HBoS takeover ( merged threads )

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I'm feeling like a rubbernecker. They're down over 30% this morning.

 

An HSBC/Lloyds lifeboat awaits.

[Walter Bishop]

Almost down 50% Only 88p each!!!!!:eek:

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Lloyds in acquisition talks. Game over on The Mound.

 

Feck knows how many jobs will disappear in Edinburgh as a result.

[Walter Bishop]

Lloyds in acquisition talks. Game over on The Mound.

 

Feck knows how many jobs will disappear in Edinburgh as a result.

 

So what was formerly 4(BOS,Halifax,TSB,Lloyds) massive banking institutions employers of thousands is now more than likely to become 1!!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So what was formerly 4(BOS,Halifax,TSB,Lloyds) massive banking institutions employers of thousands is now more than likely to become 1!!

 

Quite so. Scottish Widows and Clerical Medical are now also part of the same group. Interesting times.

[Gershwin]

I know so many people who work for HBoS (both my flatmates included). Not good. Plus I have some shares that are worth heehaw from the time I worked there.

[cosanostra]

I worked for them for 5 years and saved up thousands of pounds of share bonuses. Luckily I got out in 2004, sold them for about ?9 each and used them to put myself through university.

 

I recall loads of former colleagues with ?30k, ?40k, and more of HBOS shares and these will all bu worth a fraction of what they were.

 

Seems that i'm incredibly lucky to have gotten out when i did.

[argyjambo]

I worked for them for 5 years and saved up thousands of pounds of share bonuses. Luckily I got out in 2004, sold them for about ?9 each and used them to put myself through university.

 

I recall loads of former colleagues with ?30k, ?40k, and more of HBOS shares and these will all bu worth a fraction of what they were.

 

Seems that i'm incredibly lucky to have gotten out when i did.

 

Pretty much in the same boat myself, having recently taken early retirement. Punted a lot of my shares 2 years ago @ ?11.68 each how smug do I sound?. Still got about 1000 shares left. showing a 50% loss on them but will hold for long term.

Sharesave accounts have to be wound up but no way will I buy the shares, I'll take the cash & put it in to the black hole known as putting twins through Uni.

 

Still, i'm not too fussed I'll play the waiting game. feel sorry for a lot of friends I have within HBOS who might have lost out big time.

 

A few I wont be so sorry for though.

 

retirement rocks!....................so far

[thehibsareintheirbeds]

As someone currently sitting in an HBOS office (pretending to work) its all a bit worrying but then we're getting used to it. Nothing official from the bigwigs yet just the usual not commenting on market speculation. Shares have been up and down all morning like a yo yo.....remember they were over ?10 just over a year ago.....

[jambovambo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7620483.stm

[Nelly Terraces]

HBoS deffo getting bought out by Lloyds TSB, and the HBoS share price making a good recovery at that news.

 

What gets me is, this will create a banking giant, and goes totally AGAINST the rules in place to prevent monopolies! But, of course, that doesn't matter and this is apparently our government will see this as 'a good thing' that this takeover is taking place. Funny how, when it suits, these corporate giants are protected and important safeguards and completely disregarded and rules broken to prop up a completely discredited economic system.

 

The whole Western capitalist system has been shown to be a complete fraud. Obscene amounts of money made on lies and worthless 'assets' and when it all goes tits up, the whole thing is protected via broken rules, taxpayers cash and deceit.

 

Sorry, but this takeover is basically illegal isn't it? Therefore it shouldn't go ahead, no? Or will that just be forgotten about? Surely, if the rules are adhered to, then HBoS will be at the mercy of that phrase so loved by those at the top 'market forces will dictate', well if market forces dictate that HBoS aint worth diddly squat, and that any takeover such as that by Lloyds TSB is illegal, then surely HBoS should suffer the fate of any other company dicated by 'market forces', or is it, one rule for some, another rule for others.

 

Feel sorry for the ordinary people working for HBoS etc, got a coupla mates work for them, they'll probably be the ones shafted, as per normal, while the **** execs walk away minted.

[Francis Albert]

Sad to see a once great Edinburgh and Scottish institution disappear, first swallowed by the Halifax and then by the old Trustee Savings Bank. Hard to see the identity of Bank of Scotland surviving on any meaningful way.

[Jammy T]

HBoS deffo getting bought out by Lloyds TSB, and the HBoS share price making a good recovery at that news.

 

What gets me is, this will create a banking giant, and goes totally AGAINST the rules in place to prevent monopolies! But, of course, that doesn't matter and this is apparently our government will see this as 'a good thing' that this takeover is taking place. Funny how, when it suits, these corporate giants are protected and important safeguards and completely disregarded and rules broken to prop up a completely discredited economic system.

 

The whole Western capitalist system has been shown to be a complete fraud. Obscene amounts of money made on lies and worthless 'assets' and when it all goes tits up, the whole thing is protected via broken rules, taxpayers cash and deceit.

 

Sorry, but this takeover is basically illegal isn't it? Therefore it shouldn't go ahead, no? Or will that just be forgotten about? Surely, if the rules are adhered to, then HBoS will be at the mercy of that phrase so loved by those at the top 'market forces will dictate', well if market forces dictate that HBoS aint worth diddly squat, and that any takeover such as that by Lloyds TSB is illegal, then surely HBoS should suffer the fate of any other company dicated by 'market forces', or is it, one rule for some, another rule for others.

 

Feel sorry for the ordinary people working for HBoS etc, got a coupla mates work for them, they'll probably be the ones shafted, as per normal, while the **** execs walk away minted.

 

 

In times like this the rules are getting ditched left right and centre

 

Better at this time for a market to be monopolised than to crash completely....

 

We are now seeing the start of the impact of the greed of a few on the pockets of the many.

 

Years of share issues to employees almost worthless....jobs at risk...

 

Sadly this is just the start of the next phase. The first phase being the more intangible - how will sub-prime debt affect me, shrug of the shoulders stuff...

[blairdin]

HBoS deffo getting bought out by Lloyds TSB, and the HBoS share price making a good recovery at that news.

 

What gets me is, this will create a banking giant, and goes totally AGAINST the rules in place to prevent monopolies! But, of course, that doesn't matter and this is apparently our government will see this as 'a good thing' that this takeover is taking place. Funny how, when it suits, these corporate giants are protected and important safeguards and completely disregarded and rules broken to prop up a completely discredited economic system.

 

The whole Western capitalist system has been shown to be a complete fraud. Obscene amounts of money made on lies and worthless 'assets' and when it all goes tits up, the whole thing is protected via broken rules, taxpayers cash and deceit.

 

Sorry, but this takeover is basically illegal isn't it? Therefore it shouldn't go ahead, no? Or will that just be forgotten about? Surely, if the rules are adhered to, then HBoS will be at the mercy of that phrase so loved by those at the top 'market forces will dictate', well if market forces dictate that HBoS aint worth diddly squat, and that any takeover such as that by Lloyds TSB is illegal, then surely HBoS should suffer the fate of any other company dicated by 'market forces', or is it, one rule for some, another rule for others.

 

Feel sorry for the ordinary people working for HBoS etc, got a coupla mates work for them, they'll probably be the ones shafted, as per normal, while the **** execs walk away minted.

 

We're sitting in Scottish Widows discussing that very thing right now. From the point of view of the Widows people, first impression is that there is scope for Clerical Medical andf Scottish Widows to run together, similar companies, similar products, different markets.

 

However, doesn't make this right.

 

As I understand it, Lloyds Bank are not hugely exposed to the collapse of the American market so can easily afford to achieve this. Lloyds will be portrayed as a knight in shining armour riding to the resuce of the UKs biggest mortgage lender, but in reality when the dust settles this giant will control a huge majority of the UK mortgage and personal banking sector.

 

No doubt the monopolies and mergers commission will be told to keep shtoom and butt out by No11 Downing Street.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Keeping the system afloat is more important than objecting to the takeover. In any event, you have to credit Lloyds for keeping their nose relatively clean while the rest fed at the toxic trough - HBoS are paying the price of that, probably in a vain attempt to keep up with RBS.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if before this ends, RBS and Barclays end up in a shotgun wedding as well.

[Randy Marsh]

This is great news for myself.

 

I hate HBOS more than Hibs and nearly as much as Celtic.

 

After what this ****my financial institution put me through a few years ago it just makes me laugh.

 

HBOS die!

[Nelly Terraces]

We're sitting in Scottish Widows discussing that very thing right now. From the point of view of the Widows people, first impression is that there is scope for Clerical Medical andf Scottish Widows to run together, similar companies, similar products, different markets.

 

However, doesn't make this right.

 

As I understand it, Lloyds Bank are not hugely exposed to the collapse of the American market so can easily afford to achieve this. Lloyds will be portrayed as a knight in shining armour riding to the resuce of the UKs biggest mortgage lender, but in reality when the dust settles this giant will control a huge majority of the UK mortgage and personal banking sector.

 

No doubt the monopolies and mergers commission will be told to keep shtoom and butt out by No11 Downing Street.

 

Spot on, like I said the government will see this as a good thing for starters.

 

Everybody's like 'oh, what will be the eventual outcome of all this turmoil!', and creaming their jockeys about it. I'll tell you, and it's so f ****** g obvious, the outcome will be, even bigger banking and financial institutions than before, even more protection for their discredited working practices and a reduction in competition meaning less choice and more expensive finance for the ordinary punter. Of cousre, we'll al be told then that 'market forces dictate' that you can't get a decent deal on a mortgage etc. Its just 'put up with it you indolent scrotes, we're in power and we can do as we please'.

 

Loving this on the day the BAA announce they're selling off Gatwick after being told to get rid of one of their main airports by the monopolies & mergers! Talk about fiddling while Rome burns, like it f*****g matters who runs a bloody airport, like any ordinary joe will see any benefit whatsoever. Who runs an airport? Who the ****** cares?

 

The whole things a sick joke.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

This is great news for myself.

 

I hate HBOS more than Hibs and nearly as much as Celtic.

 

After what this ****my financial institution put me through a few years ago it just makes me laugh.

 

HBOS die!

 

There is an element of schadenfreude after their part in the aborted sale of Tynecastle. To be fair, though, I think they were free of blame in that regard.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Spot on, like I said the government will see this as a good thing for starters.

 

Everybody's like 'oh, what will be the eventual outcome of all this turmoil!', and creaming their jockeys about it. I'll tell you, and it's so f ****** g obvious, the outcome will be, even bigger banking and financial institutions than before, even more protection for their discredited working practices and a reduction in competition meaning less choice and more expensive finance for the ordinary punter. Of cousre, we'll al be told then that 'market forces dictate' that tyou can't get a ecent deal on a mortgage etc. Its just 'put up with it you indolent scrotes, we're in power and we can do as we please'.

 

Loving this on the day the BAA announce they're selling off Gatwick after being told to get rid of one of their main airports by the monopolies & mergers! Talk about fiddling while Rome burns, like it f*****g matters who runs a bloody airport, like any ordinary joe will see any benefit whatsoever. Who runs an airport? Who the ****** cares?

 

The whole things a sick joke.

 

According to Robert Peston on the BBC, Gordon Brown called Lloyds chairman, Sir Victor Blank, and asked him to supply the lifeboat.

 

I wonder how much the Bank of England has helped out behind the scenes?

[david mcgee]

Once HBOS is out of the way, watch the City concentrate on RBS.

 

Sir Fred is very quiet but the noose will be tightening around his neck next, his ego trip in taking over ABN Amro will come back to haunt him.

 

He should be facing court action never mind being knighted.

 

As Bill Clinton said "these guys got the gold mine and gave the rest of us the shaft".

[coppercrutch]

This is great news for myself.

 

I hate HBOS more than Hibs and nearly as much as Celtic.

 

After what this ****my financial institution put me through a few years ago it just makes me laugh.

 

HBOS die!

 

Quality.

 

I do at present recieve income from one of these big banks. However I can't help agreeing with your views. They are generally horrible institutions

 

To explain:

 

I feel like I would feel if I was a football player and signed by Celtic.

 

I hate the organisation, I would hate what I was part of - but I couldn't turn the job/money down.

 

In a strange way I don't mind if I am forced to find a different sort of work. I will continue to take the money whilst it is on offer, to decline it would be stupid.

 

However when the gravy train stops I won't be too upset getting off.

[Nelly Terraces]

Keeping the system afloat is more important than objecting to the takeover. In any event, you have to credit Lloyds for keeping their nose relatively clean while the rest fed at the toxic trough - HBoS are paying the price of that, probably in a vain attempt to keep up with RBS.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if before this ends, RBS and Barclays end up in a shotgun wedding as well.

 

How do they make that out? What they're saying is that, no matter how flawed 'the system' is, no matter how corrupt, no matter how much it's been proven not to work, it must be protected?

 

At least the lie is out now I guess. The planet's screwed, more and more people plunged into grinding poverty, across the world and in GB people unable to feed themselves, heat their houses, pay a mortgage, live a life worth living, but lets protect the gluttenous western capitalist system, and the few disgusting super-rich who control it? That's just sick.

[Super T]

Theres not really any difference in merging, taking over or dying. Ulitmately you will be left with 4 large banks only competing between themselves.

 

The difference between this and airports is that there is only 1 large operator in that sector whereas in banking there are more than 1 large operator.

[Boris]

Yea capitalism...

[Maximus]

Let's firebomb the basas!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

How do they make that out? What they're saying is that, no matter how flawed 'the system' is, no matter how corrupt, no matter how much it's been proven not to work, it must be protected?

 

At least the lie is out now I guess. The planet's screwed, more and more people plunged into grinding poverty, across the world and in GB people unable to feed themselves, heat their houses, pay a mortgage, live a life worth living, but lets protect the gluttenous western capitalist system, and the few disgusting super-rich who control it? That's just sick.

 

Because a run on the bank the size of HBoS would end up leading to anarchy. Some people might be happy with that but it would end up with troops on the street to restore order.

 

EDIT: That doesn't mean the rules of the game don't need to change.

[Maximus]

So what it's time for capitalism to collapse.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So what it's time for capitalism to collapse.

 

Yep, let's replace it with one of those wonderful systems that have worked so well - communism failed, socialism failed, fascism failed. Let's try sharia law.

[blairdin]

Keeping the system afloat is more important than objecting to the takeover. In any event, you have to credit Lloyds for keeping their nose relatively clean while the rest fed at the toxic trough - HBoS are paying the price of that, probably in a vain attempt to keep up with RBS.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if before this ends, RBS and Barclays end up in a shotgun wedding as well.

 

I accept what you say about keeping the system afloat, but I fundamentally disagree with the political creation of a banking giant on this scale to do it. This credit bite will not last forever, and when the dust settles a huge financial institution could have a bigger influence on the finances of Joe Public than the Bank of England.

 

IMHO the government set a dangerous precedence with the Northern Rock mess. Having done that, if Gordon Brown wants to save HBOS from a run, he should have called the treasury and not his pal at Lloyds.

 

The Monopolies and Mergers commission should be allowed to scrutinise this takeover fully.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I accept what you say about keeping the system afloat, but I fundamentally disagree with the political creation of a banking giant on this scale to do it. This credit bite will not last forever, and when the dust settles a huge financial institution could have a bigger influence on the finances of Joe Public than the Bank of England.

 

IMHO the government set a dangerous precedence with the Northern Rock mess. Having done that, if Gordon Brown wants to save HBOS from a run, he should have called the treasury and not his pal at Lloyds.

 

The Monopolies and Mergers commission should be allowed to scrutinise this takeover fully.

 

The treasury is in no position to offer any sort of support to HBoS - it needed the banks to sort this out.

 

And I also think it won't be the last super merger. RBS and Barclays could be the next shotgun wedding.

 

Go for Nationwide. I always favoured them in the UK and I still have an account with them.

[david mcgee]

I accept what you say about keeping the system afloat, but I fundamentally disagree with the political creation of a banking giant on this scale to do it. This credit bite will not last forever, and when the dust settles a huge financial institution could have a bigger influence on the finances of Joe Public than the Bank of England.

 

IMHO the government set a dangerous precedence with the Northern Rock mess. Having done that, if Gordon Brown wants to save HBOS from a run, he should have called the treasury and not his pal at Lloyds.

 

The Monopolies and Mergers commission should be allowed to scrutinise this takeover fully.

 

Stop worrying, in a few years time you wont need a bank to sort out a mortgage for you.

 

You will be able to buy a house for a goat, a sack of tatties and a bag of sprouts.

[Brian Whittaker's Tache]

My mates just about to jump off his roof

 

Has worked for HBOS since he left school at 17 and from the get go ploughed all his spare cash into the company share scheme (bulletproof or so was the thinking) as a pension (He wanted to retire in 4 years time)

 

He reckon's if he had cashed out last year when they were over a tenner he would have been nearly a million quid to the good.

 

Today he's fecked....

 

And he's just an ordinary punter with a desk job, no fat cat

[Maximus]

Yep, let's replace it with one of those wonderful systems that have worked so well - communism failed, socialism failed, fascism failed. Let's try sharia law.

They all fail when you put arseholes in charge. Capitalism is no different. In fact the real reason the first 2 have failed is because in the countries that have adopted them they have quickly been abandoned in favour of extreme capitalist ideals (by those at the top) just look at China.

 

Why do you think the yanks feared (true) communism so much - because if somehow people figured out how to make it work it would mean a permanent end to folk like the Rothschilds and Rockerfellas. 'The American Dream' is only lived by the few, the rest (of the world) have to suffer to support them.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

They all fail when you put arseholes in charge. Capitalism is no different. In fact the real reason the first 2 have failed is because they have been abandoned in favour of extreme capitalist ideals (by those at the top).

 

Why do you think the yanks feared (true) communism so much - because if somehow people figured out how to make it work it would mean a permanent end to folk like the Rothschilds and Rockerfellas. 'The American Dream' is only lived by the few, the rest (of the world) have to suffer to support them.

 

Name me a politician that wasn't an arsehole in some shape or form?

 

Capitalism is the best of a bad lot.

[Boris]

They all fail when you put arseholes in charge. Capitalism is no different. In fact the real reason the first 2 have failed is because in the countries that have adopted them they have quickly been abandoned in favour of extreme capitalist ideals (by those at the top) just look at China.

 

Why do you think the yanks feared (true) communism so much - because if somehow people figured out how to make it work it would mean a permanent end to folk like the Rothschilds and Rockerfellas. 'The American Dream' is only lived by the few, the rest (of the world) have to suffer to support them.

 

Well said Comrade.

[blairdin]

The treasury is in no position to offer any sort of support to HBoS - it needed the banks to sort this out.

 

And I also think it won't be the last super merger. RBS and Barclays could be the next shotgun wedding.

 

Go for Nationwide. I always favoured them in the UK and I still have an account with them.

 

Couldn't agree more Geoff.

 

Despite working in financial services, I'm a medical assessor and can't pretend to know much about the situations of the banking sector. I can only look at how this might affect me long term as a consumer. And an organisation the size of the one created by mergers like Lloyds/HBOS and RBS/Barclays are not going to offer me much.

 

I think the treasury reacted completely wrongly to the Northern Rock situation and whether I like it or not, I now effectively own a little part of that mess. I think it was short-sighted to prop up Northern Rock. Surely someone (other then CC I jest) must have seen this coming?

[Maximus]

Name me a politician that wasn't an arsehole in some shape or form?

 

Capitalism is the best of a bad lot.

Strip away the surface and all capitalism is in reality is the worst of human nature. Greed. So calling it the best of a bad lot is not strictly true. The only reason everything else fails is because capitalism corrupts absolutely. There is no way any other system will be allowed to work while greed prevails.

[Gershwin]

On the upside it will probably mean the end of Howard. Hope he put all his money in to sharesave.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Strip away the surface and all capitalism is in reality is the worst of human nature. Greed. So calling it the best of a bad lot is not strictly true. The only reason everything else fails is because capitalism corrupts absolutely. There is no way any other system will be allowed to work while greed prevails.

 

A philosophical point but humans are naturally greedy. That's why we think it is fair that if we work hard we get rewarded and those that don't, don't.

 

This situation is the 21st century South Sea bubble and banks will never be trusted in the same fashion again. This isn't a bad thing. We need to learn from our mistakes and be far more discerning. We should also demand that those that fail are stripped of their rewards. The thing that sticks in the craw is when these things go belly up, the "package" the bigwigs get means that they can live on a yacht in the Med/Florida/Gold Coast for the rest of their days. That has to change.

[Boris]

A philosophical point but humans are naturally greedy. That's why we think it is fair that if we work hard we get rewarded and those that don't, don't.

 

 

I disagree when you say Humans are naturally greedy. I don't think that they are. Yes, living in a capitalist environment makes (some) humans greedy but equally if we had lived for three centuries in a socialist/communist society we would have a different outlook on life.

 

This situation is the 21st century South Sea bubble and banks will never be trusted in the same fashion again. This isn't a bad thing. We need to learn from our mistakes and be far more discerning. We should also demand that those that fail are stripped of their rewards. The thing that sticks in the craw is when these things go belly up, the "package" the bigwigs get means that they can live on a yacht in the Med/Florida/Gold Coast for the rest of their days. That has to change.

 

But that's capitalism in a nutshell!

[Nelly Terraces]

Theres not really any difference in merging, taking over or dying. Ulitmately you will be left with 4 large banks only competing between themselves.

 

The difference between this and airports is that there is only 1 large operator in that sector whereas in banking there are more than 1 large operator.

 

The difference between this and airports is, these massive institutions who have been trading fraudulently, gorging themselves on obscene amounts of money, will have an an overwhelming affect over ordinary people's daily lives. Completely unelected institutions will have more of an influence on how you and I live.

 

The other is a f ***** g airport.

 

It's called perspective.

 

Cheers.

 

Tucker.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I disagree when you say Humans are naturally greedy. I don't think that they are. Yes, living in a capitalist environment makes (some) humans greedy but equally if we had lived for three centuries in a socialist/communist society we would have a different outlook on life.

 

 

 

But that's capitalism in a nutshell!

 

Would you kill another human if you had to feed your family?

 

I would.

 

I'm not arguing that it is our desired outcome but it is what we will do if the rules of the game are so desperate that our relatives needs trumps any other consideration.

[Maximus]

The thing that sticks in the craw is when these things go belly up, the "package" the bigwigs get means that they can live on a yacht in the Med/Florida/Gold Coast for the rest of their days. That has to change.

That is simply the Capitalist ideas at work. The greediest get the best rewards, they are the law. This is why our precious 'Democracies' are a farce, no matter who is in the seat of power they will have their hands tied because they don't hold the purse strings, which is all that really matters in todays world. The idea planted in our heads that we can have any sort of control upon the destiny of our nation is nothing but an elaborate illusion. The average citizen has no voice, only money talks.

[Maximus]

Would you kill another human if you had to feed your family?

we're talking about capitalism not cannibalism

[Boris]

Would you kill another human if you had to feed your family?

 

I would.

 

I'm not arguing that it is our desired outcome but it is what we will do if the rules of the game are so desperate that our relatives needs trumps any other consideration.

 

But that isn't greed you've described....

[blairdin]

But that isn't greed you've described....

 

Not necessarily - I guess it depends how much of said dead body Geoff eats before he lets his wife and kids share a limb...

[Boris]

Completely unelected institutions will have more of an influence on how you and I live.

 

 

They already do Tucker J me old son.

 

That is the facade of western liberal "democracy".

 

Kerching!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

But that isn't greed you've described....

 

It's greed if I take their resources.

 

Capitalism is what allows me to reward myself with a break in Edinburgh next year to watch Heart of Midlothian for my hard work. It allows the airline transporting me there to make some money for the privilege of doing so. It allows HMFC to make some money on my arse filling a seat. It is because I choose to spend the money in that way that gives us the freedom.

 

With socialism, I would probably have to book 2 years in advance because some bureaucrat is too busy trying to control the forces of supply and demand and failing miserably. With communism, I wouldn't even be in this country and would have been sent under orders to some place of work. Under fascism, I would probably be dead!

 

And since sharia law doesn't allow me to enjoy alcohol, that's out as well!

[Boris]

It's greed if I take their resources.

 

 

Again, no. Not by your initial question.

 

Would you kill another human if you had to feed your family?

 

I would.

 

I'm not arguing that it is our desired outcome but it is what we will do if the rules of the game are so desperate that our relatives needs trumps any other consideration.

 

You are talking of need, not greed.

 

Greed would be killing someone even although you didn't have to feed your family, but your initial example says that you DID have to feed your family.

[jambopompey]

This is great news for myself.

 

I hate HBOS more than Hibs and nearly as much as Celtic.

 

After what this ****my financial institution put me through a few years ago it just makes me laugh.

 

HBOS die!

 

have the same feelings for that company, shower of *&*&^^*((