Scrap the CIS?

[davieholt]

I’m going tomorrow night but the only reason I’m going is to see the team, the new players. Is Tullberg any good ? Is the new keeper better than the others ? Will Csaba play 2 up front ? Will they continue with the passing game ? All interesting stuff.

 

But I really can’t get excited about the competition. If we get put out in a future away game I won’t be gutted in the same way I would if it was the Cup.

 

Which leads to the question: what is the CIS Cup for ? It’s silverware I suppose but so was the East of Scotland Shield. The OF – and others - often play under strength teams and the last time Hibs won the league cup we all pished ourselves laughing at them with their ‘diddy cup’.

 

In my view, the SFA should elevate the standing of the competition by reintroducing the mini league format and giving a Euro place to the winner. Either that or scrap the competition altogether as it is just a distraction in its current form.

[shaun.lawson]

Both League Cups north and south of the border should be scrapped IMO. Even with a UEFA Cup spot on offer to the winners down here (which in my view, is an absolute nonsense), I cannot see the purpose of the competition - and a League Cup game I went to at Man City last season had all the competitive edge of a glorified reserve team game. You get tons of upsets down here, which the media get unaccountably excited over, but only because so many sides couldn't give a toss: surely any major trophy is only worth winning when all the competitors really want to lift it?

[Buffalo Bill]

I?m going tomorrow night but the only reason I?m going is to see the team, the new players. Is Tullberg any good ? Is the new keeper better than the others ? Will Csaba play 2 up front ? Will they continue with the passing game ? All interesting stuff.

 

But I really can?t get excited about the competition. If we get put out in a future away game I won?t be gutted in the same way I would if it was the Cup.

 

Which leads to the question: what is the CIS Cup for ? It?s silverware I suppose but so was the East of Scotland Shield. The OF ? and others - often play under strength teams and the last time Hibs won the league cup we all pished ourselves laughing at them with their ?diddy cup?.

 

In my view, the SFA should elevate the standing of the competition by reintroducing the mini league format and giving a Euro place to the winner. Either that or scrap the competition altogether as it is just a distraction in its current form.

 

I'd like to see Hearts win it first in my lifetime to decide whether or not it's worthy.

 

For what it's worth, I'd love to see us bring it back to Gorgie; and I'd get ridiculously drunk as a sideline.

 

Buffalo Bill

 

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[heartsfc_fan]

In my view, the SFA should elevate the standing of the competition by reintroducing the mini league format and giving a Euro place to the winner. Either that or scrap the competition altogether as it is just a distraction in its current form.

 

I like your thinking there.

 

I think we can't really get rid of the CIS cup as it has been around for years. You can't beat a day out at Hampden

 

 

However I think there should be a "British Cup" or something. Where FA and SFA get their heads together (scrap the Carling and CIS Cups). Wishful thinking though

[Tynie b]

I think the CIS or Diddy Cup, as it should be called, should only involve players under the age of 23 and at LEAST 7 of them should be Scottish!!

 

Or, Just scrap it!!

[David McCaig]

I think it actually serves a purpose, in that it gives the likes of Tullberg, Nade, Jonsson, Palazuelos plus the youngsters a chance to get some game time.

 

It also means that there is an extra match to go to whilst I am up in Edinburgh this week.

[Francis Albert]

As one of only two trophies Hearts have a realistic chance of winning, I'd like to keep it please.

[speedbump]

We've won 2 trophies in 40 odd years and some of you want to get rid of 1 of the biggest chance we have of winning one. Mentalists.

[Francis Albert]

As one of only two trophies Hearts have a realistic chance of winning, I'd like to keep it please.

[Flimsy]

I think the League Cup was devalued the moment the UEFA Cup place for the winners was removed. I also don't like the fact that the tournament is now spread from August to March, it was better when the final was in November. The reintroduction of group stages would be disastrous IMO, there would be no appetite for these games from the clubs or fans and attendances would be even more atrocious than they are just now. If the SFA do not award a UEFA Cup place to the winners now that Scotland has 3 guaranteed UEFA Cup places (as opposed to 2 plus 1 Intertoto), it may be time for the tournament to go.

[mattyw_1874]

I think it eserves a purpose its a good competition to bleed youngsters give the 2ND string (over the past 3 weeks anyway) like Ruben Jonnson and as long as Csaba can get an idea of what they can do its a good exercise.

 

Also looking forward to get a look at Tulberg and the new keeper is bound to start.

 

As a competition its a joke up until about the semi final when you start to think of Hampden.

[John Gentleman]

I think it actually serves a purpose, in that it gives the likes of Tullberg, Nade, Jonsson, Palazuelos plus the youngsters a chance to get some game time.

 

With that response I think the OP has answered his/her own question.

 

It's the sort of tournament where you can lose a game, but not lose face. In that respect it serves a purpose.

[davieholt]

With that response I think the OP has answered his/her own question.

 

It's the sort of tournament where you can lose a game, but not lose face. In that respect it serves a purpose.

 

Perhaps, but I don't think CIS would be thrilled to hear that they were sponsoring a competion to allow fringe players some game time

[Buffalo Bill]

I don't think the loss of the European place should've de-valued the trophy.

 

 

Had Hearts won the Coca Cola Cup in 1996, I wouldn't have celebrated for three days because we'd just won a place in the Uefa Cup. The cup (and the tournament) itself is enough for me.

 

 

Whist the whole 'wee team, wee cup' thing was quite funny, I'd still like to go through a 5-1 cup final win myself sometime.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

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[davieholt]

I don't think the loss of the European place should've de-valued the trophy.

 

 

Had Hearts won the Coca Cola Cup in 1996, I wouldn't have celebrated for three days because we'd just won a place in the Uefa Cup. The cup (and the tournament) itself is enough for me.

 

 

Whist the whole 'wee team, wee cup' thing was quite funny, I'd still like to go through a 5-1 cup final win myself sometime.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

Bill, of course I want Hearts to win it. I want them to win every game they play and every competition they enter.

 

But at the back of my mind, at Hampden watching them play Celtic reserves in the final, I would have an uneasy feeling that its not the 'real thing'.

 

I'm sure its just me and 50 years of baggage

[Buffalo Bill]

Bill, of course I want Hearts to win it. I want them to win every game they play and every competition they enter.

 

But at the back of my mind, at Hampden watching them play Celtic reserves in the final, I would have an uneasy feeling that its not the 'real thing'.

 

 

Of course, Davie and me too.

 

But I go back to my original point, and that is that I can't judge it until it happens to me.

 

To be fair, I think I would really enjoy it. We all would: even it it wasn't as good as 1998 etc.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Hearts Heritage]

The reason the cup has been devalued is due to TV and Europe, not the winning of a UEFA Cup place.

 

Teams involved in Europe can now play up to 19 European games in the season. If you qualify for the CL you are guaranteed to play at least 6 before XMAS. Celtic only played 7 games when they won in 1967. Hence why ‘European teams’ are seeded. Therefore reverting back to the ‘Sections’ wouldn’t fit into the calendar.

The lack of TV Coverage / limited sponsorship money / lack of interest by the fans mean that it is very much 4th in the pecking order.

 

Therefore should it be scrapped? Depends on how you view history of Scottish Football and Heart of Midlothian.

 

It was the end of 48 Year wait.

We won the trophy 4 times in 8 years when the ‘Sections’ were notoriously difficult to get out of.

We haven’t won it for 46 years.

The final of 1996 was one of the greatest displays I’ve seen by a Hearts side despite losing.

 

If it is scrapped then there is only 1 trophy that we can realistically win.

 

And look at this photo

 

[topcat]

Perhaps, but I don't think CIS would be thrilled to hear that they were sponsoring a competion to allow fringe players some game time

 

Surely they must already suspect that this is the case unless they're naive enough to think that they're getting as much for their money as Tennents get for their sponsorship of the big cup.

 

The idea that the absence of a UEFA Cup place has devalued the tournament is slightly overstated especially when it's being put forward by the Wedgia. It doesn't explain the way the Old Firm, who never finish outside the top 3 and have no need of a UEFA cup spot, have downgraded it.

 

The introduction of Group stages in European competitions has made the autumn schedule too crowded for the old style league cup where the Semi Finalists were decided by mid September and the whole thing was over and done with before the first Christmas Single was released

 

For example Hearts run to the final in 1996

14 Aug: Stenhousemuir

03 Sep: St Johnstone

17 Sep: Celtic

23 Oct: Dundee

24 Nov: Rangers

 

By playing the tournament before the League campaign really hotted up and having the final midway between Scottish Cup Finals, the League cup could hold centre stage.

 

We all knew it was the the 3rd most important trophy of the year but at least it was the biggest tournament of the Autumn.

 

The equivelant dates for last season were

28 Aug 2007: Stirling Albion

25 Sep 2007: Dunfermline

31 Oct 2007: Celtic

30 Jan 2008: Rangers

with the final being on 16 Mar 2008

Meaning that the whole tournament took 29 weeks almost double the 1996/97 one. By the time our semifinals arrived 13 weeks after the Quarter finals we'd almost forgotten the tournament was still going on.

 

In the three course meal of the domestic season the league was the main course, The Scottish Cup the Desert while the League cup was a starter these days it's a side order.

 

My proposals to reinvigorate the League cup are

 

Firstly move the final back before December, or at least before the Scottish Cup gets going. This will disadvantage teams who are competing in the champions league but if they're making an extra ?10m then they should be able to run a big enough squad to compete in 3 competitions. It will also open up the competition a bit more.

 

Secondly if the Scottish Cup winner has already qualified for Europe then we should send the league cup winner ahead of the Scottish Cup runner up. We haven't got enough spare UEFA cup spaces to dedicate a spare one to the 3rd competition but we can at least offer the chance of being "on standby" for Europe.

 

Thirdly enforce the handball rule properly in semifinals

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I wouldnt scrap it but I would make it a bit more competitve and add a point for bigger teams and state that all SPL (and maybe 1st Div clubs) should treat it as an u23 cup with a few overage players possibly ala the olympics

 

Thus smaller teams would have more chance to play for and also that the bigger clubs would give up and coming players a chance at competitive football

[JamboGraham]

Firstly move the final back before December, or at least before the Scottish Cup gets going. This will disadvantage teams who are competing in the champions league but if they're making an extra ?10m then they should be able to run a big enough squad to compete in 3 competitions. It will also open up the competition a bit more.

 

Secondly if the Scottish Cup winner has already qualified for Europe then we should send the league cup winner ahead of the Scottish Cup runner up. We haven't got enough spare UEFA cup spaces to dedicate a spare one to the 3rd competition but we can at least offer the chance of being "on standby" for Europe.

 

Two excellent suggestions.....I would agree with both of these...

 

Once again though I am stunned that any of us would honestly want to see this tournament, a very real chance each year for Hearts to win a trophy, scrapped. Given the choice of the Scottish Cup or the League Cup then the winner is obvious...However, only twice in 45 years have we truly been able to make that decision. I can't help thinking that our view of this cup has been entirely warped by the fact that Hibs have had recent success in it rather than a balanced judgement on its value to our club.

[Flimsy]

My proposals to reinvigorate the League cup are

 

Firstly move the final back before December, or at least before the Scottish Cup gets going. This will disadvantage teams who are competing in the champions league but if they're making an extra ?10m then they should be able to run a big enough squad to compete in 3 competitions. It will also open up the competition a bit more.

 

Secondly if the Scottish Cup winner has already qualified for Europe then we should send the league cup winner ahead of the Scottish Cup runner up. We haven't got enough spare UEFA cup spaces to dedicate a spare one to the 3rd competition but we can at least offer the chance of being "on standby" for Europe.

 

Thirdly enforce the handball rule properly in semifinals

 

First point - agreed.

 

Second point - UEFA will decide if national cup runners-up will have to play in the UEFA Cup, not the SFA (as Gordon Smith has found out). I don't understand why you don't think there are enough UEFA Cup places as we will have 3 in future, the same number we had when Raith Rovers deservedly represented Scotland in 1994.

 

Thirdly -

[Smoked-Glass]

should defo be a british cup but as soon as the teams competing in europe join. Britian isn't that big a country.

 

UEfa spot and cash prize to the winner. Cash prize for the runner up. Plenty of tv money to be made sky/sentata/bbc/itv/channel 5

[Hearts Heritage]

should defo be a british cup but as soon as the teams competing in europe join. Britian isn't that big a country.

 

UEfa spot and cash prize to the winner. Cash prize for the runner up. Plenty of tv money to be made sky/sentata/bbc/itv/channel 5

 

Apart from

 

1 No Interest from the Big Clubs

2 No Interest from TV

3 No British Cup

[Charlie-Brown]

Has been marginalised since a) losing a european place for the winner the SPL & SFL split - I'd still love hearts to win it ..... I agree it should be a much quicker tournament as topcat said above although european and international dates possibly restrict that - I'd love to see the tournament regain it's previous importance in terms of recognition.....still mickey mouse compared to the scottish cup though.

[Fat Striker]

'Mickey Mouse' cup or not I'd still love to see Hearts win it.

 

My big problem with it is the huge delay between the quarter-final and the semi-final. It was MUCH better when they contested the final in November.

[rudi must stay]

it's fine by me. It's a chance for a team outside the OF to win something for a change

[Therapist]

Scrap it. It's a diddy trophy and an unwelcome distraction from proper football competitions.

[Dazo]

I like it and am glad we have a game at Tynecastle. Its a chance for the real fans to watch game without the glory hunters.

[Munch]

I?m going tomorrow night but the only reason I?m going is to see the team, the new players. Is Tullberg any good ? Is the new keeper better than the others ? Will Csaba play 2 up front ? Will they continue with the passing game ? All interesting stuff.

 

But I really can?t get excited about the competition. If we get put out in a future away game I won?t be gutted in the same way I would if it was the Cup.

 

Which leads to the question: what is the CIS Cup for ? It?s silverware I suppose but so was the East of Scotland Shield. The OF ? and others - often play under strength teams and the last time Hibs won the league cup we all pished ourselves laughing at them with their ?diddy cup?.

 

In my view, the SFA should elevate the standing of the competition by reintroducing the mini league format and giving a Euro place to the winner. Either that or scrap the competition altogether as it is just a distraction in its current form.

 

its a non event bin it.

[Munch]

it's fine by me. It's a chance for a team outside the OF to win something for a change

 

Win what a meaningless tin cup, na its a non event.

[Marmeladent?rtchen]

I hate to be a crapper 'davieholt' but it looks like your trip will be wasted as Tullburg is not even playing!!! :-/

 

 

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1375777,00.html

 

[davieholt]

I hate to be a crapper 'davieholt' but it looks like your trip will be wasted as Tullburg is not even playing!!! :-/

 

 

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1375777,00.html

 

 

Bugger

[davemclaren]

surely any major trophy is only worth winning when all the competitors really want to lift it?

 

Didn't Man Utd withdraw from the fa cup one season?

 

CIS is a worthwhile trophy imo. Never seen Hearts win it...yet.

[chimpos]

It's the co-op cup

[Francis Albert]

After 107 years Hibs getting horsed in the big cup has surely lost some of it's shine. In the wee cup, however ...

 

Surely the clincher - the CIS/League Cup must stay.

[joe1874]

why scrap it hibs are out

[Morry]

 

I wasn't around at the time of the Texaco cup however I believe it was split up into regional leagues first? So we would likely play the East of Scotland Shield to qualify - that would bring an extra tasty derby every season which would come with bragging rights and a trophy? Not to mention the glamour ties that could possibly await you in the knock-out sages or the money it would generate from south of the border?

 

It's a winner!!! The FA's aren't interested though

 

You only have to see how many hearts fans went through to semi final against rangers in the CIS compared to how many went against Hibs or Celtic in the Scottish semi to see how little the trophy means. Mind you when you look how many hobos turned up for the semi of the scottish and how many turned up when they got pumped off Livi in the final of the CIS....it kinda blows my point and my head?! lol

[Jam Tarts 1874]

 

I wasn't around at the time of the Texaco cup however I believe it was split up into regional leagues first? So we would likely play the East of Scotland Shield to qualify - that would bring an extra tasty derby every season which would come with bragging rights and a trophy? Not to mention the glamour ties that could possibly await you in the knock-out sages or the money it would generate from south of the border?

 

It's a winner!!! The FA's aren't interested though

 

 

This and the Anglo-Scottish cup died a death because the bigger clubs didn't want anything to do with it. Can't see it ever coming back, we should be aiming to play UEFA or CL Group stage games anyway.

[davieholt]

 

I wasn't around at the time of the Texaco cup however I believe it was split up into regional leagues first? So we would likely play the East of Scotland Shield to qualify - that would bring an extra tasty derby every season which would come with bragging rights and a trophy? Not to mention the glamour ties that could possibly await you in the knock-out sages or the money it would generate from south of the border?

 

It's a winner!!! The FA's aren't interested though

 

I enjoyed the Texaco Cup. Some memorable games . . Burnley at Tynie was one.

 

Anyhoo, after last night I retract the suggestion that the CIS be scrapped.

[269miles]

The issue with the unattractiveness of the league Cup in England has diminished recently due to the fact that Man U and Chelsea are gonna monopolise the league for years to come. Consequently every other club outside the top 4 realise it's one of only two chances to win something.

 

Man U aside every other club is fielding a decent strength side.

 

Unfortuantely not a situation that will ever apply in Scotland due to the OF duopoloy. However everyone seems to have forgotten that , OF aside , it is a good competition. The tie is decided on the night. It's a great chance for any minnows to play well and win the tie (how often does this happen in the Scottish cup where a team plays well , doesn't win and then gets spanked in the replay).

 

So there's no Euro spot available ? It doesn't devalue the factv that there is a bit of silverware to be won. And as other have previously pointed out , it's not as though HMFC have won much in the last 40 years.

 

It would be great to start the season with a knock out cup competition. No excuses from teams being rusty. But please , no more leagues. Get vthe final played in October.