savage Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 something needs to be done regarding ticket touts. personally i would return to selling tickets at a box office like we used to do at the playhouse. i remember standing waiting in queues for Iron Maiden, Slayer and the likes and don't remember many people outside trying to flog tickets. either that or you must produce id which matches your ticket at the gate when you enter. i have just looked at e-bay and a rough calculation estimate a minimum of 3000 tickets available at ridiculously over inflated prices. it makes me sick especially as a lot will end up not being sold as people are getting fed up with paying for them now. i have only done it once at the foo fighters last year at the secc. i paid 50 quid for one which was not that much over the face value but the guy had about twenty available. he probably did not get rid of them all therefore many genuine fans do not get tickets to see the bands they want to rant over and yes i tried to get tickets but will not pay for touted ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Simple economics - supply and demand. They perform a valuable service. I have bought tickets from touts and touted quite a few in my time, so have no problem with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helzibob Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 something needs to be done regarding ticket touts. personally i would return to selling tickets at a box office like we used to do at the playhouse. i remember standing waiting in queues for Iron Maiden, Slayer and the likes and don't remember many people outside trying to flog tickets. either that or you must produce id which matches your ticket at the gate when you enter. i have just looked at e-bay and a rough calculation estimate a minimum of 3000 tickets available at ridiculously over inflated prices. it makes me sick especially as a lot will end up not being sold as people are getting fed up with paying for them now. i have only done it once at the foo fighters last year at the secc. i paid 50 quid for one which was not that much over the face value but the guy had about twenty available. he probably did not get rid of them all therefore many genuine fans do not get tickets to see the bands they want to rant over and yes i tried to get tickets but will not pay for touted ones Or for festivals they should all go down the glasto route. You need to register and pictures on tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I don't like them either. Leeches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo121 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Theres more than 200 sets of tickets for Oasis in Aberdeen on Ebay at the moment, its really poor tbh. Glastonbury got it right, something simillar needs to happen for high profile gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage Posted August 20, 2008 Author Share Posted August 20, 2008 therapist, i might have known i would get a ridiculous reply like that from someone. what precious service do they supply. they buy tickets at face value and then basically rob three or four times that to sell them to some fan who is desperate to see them. if he had left them the **** alone in the first place the fan would have been able to purchase a ticket for the face value price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal_ Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 therapist, i might have known i would get a ridiculous reply like that from someone. what precious service do they supply. they buy tickets at face value and then basically rob three or four times that to sell them to some fan who is desperate to see them. if he had left them the **** alone in the first place the fan would have been able to purchase a ticket for the face value price. Its their risk, they may not be able to sell the tickets. Surely ebay could just ban the selling of tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 what precious service do they supply. Many many events have fewer tickets than the number of people who want to see it. Consequently some/many committed fans will miss out as there is never a one-to-one relationship between demand and supply. Touts fill this gap. One just has to pay a bit more. I usually get tickets for attractive events just by being quick off the mark and having multiple phones set to redial. I always buy more than I need and punt the extras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I always buy more than I need and punt the extras. Here's a thought, how about not doing that meaning there are more tickets for other fan's. Why should tout's make a profit from someone desperate to go who wasn't fortunate to have loads of phones or the Internet? Tout's = ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Here's a thought, how about not doing that meaning there are more tickets for other fan's. Why should tout's make a profit from someone desperate to go who wasn't fortunate to have loads of phones or the Internet? I take your point, but as far as I'm concerned it's swings and roundabouts. If I punt a few extra tickets at above face value, it means I don't whine if I pay over the odds to a tout for a brief I'm desperate for. It's rare I have to use a tout. My experience is that you can always get a ticket at face value if you really want one. I even had the opportunity to get Led Zep tickets at face value for the O2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troonjambo Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 therapist, i might have known i would get a ridiculous reply like that from someone. what precious service do they supply. they buy tickets at face value and then basically rob three or four times that to sell them to some fan who is desperate to see them. if he had left them the **** alone in the first place the fan would have been able to purchase a ticket for the face value price. depends mate i have bought a few tickets at under face value from touts radiohead at the green and tinthe park at the door (happened a awful lot at this years ) i also have seen **** i have been desperate to see(and payed plenty for the privilege) thanks to touts i used to use a lassy on ebay who was the monkeys nuts never let me down so i have no problem with them that been said the speed or lack of it that tinthepark early bird tickets went for this year may prove a correlation between touts generating the demand that gets in your way because i bet they an,t to bothered about the event after the financial kicking they took at this years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I take your point, but as far as I'm concerned it's swings and roundabouts. If I punt a few extra tickets at above face value, it means I don't whine if I pay over the odds to a tout for a brief I'm desperate for. It's rare I have to use a tout. My experience is that you can always get a ticket at face value if you really want one. I even had the opportunity to get Led Zep tickets at face value for the O2! Sure, none of that makes it right or fair though does it. Tout's do pretty much what the official ticket outlet's do but only dearer. There is no way to justify It, the law need's changed IMO. They are out to fleece people, no other reason. I'm glad you've been stung by a tout yourself, at least you'll understand the frustration, seeing ?25 tickets selling out quick before appearing on eBay for more 5 minutes later. If none of these bawbag tout's got In the way then everyone would pay the fair price and there would be no arguements, first In first out, end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tane Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Simple economics - supply and demand. They perform a valuable service. I have bought tickets from touts and touted quite a few in my time, so have no problem with them. For me, "supply and demand" doesn't apply when it comes to ticket touts. There is a demand, and tickets to supply. Touts simply pick up this supply and stick their own sky high prices on it to people who could have got it through proper channels if the touts hadn't got there first for their own greedy needs. It's a shame that there's no watertight way to regulate it. I remember there was a show in Edinburgh recently at the Playhouse where people were warned they'd be refused entry if they could not produce photo ID that matched the name printed on the ticket. Whilst it's a good idea. There are genuine people who do exchange tickets with people for face value rather than choosing to make a profit. Outside of the ticket stuff... It p***es me off every Christmas when some ***** buy the "must have" gift of the year then stick it on eBay for double, triple or quadruple the RRP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 the law need's changed IMO So basically, you're suggesting that nothing should be sold at a greater price than its initial market value. Bit of a scunner for the housing market then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Harris Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 hasn't this been done to death previously simple supply and demand applies I'm afraid there will always be a market for sold out events Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Macaroons Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 ticket touts are handy they have tickets for things I want to go to and buy spares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Whittaker's Tache Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 You don't have to buy off them. Just keep your money in your pocket and stay at home. Personally I think if you've got the cash and your happy to part with it then, it's a free world Use them myself now and again if I've missed the boat on gigs. Saw the Pixies at Brixton Academy a few years ago and again at Meadowbank with tickets from Fleabay. First one I paid over the odds, Second one I paid just a couple of quid as the gig was never going to sell out. Just got tickets to see Glasvegas, paid over the odds, but otherwise I wouldn't be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindy Badgy Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 It's a double edged sword. I paid 14 times face value for a ticket for one event at the Beijing Olympics (still not that much by UK standards). It hurt like hell giving my money to some tosser that had a bundle of them in his pocket but it was a hell of a lot better than sitting outside the venue wishing I was inside. When you consider how far I'd traveled not getting in would of been a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CostaJambo Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I take your point, but as far as I'm concerned it's swings and roundabouts. If I punt a few extra tickets at above face value, it means I don't whine if I pay over the odds to a tout for a brief I'm desperate for. It's rare I have to use a tout. My experience is that you can always get a ticket at face value if you really want one. I even had the opportunity to get Led Zep tickets at face value for the O2! Sunday Mail calls "tickets" "briefs" too. Hate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I actually agree with 1620 on this one. Its pretty much the housing market in microcosm, buy something in demand and sell it on for a large profit. Its a lucrative but not entirely without risk. Don't hate the player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 , first In first out, end of. I can see the point your making mate, however if the person planning to tout the tickets on is one of the "first come, first served" brigade, then surely if he's paid the going rate that the seller asks for that ticket, then it's his to do freely what he wants with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Simple economics - supply and demand. They perform a valuable service. I have bought tickets from touts and touted quite a few in my time, so have no problem with them. its not supply & demand tho. that is met by the original ticket sale process to which everyone has a fair shot. by overbuying for the purposes of touting you're taking away the chance for people to buy in the first place - then stinging them with an over-inflated price into the bargain if they're desperate enough to pay. you could argue that its capitalism at its best, but morally its a bag of ****e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Nobody Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 It's a double edged sword. I paid 14 times face value for a ticket for one event at the Beijing Olympics (still not that much by UK standards). It hurt like hell giving my money to some tosser that had a bundle of them in his pocket but it was a hell of a lot better than sitting outside the venue wishing I was inside. When you consider how far I'd traveled not getting in would of been a disaster. Should have just kicked **** out of him and taken how many you wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 So basically, you're suggesting that nothing should be sold at a greater price than its initial market value. Bit of a scunner for the housing market then.... Where did you get that from? Are we not discussing tickets here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I can see the point your making mate, however if the person planning to tout the tickets on is one of the "first come, first served" brigade, then surely if he's paid the going rate that the seller asks for that ticket, then it's his to do freely what he wants with it. Not with tickets though. The terms on the back state that tickets should not be resold, It obviously happens but technically It shouldn't and certainly not more than the actual price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tane Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 So basically, you're suggesting that nothing should be sold at a greater price than its initial market value. Bit of a scunner for the housing market then.... Difference being that tickets are a short term possession and don't go up in value with the economy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 therapist, i might have known i would get a ridiculous reply like that from someone. what precious service do they supply. they buy tickets at face value and then basically rob three or four times that to sell them to some fan who is desperate to see them. if he had left them the **** alone in the first place the fan would have been able to purchase a ticket for the face value price. You don't have to buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgiegirl Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 something needs to be done regarding ticket touts. personally i would return to selling tickets at a box office like we used to do at the playhouse. i remember standing waiting in queues for Iron Maiden, Slayer and the likes and don't remember many people outside trying to flog tickets. either that or you must produce id which matches your ticket at the gate when you enter. i have just looked at e-bay and a rough calculation estimate a minimum of 3000 tickets available at ridiculously over inflated prices. it makes me sick especially as a lot will end up not being sold as people are getting fed up with paying for them now. i have only done it once at the foo fighters last year at the secc. i paid 50 quid for one which was not that much over the face value but the guy had about twenty available. he probably did not get rid of them all therefore many genuine fans do not get tickets to see the bands they want to rant over and yes i tried to get tickets but will not pay for touted ones out of interest, what did you try to get tickets for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 out of interest, what did you try to get tickets for? Like a few on here, I've had mixed results with touts. Saw Radiohead a couple of months back for a tenner, which was nice! However, my real anger is reserved for the booking agencies (primarily Ticketmaster) who use their monopoly to charge obscene prices for booking and postage of tickets, money which should really be going to the artists. They're basically the old firm of the music industry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Tom Waits had the right idea. Draconian anti-tout arrangements - plus auction 50 for charity, late in the day, for those who desperately want to go, missed the sale, and don't mind paying top whack, to a good cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Agree with other anti-tout opinions above. Have posted my opinion on similar threads here and e-festivals.co.uk in the past. Basically the touts are cutting out the punters from going to the gigs they want at face value by taking a substantial proportion of the tickets and auctioning them straight away. Their motive is greed - to make easy money because they have squeezed the punters out for the legitimate sale. Fortunately T in the Park this year released a continual stream of tickets in the 4 months leading up to the event, meaning the touts made a loss in general. I have said before that I would like the government to treat music and event tickets in general in the same way as football tickets, where the threat of tickets going to the wrong fans prevents auctions. The real problem here is the Labour government - they don't want to do anything about it. Clearly someone is greasing someones palms to keep this practice from being legislated against. If we can't get the government to do something I would like Photo ID being mandatory for sell-out gigs to prove you were the person that bought the ticket, plus the facility for a full refund for anyone that can't make an event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 if the system is fair, then shouldnt touts be taxed on their earnings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deodato Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I can speak on this subject with a fair degree of authority. Firstly, for those interested in this area, there's a legendary paper by Kruegar and Connoly titled Rockonomics that's a vaiuable read: http://www.irs.princeton.edu/pubs/pdfs/499.pdf Secondly, the supply-demand argument is a good opener, but it meets the word 'cartel' head on. Those who think like 'its just the market' must accept the market imperfections. And then where next? Third, sometimes you do indeed win. Touts were selling Glasto tickets at ?10 a pop as the festival had not sold out - and there's numerous examples of touts selling below face value this year. "Too many festivals" they whinge. Kinda like the housing stock problem - once you go over the line, the market collapses. Fourth, it will not be a suprise to most of you that, whilst promoters complain about touts, the live music sector is riddled with back handers. So, O2 arena sells 90% of its tickets through Ticketmaster, then holds back 10% and kicks them back to Viagogo who sell the remainder at a scarcity premium as the show has 'apparently' sold out - of which they kick back to the venue who kick back to the band and everyone is happy. Good economics, I say - but a little hard to justify to your 'loyal fans' - the word loyal needs some pause for thought. What about trust, huh? An interesting company to watch out for, on this topic, is: http://www.tixdaq.com Good thread folks, a classic one for economists and the like to discuss - watch for the primary market to soak up (or capture) those secondary market rents in the future, EasyJet pricing is the only way to go, I think. Deodato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Bought and sold plenty of tickets over the years at inflated prices and don't see the problem with it. If you want tickets for highly sought after events then your going to have to make that extra effort to make sure you get them when they go on sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Outsied my flat in Earls Court (on a tout route 2 mins from the arena)a few years back i found 4 tickets for Duran Duran. a couple were for different parts of the arena and they had different creases from being folded different ways at some point. So I'm certain they belonged to a tout. I hung around outside the arena and sold them at face value for ?120 for the lot. A tout went off his napper at he. He told me that the next time he would pull my ears down and tie the under my chin! Also, at A Fleetwood Mac concert in the same venue my mate approached one but wasn't bowled over by his prices so after about 5 mins of considering and bargaining he didnt buy them so the tout slapped my mate for wasting his time! Sub-human ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Bought and sold plenty of tickets over the years at inflated prices and don't see the problem with it. If you want tickets for highly sought after events then your going to have to make that extra effort to make sure you get them when they go on sale. Sometimes thats just not possible though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Sometimes thats just not possible though It's always possible if you want it enough. A bit of forethought and planning is all it needs. And if you're sure demand will far exceed supply, buy a couple of extras, punt them on and that'll easily pay for the whole night out. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Sometimes thats just not possible though Then surely as the saying says tough ****. If its not possible for you to get tickets then you miss out or you bite the bullet and pay over the odds. I think its all about the individual perceived value for money. No one wants to pay inflated prices but most of us would if we still felt it was value for money. The touts provide a service whether any of us like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Then surely as the saying says tough ****. If its not possible for you to get tickets then you miss out or you bite the bullet and pay over the odds. I think its all about the individual perceived value for money. No one wants to pay inflated prices but most of us would if we still felt it was value for money. The touts provide a service whether any of us like it or not. but a tout could just get lucky and get their hands on tickets when i cant? how is that doing anyone a service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tane Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 The touts provide a service whether any of us like it or not. A service? That's laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Jambo 60 Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Simple economics - supply and demand. They perform a valuable service. I have bought tickets from touts and touted quite a few in my time, so have no problem with them. Talking mince a tic is priced and that price should be paid. TOUTS are **** and should be put down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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