Why is playing at home considered such an advantage?

[shaun.lawson]

Here's a debating point, chaps. The match report on the Hearts website said "at Ibrox, you have to be prepared to put up with long periods without the ball", so I got to thinking: why? Of course, we all know about the impact of referees against either of the gruesomes, but still - why is it that away from home, and especially when playing in a big stadium, football teams everywhere invariably end up on the back foot?

 

Is it psychological? Can a hostile home support really make such a difference, especially in an arena like Parkhead or Ibrox where the locals generally expect a routine three points anyway? Ultimately, it's just eleven v eleven (or, in the case of the OF, fourteen v eleven) on a patch of grass - so how come playing away is always deemed so much more difficult than on your home patch?

[Ryan Gosling]

Different size of pitch, home players more familiar with patches of grass that might run differently, supporters being hostile to away players, importance of the result.

[shaun.lawson]

Different size of pitch, home players more familiar with patches of grass that might run differently, supporters being hostile to away players, importance of the result.

 

That can't make that much of a difference, surely? Especially in the SPL, where it's all played at 200mph anyway!

[john brownlee]

Shaun I think you have answered you own question

[Dr. Bapswent]

It may have a small advantage, but any such advantage can easily be made redundant by the larger advantage of having a referee who is on your side.

 

Home advantage means nothing against teams like the OF, as they have the ref with them.

 

In the SPL, all teams will perform better against each other, than compared to the OF, who have the advantage, either home or away.

 

This means such an advantage in the SPL is diluted.

 

 

 

Also on a serious note.

 

I recall that its proven that you perform better when you utilize knowledge in the same surroundings/circumstances as when you learnt it.

 

Therefore, although we train at Riccarton...we are more familiar with the ground, and do some work their, it gives a slight advantage (theoretically).

 

Maybe we should play our competitive games at Riccarton?

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun I think you have answered you own question

 

Yeah - but if you think about it, officials are equally biased towards the OF in their away games too. I don't think refereeing bias can explain a universal, worldwide phenomenon.

[rudi must stay]

Here's a debating point, chaps. The match report on the Hearts website said "at Ibrox, you have to be prepared to put up with long periods without the ball", so I got to thinking: why? Of course, we all know about the impact of referees against either of the gruesomes, but still - why is it that away from home, and especially when playing in a big stadium, football teams everywhere invariably end up on the back foot?

 

Is it psychological? Can a hostile home support really make such a difference, especially in an arena like Parkhead or Ibrox where the locals generally expect a routine three points anyway? Ultimately, it's just eleven v eleven (or, in the case of the OF, fourteen v eleven) on a patch of grass - so how come playing away is always deemed so much more difficult than on your home patch?

 

all comes down to whether that team is on a winning run at that ground and usually the OF are which means they have a lot of confidence. That's why we were crap last season at home

[Ryan Gosling]

That can't make that much of a difference, surely? Especially in the SPL, where it's all played at 200mph anyway!

 

Say there's a patch in the corner where the ball REALLY slows, home team can lump it up there knowing it'll stick, while the away team don't chase it thinking it'll roll out.

 

Even if teams suss it out, they could be a goal down by that point.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Say there's a patch in the corner where the ball REALLY slows, home team can lump it up there knowing it'll stick, while the away team don't chase it thinking it'll roll out.

 

Even if teams suss it out, they could be a goal down by that point.

 

That would offer such a tiny area of influence, it would be virtually useless.

 

If this was really the case....you could have the groundstaff cut grass to specifications over the pitch, but that doesnt really happen, other than deciding on overall grass length.

[davemclaren]

It's mostly in the mind...I imagine.

[Spellczech]

It's a perception thing I think. A team playing at home feels the onus is on them to dictate the pace and push the game. Away teams naturally react to this by sitting in. It is like fencing - if one player attacks then the other has to defend himself. Only when the aggressor tires can the defender change defence to attack. This often happens in spells between 20-35 mins and 55-70 mins.

[Bordeaux 03]

Here's a debating point, chaps. The match report on the Hearts website said "at Ibrox, you have to be prepared to put up with long periods without the ball", so I got to thinking: why? Of course, we all know about the impact of referees against either of the gruesomes, but still - why is it that away from home, and especially when playing in a big stadium, football teams everywhere invariably end up on the back foot?

 

Is it psychological? Can a hostile home support really make such a difference, especially in an arena like Parkhead or Ibrox where the locals generally expect a routine three points anyway? Ultimately, it's just eleven v eleven (or, in the case of the OF, fourteen v eleven) on a patch of grass - so how come playing away is always deemed so much more difficult than on your home patch?

 

This is exactly the mentality Csaba is trying to install into our players. The crowd only gives a small advantage to a team, even still a a 4000 strong Hearts support away can be just as good as a 10000 home support. It just gives the players a feeling that they can win.

 

Anyone who hasn't seen the pre-match press conference before the Rangers game should watch it as has some quite interesting stuff from Csaba. He is trying to say to the players that they should hold no fear when playing the OF. There is really nothing that seperates the teams, we play with the same ball, the same pitch, the same rules (sort of ). I would even go to far as say that the majority of games won in the SPL are won due to hard work and team work, not really individual skill. I think this is what our players need to believe if we are to take the game to the OF. Maybe then we can make an impact.

[shaun.lawson]

It's a perception thing I think. A team playing at home feels the onus is on them to dictate the pace and push the game. Away teams naturally react to this by sitting in. It is like fencing - if one player attacks then the other has to defend himself. Only when the aggressor tires can the defender change defence to attack. This often happens in spells between 20-35 mins and 55-70 mins.

 

Mmm. Something else I've noticed is, even in a game between a top EPL and Championship team played at the EPL side's ground, you can usually count on the Championship side having at least a five minute spell of pressure, and one clear cut chance. I'm not sure why this is, but it seems to happen a lot: the key being, of course, for the lower-ranked side to convert that chance.

 

That said though, there have been teams over the years who were breathtakingly good away from home: Portsmouth last season, for example. Or going way back, Norwich in 93/4: our home form was embarrassing, but because we'd been set up to succeed in Europe, we won 3-2 at Blackburn, 4-0 at Leeds, 5-1 at Everton, 2-1 at Chelsea, 1-0 at Liverpool, and 2-1 in Munich, as well as outplaying Inter in the Guiseppe Meazza and holding Man Utd to a 2-2 draw in a marvellous game at Old Trafford.

 

So it can be done - and to be honest, what puzzles me is it doesn't happen more often. Because if the onus is on the home side to make the play, you'd expect a good deal of these sides to not be good enough, the crowd to get frustrated, and the visitors to take full advantage really.

[shaun.lawson]

Say there's a patch in the corner where the ball REALLY slows, home team can lump it up there knowing it'll stick, while the away team don't chase it thinking it'll roll out.

 

Even if teams suss it out, they could be a goal down by that point.

 

That'd be much more likely at lower ranked clubs with poor pitches though, wouldn't it? Or with the kind of slope Easter Road used to have? On a decent pitch, I'd have thought any such advantage would be virtually negligible - you may be right, though.

[Hearts Heritage]

Based on Scottish League tables from 1890

 

Here are the %s of Home Wins - Away Wins

 

 

 

hwdiff Total

-7 0.05%

-6 0.03%

-5 0.42%

-4 0.42%

-3 1.10%

-2 2.59%

-1 3.97%

 

8.58% of teams won less at home than away

 

0 7.84%

 

83.58% of teams won more at home than away

1 9.28%

2 11.92%

3 12.47%

4 12.37%

5 11.22%

6 8.81%

7 6.98%

8 4.92%

9 2.69%

10 1.62%

11 0.73%

12 0.31%

13 0.16%

14 0.08%

15 0.03%

[shaun.lawson]

It may have a small advantage, but any such advantage can easily be made redundant by the larger advantage of having a referee who is on your side.

 

Home advantage means nothing against teams like the OF, as they have the ref with them.

 

In the SPL, all teams will perform better against each other, than compared to the OF, who have the advantage, either home or away.

 

This means such an advantage in the SPL is diluted.

 

 

 

Also on a serious note.

 

I recall that its proven that you perform better when you utilize knowledge in the same surroundings/circumstances as when you learnt it.

Therefore, although we train at Riccarton...we are more familiar with the ground, and do some work their, it gives a slight advantage (theoretically).

 

Maybe we should play our competitive games at Riccarton?

 

 

Clive Woodward was widely ridiculed for employing a visual awareness coach, one Sherylle Calder, in the build-up to the 2003 World Cup. But maybe, just maybe, she made that tiny bit of difference enabling England to win it. Jake White certainly thought so: after Woodward quit, he employed her to do the same with the Springboks, and as a result, she is the only English person with two Rugby World Cup winners' medals.

[Ryan Gosling]

That'd be much more likely at lower ranked clubs with poor pitches though, wouldn't it? Or with the kind of slope Easter Road used to have? On a decent pitch, I'd have thought any such advantage would be virtually negligible - you may be right, though.

 

It would be. Possibly why you get so many cup upsets?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I actually think that's a cliche from the match report. I would say that Rangers had more possession, not having seen the stats, but I don't think we were starved of possession either.

[shaun.lawson]

Based on Scottish League tables from 1890

 

 

 

83.58% of teams won more at home than away

1 9.28%

2 11.92%

3 12.47%

4 12.37%

5 11.22%

6 8.81%

7 6.98%

8 4.92%

9 2.69%

10 1.62%

11 0.73%

12 0.31%

13 0.16%

14 0.08%

15 0.03%

 

Who are 1,2,3,4 and 5 in the above, Davy? Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs?

[Ryan Gosling]

Pitch size is a big factor too I think. Players like Driver get more room to run for passes but they have further to carry the ball etc.

[Hearts Heritage]

The 2 teams who won 7 more away were

 

1959-60 Rangers

1980-81 Arbroath

 

In

 

1926-27 East Fife

 

Won 17 at home with 1 draw and 1 loss

Away they had 2 Wins 2 draws and 15 losses

[shaun.lawson]

It would be. Possibly why you get so many cup upsets?

 

Yes - although I always think the lower ranked team is invariably more motivated for these games anyway. Psychologically, it's very, very difficult for an EPL or even SPL side to be as switched on when away to, say, Stenhousemuir rather than the OF. And in terms of poor pitches giving teams an advantage: it's not as though Motherwell's Cup record is anything to write home about, is it?

[Spellczech]

Mmm. Something else I've noticed is, even in a game between a top EPL and Championship team played at the EPL side's ground, you can usually count on the Championship side having at least a five minute spell of pressure, and one clear cut chance. I'm not sure why this is, but it seems to happen a lot: the key being, of course, for the lower-ranked side to convert that chance.

 

That said though, there have been teams over the years who were breathtakingly good away from home: Portsmouth last season, for example. Or going way back, Norwich in 93/4: our home form was embarrassing, but because we'd been set up to succeed in Europe, we won 3-2 at Blackburn, 4-0 at Leeds, 5-1 at Everton, 2-1 at Chelsea, 1-0 at Liverpool, and 2-1 in Munich, as well as outplaying Inter in the Guiseppe Meazza and holding Man Utd to a 2-2 draw in a marvellous game at Old Trafford.

 

So it can be done - and to be honest, what puzzles me is it doesn't happen more often. Because if the onus is on the home side to make the play, you'd expect a good deal of these sides to not be good enough, the crowd to get frustrated, and the visitors to take full advantage really.

 

Yep it could well be the way the team is set up too. I get frustratated at Hearts negativity in Glasgow - we always allow the OF to boss us and hope that we can nick a goal. I'd rather we did what we did when Robbo (who was never lauded as a tactical genius) had us doing and attack them at Ibrox and CP - occasionally teams do that and they hate it! Sure the teams that do, like Falkirk sometimes take a cuffing but at least they have a go. I hate that we always leave Glasgow bemonaing referees and how poorly we played rather than just the referees as it was in 2005!

[shaun.lawson]

The 2 teams who won 7 more away were

 

1959-60 Rangers

1980-81 Arbroath

 

In

 

1926-27 East Fife

 

Won 17 at home with 1 draw and 1 loss

Away they had 2 Wins 2 draws and 15 losses

 

Rangers, extraordinarily, ranked 14th at home and 1st away in 59/60; and East Fife, 1st at home and 19th (out of 20) away in the 26/7 2nd Division. Two other examples that spring to my mind are:

 

Norwich 01/2: Home: P23 W15 D6 L2 F36 A16 Pts 51 (2nd)

Away: P23 W7 D3 L13 F24 A35 Pts 24 (14th)

 

Ipswich 07/8: Home: P23 W15 D7 L1 F44 A14 Pts 52 (1st)

Away: P23 W3 D8 L12 F21 A42 Pts 17 (22nd)

 

Weird.

[shaun.lawson]

Yep it could well be the way the team is set up too. I get frustratated at Hearts negativity in Glasgow - we always allow the OF to boss us and hope that we can nick a goal. I'd rather we did what we did when Robbo (who was never lauded as a tactical genius) had us doing and attack them at Ibrox and CP - occasionally teams do that and they hate it! Sure the teams that do, like Falkirk sometimes take a cuffing but at least they have a go. I hate that we always leave Glasgow bemonaing referees and how poorly we played rather than just the referees as it was in 2005!

 

When we won 3-0 at Ibrox in Jan '96, was it just a case of us getting lucky by taking an early chance, forcing Rangers to come at us in search of an equaliser, and Allan Johnston having what is known in the States as a 'career game'? Or was our approach genuinely different to the way we normally set up?

 

Of course, JJ was hailed for his tactics at the '98 Cup Final, even though by going defensive, he arguably acted no differently to many other occasions when we were gubbed. The only aspect that was different was, well, we got lucky. And occasionally, when we have 'gone for it' in Glasgow, we've come a horrible cropper: a 6-1 savaging at Parkhead in November 2000 springs to mind.

[Ryan Gosling]

When we won 3-0 at Ibrox in Jan '96, was it just a case of us getting lucky by taking an early chance, forcing Rangers to come at us in search of an equaliser, and Allan Johnston having what is known in the States as a 'career game'? Or was our approach genuinely different to the way we normally set up?

 

Of course, JJ was hailed for his tactics at the '98 Cup Final, even though by going defensive, he arguably acted no differently to many other occasions when we were gubbed. The only aspect that was different was, well, we got lucky. And occasionally, when we have 'gone for it' in Glasgow, we've come a horrible cropper: a 6-1 savaging at Parkhead in November 2000 springs to mind.

 

The key to doing well at Ibrox and Parkhead is taking the lead early and/or keeping them at bay long enough for their fans to get frustrated.

 

We scored on 7 mins when Johnston scored his hat-trick, Rangers went for it and got caught on the counter attack twice. In the cup final, it's a one-off game, anything can happen but I don't know if we would have won ha we not gotten the penalty.

 

The last two games we've won at Celtic involved us keeping them at 0-0 until the hour mark, then attacking on the counter, surprising them and scoring 5.

[Hearts Heritage]

It would be. Possibly why you get so many cup upsets?

 

Statistically you get very few where teams play their best side and take the Cup seriously. However there is an increasing trend for 'Top Teams' to not treat the Cups as seriously especially the teams in the EPL who value staying in the EPL far more highly than any Cup.

 

There have been very few real upsets in the Scottish Cup if you compare teams league positions.

 

Out of over 8,000 Ties less than 50 'upsets' have been between teams with more than 15 places between them

 

3 that spring to mind are

 

Hearts losing to Dundee United in the 1930s

Rangers to Berwick Rangers

Celtic to Clyde

 

see

http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/cupshocks.html

[Flux]

how many games had family members on the pitch?

[shaun.lawson]

Statistically you get very few where teams play their best side and take the Cup seriously. However there is an increasing trend for 'Top Teams' to not treat the Cups as seriously especially the teams in the EPL who value staying in the EPL far more highly than any Cup.

 

There have been very few real upsets in the Scottish Cup if you compare teams league positions.

 

Out of over 8,000 Ties less than 50 have been between teams with more than 15 places between them

 

3 that spring to mind are

 

Hearts losing to Dundee United in the 1930s

Rangers to Berwick Rangers

Celtic to Clyde

 

see

http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/misc/cupshocks.html

 

As big an example of refereeing bias, incidentally, as I've ever seen. Clyde had three goals disallowed in the first half, and it was very nearly the scandal of the century. It's an interesting point, too, that Super Caley Go Ballistic Celtic Are Atrocious was not one of the big upsets you've mentioned.

 

You're right about the growing tendency of certain clubs not to treat either or both Cups seriously, of course. Which makes me all the more infuriated that Norwich haven't knocked out a club from a division above since 1995/6 - and even that was only 20th placed Bolton on penalties. Betting experts, though, say that in England, when a team is drawn away to a side from a division below, the most common result is a draw: before the higher-ranked side asserts itself in an FA Cup replay, or we head to the lottery of penalties in the League Cup.

[rumbles1874]

hate to say it but afew years back hibs went to ibrox 3 time and beat the 3 times due to keeping the ball after scoring and not leting them get back in the game but if you have 4000 fans cheering you on you are less likey to reacted as well as if you have 13000 but the same works the other way if your hgetting beat and you have 4000 fans getting on your back you are going to be down but if you have 13000 or in the OF cause 40000 getting on you back its worse cause you hear more of the noise so the idea is keep them at bay and hope that there fans get on there backs sooner rather than later

 

(also scoring might help)

[Hearts Heritage]

As big an example of refereeing bias, incidentally, as I've ever seen. Clyde had three goals disallowed in the first half, and it was very nearly the scandal of the century. It's an interesting point, too, that Super Caley Go Ballistic Celtic Are Atrocious was not one of the big upsets you've mentioned.

 

....

 

You could argue that Celtic and Rangers losing to any team other than each other in the Cup is an upset. However here are ones involving the OF losing to 'far lesser' sides or getting Horsed

 

Rangers 3-Arbroath 4 15/11/1884

Rangers 0-Cambuslang 2 23/10/1886

Rangers 0-Clyde 3 29/9/1888

St Bernards 3-Rangers 2 21/1/1893

Arthurlie 4-Celtic 2 9/1/1897

Port Glasgow Athletic 1-Rangers 0 10/3/1906

Clyde 3-Celtic 1 12/3/1910

Rangers 1-Falkirk 3 22/2/1913

Albion Rovers 2-Rangers 0 7/4/1920

Celtic 1-Hamilton Accies 3 25/2/1922

Morton 1-Rangers 0 15/4/1922

Ayr United 2-Rangers 0 27/1/1923

Kilmarnock 2-Celtic 0 26/1/1924

St Mirren 1-Rangers 0 20/3/1926

St Mirren 2-Celtic 0 10/4/1926

Rangers 0-Falkirk 1 9/3/1927

Celtic 0-Kilmarnock 1 23/3/1929

Kilmarnock 2-Rangers 0 6/4/1929

Celtic 1-St Mirren 3 15/2/1930

Rangers 1-Dundee 2 31/1/1931

Celtic 1-St Johnstone 2 8/2/1936

Queen of the South 1-Rangers 0 30/1/1937

Rangers 3-Kilmarnock 4 2/4/1938

Rangers 1-Clyde 4 18/2/1939

Morton 1-Celtic 0 27/3/1948

Dundee United 4-Celtic 3 22/1/1949

Third Lanark 2-Celtic 1 4/2/1952

Aberdeen 6-Rangers 0 10/4/1954 S

Heart of Midlothian 4-Rangers 0 3/3/1956

St Mirren 4-Celtic 0 4/4/1959

Rangers 2-Motherwell 5 1/3/1961

St Mirren 3-Celtic 1 31/3/1962

Hibernian 2-Rangers 1 6/3/1965

Rangers 0-Dundee 3 17/2/1974

Rangers 2-Dundee 3 17/3/1984

Rangers 0-Dundee 1 16/2/1985

Rangers 0-Hamilton Accies 1 31/1/1987

Dunfermline Athletic 2-Rangers 0 20/2/1988

Motherwell 4-Celtic 2 9/4/1991

Falkirk 2-Celtic 0 6/2/1993

Falkirk 1-Celtic 0 23/4/1997

Celtic 1-Inverness Caledonian Thistle 3 8/2/2000

Inverness Caledonian Thistle 1-Celtic 0 23/3/2003

Clyde 2-Celtic 1 8/1/2006

[belly]

It doesn't give the much advantage when playing us!:107years:

[Hearts Heritage]

It doesn't give the much advantage when playing us!:107years:

 

Apart from the last 10 seasons....

[shaun.lawson]

You could argue that Celtic and Rangers losing to any team other than each other in the Cup is an upset. However here are ones involving the OF losing to 'far lesser' sides or getting Horsed

 

Rangers 3-Arbroath 4 15/11/1884

Rangers 0-Cambuslang 2 23/10/1886

Rangers 0-Clyde 3 29/9/1888

St Bernards 3-Rangers 2 21/1/1893

Arthurlie 4-Celtic 2 9/1/1897

Port Glasgow Athletic 1-Rangers 0 10/3/1906

Clyde 3-Celtic 1 12/3/1910

Rangers 1-Falkirk 3 22/2/1913

Albion Rovers 2-Rangers 0 7/4/1920

Celtic 1-Hamilton Accies 3 25/2/1922

Morton 1-Rangers 0 15/4/1922

Ayr United 2-Rangers 0 27/1/1923

Kilmarnock 2-Celtic 0 26/1/1924

St Mirren 1-Rangers 0 20/3/1926

St Mirren 2-Celtic 0 10/4/1926

Rangers 0-Falkirk 1 9/3/1927

Celtic 0-Kilmarnock 1 23/3/1929

Kilmarnock 2-Rangers 0 6/4/1929

Celtic 1-St Mirren 3 15/2/1930

Rangers 1-Dundee 2 31/1/1931

Celtic 1-St Johnstone 2 8/2/1936

Queen of the South 1-Rangers 0 30/1/1937

Rangers 3-Kilmarnock 4 2/4/1938

Rangers 1-Clyde 4 18/2/1939

Morton 1-Celtic 0 27/3/1948

Dundee United 4-Celtic 3 22/1/1949

Third Lanark 2-Celtic 1 4/2/1952

Aberdeen 6-Rangers 0 10/4/1954 S

Heart of Midlothian 4-Rangers 0 3/3/1956

St Mirren 4-Celtic 0 4/4/1959

Rangers 2-Motherwell 5 1/3/1961

St Mirren 3-Celtic 1 31/3/1962

Hibernian 2-Rangers 1 6/3/1965

Rangers 0-Dundee 3 17/2/1974

Rangers 2-Dundee 3 17/3/1984

Rangers 0-Dundee 1 16/2/1985

Rangers 0-Hamilton Accies 1 31/1/1987

Dunfermline Athletic 2-Rangers 0 20/2/1988

Motherwell 4-Celtic 2 9/4/1991

Falkirk 2-Celtic 0 6/2/1993

Falkirk 1-Celtic 0 23/4/1997

Celtic 1-Inverness Caledonian Thistle 3 8/2/2000

Inverness Caledonian Thistle 1-Celtic 0 23/3/2003

Clyde 2-Celtic 1 8/1/2006

 

Of course, if only you'd included the League Cup, I could point to Plastic Whistle's gubbing of Celtic in the final! In terms of the calibre of that Celtic side, that must be right up there as far as historic upsets go.

 

Though here's an alarming stat. While the Premier Division became increasingly monotonous during the 1990s, the Cup at least was won by Aberdeen, Motherwell, Dundee United, Kilmarnock and Hearts. But the last side to come up against either half of the OF and win either Cup or League Cup Final was us: eleven long seasons ago.

[Hearts Heritage]

Of course, if only you'd included the League Cup, I could point to Plastic Whistle's gubbing of Celtic in the final! In terms of the calibre of that Celtic side, that must be right up there as far as historic upsets go.

 

 

League Cup

 

 

Celtic 1-4 Motherwell 16/9/1950

Partick Thistle 4-1 Celtic 23/10/1971

Aberdeen 5-1 Rangers 27/10/1976

Celtic 0-3 Dundee United 19/11/1980

Celtic 1-3 St Mirren 8/8/1981

Rangers 1-2 Falkirk 31/8/1994

Airdrieonians 1-0 Celtic 19/8/1998

Rangers 0-2 St Johnstone 8/11/2006

[Ryan Gosling]

Don't forget the 1994 Coca Cola Cup Final.

[shaun.lawson]

Don't forget the 1994 Coca Cola Cup Final.

 

Whoop whoop! I loved that - and even more that Raith made the most of their UEFA Cup adventure too. The half-time score: Bayern Munich 0 Raith Rovers 1. Brilliant!

[269miles]

Here's a debating point, chaps. The match report on the Hearts website said "at Ibrox, you have to be prepared to put up with long periods without the ball", so I got to thinking: why? Of course, we all know about the impact of referees against either of the gruesomes, but still - why is it that away from home, and especially when playing in a big stadium, football teams everywhere invariably end up on the back foot?

 

Is it psychological? Can a hostile home support really make such a difference, especially in an arena like Parkhead or Ibrox where the locals generally expect a routine three points anyway? Ultimately, it's just eleven v eleven (or, in the case of the OF, fourteen v eleven) on a patch of grass - so how come playing away is always deemed so much more difficult than on your home patch?

 

As per the thread title.

 

If playing at home is not an advantage , how come Hearts regularly went a year or more at Tynie without losing a game but still didn't win hee haw ?

[shaun.lawson]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WDr72N9TE

 

 

And a lot easier to enjoy now, rather than at the time, when I was just jealous that yet another small club (St Mirren, Motherwell, Kilmarnock etc) had got their mitts on a trophy while our wait went on and on...

[shaun.lawson]

As per the thread title.

 

If playing at home is not an advantage , how come Hearts regularly went a year or more at Tynie without losing a game but still didn't win hee haw ?

 

Because most sides have good records at home anyway - so a few points here or there makes little difference. Hence the OP, really: how come most sides are solid at home?

[mac]

It may have a small advantage, but any such advantage can easily be made redundant by the larger advantage of having a referee who is on your side.

 

Home advantage means nothing against teams like the OF, as they have the ref with them.

 

In the SPL, all teams will perform better against each other, than compared to the OF, who have the advantage, either home or away.

 

This means such an advantage in the SPL is diluted.

 

 

 

Also on a serious note.

 

I recall that its proven that you perform better when you utilize knowledge in the same surroundings/circumstances as when you learnt it.

 

Therefore, although we train at Riccarton...we are more familiar with the ground, and do some work their, it gives a slight advantage (theoretically).

 

Maybe we should play our competitive games at Riccarton?

 

 

 

Dr. B, the first part is serious!!

 

Compare the ref's decisons in Euro competions, versus Scotland's - the country of Scotland has given so much to the world yet we are unable to fairly officiate a game in our own country!

 

My mind is in a complete state of bogglement, right now...

[Charlie-Brown]

I would say confidence & expectation play a big part in it - even when I played youth & amatuer football teams expected to do better or at least had more confidence playing at home than away.

 

In a professional sense the home team has familiarity with surroundings, a regular home match routine, support of the majority of the crowd etc....these things give teams and players greater confidence - teams play at home once a fortnight - they might only play at any given away venue once every 3 months.

 

Obviously the ability & form of teams has a huge bearing on the result but the psychological factors can & will have some bearing on teams approach, performance & result.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Dr. B, the first part is serious!!

 

Compare the ref's decisons in Euro competions, versus Scotland's - the country of Scotland has given so much to the world yet we are unable to fairly officiate a game in our own country!

 

My mind is in a complete state of bogglement, right now...

 

Yes its serious.

 

But I didnt want it to be the only focus of my post and turn the thread into another debate about the SFA.

[spacerjoe]

2-1 in Munich

 

Do you start this thread just so that you could write that.

 

I think its as simple as tradition really.

 

For example, what is a worse result for you:

Hearts 1 - 3 Dundee Utd

Dundee Utd 3 - 1 Hearts

 

I'm guessing for most people, it would be the home result. Its EXPECTED now that we should win at home, or at least be the better team. With this in everyone's mind it affects everything - player motivation, tactics, etc.

[leginten]

Possibly slightly tangential to the thread, but to what extent is the OF's almost total dominance of the Scottish game related to the location of our national stadium and venue for all domestic cup finals? Success breeds success, the rich get richer and if playing finals in their home city gives the OF any kind of advantage over teams from outside Glasgow - which I think it does - then the significance is huge.

If a national stadium had been built anywhere else - let's say Stirling, for example - would the history of Scottish club football be entirely different?

[Spellczech]

Possibly slightly tangential to the thread, but to what extent is the OF's almost total dominance of the Scottish game related to the location of our national stadium and venue for all domestic cup finals? Success breeds success, the rich get richer and if playing finals in their home city gives the OF any kind of advantage over teams from outside Glasgow - which I think it does - then the significance is huge.

If a national stadium had been built anywhere else - let's say Stirling, for example - would the history of Scottish club football be entirely different?

 

Indeed they even have an "end" each at the national stadium!!!How wrong is that?!