vociferously at times.

 

Of course it wasnt anti-Vlad, simply common sense

 

My question is - to the people who would be convinced Romanov was the real deal and the right guy for us when the first bricks were laid on the development...

 

Where do you stand now?

 

We are fast entering only and solely "tomorrow never comes" arguments in support of Vlad.

 

A delayed stand project, a reliance upon youth (which if we are all honest is not showing signs of being hugely successful, certainly no more successful than in the past despite all the fanfares)....

[Francis Albert]

To be honest, this wouldn't be a bad thing for us financially, I do not think spending millions on this type of project in this current climate is prudent, and Vlad may well be slightly relieved if this does happen, as then he has an excuse for not starting the work when he said it would start.

 

However a few other things. For the council to take that long to decide a planning application is ridiculous, any concerns they have with it, could and should have been addressed long before now. These plans were not drawn up on the back of a notebook, they were drawn up by one of the top stadium design architects at a cost of some 1million+, We then have to look into the Nursery land which Vlad has bought which he was held to ransom over by parents whose children attend the nursery, and the cost of the new nursery (If i recall some 5million).

 

Then we have the estimated cost of the project 51million. Will it really cost Hearts/UBIG 51million? NO. Vlad is trying to encourage outside investors, someone who will be interested in the hotel, also selling some of the units and Flats, he is also looking at a naming rights for the new stand, which would generate millions (And could potentially pay for the stand part itself) of course finding investors in this climate will prove extremely difficult.

 

Vlad or one of his co-horts said only a few weeks ago if the council were going delay too much longer then they would be looking to renegotiate the land value and deal they made with the council for the puchase of land, given that land values are dropping considerably. This could be deemed as Vlad stalling or starting to work his get out clause, but i would also see it IF he is serious about this project as a wise course of action.

 

I do believe that, Vlad/UBIG defintely intended to go ahead with this, and still would, after all why waste the money and man hours they have so far on some elaborate "Pull the wool over our eyes" scheme, but given then financial dangers at present i believe they would be more than happy to put this on the back burner until it makes better financial sense.

 

Agree with most of that. It would be good (and for a public body expected) if the Council clearly explained the reason for the delay - it isn't obvious why something which looks well designed and makes a serious attempt to be sympathetic in material and appearance with its surroundings has so much difficulty in getting consent when supermarket monstrosities and the hideous new Tynecastle school seem to be fast tracked.

 

As for the idea that Vlad needs the delay to "save face", I'd have thought, if he wants to delay or abandon, a simple statement about the changed financial circumstances would be understood by everyone with the exception of the majority on Hibs.net and a few on here, as a perfectly reasonable and sufficient explanation. Unless of course Vlad has engineered a world financial crisis to "save face".

 

Incidentally, how is David Murray'ds ?700m redevelopment of Ibrox, which was splashed all over the first three pages of the Record or Mail a year or so ago, progressing?

[Ray Winstone]

Its interesting that nearly everyone is agreed this is a good thing

 

I've argued for months about the world financial issues meaning not only that this wouldnt go ahead but that it shouldnt. People obviously assumed it was an anti-Romanov stance and disagreed vociferously at times.

 

Of course it wasnt anti-Vlad, simply common sense

 

My question is - to the people who would be convinced Romanov was the real deal and the right guy for us when the first bricks were laid on the development...

 

Where do you stand now?

 

We are fast entering only and solely "tomorrow never comes" arguments in support of Vlad.

 

A delayed stand project, a reliance upon youth (which if we are all honest is not showing signs of being hugely successful, certainly no more successful than in the past despite all the fanfares)....

 

A medal is on its way.

[Francis Albert]

Its interesting that nearly everyone is agreed this is a good thing

 

I've argued for months about the world financial issues meaning not only that this wouldnt go ahead but that it shouldnt. People obviously assumed it was an anti-Romanov stance and disagreed vociferously at times.

 

Of course it wasnt anti-Vlad, simply common sense

 

My question is - to the people who would be convinced Romanov was the real deal and the right guy for us when the first bricks were laid on the development...

 

Where do you stand now?

 

We are fast entering only and solely "tomorrow never comes" arguments in support of Vlad.

 

A delayed stand project, a reliance upon youth (which if we are all honest is not showing signs of being hugely successful, certainly no more successful than in the past despite all the fanfares)....

 

I wasn't one of the "first bricks test" people but the change in the world financial situation might legitimately change the viability of the project and therefore surely of the "first bricks test".

 

As for "tomorrow never comes" the strongest "pro-Vlad" argument is and always has been that there is no credible alternative.

[Boris]

Its interesting that nearly everyone is agreed this is a good thing

 

I've argued for months about the world financial issues meaning not only that this wouldnt go ahead but that it shouldnt. People obviously assumed it was an anti-Romanov stance and disagreed vociferously at times.

 

Of course it wasnt anti-Vlad, simply common sense

 

My question is - to the people who would be convinced Romanov was the real deal and the right guy for us when the first bricks were laid on the development...

 

Where do you stand now?

 

We are fast entering only and solely "tomorrow never comes" arguments in support of Vlad.

 

A delayed stand project, a reliance upon youth (which if we are all honest is not showing signs of being hugely successful, certainly no more successful than in the past despite all the fanfares)....

 

Perhaps Vlad has caught your common sense?

 

You state that the delay to the stand is a good thing, yet use this delay to browbeat the regime. Why, if it's a good thing it's delayed?

[Sparky]

My question is - to the people who would be convinced Romanov was the real deal and the right guy for us when the first bricks were laid on the development...

 

Where do you stand now?

 

 

I guess I'm one of these people. I wouldn't say that laying the first bricks would have been made me think Romanov was the right guy for us, but it would have made me much less concerned about his intentions/options.

 

If the rumours of delay are true, then I would remain worried that we are in no sturdier a position wrt having a stadium and thus long term security.

 

Funnily enough, the credit crunch may have put the stand plans in jeopardy, but they have also made tynecastle less attractive for (and companies less able to undertake) housing development.

[werwolf]

Who knows? This latest development may even give him the excuse he's needed to sell up and move on.

 

IF Vlad is planning to walk away (and there's no evidence one way or the other) then any delay in planning permission would not help him at all.

Any asset is far more attractive to potential buyers if is already has planning permission granted. This can be amended/scaled down by new owners at any time.

So all you 'experts' that think this is Vlad's way of getting out are once again mistaken

[Deevers]

IF Vlad is planning to walk away (and there's no evidence one way or the other) then any delay in planning permission would not help him at all.

Any asset is far more attractive to potential buyers if is already has planning permission granted. This can be amended/scaled down by new owners at any time.

So all you 'experts' that think this is Vlad's way of getting out are once again mistaken

 

Not an expert - just someone with an opinion! I've just got a feeling that he will be offski by this time next year. Just call it intuition!!!

[Billy the Jambo]

I have to agree with a poster on this thread about the stand not being built under this regime in fact i have been saying this since the pie in the sky idea was first thought off .The stand wont be built and to all those who are still sucking the mad ones knob about it wake up and smell the coffee.IF the council delay in approving or declining the application speeds up the departure of the mad one and his regime from Tynecastle i will buy every councillor in the planning department a very large drink

[happy jambo]

Oh Dear !

Sorry guys I cant get my head around this one , Edinburgh Council ask for another 12months to look @ the plans WHY ? PTBAL you seem to have a wee bit of knowledge hear do you know the reasons ?

I think this is a bad thing as Believe I think said for any investers coming in this would be a great selling point to have .

Hears a question does any one know how long the planning permission was waiting to pass for the new high rise hotel to be built @ Haymarket ?

bet you it wasnt a year & a half .

So what can Hearts do to get this back on track ?

Im sorry for all the question marks , but as I said I cant get my head around this Edinburgh Council s latest request .

[Das Root]

For me, putting up with Romanov's antics was all about the end product, that being the shiny new stand and some Tynecastle security. Without it, all we have is a crack pot owner and a lurch from one issue to the next. Is it worth it?

[Jammy T]

Perhaps Vlad has caught your common sense?

 

You state that the delay to the stand is a good thing, yet use this delay to browbeat the regime. Why, if it's a good thing it's delayed?

 

Not at all

 

The stand has not been delayed - it wont be built whilst Vlad is here.

 

But I'm not using that to brow beat him at all.

 

There is a school of thought on here that concerns about Romanov would dissipate once the stand was started. All I am doing is attempting to illicit thoughts from those people as to where they stand on the possibility or probability it wont be built any time soon

 

I dont criticise people for gaining comfort from the stand being built. Its entirely normal to be thankful to and be confident in an individual that would radically change and improve the infrastructure of the club in the manner that was proposed.

[Jammy T]

A medal is on its way.

 

No medal wanted

 

I am only observing that is interesting how opinions on this issue change, as a result of this news, or possibly even the source of the news being posted.

 

I guess it is typical football fans. Elvis the greatest thing since sliced bread....until he is dumped, and he becomes the anti-christ

 

The stand will be built it will be built, Vlad will ensure it will be, the finances stack up....until it isnt and they dont, and it becomes, yes very sensible to wait blah blah

blah...

 

Its like people dont really have true opinions...