Eddie Smith was right!

[ToadKiller Dog]

According to spewen cameron ,Eddie Smith has said he got the celtic penalty spot on and was right to send the midden player off,So the red card stands.

GFA law unto themselves.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Never saw that coming.

[leginten]

According to spewen cameron ,Eddie Smith has said he got the celtic penalty spot on and was right to send the midden player off,So the red card stands.

GFA law unto themselves.

 

Surely not. If this is true, then he deserves to be relieved of his duties for the comment as much as for the decision.

 

Incidentally, can anyone clarify this business of Smith (and presumably other referees) accompanying the OF abroad, as confirmed on Sportscene last night. In what capacity exactly do they travel?

[7628mm]

According to spewen cameron ,Eddie Smith has said he got the celtic penalty spot on and was right to send the midden player off,So the red card stands.

GFA law unto themselves.

 

article from BBC here

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/st_mirren/7554548.stm

 

or

 

 

Haining case dismissed by referee

Will Haining challenges Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink

Haining was punished after his tussle with Vennegoor of Hesselink

 

St Mirren defender Will Haining has been denied the opportunity to appeal against the red card he was shown in Sunday's 1-0 defeat to Celtic.

 

Haining was dismissed following a challenge on Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink and Barry Robson netted from the resultant penalty kick.

 

St Mirren boss Gus MacPherson said: "Will feels it was an injustice."

 

However, referee Eddie Smith has reviewed the incident and is content with his original verdict.

 

Consequently, Haining will be banned for Saturday's home game with Kilmarnock.

 

"I have watched the incident from various angles and I can see how Eddie Smith made the decision from the view that he had," said MacPherson when launching a bid to contest the red card.

 

"But one view shows that Will Haining didn't foul Vennegoor of Hesselink.

 

"The Celtic player has a handful of Haining's shirt and he actually loses his balance."

 

MacPherson was unhappy with the performance of Smith, who he also criticised last season after the award of a free-kick at St Mirren Park that saw Shunsuke Nakamura firing in a late winner for Celtic.

 

MacPherson claimed the referee had winked at him on Sunday and questioned whether the gesture was aimed at irritating him.

 

Following the defeat at Celtic Park, MacPherson also suggested he had been singled out at the Scottish referees' annual conference.

 

The Buddies boss claimed he had been one of two managers whose faces were shown on a screen at one point.

 

However, the Scottish FA's head of referee development, Donald McVicar, was quick to deny the allegations.

 

"What Gus said was not true. Gus MacPherson was not even mentioned, nor was his face up on any screen," said McVicar.

 

"What we do is look at video clips and DVDs and look at the good, bad and ugly part of the game to see what we want to improve upon.

 

"One of the clips we used was of a tackle in a Scottish Cup game (between Rangers and Hibs) and how the two managers, Walter Smith and Mixu Paatelainen, had got involved as a result of that.

 

"We were looking at the repercussions of the tackle.

 

"We were not specifically looking at managers and that was the only time we talked about them - and Gus MacPherson wasn't one of them.

[ArmiyaRomanova]

In what capacity exactly do they travel?

 

Lickspittle.

[leginten]

"One of the clips we used was of a tackle in a Scottish Cup game (between Rangers and Hibs) and how the two managers, Walter Smith and Mixu Paatelainen, had got involved as a result of that."

 

That'll be the game in which Smith on at least one occasion strode aggressively into the Hibs technical area and remonstrated with Fattu.

Without any action being taken against him.

[Bootboy100]

What an absolute disgrace!!! Sadly nothing will happen to Smith as the SFA Mafia will back him!!!

[marshallschunkychicken]

Only in Scottish football could it be the case that the person who decides if a refereeing decision should be reviewed independently is the referee himself - with no power of veto if he decides he was right.

 

Talk about asking turkeys to vote for Christmas.

 

Disgraceful, embarassing, corrupt etc etc etc.....

[Guest jambomickey]

Only in Scottish football could it be the case that the person who decides if a refereeing decision should be reviewed independently is the referee himself - with no power of veto if he decides he was right.

 

Talk about asking turkeys to vote for Christmas.

 

Disgraceful, embarassing, corrupt etc etc etc.....

 

your spot on mate

[winston churchill]

anybody that sticks it up st.midden will always get my vote.

[Le Chat]

What a trumpet.

[Rick Grimes]

not in the least surprising but still a disgrace.

[poggs]

your spot on mate

 

For risk of getting another shoeing for going against the grain...

 

This is not the fault of the SFA. The rules of the game state that the referee is the sole arbiter of fact in a game of football. Thus if the useless fud says he was right, then there is nothing the SFA can do about it.

 

All that's happened in recent years is that the managers have been 'allowed' by the SFA to ask a referee to review their decisions. Which can result in the referee rescinding a red card.

 

In this case, Smith reviewed hos decision and unbelievably decided he was correct

[jambonian]

St Midden are cr ap enough on their own without having a dodgy referee helping one of the Bigott brothers gain 2 extra points they shouldn't have, it'll be very interesting to see how many decisions both of them get this season, my guess would be at least 10 points each, and that's probably a minimum number!

[alwaysthereinspirit]

anybody that sticks it up st.midden will always get my vote.

 

It's really not about St. Mirren. It's more about the level of inconsistency our weekly game officials reach at either Parkhead or Ibrox.

Or away games if the need arises.

[Pistol1874]

It's really not about St. Mirren. It's more about the level of inconsistency our weekly game officials reach at either Parkhead or Ibrox.

Or away games if the need arises.

At least they are consistent with it!

[H2]

There is a questions of negligence here, where St.Mirren and / or the could take the issue through the courts. Basically it perfectly feasible that the referee mad an honest mistake during the game, however quite how he saw contact through the bodies is a mystery, and if he can see through bodies then he must have seen the Celtic player holding the shirt of the St.Mirren player.

 

Then there is the question of review using video evidence where it seems that the vast majority of viewers are clear that the Celtic player committed the foul. Maybe the referee saw somthing nobody else has picked up, I wonder if he could share that with us and enhance our knowledge and interpretation of the Laws of Scottsih Football.

 

I am beginning to wonder that as paying customers could we take action against the football authorities, after all, all of us who watched on Setanta are paying customers for that game.

[Seymour M Hersh]

anybody that sticks it up st.midden will always get my vote.

 

There is a bigger picture to look at here JS. What institution should be allowed to police itself with such obvious and blatant disregard for public opinion? They have the larf of supplying a 4th official and a referees observer to each SPL game then allows the referee to look at the controversial he created to decided whether it was correct or not? Sorry but imo it is a total and utter disgrace.

[paulah]

He travelled with the old firm because he is a chief constable of the police,and has been in charge of games at Parkhead,Ibrox and Hampden

I dont think this should be allowed,he should do one job or the other

[Samster]

Only in Scottish football could it be the case that the person who decides if a refereeing decision should be reviewed independently is the referee himself - with no power of veto if he decides he was right.

 

Talk about asking turkeys to vote for Christmas.

 

Disgraceful, embarassing, corrupt etc etc etc.....

 

Just like the mafia perhaps?!

[gowestjambo]

St Midden are cr ap enough on their own without having a dodgy referee helping one of the Bigott brothers gain 2 extra points they shouldn't have, it'll be very interesting to see how many decisions both of them get this season, my guess would be at least 10 points each, and that's probably a minimum number!

 

The only refreshing time to watch either of the O/F is when they are in Europe (better once they are out actually), have you seen the look on their faces when they don't get their usual soft awards?

 

The times they encounter a level playing field, and a referee who isnt intimidated by them they usually lose, surely that tells us something?

[sjh1874]

A top brass policeman admit that he is wrong?

 

In his professional life and his sporting one this no mark thinks he is above the law and has nobody to answer to.

 

Deep down in that brick the idiot calls a heart he knows the real story of his "incompetence" and his denial. Shame on you Smith but someday people like you are called to account.

 

[john brownlee]

you see what we are forgetting is that this is part of her von castlemilks game. He pulls jerseys, elbows, fore arm smashes, kick an' hack and dives like an Olympic swimmer, so we should not be surprised he gets away with it I believe that he should have got at least three yellow cards against the midden for the above offences but of course he plays for one of the uglies to me he's as bad as gutsuso

[rudi]

The only refreshing time to watch either of the O/F is when they are in Europe (better once they are out actually), have you seen the look on their faces when they don't get their usual soft awards?

 

The times they encounter a level playing field, and a referee who isnt intimidated by them they usually lose, surely that tells us something?[/QUOTE]

 

Erm ,sorry to **** on your parade but,who got the season's first penalty given against them, and what was the final score?

[gowestjambo]

The only refreshing time to watch either of the O/F is when they are in Europe (better once they are out actually)' date=' have you seen the look on their faces when they don't get their usual soft awards?

 

[b']The times they encounter a level playing field, and a referee who isnt intimidated by them they usually lose, surely that tells us something?[/[/b]QUOTE]

 

Erm ,sorry to **** on your parade but,who got the season's first penalty given against them, and what was the final score?

 

I was referring to their performances in Europe when they dont get their usual share of dodgy decisions.......

 

Fancy a small wager who will get more penalties this season?

[rudi]

 

I was referring to their performances in Europe when they dont get their usual share of dodgy decisions.......

 

Fancy a small wager who will get more penalties this season?

 

Nope,and I'll tell you why,if past history has anything to go with then the OF have more shot's on/off goal than any other 2 teams put together,they get more chances in the box,have more possession so therefore will get more free kick's given against them.

 

Anyway instead of ripping into the refs why not just be glad that at least one of them has had a penalty awarded against them so early in the season.

 

PS for what it's worth(I know 2 wrongs dont make a right)the tims should have had a pen just before the pen was given, and if the defender is daft enough to let JVoH in front of him and grab his arm then hell mend him,he should know better than to give the ref another chance at giving them a pen.

[Frankenstein Jambo.]

 

I was referring to their performances in Europe when they dont get their usual share of dodgy decisions.......

 

Fancy a small wager who will get more penalties this season?

 

Didn't Hibs get the most pens last year?

[Charlie-Brown]

There are 38 x 6 games = 228 SPL games per season - the claim that refs screw 15 games per season seems like a conservative estimate.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Not that I'd ever wish that St Midden get any refereeing decisions in their favour but that is a disgrace.

 

FTOF

[gowestjambo]

 

Didn't Hibs get the most pens last year?

 

OK I'm wrong, we get a our fair share of decisions over the season, and I dont know how I have come up with the crazy idea, that Referee's favour rangers and celtic............

[gowestjambo]

 

Nope' date='and I'll tell you why,if past history has anything to go with then the OF have more shot's on/off goal than any other 2 teams put together,they get more chances in the box,have more possession so therefore will get more free kick's given against them.

 

Anyway instead of ripping into the refs why not just be glad that at least one of them has had a penalty awarded against them so early in the season.

 

PS for what it's worth(I know 2 wrongs dont make a right)the tims should have had a pen just before the pen was given, and if the defender is daft enough to let JVoH in front of him and grab his arm then hell mend him,he should know better than to give the ref another chance at giving them a pen.[/quote']

 

Sorry, I just dont go along with that. Firstly let me state that as we know the odds are stacked against us when playing either of the O/F, we should use it as a motivator!

 

Secondly, the majority of Refs will have supported either of the O/F before they became referee's, and they are just plain INTIMIDATED by the crowd noise to subconsciously favour them.

 

I remember when Father Kevin Donnelly never refereed another celtic game, after he BLATANTLY handed them a penalty against us!

 

I believe that knowing this adversity, we should rise above it and stick 5 past them, but lets not fool ourselves into thinking we get a fair deal from them!

[rudi]

 

Sorry' date=' I just dont go along with that. Firstly let me state that as we know the odds are stacked against us when playing either of the O/F, we should use it as a motivator!

 

Secondly, [b']the majority of Refs will have supported either of the O/F before they became referee's[/b], and they are just plain INTIMIDATED by the crowd noise to subconsciously favour them.

 

I remember when Father Kevin Donnelly never refereed another celtic game, after he BLATANTLY handed them a penalty against us!

 

I believe that knowing this adversity, we should rise above it and stick 5 past them, but lets not fool ourselves into thinking we get a fair deal from them!

 

Not the ones I've met.

 

Fact is mate,all over the world in every league the big teams,the ones with most of the better players get more free kicks given,the more you have the ball the more likely you are to get fouled.

 

I would like to see the stats of penalty claims agains penalties given for the OF then compare it to any other team in the SPL,I would imagine it would be quite even IMO.

 

Every one used to say that the tims would get their usual penalty if things were not going their way at the end of the game,but look at what they have always done in the last 5 mins of a game,it's 9 times out 0f 10 played in the oppositions box.

 

Anyway it's a new season,as I say, rangers have already had a penalty given against them and the tims not given a blatant penalty.

[Do you know where hell is]

 

Nope' date='and I'll tell you why,if past history has anything to go with then the OF have more shot's on/off goal than any other 2 teams put together,they get more chances in the box,have more possession so therefore will get more free kick's given against them.

 

Anyway instead of ripping into the refs why not just be glad that at least one of them has had a penalty awarded against them so early in the season.

 

PS for what it's worth(I know 2 wrongs dont make a right)the tims should have had a pen just before the pen was given, and if the defender is daft enough to let JVoH in front of him and grab his arm then hell mend him,he should know better than to give the ref another chance at giving them a pen.[/quote']

 

 

Are you serious?

[Rabbie_Burns]

 

Nope,and I'll tell you why,if past history has anything to go with then the OF have more shot's on/off goal than any other 2 teams put together,they get more chances in the box,have more possession so therefore will get more free kick's given against them.

 

Anyway instead of ripping into the refs why not just be glad that at least one of them has had a penalty awarded against them so early in the season.

 

PS for what it's worth(I know 2 wrongs dont make a right)the tims should have had a pen just before the pen was given, and if the defender is daft enough to let JVoH in front of him and grab his arm then hell mend him,he should know better than to give the ref another chance at giving them a pen.

 

 

Still pedalling the same old tripe...

[Do you know where hell is]

Rudi, name the ref's you have met or know. I honestly cant believe that you think thats true, the way in which you explain it to the rest of us so matter of fact, as if we really should have known all along, in the end its really all down to possesion? Is that your stance on the matter?

 

Is your opinion based on the fact that you've met many ref's? or is it what you have witnessed? What about games when the old firm have less possesion? How do you explain the famous davis incident?

[I.J]

I used to speak to a Premier referee in a Corstorphine pub around 10/11 years ago. He used to make light of the dodgy decisions he gave his favourite team (celtic).

 

He never gave us a bad 'un to be fair to him.

[cobbyshambles]

farce-there was an inquiry into him last year over the other free kick incident,isn't it about time the sfa get off their glasgow bandwagon and actually admit some referees are impartial.speaking of bad officials, did andy davies run the line of any other spl game after the rangers game a few years back?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I'm not one to jump on the slag the SFA for everything bandwagon, but, there is little doubt that a referee being the reviewee of his own decision, makes a total mockery of the review process.

 

Mind you, I expect the referees committee actually don't see what is wrong with this situation.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

 

Not the ones I've met.

 

Fact is mate,all over the world in every league the big teams,the ones with most of the better players get more free kicks given,the more you have the ball the more likely you are to get fouled.

 

I would like to see the stats of penalty claims agains penalties given for the OF then compare it to any other team in the SPL,I would imagine it would be quite even IMO.

 

Every one used to say that the tims would get their usual penalty if things were not going their way at the end of the game,but look at what they have always done in the last 5 mins of a game,it's 9 times out 0f 10 played in the oppositions box.

 

Anyway it's a new season,as I say, rangers have already had a penalty given against them and the tims not given a blatant penalty.

 

How would you explain Barry Ferguson getting zero bookings last year? I watched him raise his hands to a player at Aberdeen where he should've had a straight red. But never even got a yellow?

 

I'm not one of these all out SFA consipiracy theorists like some on here, but I do think there decisions are influenced at times and the facts (like ferguson not getting a single booking last year) do tend to point in that direction.

[Spellczech]

I used to speak to a Premier referee in a Corstorphine pub around 10/11 years ago. He used to make light of the dodgy decisions he gave his favourite team (celtic).

 

He never gave us a bad 'un to be fair to him.

 

Well if he drank in Corstophine that is hardly a surprise. The pertinent question, however, is did his proximity to Hearts make him actually favour us, or just do his job properly and neutrally...

[Jambo66]

The only refreshing time to watch either of the O/F is when they are in Europe (better once they are out actually)' date=' have you seen the look on their faces when they don't get their usual soft awards?

 

[b']The times they encounter a level playing field, and a referee who isnt intimidated by them they usually lose, surely that tells us something?[/[/b]QUOTE]

 

Erm ,sorry to **** on your parade but,who got the season's first penalty given against them, and what was the final score?

 

There would have been a riot if Falkirk hadn't been awarded that penalty. However, the referee made sure that Falkirk didn't gain too much of an advantage by not sending the Rangers player off.

 

I may be wrong, but if I have just beaten a player in the box, 12 yards from goal and I am about to shoot, I would say that I have a clear goal scoring opportunity. If I'm fouled, I would expect the perpetrator to be sent off. In this case he was only booked. Why? Simple, the referee wasn't prepared to do what he should have done and send him off.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

There would have been a riot if Falkirk hadn't been awarded that penalty. However, the referee made sure that Falkirk didn't gain too much of an advantage by not sending the Rangers player off.

 

I may be wrong, but if I have just beaten a player in the box, 12 yards from goal and I am about to shoot, I would say that I have a clear goal scoring opportunity. If I'm fouled, I would expect the perpetrator to be sent off. In this case he was only booked. Why? Simple, the referee wasn't prepared to do what he should have done and send him off.

 

Problem is, you're basically saying that any foul in the box is a red card. Which is clearly not the interpretation of the law that is used throughout football.

 

Do you think Banks should've got a red for handling outside his box on Saturday?

[Jammy T]

I'm not one to jump on the slag the SFA for everything bandwagon, but, there is little doubt that a referee being the reviewee of his own decision, makes a total mockery of the review process.

 

Mind you, I expect the referees committee actually don't see what is wrong with this situation.

 

Its an absolute breach of the law of natural justice and bias.

 

Quite simple

 

However the clubs must have voted to allow such rules to be in place and not subject to challenge, so they only have themselves to blame

[Ben Dover]

Maybe even the GFA / McVicar can see that the number of rescinded cards / honest mistakes is becoming difficult to 'explain'

On top of that, Smith is a high level copper and they appear to consider themselves answerable to NOBODY

[marshallschunkychicken]

Listening to yesterday's Sportsound podcast, and Stephen Craigan was on.

 

Paraphrasing a bit here, but he essentially said: 'If that was Billy Mehmet at the other end with the same penalty claim, I guarantee it would not have been given...'

[cobbyshambles]

Listening to yesterday's Sportsound podcast, and Stephen Craigan was on.

 

Paraphrasing a bit here, but he essentially said: 'If that was Billy Mehmet at the other end with the same penalty claim, I guarantee it would not have been given...'

it's so blatant now that everyone knows that referees either give in to the old firm over vital decisions as they're worried of the consequences,or because they're impartial.

[Shaggy2]

Problem is, you're basically saying that any foul in the box is a red card. Which is clearly not the interpretation of the law that is used throughout football.

 

Do you think Banks should've got a red for handling outside his box on Saturday?

 

I don't like the professional foul rule. Edit: Sorry, should've said I don't like the way refs interpret it.

 

The law states that a red card should be shown if a player...

 

"denies an obvious goal scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick."

 

IMO (even though I'm not sure the guy couldn't have stayed up) the Falkirk player had a far better "goal scoring opportunity" than say a very slow player (eg Colin Nish) being brought down by the last man on the halfway line. Yet the "last man" is far more likely to be sent off. Refs tend to interpret the last man rule rather than the opportunity of a goal being scored. IMO this is caused because very few, if any refs have ever played football and therefore their understanding of what may develop is limited.

 

As for Banks. I've only seen it once but I think we got off with one there...

[Coco]

Its an absolute breach of the law of natural justice and bias.

 

Quite simple

 

 

Only if you think that all the decisions in the game should be second guessed.

 

I guess that the thinking is that this review process allows the referee's judgement as sole arbiter to be reviewed by himself.

 

That said, I am surprised that he didn't revoke his decision. Which suggests incompetence at least.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I don't like the professional foul rule. Edit: Sorry, should've said I don't like the way refs interpret it.

 

The law states that a red card should be shown if a player...

 

"denies an obvious goal scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick."

 

IMO (even though I'm not sure the guy couldn't have stayed up) the Falkirk player had a far better "goal scoring opportunity" than say a very slow player (eg Colin Nish) being brought down by the last man on the halfway line. Yet the "last man" is far more likely to be sent off. Refs tend to interpret the last man rule rather than the opportunity of a goal being scored. IMO this is caused because very few, if any refs have ever played football and therefore their understanding of what may develop is limited.

 

Agree entirely mate.

 

As for Banks. I've only seen it once but I think we got off with one there...

 

And agree again.

[Jammy T]

Only if you think that all the decisions in the game should be second guessed.

 

I guess that the thinking is that this review process allows the referee's judgement as sole arbiter to be reviewed by himself.

 

That said, I am surprised that he didn't revoke his decision. Which suggests incompetence at least.

 

Well its an appeal process

 

A decision has been made which has been appealed.

 

The person ruling upon the appeal is the person that made the original decision

 

Therefore breach of natural justice

 

But as I said, the SPL clubs will all have signed up to this process so more full them