People want to believe the worst

[Dr. Bapswent]

So it seems the 'glitch' has been just that.

 

Maybe a bit larger than expected, but it seems there have not yet been sweeeping redundancies.

 

So how did things get so carried away on KB?

 

Well we know the rags, particularly the Record enjoy spreading bull about the club. In fact, they make up damn lies.

 

But what about the 'rumours' that got spread?

 

I was told by a number of people that they had heard form people who was made redundant, or not paid etc..

 

Again, why all the rumours if they are not true?

 

The number of posts on here also suggested people had heard the same kind of stories.

 

It appears the Chinese whispers managed to infect Edinburgh (at least) for a day.

 

But why is it so easy for this to happen?

 

Of course many of hte usual people will come along and preach about Vlad reaping what he sows etc etc.

 

But to be honest, Vlad has said as much 'window dressing' type comments as every other manager. He has also had 100x as much bull**** spread about him as others.

 

The problem seems to be a tinder box dry willingness for ANY rumour or story to be accepted as truth. But ONLY for negative, HMFC crisis stories. Rumours that are spread like wildfire on the mearest hint of a problem.

 

It seems we have a fan base of suspicious fans.

 

It appears we have rivals who are rejoicing in this.

 

It appears we have a whole city of non-football people who now are more interested than before.

 

It appears we have a media who are prepared to exploit this.

 

Whats the worst of all of this? :-

It seems we have a fan base of suspicious fans.

 

Of course some people have an issue with Vlad, and will never be happy at anything.

 

Others will defend decisions, even in the face of contrary evidence.

 

But overall, the fanabse is to easily disposed to think the worst.

 

Just look back over the recent threads and you'll see many people gulpin down the latests crisis, hook, line and sinker. No need to think, if its negative, it must be true.

 

This is a serious issue for the club. It sems no matter how much we understand that the papaers should be taken with a pinch of salt people still react to each and every story. just waiting on the one that is correct.

 

Its a morbid fascination with an unhealthy dimise of the club, rather han supporting it.

 

It pervades into the stadium too, this knife edge attitude means that the fans are so quick to be judge jury and executioner of players. Look at Kello, a decent and improving keeper. But was slated before he even played, after all, he came through Vlads pyramid.

 

This attitude is not healthy. Its actually potentially very damaging.

 

So why are so many like this? Is it just because Hearts are such a percived distance form winning anything that some people would rather get the satisfaction about being right, first or the one to say 'I told you so' about something at the club?

 

We cant fix the media, we cant fix opposition fans, so the only thing left is to adjust our own perception and attitude towards the club.

 

From what I can see, things are not perfect, but they are getting better. Being prepared for the worst is fine, but those who are always looking over thier shoulders are always looking back, and not forward. We cant help the club or give the club a lift by expecting negatives all the time. We are sitting 3rd and winning ugly.

 

Until something seriously and genuinely goes wrong, should we not get behind the club to support it, not stab it in the back.

[Walter Bishop]

There is a meeting going on right now with all staff at Tynecastle i have been told!

[Deevers]

Agree with everything said above - but isn't sad that those charged with running this club continually allow situations such as this to arise.

[Dr. Bapswent]

There is a meeting going on right now with all staff at Tynecastle i have been told!

 

Really...why?

 

To sack them all, or to explain the situation?

 

The tendency to go with the negative option with no real proof is the problem.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Agree with everything said above - but isn't sad that those charged with running this club continually allow situations such as this to arise.

 

Do you know in detail how this arose?

 

Did they let it? or was it a mistake?

 

Again, without real evidence to say one way or the other, how can you accurately blame them?

[Maximus]

You could say some people are the opposite. Always assume the best, never question anything. The complacent ones. These are the people who make things easier for manipulators....

[Deevers]

Do you know in detail how this arose?

 

Did they let it? or was it a mistake?

 

Again, without real evidence to say one way or the other, how can you accurately blame them?

 

All I'll say is the present incumbents have something of a habit of screwing things up from a PR perspective. Maybe they have been victims of circumstances - Friday should show us one way or the other.

[Dr. Bapswent]

You could say some people are the opposite. Always assume the best, never question anything. The complacent ones. These are the people who make things easier for manipulators....

 

Yes, but how are they manipulated?

 

To go to games? to buy ST's, to buy shirts and programmes?

 

To support the team and the players?

 

isnt that what fans are meant to do anyway?

 

Yes I agree, they may be doing this in the face of some bad news, but the most they will ever do while being naive, is support the club even louder.

 

They dont bring the club and other supporters down.

 

they may be wrong, but they are somewhat harmlessly wrong and only lose thier own money etc.

[Dr. Bapswent]

All I'll say is the present incumbents have something of a habit of screwing things up from a PR perspective. Maybe they have been victims of circumstances - Friday should show us one way or the other.

 

True.

 

But again, Csaba is a great PR find.

 

It might be baby steps forward, and it should still be supported, not treated with endless suspicion looking for weakspots to attack.

 

The past is the past. They got it massively wrong. Are we to hold that over them forever? How can we really support the club if we are continually focussing on the mistakes they made in the past?

[Jam Tarts 1874]

You could say some people are the opposite. Always assume the best, never question anything. The complacent ones. These are the people who make things easier for manipulators....

 

The only people being "manipulated" are those who are stupid enough to believe every ridiculous, malicious rumour no matter what the source. Like the vast majority of sensible Hearts fans, I prefer to deal in facts not conspiracy theories and gossip.

[marshallschunkychicken]

It's a byproduct of both the internet age where information should be forthcoming now or sooner, rather than the drip-feed information situation of years ago, and also of the fact that the present incumbents at the club have managed to create a situation where no story can be discounted as rubbish, because invariably, it's no more rubbish than whats happened before.

 

This gives carte blanche to those who wish to create panic, and also for people to pass off opinion as fact. Somewhere in the midst of this, the truth may come out, but no-one is able to distinguish which 'truth' is the real truth.

 

Fact is, not everything said on here is an accurate representation of the situation - nothing may be - but unfortunately, in trying to work it out, all 'rumours' across the spectrum are pretty much equally viable until proven otherwise.

[Deevers]

True.

 

But again, Csaba is a great PR find.

 

It might be baby steps forward, and it should still be supported, not treated with endless suspicion looking for weakspots to attack.

 

The past is the past. They got it massively wrong. Are we to hold that over them forever? How can we really support the club if we are continually focussing on the mistakes they made in the past?[/quote]

 

The unfortunate thing is that many people will focus on the track record of those in charge at the club over the past three years - and you are bound to get a lot of negativity because of that.

 

What I want to see is an end to the stream of gaffs that lead to us being pilloried in the media.

 

After this is sorted out - and I'm sure that it will be -it should be a priority for those running the club to ensure that our headlines are made on the back pages of the "rags" due to our excellent performances on the field.

[sked21]

I would agree with much of what you have said.

 

But what I would say for the "suspicous fans" is that a lot has happened in the not too distant past that has really ticked most off and that they do have the right to feel worried about stuff because of the track record.

 

But yeah it looks like it improving both on and off the field (Well except for this 'glitch') and I reckon we should al try and look forward. Although it is easier said and done when stuff like this creeps up.

[Maximus]

LOL. You think I give a feck about newspapers and roumours!? I have a mind of my own thank you. I also have history to go on, real solid evidence that I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears that these people tell lies and the majority are all too happy to buy them again and again.

[Dr. Bapswent]

True.

 

But again' date=' Csaba is a great PR find.

 

It might be baby steps forward, and it should still be supported, not treated with endless suspicion looking for weakspots to attack.

 

The past is the past. They got it massively wrong. [b']Are we to hold that over them forever? How can we really support the club if we are continually focussing on the mistakes they made in the past?[/quote[/b]]

 

The unfortunate thing is that many people will focus on the track record of those in charge at the club over the past three years - and you are bound to get a lot of negativity because of that.

 

What I want to see is an end to the stream of gaffs that lead to us being pilloried in the media.

 

After this is sorted out - and I'm sure that it will be -it should be a priority for those running the club to ensure that our headlines are made on the back pages of the "rags" due to our excellent performances on the field.

 

 

My only question would be - How can things ever be sorted out if the media keep creating issues or suggesting problems?

 

How long a period of stability is long enough for the past to be left alone?

 

Because at most the way the papers (and many fans) work, only a couple of days peace is ever allowed before the start looking for something to complain about.

 

If thats the case, coupled with a disposition to believe the worst, we will never be free of considering the present incumbents as a problem and therefore never really behind them, and never really behind the team.

[redm]

You could say some people are the opposite. Always assume the best, never question anything. The complacent ones. These are the people who make things easier for manipulators....

 

This attitude is what irritates me most...that those who don't see the worst in everything are perceived by the grumps to be less perceptive, insightful and sometimes they're even accused of being downright stupid. This smug, supercilious and condescending approach favoured by some of the less positive posters often rises to a crescendo in debates when there is little evidence to back up their points, suggesting that it all might be nothing more than a necessary defence mechanism for those who find it tricky to justify their negativity.

 

Not aimed at you personally Maximus, just a general observation. But who are these mysterious manipulators you mention? I'd suggest that the only people being regularly manipulated by anyone are those who suck up without question anything the media chooses to throw them. But you may see things differently.

[Deevers]

 

 

My only question would be - How can things ever be sorted out if the media keep creating issues or suggesting problems?

 

How long a period of stability is long enough for the past to be left alone?

 

Because at most the way the papers (and many fans) work' date=' only a couple of days peace is ever allowed before the start looking for something to complain about.

 

If thats the case, coupled with a disposition to believe the worst, we will never be free of considering the present incumbents as a problem and therefore never really behind them, and never really behind the team.[/quote']

 

I can see where you are coming from on this - but why is it that this does not seem to happen with other clubs. Only Hearts seem to get themselves into situations where the "red tops" have a field day. That situation has got to stop. I'm sure that if we got a sustained period of time where there were no "self harm" situations, the media would start to have to look else where for their muck.

 

If that happens maybe, just maybe, the negativity in a sizeable minority of our support will ebb as well.

[I P Knightley]

So it seems the 'glitch' has been just that.

 

 

What've I missed?

 

I'm not aware of any news either way that settles this.

 

 

REDM I try not to be either a permanent grump nor a blinkered optimist. I'm in the camp that says - "doesn't look great right now, I wonder where we're heading?"

[Thunderstruck]

Can't disagree with Dr B's original post. In fact, you only have to look at the concurrent thread relating to Christophe Berra's statement to see how some will twist everything that comes out of the club to suit their particular agenda.

[Chad Sexington]

The bottom line is, there is a section of our support who have invested so much time and energy telling anyone who'll listen that Romanov will kill the club, they would gain some kind of pathetic ego boost in seeing their predictions come true.

 

Obviously there are financial problems at the club, but the gleeful way some people are all over this news with a "told you so" demeanor is pathetic.

 

I don't know the exact details of the problems at the club, but crucially, neither do they.

 

It doesn't stop them doing the ******'s job for it though by spouting the most negative scenarios their fevered minds can muster up.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Though in fairness the exact same could be said about those of those who are perceived to be uber positive.

 

A couple of post on this thread kinda of prove it.

 

We are generally very intolerant of others views and all too often people resort to name calling.

 

I unlike the OP think you do need to look at the past. I'm not saying wallowing in, but look at what happens in the past as it suggest the likliehood of something occuring in the future. Not 100% I accept but the likliehood of something occuring.

 

If I kept borrowing money off you and never paid you pack you would eventually stop let me borrow money. Why? Due to what happened in the past.

 

Whilst, I don't think we're about to go bust. I can understand why people are fearing the worst. We've all seen companies go out the box and we are kinda of seeing parts of that with Hearts. People not being payed, assurance made that they would be paid by an alternate dates and this being missed. We seen it with Gretna last year and other clubs. In addition our owner whether we like it or not only has a track record for the unpredictable.

 

I can see why there is a concern. Its only natural when something we love is in danger.

 

Now people will say there is no hard evidence that we are trouble. However, that will only occur when something really bad occurs ie. an announcement etc.

 

That said I don't think we are about to go into receivership. I do think that perhaps the running of the finanical side mirrors running of the football side.

 

Hopefully it can't be turned around as we appear to be trying to do with the football side.

 

I have never said dont look at the past.

 

Of course look at it.

 

But I dont think it should consume peoples view of the future.

[Paolo]

The story in the Evening News is re-assuring, but only slightly to be honest, especially whilst the CO leaving rumours are circulating, which I believe COULD be true. We wil have to wait until Friday, or if today's meeting mentioned (if there is one) is finished and details leaked.

 

I think more positive confirmation about the long term future of the clubs needs to be made, especially when staff were apparently in tears about their wages - if I was paid a few days late, I would be hacked off and questioning whi pays my bills over the next two days, I would not be in tears though, so more reassurance is needed.

[luckystrike]

The only people being "manipulated" are those who are stupid enough to believe every ridiculous, malicious rumour no matter what the source. Like the vast majority of sensible Hearts fans, I prefer to deal in facts not conspiracy theories and gossip.

 

Facts like the players were not paid last week and were promised payment earlier this week.

 

Or is it only facts that suit your blatantly pro Romanov agenda that you deal with?

[PTBCAL]

The story in the Evening News is re-assuring, but only slightly to be honest, especially whilst the CO leaving rumours are circulating, which I believe COULD be true. We wil have to wait until Friday, or if today's meeting mentioned (if there is one) is finished and details leaked.

 

I think more positive confirmation about the long term future of the clubs needs to be made, especially when staff were apparently in tears about their wages - if I was paid a few days late, I would be hacked off and questioning whi pays my bills over the next two days, I would not be in tears though, so more reassurance is needed.

 

I think they were informed of likely job cuts in the near future. In fact I know they were.

 

Would not shock me to see CO edged out over the next 2 or 3 months or so. Hope not.

[Thunderstruck]

I think they were informed of likely job cuts in the near future. In fact I know they were.

 

Would not shock me to see CO edged out over the next 2 or 3 months or so. Hope not.

 

If this is said often enough, someone is going to be correct at sometime in the future (the infinite monkey theory).

 

I am sure C.O's. demise has been rumoured several time during the course of the current year and yet he is still at his desk.

[redm]

Though in fairness the exact same could be said about those of those who are perceived to be uber positive.

 

A couple of post on this thread kinda of prove it.

 

We are generally very intolerant of others views and all too often people resort to name calling.

 

I unlike the OP think you do need to look at the past. I'm not saying wallowing in, but look at what happens in the past as it suggest the likliehood of something occuring in the future. Not 100% I accept but the likliehood of something occuring.

 

If I kept borrowing money off you and never paid you pack you would eventually stop let me borrow money. Why? Due to what happened in the past.

 

Whilst, I don't think we're about to go bust. I can understand why people are fearing the worst. We've all seen companies go out the box and we are kinda of seeing parts of that with Hearts. People not being payed, assurance made that they would be paid by an alternate dates and this being missed. We seen it with Gretna last year and other clubs. In addition our owner whether we like it or not only has a track record for the unpredictable.

 

I can see why there is a concern. Its only natural when something we love is in danger.

 

Now people will say there is no hard evidence that we are trouble. However, that will only occur when something really bad occurs ie. an announcement etc.

 

That said I don't think we are about to go into receivership. I do think that perhaps the running of the finanical side mirrors running of the football side.

 

Hopefully it can't be turned around as we appear to be trying to do with the football side.

 

I think the problem is the way in which concern is expressed, in that case. Quite often it doesn't come across as concern and sometimes it doesn't even appear to have anything to do with personal affection for the club at all - it looks like it's all about ego. That's always going to rub people up the wrong way.

 

Suspicion, distrust, anger and spite seem to pervade every single debate, issue or Hearts related event. It's pedantic at best and soul destroying at worst.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I think that asking for the club to be run in a professional manner is hardly "seeing the worst". It allows the media, for example, to portray the worst.

[Dr. Bapswent]

I think the problem is the way in which concern is expressed, in that case. Quite often it doesn't come across as concern and sometimes it doesn't even appear to have anything to do with personal affection for the club at all - it looks like it's all about ego. That's always going to rub people up the wrong way.

 

Suspicion, distrust, anger and spite seem to pervade every single debate, issue or Hearts related event. It's pedantic at best and soul destroying at worst.

 

[Coco]

The 'worst' for all of us is that we don't have any Hearts to watch anymore, no more player selections to grumble about, new players to yearn for or slate as soon as they arrive, no more links with the great days and great players of the past.

 

I don't think that the general mood is to think the worst.

 

I think that what has changed is that the probability of 'the worst' happening has risen. Sometimes issues about payrolls happen. Sometimes they are precursors to true financial distress. There are no public details about UBIG's finances or who they receive the finance for their capital structure from so no true judgements are possible. But in the current environment it is normal for people to think that the probability of the 'worst' happening has risen, even though it is still probably an improbable event.

[Paolo]

I think they were informed of likely job cuts in the near future. In fact I know they were.

 

Would not shock me to see CO edged out over the next 2 or 3 months or so. Hope not.

 

Can I ask where or who you get this information from, someone within the club, or elsewhere, it seems fairly positive (well compared to the alternative) without being OTT?

 

Just curious....

[redm]

I think that asking for the club to be run in a professional manner is hardly "seeing the worst". It allows the media, for example, to portray the worst.

 

Do you know much about how other football clubs are run and whether or not its done professionally? Or even how we match up in that respect?

 

Genuine question.

[PTBCAL]

PTBCAL, first of all cheers for the updates over the last couple of days.

 

Secondly, would CO going be a bad thing? I have no contacts at Hearts so from a man in the street's perspective he does absolutely nothing, never any news about him, he never says a word in the press etc.

 

What does he do behind the scenes? Do you know?

 

I think he is simply perceived as the 'traditional & reliable' face of the football club and someone who would not get involved with a club that were as bad as we are often made out to be.

 

Behind the scenes - I understand he works within the club on behalf of VR with regards to SFA, SPL, legal issues, Stadium - although Pedro seems to be doing this now.

 

MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS FOR SURE?

[hawaii]

I tuned into Radio Scotland last night and could hardly believe my ears.

 

Chick Young & Jim Spence were basically saying that was the end of Hearts, that another Gretna is on the cards, Hearts fans will have to apologise to them now cos they have been right about Vlad all along.

 

Richard Gordon tried to stop them going too far, but failed miserably. They even had a reporter at Riccarton in case there was any "breaking news" about the club dying.

 

Can we now call the posters on kickback who had the same hysterical over reaction a bunch of Chick Youngs? I can't think of a more apt description to be honest.

[redm]

 

I've always wanted my own baby picture reply.

 

FINALLY.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Good OP.

 

 

I think Kickback is the perfect place to foster outbreaks of 'Anomie'.

 

99% of us view the Romanovs now with eyes wide open, but it's our reaction to the scare stories that divide us. Some people deal with is objectively: others subjectively.

 

Yet strangely, Kickback never seems to spill over to the real world. It's very contained. I guess that shows how the internet has given some people voice to express themselves.

 

Supporting Hearts for me, in the real world is just a microcosm of life. I just get on with it. This wages thing hasn't affected me at all. It's noted. I was concerned about the club. But I can't say I'm sweating buckets over it.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[deejtee]

Maybe an interesting time for those who keep banging on about getting rid of Romanov and watching the Hearts in whatever league they are in to have a moment of reflection. I would not be watching them in some lowly league and the real truth is neither would most fans. I have always had doubts about Vlad but we may or may not find out if there really is anyone else to buy if it comes to that. In the meantime one must hope that Vlad is not in plug pulling financial state.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Do you know much about how other football clubs are run and whether or not its done professionally? Or even how we match up in that respect?

 

Genuine question.

 

I know enough to know that any sign that players and/or staff not being paid on time is concerning.

[siegementality]

Not working in the banking sector I find these lines from the EEN story strange

 

"It appears the issue arose when UBIG, who regularly deposit money into Hearts' bank account with HBoS, stopped making payments earlier this month.

 

When HBoS refused to permit an overdraft beyond ?100,000, wages failed."

 

Why would Hearts need an overdraft from HBOS when we are effectively owned by a bank?

 

If HBOS being in trouble was the reason for UBIG stopping payments into the account would the same UBIG really expect the troubled HBOS to allow an overdraft of 100K?

 

Why did UBIG stop making the payments?

[portobellojambo1]

I think the problem is the way in which concern is expressed, in that case. Quite often it doesn't come across as concern and sometimes it doesn't even appear to have anything to do with personal affection for the club at all - it looks like it's all about ego. That's always going to rub people up the wrong way.

 

Suspicion, distrust, anger and spite seem to pervade every single debate, issue or Hearts related event. It's pedantic at best and soul destroying at worst.

 

That is called human nature Lee, and is often more apparent on message boards where it is less easy to express something in the same way you would if talking directly to someone. On a message board all you see is the words, and then have to try and work out for yourself how the person writing those words would express the same thing to you if you spoke to them in the street.

 

I do not think missing one payment of wages is a sign that the end is nigh, nothing like that. However I do not think all is rosy within the group that is UBIG, they have already had to slash away at the operations within Bosnia & Herzegovina just to massively reduce the losses there, no reason not to think or suspect that the next major target of cut backs could be another loss making part of the group, for example Heart of Midlothian Football Club.

 

It is not a nice thought that the club could be subject to massive cut backs, nor is it being negative, to me it is being realistic within the present climate. I look at it as a parallel of the situation which arose when David Murray put Rangers under the Murray Holdings Group, and their shareholders went berserk because of the amount of money being pumped into Rangers, and the overall effect it was having on the group, dragging their share prices down. Murray tried to correct that himself, by pumping in ?60 million of his own money, I am not so confident our owner would ever dream of doing that (in fact I am not confident he has that sort of liquid cash to hand, much of his wealth is tied up in shares, much of it in his own businesses, which are not performing well at this time (no business is anywhere, Ukio Bankas may well be holding its own, but we are talking about a bank making a profit of ?20 million, which in major banking terms is loose change, and not the sort of capital to keep a multi faceted "empire" on the march)).

 

With any situation at Hearts it seems rather inevitable that two polarized positions develop, and the thoughts of those somewhere in the middle get sort of lost in the overall scheme of things.

[Everybody loves Baz]

Good OP.

 

 

I think Kickback is the perfect place to foster outbreaks of 'Anomie'.

 

99% of us view the Romanovs now with eyes wide open, but it's our reaction to the scare stories that divide us. Some people deal with is objectively: others subjectively.

 

Yet strangely, Kickback never seems to spill over to the real world. It's very contained. I guess that shows how the internet has given some people voice to express themselves.

 

Supporting Hearts for me, in the real world is just a microcosm of life. I just get on with it. This wages thing hasn't affected me at all. It's noted. I was concerned about the club. But I can't say I'm sweating buckets over it.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

I think my soothing words of comfort must had an effect after all ?

[redm]

I know enough to know that any sign that players and/or staff not being paid on time is concerning.

 

Yes, but that isn't what you were referring to before. Your comment was about the way in which our club is run in a general sense...and let's be honest about this side of it, we get our info on that from the papers and chinese whispers. Nothing more.

 

What do we really hear about any of the other clubs? Very little. The reasons for that are varied but ultimately, I don't think any of us really have an accurate overview of what goes on at Tynecastle.

[blairdin]

I certainly don't want to fear the worst, but something at Hearts is clearly amiss just now. I'm certainly not going to be fooled into believing this is a 'glitch'.

 

Saying that, I don't believe for a second that we are about to become the next Gretna or Third Lanark. That's hysteria!

 

People forget that we are owned by UBIG, not mad Vlad. Far bigger banks and investment firms than UKIO/UBIG have collapsed in recent weeks so it seems plausible that our owners have had similar short term cashflow problems. Going forward, it seems plausible to me that UBIG/UKIO might be reconsidering how much cash they pump into us and might be looking for ways to cut day-to-day running costs.

 

That's not fearing the worst, I think it is a rational conclusion based on what is happening at Hearts, rumours flying around and the economy in general.

 

We might be a football club, but given we are essentially part of a investment companies portfolio our situation is different. I don't think Hearts current level of debt has anything at all to do with this.

 

I don't think we should let ourselves be fooled into thinking all is well without some explanation for the last few days, when appropriate to do so. I think a proper explanation of the 'glitch', once staff have been informed, would go a long way to reassuring us supporters and shutting up the likes of Young and Traynor. I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Discuss.

[stevieC@pivot]

Not working in the banking sector I find these lines from the EEN story strange

 

"It appears the issue arose when UBIG, who regularly deposit money into Hearts' bank account with HBoS, stopped making payments earlier this month.

 

When HBoS refused to permit an overdraft beyond ?100,000, wages failed."

 

Why would Hearts need an overdraft from HBOS when we are effectively owned by a bank?

 

If HBOS being in trouble was the reason for UBIG stopping payments into the account would the same UBIG really expect the troubled HBOS to allow an overdraft of 100K?

 

Why did UBIG stop making the payments?

 

UBIG are an investment bank,not a high st bank,they rely on other banks to invest money into them to speculate on shares etc.

 

Lheman bros were the same.

 

Banks right now are not "speculating" or lending money to each other for fear that other banks will go under.

 

UBIG may well have a "cash flow" issue and HBOS will not increase the o/draft so it is likely that UBIG/Hearts may well be robbing peter to pay paul at this moment in time.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Yes, but that isn't what you were referring to before. Your comment was about the way in which our club is run in a general sense...and let's be honest about this side of it, we get our info on that from the papers and chinese whispers. Nothing more.

 

What do we really hear about any of the other clubs? Very little. The reasons for that are varied but ultimately, I don't think any of us really have an accurate overview of what goes on at Tynecastle.

 

To be frank, the wages issue has probably caused even more concern than the supposed 'glitch' has merited because it seems that we are going back towards the pantomime days of the past couple of seasons. Because of those previous actions, the owners do not deserve any latitude at all for this screw-up.

[Maximus]

This attitude is what irritates me most...that those who don't see the worst in everything are perceived by the grumps to be less perceptive, insightful and sometimes they're even accused of being downright stupid. This smug, supercilious and condescending approach favoured by some of the less positive posters often rises to a crescendo in debates when there is little evidence to back up their points, suggesting that it all might be nothing more than a necessary defence mechanism for those who find it tricky to justify their negativity.

pot - kettle - black, if you are going to throw insults you might as well have a good look at both camps.

[Spellczech]

Discuss.

 

Jeez. You cannot even write your discussion header without loading it with your opinion ie What bitter end?

[siegementality]

UBIG are an investment bank,not a high st bank,they rely on other banks to invest money into them to speculate on shares etc.

 

Lheman bros were the same.

 

Banks right now are not "speculating" or lending money to each other for fear that other banks will go under.

 

UBIG may well have a "cash flow" issue and HBOS will not increase the o/draft so it is likely that UBIG/Hearts may well be robbing peter to pay paul at this moment in time.

 

OK, I understand now. This part, having read it again, concerns me

 

"It appears the issue arose when UBIG, who regularly deposit money into Hearts' bank account with HBoS, stopped making payments earlier this month."

 

If UBIG stopped paying money into Hearts account earlier this month then surely they knew at some point, regardless of what the overdraft was, there would be insufficient funds to pay wages.

 

To stop making payments into an account that the wages are paid from surely isn't a "glich"?

 

Your robbing Peter to pay Paul analogy would seem to be right, except Peter seems to have been robbed too many times already.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Jeez. You cannot even write your discussion header without loading it with your opinion ie What bitter end?

 

'Without loading it with my opinion'

 

I am perfectly entitled to my opinion thanks very much.

 

Have a look at the opening post. It's loaded with his opinion.

 

There will be a bitter end eventually. Don't be surprised if it's under Romanovs (mis)management.

[redm]

That is called human nature Lee, and is often more apparent on message boards where it is less easy to express something in the same way you would if talking directly to someone. On a message board all you see is the words, and then have to try and work out for yourself how the person writing those words would express the same thing to you if you spoke to them in the street.

 

I do not think missing one payment of wages is a sign that the end is nigh, nothing like that. However I do not think all is rosy within the group that is UBIG, they have already had to slash away at the operations within Bosnia & Herzegovina just to massively reduce the losses there, no reason not to think or suspect that the next major target of cut backs could be another loss making part of the group, for example Heart of Midlothian Football Club.

 

It is not a nice thought that the club could be subject to massive cut backs, nor is it being negative, to me it is being realistic within the present climate. I look at it as a parallel of the situation which arose when David Murray put Rangers under the Murray Holdings Group, and their shareholders went berserk because of the amount of money being pumped into Rangers, and the overall effect it was having on the group, dragging their share prices down. Murray tried to correct that himself, by pumping in ?60 million of his own money, I am not so confident our owner would ever dream of doing that (in fact I am not confident he has that sort of liquid cash to hand, much of his wealth is tied up in shares, much of it in his own businesses, which are not performing well at this time (no business is anywhere, Ukio Bankas may well be holding its own, but we are talking about a bank making a profit of ?20 million, which in major banking terms is loose change, and not the sort of capital to keep a multi faceted "empire" on the march)).

 

With any situation at Hearts it seems rather inevitable that two polarized positions develop, and the thoughts of those somewhere in the middle get sort of lost in the overall scheme of things.

 

It's all about interpretation but sometimes there does seem to be only one way to interpret something - and that decision is often backed up by previous experience of that poster and their regularly adopted tone or level of discourse. Some adapt to different circumstances and scenarios and modify their style of communication accordingly; some not so much. Some don't ever change at all or adapt to what's happening around them.

 

As for your other comments, I agree with pretty much most of it and wouldn't ever suggest that this side of the debate could be considered negative. Questioning and debating isn't negative, that isn't what I was referring to in my previous posts. I'm referring to those who instead opt for pedantry, point scoring and cheap shots...or sometimes just plain old *****ly awkwardness. Stifling and squeezing the breath out of debate with unbearable levels of repetition, mostly.

 

I don't think Hearts fans are polarised at all, these two camps don't seem to exist anywhere other than on JKB. I think it's just a messageboard thing. The nature of the beast, I suppose.