Hearts will .....

[Charlie-Brown]

Hearts will reach peaks again..... and then they'll stumble, and in some post-success seasons everything will seem disasterous, and then they'll resurrect themselves. It's always been like that - and it always will be. A real Hearts fan knows that.

[Jambo2006]

Hearts will reach peaks again..... and then they'll stumble, and in some post-success seasons everything will seem disasterous, and then they'll resurrect themselves. It's always been like that - and it always will be. A real Hearts fan knows that.

 

I call supporters of our club REAL football fans we cant call ourselves glory hunters unlike our friends in the west who supported wee teams until they got peshed off and start following the ugly sisters

[magicTs]

A real Hearts fan knows that.

 

A real Hearts fan would want us to be better and realise our potential and not to accept the mediocrity that has engulfed our club both on and off the park for decades.

[Hearts Heritage]

:107years:

A real Hearts fan would want us to be better and realise our potential and not to accept the mediocrity that has engulfed our club both on and off the park for decades.

:107years:

[magicTs]

:107years::107years:

 

Your point is caller ?

[Charlie-Brown]

A real Hearts fan would want us to be better and realise our potential and not to accept the mediocrity that has engulfed our club both on and off the park for decades.

 

Though we sometimes go down we can aye come back up .... that is a message of hope

 

Hearts of course could be better, bigger & more successful more frequently than they are and sometimes they have been but it's always been a rocky road never a steady path - it's got nothing to do with accepting mediocrity - the reality is there are at least 30 clubs in the UK at least as big or much bigger than Hearts so there is always pressure from teams above us as well as teams below us ... sooner or later other teams will take our better players - that is an economic reality - so it's how well Hearts manage the setbacks that determine whether progress is in forward or reverse gear and simply throwing big money at the problem isn't the answer either.

[Peebo]

Though we sometimes go down we can aye come back up .... that is a message of hope

 

Hearts of course could be better, bigger & more successful more frequently than they are and sometimes they have been but it's always been a rocky road never a steady path - it's got nothing to do with accepting mediocrity - the reality is there are at least 30 clubs in the UK at least as big or much bigger than Hearts so there is always pressure from teams above us as well as teams below us ... sooner or later other teams will take our better players - that is an economic reality - so it's how well Hearts manage the setbacks that determine whether progress is in forward or reverse gear and simply throwing big money at the problem isn't the answer either.

 

It would be interesting to plot our net transfers revenues (in ? value, for example) with our respective league positions over the last 30 years. I suspect the correlation may not be that great.

[Charlie-Brown]

It would be interesting to plot our net transfers revenues (in ? value, for example) with our respective league positions over the last 30 years. I suspect the correlation may not be that great.

 

Hearts have averaged a finishing position of 4th in the SPL since winning promotion in 1983 - that is better than any other non-Old Firm SPL club so we have been the 3rd best team in Scotland in terms of league position but of course we'd all like to see more cups, higher league finishes more frequently - much more european football than we've enjoyed (less than 50% of seasons) so there is plenty of scope for improvement but we have already doing better than everybody else outside Rangers & Celtic over the longer term.

[Peebo]

Hearts have averaged a finishing position of 4th in the SPL since winning promotion in 1983 - that is better than any other non-Old Firm SPL club so we have been the 3rd best team in Scotland in terms of league position but of course we'd all like to see more cups, higher league finishes more frequently - much more european football than we've enjoyed (less than 50% of seasons) so there is plenty of scope for improvement but we have already doing better than everybody else outside Rangers & Celtic over the longer term.

 

Uh-huh. I am not surprised by this fact.

 

Still, the idea that our troughs coincide with when we sell our best players is one that I would be interested to see tested by statistical evidence.

[Charlie-Brown]

Uh-huh. I am not surprised by this fact.

 

Still, the idea that our troughs coincide with when we sell our best players is one that I would be interested to see tested by statistical evidence.

 

I don't know so much of that is when our troughs happen Peebo as opposed to why we can't sustain any success beyond a year or two - both our cup winning teams broke up quite quickly as having achieved success the players had positioned themselves to get international recognition and attract the attention of the Old Firm and English clubs who could offer them more money and/or better prospects.....that is the price of our successful seasons - our players become more attractive commodities - also the fact that we've overspent year on year means we can't afford to keep them as there's always pressure to reduce our debts / losses etc.

[Peebo]

I don't know so much of that is when our troughs happen Peebo as opposed to why we can't sustain any success beyond a year or two - both our cup winning teams broke up quite quickly as having achieved success the players had positioned themselves to get international recognition and attract the attention of the Old Firm and English clubs who could offer them more money and/or better prospects.....that is the price of our successful seasons - our players become more attractive commodities - also the fact that we've overspent year on year means we can't afford to keep them as there's always pressure to reduce our debts / losses etc.

 

I agree with that, to an extent but, even acknowledging the sale of Craig Gordon, I am not sure that our relative finances have actually played much part in our decline since the 2006 cup win.

 

For decades, we have definitely been a bit of a yo-yo club in terms of our league position. I am not sure why that is, but I am not convinced that it can be largely blamed on us selling players. I do think that has been a factor, though.

[Charlie-Brown]

I agree with that, to an extent but, even acknowledging the sale of Craig Gordon, I am not sure that our relative finances have actually played much part in our decline since the 2006 cup win.

 

For decades, we have definitely been a bit of a yo-yo club in terms of our league position. I am not sure why that is, but I am not convinced that it can be largely blamed on us selling players. I do think that has been a factor, though.

 

Pre-Bosman we managed to keep a large core of some really good or decent players together for several seasons & some for the best part of a decade or more (smith, kidd, levein, mcpherson, mclaren, mckinlay, mackay, berry, black, colquhoun, robertson, crabbe, foster) - in this period between 1986 & 1992 we finished 2nd THREE times and 3rd once although remarkably in between these high league placings we finished 5th three times and 6th once so we still for some reason yo-yo'd a lot between good seasons & poorer seasons.....since then bosman came in and players have come & gone much quicker and the bulk of our 2 cup winning teams got sold or broke up in a remarkably quick period.

[The Mighty Thor]

Hearts have averaged a finishing position of 4th in the SPL since winning promotion in 1983 - that is better than any other non-Old Firm SPL club so we have been the 3rd best team in Scotland in terms of league position but of course we'd all like to see more cups, higher league finishes more frequently - much more european football than we've enjoyed (less than 50% of seasons) so there is plenty of scope for improvement but we have already doing better than everybody else outside Rangers & Celtic over the longer term.

 

Just a quick question here.

 

If we've managed an average finishing position of 4th in the SPL how can we be the 3rd best team?

 

Who averaged a finishing position of 3rd in the SPL and should they therefore not be the 3rd best team?

[Jambo66]

Just a quick question here.

 

If we've managed an average finishing position of 4th in the SPL how can we be the 3rd best team?

 

Who averaged a finishing position of 3rd in the SPL and should they therefore not be the 3rd best team?

 

No-one has averaged 3rd position. To average 3rd, it would be necessary to have a fair few top 2 finishes to balance out the 5ths and 6ths etc. While Aberdeen have won the league since 1983, they have also finished bottom as well.

 

On average, neither Celtic or Rangers will have finished 1st, but they will both be averaging between 1st and 2nd.

[siegementality]

Though we sometimes go down we can aye come back up .... that is a message of hope

 

Hearts of course could be better, bigger & more successful more frequently than they are and sometimes they have been but it's always been a rocky road never a steady path - it's got nothing to do with accepting mediocrity - the reality is there are at least 30 clubs in the UK at least as big or much bigger than Hearts so there is always pressure from teams above us as well as teams below us ... sooner or later other teams will take our better players - that is an economic reality - so it's how well Hearts manage the setbacks that determine whether progress is in forward or reverse gear and simply throwing big money at the problem isn't the answer either.

 

We play in Scotland, there are only two teams "much bigger than Hearts" in Scotland. If we were ever in a position to mount a serious challenge to them then it should have been now, whilst we have a multi millionaire at the helm. "Throwing big money" isn't the answer, investing money is. There seems to be little investment in players, hence we are now under pressure from the "teams below us". Not good enough IMO.

[siegementality]

No-one has averaged 3rd position. To average 3rd, it would be necessary to have a fair few top 2 finishes to balance out the 5ths and 6ths etc. While Aberdeen have won the league since 1983, they have also finished bottom as well.

 

On average, neither Celtic or Rangers will have finished 1st, but they will both be averaging between 1st and 2nd.

 

 

Sorry mate, some-one must have the average 3rd place finish, even by virtue of finishing third the most times.

[Jammy T]

I agree with the OP

 

There is no new dawn with Vlad.

 

Its just more of the same end result, just done in a different way. Acceptance of this would make us all get on so much better.

 

A hint of the potential Hearts have has been teasingly shown, and when Vlad moves on we can only hope the new regime is capable of helping deliver this.

 

Until then, sack the basketball experts, and just run us as a top 6 football club.

[The Mighty Thor]

No-one has averaged 3rd position. To average 3rd, it would be necessary to have a fair few top 2 finishes to balance out the 5ths and 6ths etc. While Aberdeen have won the league since 1983, they have also finished bottom as well.

 

On average, neither Celtic or Rangers will have finished 1st, but they will both be averaging between 1st and 2nd.

 

As siege says someone must have finished 3rd on average. They have to have, even if it's by decimal fractions they must have finished 3rd on average.

 

It may well be Hearts, i don't know but someone on average since the inception of the SPL must have finished 3rd.

[Rudolf]

Sorry mate, some-one must have the average 3rd place finish, even by virtue of finishing third the most times.

 

Doesn't work like that eg over a 30 year period a team finishes in the following positions

 

3rd 12

4th 7

5th 11

 

The average is 3.9666 which is more than 3.5 so counts as 4.

[Walter Payton]

Sorry mate, some-one must have the average 3rd place finish, even by virtue of finishing third the most times.

 

No- Somebody must have the 3rd best record, but nobody must average 3rd place. If 10 teams played 10 seasons and in each season all finished in a different position to what they had (as in 1st one year, 2nd another, 3rd another etc.) after the 10 years, EVERY team would have averaged finishing around 5th/6th but they'd all share the same record.

[Coco]

Doesn't work like that eg over a 30 year period a team finishes in the following positions

 

3rd 12

4th 7

5th 11

 

The average is 3.9666 which is more than 3.5 so counts as 4.

 

Yes the average would be different from the 'ranking' position.

 

Aberdeen must rank 3rd since the start of the SPL?

[siegementality]

No- Somebody must have the 3rd best record, but nobody must average 3rd place. If 10 teams played 10 seasons and in each season all finished in a different position to what they had (as in 1st one year, 2nd another, 3rd another etc.) after the 10 years, EVERY team would have averaged finishing around 5th/6th but they'd all share the same record.

 

Fair enough, average 3rd place or 3rd best record, much the same thing in this particular context.

[Jammy T]

We play in Scotland, there are only two teams "much bigger than Hearts" in Scotland. If we were ever in a position to mount a serious challenge to them then it should have been now, whilst we have a multi millionaire at the helm. "Throwing big money" isn't the answer, investing money is. There seems to be little investment in players, hence we are now under pressure from the "teams below us". Not good enough IMO.

 

Not good enough if 1. our owner really was rich, and 2. his aim was to challenge the old firm

 

However, to be as we always have been - mostly towards top half of league but occasional really gash seasons where 1. our owner is cash poor but has access to extended credit, 2. he is completely ill-equipped to properly run and manage a substantial football club in a culture alien to him, and 3. where his principle aim, above all others, is to sell players when the achieve their maximum sell on value - is what we will achieve under Vlad and I guess we should accept this.

 

Its just a matter of hoping that Vlad doesnt do too many more mental things, and doesnt bankrupt us, or himself, before he moves on.

 

In the meantime, if we are as we have always been, then so what?

 

Its not a backing or validation or Vlad but a resignation as to where we are

[Walter Payton]

Fair enough, average 3rd place or 3rd best record, much the same thing in this particular context.

 

You were the one arguing with somebody who said that Hearts had the 3rd best record whilst averaging 4th place which is perfectly true!

[siegementality]

You were the one arguing with somebody who said that Hearts had the 3rd best record whilst averaging 4th place which is perfectly true!

 

Arguing! hardly.

[Coco]

You were the one arguing with somebody who said that Hearts had the 3rd best record whilst averaging 4th place which is perfectly true!

 

Have we really got a better ranking record than Aberdeen? They've won the thing a couple of times! And haven't been relegated (well at least not in actual reality).

[Walter Payton]

Have we really got a better ranking record than Aberdeen? They've won the thing a couple of times! And haven't been relegated (well at least not in actual reality).

 

Not sure over all time, but the original poster was talking about since Hearts came up in 1983- it's definitely true since the SPL was formed though.

[peckhamjambo]

Have we really got a better ranking record than Aberdeen? They've won the thing a couple of times! And haven't been relegated (well at least not in actual reality).

 

Surely the easiest way of determining this for sure is to add up each team's finishes over the last however many years, then the team with the least number is 1st, the next least is 2nd and so on and so forth...............would love to have the time to do it myself but work calls!!!

[The Mighty Thor]

You were the one arguing with somebody who said that Hearts had the 3rd best record whilst averaging 4th place which is perfectly true!

 

It was actually me arguing the toss with Charlie over the phrasing of it which made no sense to me;

 

I've done the homework thanks to London Hearts and the results are as follows;

 

Over the 25 years of the SPL the average of finishing positions is as follows;

 

Rangers 1st

Celtic 2nd

Hearts 3rd

Aberdeen 4th

Dundee Utd 5th

Hibs 6th

 

I couldn't be arsed doing the others so there it is.

[Walter Payton]

It was actually me arguing the toss with Charlie over the phrasing of it which made no sense to me;

 

I've done the homework thanks to London Hearts and the results are as follows;

 

Over the 25 years of the SPL the average of finishing positions is as follows;

 

Rangers 1st

Celtic 2nd

Hearts 3rd

Aberdeen 4th

Dundee Utd 5th

Hibs 6th

 

I couldn't be arsed doing the others so there it is.

 

 

SiegeMentality did too, 2 posts further down than yours

[Peebo]

Pre-Bosman we managed to keep a large core of some really good or decent players together for several seasons & some for the best part of a decade or more (smith, kidd, levein, mcpherson, mclaren, mckinlay, mackay, berry, black, colquhoun, robertson, crabbe, foster) - in this period between 1986 & 1992 we finished 2nd THREE times and 3rd once although remarkably in between these high league placings we finished 5th three times and 6th once so we still for some reason yo-yo'd a lot between good seasons & poorer seasons.....since then bosman came in and players have come & gone much quicker and the bulk of our 2 cup winning teams got sold or broke up in a remarkably quick period.

 

What you are saying is exactly what motivates my point...

[Spellczech]

Sustained growth and sustained success go hand in hand. As NMH notes Hearts are a club that players look to advance from, following a cup win. The only way to change this is to build the stadium so that revenues increase, higher wages are affordable and staying put becomes more attractive to players.

 

The OF will always try to destroy any good team that is put together in the SPL. The only way to prevent this is to hold onto good players, and the only way to do this is for the owners to make it clear that sustained success is the aim after a future bit of silverware. It may take one day immediately shelling out for a good player in the aftermath of a cup win, to light the touchpaper, but the infrastructure has to be in place to be able to afford this and cope with the influx of returning/new fans - ie a bigger stadium, with better income streams and sustainable debt - We MUST have ORGANIC growth first.

 

Players values do rise after a cup win and one or two may have to go each time. The trick is to only sell those players that we can replace. That's what the Academy is for.

 

Hearts have/are putting things in place for sustained organic growth off the pitch. We may have to wait a bit longer for things to get better on the pitch once again, but I for one am a patient guy - you have to be as a Hearts fan. And I'll welcome all the Johnny-come-latelys once more when things do get going again.

[Charlie-Brown]

What you are saying is exactly what motivates my point...

 

We still yo-yo'd and climbed/fell 2 or 3 places in the league each season on average in the 10 years between 1983-84 and 1992-93 but during this period the only significant player sales were Dave Bowman 1985, John Robertson 1998 (but he quickly came back) and latterly Crabbe,McPherson, McKinlay & McLaren left the club in the period 1992-94 which along with the ageing/retirement of several core players meant we finished 5th, 6th, 7th, 5th & 5th in the seasons between 1993-97.

 

We had our best seasons when we had a stable team and relatively stable management over a long period - change of ownership (twice), stadium reconstruction, the bosman ruling, and big overspending/debt increases has seen much greater instability and change and the successful boom seasons followed by quick bust and disillusionment.........

[peckhamjambo]

It was actually me arguing the toss with Charlie over the phrasing of it which made no sense to me;

 

I've done the homework thanks to London Hearts and the results are as follows;

 

Over the 25 years of the SPL the average of finishing positions is as follows;

 

Rangers 1st

Celtic 2nd

Hearts 3rd

Aberdeen 4th

Dundee Utd 5th

Hibs 6th

 

I couldn't be arsed doing the others so there it is.

 

Were we 3rd by some margin or was it quite tight with the sheep?

[Peebo]

We still yo-yo'd and climbed/fell 2 or 3 places in the league each season on average in the 10 years between 1983-84 and 1992-93 but during this period the only significant player sales were Dave Bowman 1985, John Robertson 1998 (but he quickly came back) and latterly Crabbe,McPherson, McKinlay & McLaren left the club in the period 1992-94 which along with the ageing/retirement of several core players meant we finished 5th, 6th, 7th, 5th & 5th in the seasons between 1993-97.

 

We had our best seasons when we had a stable team and relatively stable management over a long period - change of ownership (twice), stadium reconstruction, the bosman ruling, and big overspending/debt increases has seen much greater instability and change and the successful boom seasons followed by quick bust and disillusionment.........

 

Yup, I agree with most of that. Although the 2005-2006 season, our best in my lifetime (2nd place and the cup) came at a time of huge instability (new owner, 3 managers in one season...).

[jamboinglasgow]

Sustained growth and sustained success go hand in hand. As NMH notes Hearts are a club that players look to advance from, following a cup win. The only way to change this is to build the stadium so that revenues increase, higher wages are affordable and staying put becomes more attractive to players.

 

The OF will always try to destroy any good team that is put together in the SPL. The only way to prevent this is to hold onto good players, and the only way to do this is for the owners to make it clear that sustained success is the aim after a future bit of silverware. It may take one day immediately shelling out for a good player in the aftermath of a cup win, to light the touchpaper, but the infrastructure has to be in place to be able to afford this and cope with the influx of returning/new fans - ie a bigger stadium, with better income streams and sustainable debt - We MUST have ORGANIC growth first.

 

Players values do rise after a cup win and one or two may have to go each time. The trick is to only sell those players that we can replace. That's what the Academy is for.

 

Hearts have/are putting things in place for sustained organic growth off the pitch. We may have to wait a bit longer for things to get better on the pitch once again, but I for one am a patient guy - you have to be as a Hearts fan. And I'll welcome all the Johnny-come-latelys once more when things do get going again.

 

 

very sensible post there. In my mind things are improving at hearts and not this season and maybe not next season but after that I feel we will be in a postion to surprise people. I think in Csaba we have a manager who can take hearts onto the next level in terms of both onfield football and behind the scenes football (academy, scouting, working with vlad.) In building a new stand we are trying to increase our capacity and in terms our earnings from matches. We are matching this with trying to get supporters when they are young such as the magnificent seven initive. We are getting there in terms of building the club to have a smaller debt and bigger capicty matched with an improved system of being self-suficient in players. Will take time but I think in two seasons time we may have the abilty to take on the OF.

 

Also agree that if we get big offers for our players, we only sell if we have a few players that can come into this posistion. One example I would say is the fullback posistion. At the momment we are a bit short there at the momment but in a few seasons time I feel we will have many. Robbie, Thomson and Jonsson at RB. At LB you have Wallace and in a season or two Delands and even Coll. Johnny Brown can play either side. So selling one or two would not mean hearts suffer, it could help pay for other people or keep the debt low.

[LarrysRightFoot]

the reality is there are at least 30 clubs in the UK at least as big or much bigger than Hearts

 

Was'nt there a fairly recent pole that said Hearts were the 18th? biggest club in Britain?

[LarrysRightFoot]

Yes the average would be different from the 'ranking' position.

 

Aberdeen must rank 3rd since the start of the SPL?

 

Since the start of the SPL? I would be surprised if Aberdeen were 4th never mind 3rd!

[Jammy T]

Sustained growth and sustained success go hand in hand. As NMH notes Hearts are a club that players look to advance from, following a cup win. The only way to change this is to build the stadium so that revenues increase, higher wages are affordable and staying put becomes more attractive to players.

 

The OF will always try to destroy any good team that is put together in the SPL. The only way to prevent this is to hold onto good players, and the only way to do this is for the owners to make it clear that sustained success is the aim after a future bit of silverware. It may take one day immediately shelling out for a good player in the aftermath of a cup win, to light the touchpaper, but the infrastructure has to be in place to be able to afford this and cope with the influx of returning/new fans - ie a bigger stadium, with better income streams and sustainable debt - We MUST have ORGANIC growth first.

 

Players values do rise after a cup win and one or two may have to go each time. The trick is to only sell those players that we can replace. That's what the Academy is for.

 

Hearts have/are putting things in place for sustained organic growth off the pitch. We may have to wait a bit longer for things to get better on the pitch once again, but I for one am a patient guy - you have to be as a Hearts fan. And I'll welcome all the Johnny-come-latelys once more when things do get going again.

 

The theory in this is good.

 

I am not sure it can be presumed that Vlad is working towards this theory.

 

The way he deals with players / his transfer shenanigans in particular thwart it a bit

 

He's continuing the youth started prior to his arrival and he has progressed plans at least for a new stand.

 

But the nuts and bolts football issues - management and players - still reeks a bit of somebody that doesnt really understand the game.

[Fourcandles]

Since the start of the SPL? I would be surprised if Aberdeen were 4th never mind 3rd!

 

I'm pretty sure that the Mutton Molesters won more in the 80's decade than anyone else - more trophies than either of the OF.

 

[Coco]

Since the start of the SPL? I would be surprised if Aberdeen were 4th never mind 3rd!

 

Good point. I have just thought about this and realised I was talking about since the start of the Premier League in 75 or 76 and not the SPL!

 

Aberdeen won the Premier League a few times at the sort of time when we were repeatedly being relegated! But in the SPL yes they have been terrible.

[LarrysRightFoot]

I'm pretty sure that the Mutton Molesters won more in the 80's decade than anyone else - more trophies than either of the OF.

 

 

It's since the start of the SPL though mate!

[Jammy T]

Why is the SPL the measure of anything

 

The SPL was essentially just an evolution of the Premier league. Not a lot changed.

 

The major change was at the time of the Premier League - shouldnt that be the benchmark?

 

Does it matter?

[leginten]

Hearts will reach peaks again..... and then they'll stumble, and in some post-success seasons everything will seem disasterous, and then they'll resurrect themselves. It's always been like that - and it always will be. A real Hearts fan knows that.

 

If only that had been the line adopted by everyone from the owner downwards at the beginning of this "project". But, as you well know, it wasn't.

[Jammy T]

If only that had been the line adopted by everyone from the owner downwards at the beginning of this "project". But, as you well know, it wasn't.

 

But the lines he fed us at the beginning were bull

 

That much is obvious now

 

We all had takeover goggles on at the time, but now that the hangover has kicked in the leggy blond with everything you would ever want has turned out to be a slightly scatty slightly mental transexual

[Spellczech]

The theory in this is good.

 

I am not sure it can be presumed that Vlad is working towards this theory.

 

The way he deals with players / his transfer shenanigans in particular thwart it a bit

 

He's continuing the youth started prior to his arrival and he has progressed plans at least for a new stand.

 

But the nuts and bolts football issues - management and players - still reeks a bit of somebody that doesnt really understand the game.

 

We need to get to a position where we win more silverware. Hibs got great prices for young players a couple of years ago but we got the same amount for one cup-winning young goalkeeper...Skacel's value doubled with the cup win. Bednar too got sold at a big profit. A million for Hartley was good business as his age was borderline and his talent has waned since.

 

Notice though that the older players left for nothing - Elvis, Fyssas, Jani. Tall escpaed for nothing but he came on a free too so I suspect he plays the Bosman rule...That's a risk you take with Bosmans.

 

If the Academy and canny buying can produce young players that can win a Cup every 4-5 years instead of one or two in a team that gets a cup every 10-20 years then Hearts will pay off their debt pretty quickly. Sustainable, organic devlelopment is the key to running a football club and Hearts appear to be doing this now...

[Charlie-Brown]

But the lines he fed us at the beginning were bull

 

That much is obvious now

 

We all had takeover goggles on at the time, but now that the hangover has kicked in the leggy blond with everything you would ever want has turned out to be a slightly scatty slightly mental transexual

 

Something you wish to confess J_T ? Was it a 'Begbie' moment ?

[Jammy T]

We need to get to a position where we win more silverware. Hibs got great prices for young players a couple of years ago but we got the same amount for one cup-winning young goalkeeper...Skacel's value doubled with the cup win. Bednar too got sold at a big profit. A million for Hartley was good business as his age was borderline and his talent has waned since.

 

Notice though that the older players left for nothing - Elvis, Fyssas, Jani. Tall escpaed for nothing but he came on a free too so I suspect he plays the Bosman rule...That's a risk you take with Bosmans.

 

If the Academy and canny buying can produce young players that can win a Cup every 4-5 years instead of one or two in a team that gets a cup every 10-20 years then Hearts will pay off their debt pretty quickly. Sustainable, organic devlelopment is the key to running a football club and Hearts appear to be doing this now...

 

Oh its clear with Banks being punted that if you dont have the sniff of a sell on value at Hearts then you are out - no matter the immediate or short term impact.

 

Not sure where Ksnavicius fits into that being a 30something, but he has dropped out the starting line up I guess

 

Look I absolutely agree with you, I just have my doubts that silverware is ultimately Vlads aim, and even if it is his people management skills (or lack thereof) appear to be a huge disability to him achieving them

[Jammy T]

Something you wish to confess J_T ? Was it a 'Begbie' moment ?

 

But NMH, we are all in the same bed....some of us are just more appalled at what we have woken up to, others seem quite happy

 

So in fact, is it not you that should be sharing something with the rest of us?

 

[Charlie-Brown]

Aside from Jammy_T's divergence ino multi-gender sexuality.....back on topic.

 

I don't think Hearts, Hibs or any SPL team can fight off selling their best players indefinitely if the bigger clubs want them - the economic differences are currently too great with the Premiership, Old Firm & top Championship clubs all receiving much bigger revenues than Hearts do - the best a club of our size can hope to do is use player contracts to our advantage to keep our best players at the club as long as possible whilst trying to receive the maximum transfer value possible when they are sold.

 

Money received from transfer fees should be used to improve the overall financial situation at the club including paying off debts or investing in club assets/infrastucture or improved contracts for other key players & staff to help retain them at the club as long as possible - not just spending all the money received in the transfer market on fees & wages for replacements for sold players.

 

Starting from a position of large debt, too small stadium with poor corporate facilities...it's probably going to take several years of the football club generating as much money as it can through football activities including selling players before Hearts are properly positioned (minimal debt burden, bigger & better stadium enabling increased matchday revenues) BEFORE Hearts can start to attempt to narrow the gap between themselves and bigger clubs in Scotland and England....but even then the big clubs in the big countries have and will continue to have the demographic & economic advantages over 2nd tier levels of football like the SPL and will attract our best players.