Sydney from Sydney Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 ...am I the only one who thinks we might just benefit if he has to cash up on a few of his investments and "reluctantly" let us go. I understand his bank's credit rating has recently been downgraded, and the spread of the world financial crisis has yet to hit his homeland to the extent that other countries have been affected. Personally speaking I'd welcome another owner in a minute. We aren't likely to find a Mike Ashley, but someone who understands what HMFC stands for, instead of this clown, would be much appreciated. Maybe, just maybe, some good can come from this global meltdown situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 If you make a list of the guys that want to take over the club and we will all pick the ones we like the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 ...am I the only one who thinks we might just benefit if he has to cash up on a few of his investments and "reluctantly" let us go. I understand his bank's credit rating has recently been downgraded, and the spread of the world financial crisis has yet to hit his homeland to the extent that other countries have been affected. Personally speaking I'd welcome another owner in a minute. We aren't likely to find a Mike Ashley, but someone who understands what HMFC stands for, instead of this clown, would be much appreciated. Maybe, just maybe, some good can come from this global meltdown situation. would love the wee rats bank to go bust and gtf out of our club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney from Sydney Posted September 28, 2008 Author Share Posted September 28, 2008 If you make a list of the guys that want to take over the club and we will all pick the ones we like the best. Always a smarty who misses the point eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Always a smarty who misses the point eh. It maybe came across, perhaps was even meant, as a smart comment but I agree with his point. If there were people of that nature (who really care about HMFC) out there surely they would have come forward ahead of Romanov when the issue of Tynecastle's very existence had been under discussion for some time. Now if anyone looms on the horizon it will not be to protect our heritage/traditions but for profit or self interest. We worry, quite rightly, about the Lithuanian motives but even with an Englishman like Ashley, his song was not all that differently at Newcastle than Romanov's was with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 ...am I the only one who thinks we might just benefit if he has to cash up on a few of his investments and "reluctantly" let us go. I understand his bank's credit rating has recently been downgraded, and the spread of the world financial crisis has yet to hit his homeland to the extent that other countries have been affected. Personally speaking I'd welcome another owner in a minute. We aren't likely to find a Mike Ashley, but someone who understands what HMFC stands for, instead of this clown, would be much appreciated. Maybe, just maybe, some good can come from this global meltdown situation. If the bank was to go tits up, I'm sure the first thing the administrators would do is to call in all debts owed to them, which would put us in a very scary situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freewheelin' Jambo Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 If the bank was to go tits up, I'm sure the first thing the administrators would do is to call in all debts owed to them, which would put us in a very scary situation! It also means we may be sold off to a more responsible prospective owner at a knock down price. Like HBOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 It also means we may be sold off to a more responsible prospective owner at a knock down price. Like HBOS. We may also be sold to a less responsible owner. Life has a knack of hitting you when you are down. Is there really any prospect of another potential owner appearing in the current financial situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 And if Murray International go down or Stewart Milne or Farmers etc. What then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Jambo Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 If the bank was to go down it would be very very very bad news for us. The chance of anyone coming in willing to buy the club, pay off the debt owed to Romanov and keep the club going would be I'd think very slim to none. The possibility of someone buying the stadium at a reasonable price to build on would be much higher, allowing part of the debt to be recouped. I'd suspect the club would then be closed, with any players of value sold off. That said I've seen nothing to suggest the bank is about to go down the drain. If a post on the Scotsman website that claimed to be copied from UKIO's website is upto date then the banks credit rating has NOT been downgraded. What has changed is the agency's assessment of the future of the rating, from stable to negative. Meaning I guess that they feel they MIGHT have to downgrade at some unspecified time in the future. I'm no expert but given the global situation I'd be surprised if the outlook of many small banks was not being downgraded. Just found the relevant article http://www.ub.lt/ShowPage.aspx?MenuC=1568&ShowDoc=news.2008_08_27&PageLang=ENG&PageFontSize=&BackUrlName=Back Whether the global crisis has spread to Lithuania I simply couldn't say, but don't see why it would have been protected so far. But it is well documented that small banks are much less likely to have exposed themselves to the toxic mortgages that have caused the big U.S./British banks such problems over the last couple of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 And if Murray International go down or Stewart Milne or Farmers etc. What then? Who cares? Those are questions for Rangers, Aberdeen and Hibs fans. This is a Hearts forum, and since Hearts are run by the owner of a bank and an investment company I think it's valid to discuss the OP given that we're in the middle of the biggest bank and investment company crisis for almost 80 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 If you ask me...the government could easily help debt ridden football clubs if it came to it. They spend ?400 Million (?) or whatever on a parliment building FFS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guess The Crowd Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 If the bank was to go down it would be very very very bad news for us. The chance of anyone coming in willing to buy the club, pay off the debt owed to Romanov and keep the club going would be I'd think very slim to none. The possibility of someone buying the stadium at a reasonable price to build on would be much higher, allowing part of the debt to be recouped. I'd suspect the club would then be closed, with any players of value sold off. That said I've seen nothing to suggest the bank is about to go down the drain. If a post on the Scotsman website that claimed to be copied from UKIO's website is upto date then the banks credit rating has NOT been downgraded. What has changed is the agency's assessment of the future of the rating, from stable to negative. Meaning I guess that they feel they MIGHT have to downgrade at some unspecified time in the future. I'm no expert but given the global situation I'd be surprised if the outlook of many small banks was not being downgraded. Just found the relevant article http://www.ub.lt/ShowPage.aspx?MenuC=1568&ShowDoc=news.2008_08_27&PageLang=ENG&PageFontSize=&BackUrlName=Back Whether the global crisis has spread to Lithuania I simply couldn't say, but don't see why it would have been protected so far. But it is well documented that small banks are much less likely to have exposed themselves to the toxic mortgages that have caused the big U.S./British banks such problems over the last couple of months. That's an interesting post, but in the event of the Bank / Group going down, would there be any obligation to pay off Romanov in full? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Jambo Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Again I'm no expert but I'd assume that if UBIG/UKIO were in real difficulty then they would do a deal which saw them getting back as much money as possible and closing down any loss making revenue stream (i.e. continued ownership of a football club). That might mean that someone could buy the club as a football club for less than debt+share cost. But the price would still need to at least match what could be made by breaking up the club and selling off it's assets. Again this is a doomsday scenario and not one that I think the evidence currently points to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 It also means we may be sold off to a more responsible prospective owner at a knock down price. Like HBOS. why would a bank want to buy a loss making organisation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivotno1 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 i think we would be better of hopeing that the club is sold rather than any other reason,would that not be the most sensible option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freewheelin' Jambo Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 why would a bank want to buy a loss making organisation? Ask Eric Daniels and Andy Hornby... HBOS was just an example. I dont mean another bank buys us over. Its bad enough with the one that's already with us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJAC? Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 If you ask me...the government could easily help debt ridden football clubs if it came to it. They spend ?400 Million (?) or whatever on a parliment building FFS!! Clubs aren't allowed government funds. We'd be thrown out the league by UEFA. Anyway, why the **** would I want my tax money helping the likes of Hibs, Aberdeen etc when the cash is needed more urgently elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 It also means we may be sold off to a more responsible prospective owner at a knock down price. Like HBOS. Yes, that's what happens. That is exactly how it works, you should have told us before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Be careful what you wish for is all I can say. If UBIG's investments all went downwards, an asset stripper may buy them and dispose of them in whatever way they see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 The "credit crunch" or "liquidity crisis" will affect a much wider range of organisations than just banks so it is reasonable to expect that those sporting outfits funded by anything other than an American/Russian billionaire or an Arabian/Far-Eastern Sovereign Fund will be subjected to a belt-tightening exercise in the very near future. There are already rumblings in Formula 1 "Paddock" about lack of investment for next season. It is hard to imagine that football will not be close behind. If Vlad is going to find things tough then other "white knights" are going to be equally straitened and football clubs may not be on the top of their list of safe investments at present. Anyway, better the "devil" you know...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naeclue Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Again I'm no expert but I'd assume that if UBIG/UKIO were in real difficulty then they would do a deal which saw them getting back as much money as possible and closing down any loss making revenue stream (i.e. continued ownership of a football club). That might mean that someone could buy the club as a football club for less than debt+share cost. But the price would still need to at least match what could be made by breaking up the club and selling off it's assets. Again this is a doomsday scenario and not one that I think the evidence currently points to. If you are looking at buying Hearts, the value would be the ground, (worth less than pieman days I'd figure now), plus a wee bit for the valuation of the players, minus the commitment to contracts for a few years. If UBIG are forced to sell the club due to being strapped for cash, they'd have to take the highest bidder. They'd have to sell at a loss, almost certainly. So with depressed land prices, you'd probably pay less for Hearts around now (assuming UBIG are distressed), but it'd be tough to find anyone interested to buy us even at a lower price. Having said that the example of Burley period Hearts or even the turnaround managed by Tom Farmer at Hibs may be enough to bring someone in. Who knows. I can't see UBIG living with growing losses for more than a couple of years, (and with falling gates, they'll continue to lose money imo, irrespective of cuts in wages). They have to find a way to make Hearts profitable, either by selling players from the pyramid at a vast profit, (no sign of that whatsoever) or not running the club in an idiotic fashion so that the support and success return. Either way I think we'll go post-Romanov in a couple of years. Whether that means playing at Saughton park, or rescued by some other group, or something inbetween, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Regardless of who is Hearts owner the club must stop overspending and live within it's means. More than a decade of loss-making has resulted in debts over ?20M and threatened the club with administration and losing ownership of the stadium and but for Romanov's line of credit (subsidy) these threats remain. Balancing the books is more important than a new goalscorer or left back - even if some fans are unhappy about this - the Bank of Scotland & UKIO-Bankas have been too generous in lending us money and permitting us to live beyond our means year after year. Harsh medicine & a good dose of common sense is needed to put the club on a firmer footing financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin67 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Be careful what you wish for is all I can say. If UBIG's investments all went downwards, an asset stripper may buy them and dispose of them in whatever way they see fit. Exactly - some faceless set-up that have hardly heard of Scotland let alone Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNCASTLE Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Comical banks like Vlad's are the first to go tits up in a recession. As I noted before, not necessarily bad. HMFC may go completely tits up too and all debt is forgiven. Nice to start with a level playing field again? I have been hearing about how bad our debt is since I was a wee boy...I am fecking 60 now!!! From the Pie man to the Fly man..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNCASTLE Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Tits up big time by HMFC would result ultimately in forgiven debt. Roll it on!!!! We HAVE to be better off at square one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naeclue Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Regardless of who is Hearts owner the club must stop overspending and live within it's means. More than a decade of loss-making has resulted in debts over ?20M and threatened the club with administration and losing ownership of the stadium and but for Romanov's line of credit (subsidy) these threats remain. Balancing the books is more important than a new goalscorer or left back - even if some fans are unhappy about this - the Bank of Scotland & UKIO-Bankas have been too generous in lending us money and permitting us to live beyond our means year after year. Harsh medicine & a good dose of common sense is needed to put the club on a firmer footing financially. You see any sign of common sense breaking out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romanov Stole My Pension Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 The worst thing that could happen to Hearts right now is Romanov to have financial difficulties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Comical banks like Vlad's are the first to go tits up in a recession. Have you read a newspaper or seen or heard a news bulletin in the last few weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney from Sydney Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share Posted September 29, 2008 Tits up big time by HMFC would result ultimately in forgiven debt. Roll it on!!!!We HAVE to be better off at square one? If this was the case it would be a god send. Get rid of the lunatic and start from scratch. Lesson learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Where does the idea that debt would be written off or forgiven come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Where does the idea that debt would be written off or forgiven come from? Somewhere in New South Wales, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naeclue Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Where does the idea that debt would be written off or forgiven come from? If UBIG died (heaven forfend such a thing of course), it's assets would be sold to pay creditors. So theoretically Hearts could be sold lock stock and barrel. The price demanded during a sale in such circumstances would not involve a purchaser taking on the debt, any liquidator would take the best price they could get. If you called a healthy UBIG tomorrow and said you'd like to buy Hearts, they'd want a larger sum, to cover the debt that they'd taken on, (though this is all debt accrued under VR/UBIG management). It'd be much more likely for any liquidator to sell the real estate that is Tynecastle, (although a council reluctant to grant planning permission might help kibosh that), and someone could buy the Hearts name, playing squad, cones and so on. Having said all that, if we were going to lose the ground anyway, you could go for the nuclear option of starting over as Hearts of Midlothian or something elsewhere. The major, most important part of Hearts is the support. Without support the club is pretty much nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney from Sydney Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share Posted September 29, 2008 Somewhere in New South Wales, apparently. Not the case mate. In the event of Vlad's bank having to sell off assets, we wouldn't be any worse off than the Pieman selling us for bugger all to some builder in order to pay off debts. Personally I think Romanov is in a bit of strife. If reports about his bank doubling their exposure to debt over recent years is true, and with the uncertainty of mining and commodities, which is another area where he's exposed, I'd say he has reason to consider all parts of his business interests that can be cash converted if need be. And that includes us. Hearts are losing money and can only survive within his business model if they increase debt and invest in the hotel industry, which is already in trouble due to an over supply of accomodation. I'm not sure where he'll find backers right now within the finance industry to make a project like this work. I'm hopeful we can come out the other end with new owners who know how to run a football club. Laugh all you want, but after the cr@p of the last three years, things can only improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 It also means we may be sold off to a more responsible prospective owner at a knock down price. Like HBOS. Who could request payment immediately or even put the ground up for sale to recover the costs.... IF Vlad's bank went teets up then we would be back to square one not knowing what was going to happen to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan40 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Have to say I am confused. UBIG own Hearts don't they. Ukios Bankas is a separate entity is it not. UBIG own big smelting plants, etc, and Hearts, and are currently making profits, though they are going down (the profits I mean). The bank has 13% interest in UBIG if it does go down, so there would be marginal effect on UBIG, therefore Hearts. Is this not the jist of the Guardian article posted earlier. Or am I a plonker like I think I am? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 A lot of speculation here as to what would happen should UBIG disappear and, to be fair, the "white knight" buying the distressed assets could happen. I'd like to ask where these white knights were last time round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 A lot of speculation here as to what would happen should UBIG disappear and, to be fair, the "white knight" buying the distressed assets could happen. I'd like to ask where these white knights were last time round? In Kaunas.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 In Kaunas.... Quite. Does Kaunas have a stock of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlo2 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 It'd be much more likely for any liquidator to sell the real estate that is Tynecastle, (although a council reluctant to grant planning permission might help kibosh that), and someone could buy the Hearts name, playing squad, cones and so on. It there not already planning permission for housing on Tynecastle from the days of the Cala episode? It would be difficult for the Council to block a planning application. Having said all that, if we were going to lose the ground anyway, you could go for the nuclear option of starting over as Hearts of Midlothian or something elsewhere. The major, most important part of Hearts is the support. Without support the club is pretty much nothing. Exactly. You can never kill a football club. Even Gretna have risen from the ashes of their recent fiasco, at a level sustainable for their level of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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