So is this the end for ?Hoofball??

[Buffalo Bill]

Now I know I?ve said it before on here, but from my position high up in the Wheatfield Stand Section B, I?m forever seeing Driver out wide on the left on his own waiting for that killer pass.

 

But for the last god knows how many years, we?ve had to endure goalkeepers and centre halves hoofing it up the park to the nearest grateful giant of an opposition defender.

 

For the most part, it?s all I?ve ever known.

 

Now don?t get me wrong, I?m really not all that bothered, as long as we win, or at least that I leave Tynecastle with something to make me feel glad about (even if that ?something? is a nice 31st minute carton of chips and curry sauce from the van down the steps).

 

And besides, think back (if you can) to those glorious eight days in April 1986 when long balls from Jardine/Levein resulted in sensational goals for JC/JR. The long ball is fine, as long as it works.

 

But will it work for Csaba?

 

Is he going to force his guys to roll it out? Will Berra no longer be allowed to lump it? Will Banks be barred from humping it?!

 

Will Vladimir Romanov finally be able to bring his wife to the game, as his promise of ?beautiful football? takes shape?

 

Will Driver get his pass?

 

He should, because from where I sit, there?s room for a bus down there.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[sjh1874]

Nope, Driver will be doing the hoofing from his left back berth.

 

[Jammy T]

Will Banks be barred from humping it?!

 

 

.

 

Have you started working for Viz?

[Buffalo Bill]

Have you started working for Viz?

 

I like to throw in a little 'handshame' every now and then.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[cosanostra]

To be fair, we tried to play the ball on the deck a lot last season, we just were not very good at it. The ball always found it's way to one of our full backs who pretty much always gave it away. We have Obua and I think if we signed a right back, we'd play some decent stuff and keep the ball.

[Coco]

No Velicka and hopefully no Ksnavicius/Elliot this year should make it far easier to play a more attractive style of football. Those players' inability to hold the ball up (together with the lack of fitness/motivation of most of our midfield) was a major reason for the poor style of football and poor results last year.

[Cut The Crap]

On the evidence of last Sunday's match against Hull, the hoof is still very much part of our...ah..."armory".

[200milesfromgorgie]

curry sauce. dear oh dear (tin hat on)

[JamTartJay]

Now I know I?ve said it before on here, but from my position high up in the Wheatfield Stand Section B, I?m forever seeing Driver out wide on the left on his own waiting for that killer pass.

 

But for the last god knows how many years, we?ve had to endure goalkeepers and centre halves hoofing it up the park to the nearest grateful giant of an opposition defender.

 

For the most part, it?s all I?ve ever known.

 

Now don?t get me wrong, I?m really not all that bothered, as long as we win, or at least that I leave Tynecastle with something to make me feel glad about (even if that ?something? is a nice 31st minute carton of chips and curry sauce from the van down the steps).

 

And besides, think back (if you can) to those glorious eight days in April 1986 when long balls from Jardine/Levein resulted in sensational goals for JC/JR. The long ball is fine, as long as it works.

 

But will it work for Csaba?

 

Is he going to force his guys to roll it out? Will Berra no longer be allowed to lump it? Will Banks be barred from humping it?!

 

Will Vladimir Romanov finally be able to bring his wife to the game, as his promise of ?beautiful football? takes shape?

 

Will Driver get his pass?

 

He should, because from where I sit, there?s room for a bus down there.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

To be honest I am in the Main stand (not really lofty, rather pitch side) and I can't talk as much for Driver on the left but it seemed a lot of the time last season we had acres on the right if only we could switch the ball quickly...maybe it is my ignorance but if you stretch a defense back and forward across the pitch cracks will appear.

[cosanostra]

No Velicka and hopefully no Ksnavicius/Elliot this year should make it far easier to play a more attractive style of football. Those players' inability to hold the ball up (together with the lack of fitness/motivation of most of our midfield) was a major reason for the poor style of football and poor results last year.

 

Have to agree with that.

 

Audrey and Clum make my soul cry.

 

Thinking back to last season, we actually played some great football in a few games. The home games v the Huns, Aberdeen and Falkirk saw us play some excellent stuff.

[sjh1874]

On the evidence of last Sunday's match against Hull, the hoof is still very much part of our...ah..."armory".

 

And it always should be. There are times when shoe leather should be contacted at force with the ball. I stress at times and not all the time. There has never and will never be any shame in playing a long ball game i.e. when your chasing a game etc.

 

What Hearts have been unable to do for some considerable time is vary the way we play and have become far to predictable for our opposition. Having watched us on Sunday I think times maybe a changing.

 

[Jambof3tornado]

On the evidence of last Sunday's match against Hull, the hoof is still very much part of our...ah..."armory".

 

The hoofball is always going to be a part of our attack,however it wasnt just a case of get the ball and lump it last weekend,if a pass wasnt on then the defenders were giving it to banks rather than punt it and lose it(most of the time anyhow). This clearly shows a marked improvement on last year. I also think than given time and with confidence Berra and Marius Z will learn to find a player with a pass.

 

 

As for Driver on the wing I dont know how many times in the last 2 seasons I have found myself yelling at Hearts players to "pass the frekkin ball to Driver".

 

Fingers crossed eh!!

[Boris]

What are all these references to "handshame" about?

 

Sorry to go off topic but what does it mean?

[Pants Shaton]

What are all these references to "handshame" about?

 

Sorry to go off topic but what does it mean?

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23692#post423132

[Tazio]

I'd like us to go back to the 1990's style of charging at teams at high speed. We always had good enough defences to let the other team come at us and than steam up the pitch back at them once they had committed too many players.

[Jamboy81]

The key to saying goodbye to Hoofball is having fullbacks who can bring the ball out of defence, forwards who can hold the ball and midfielders who can run beyond the strikers.

 

Hearts actually had all 3 of these things when Burley was manager and the end result was some terrific football.

 

The problem now is the man on the ball has a shortage of options and there is no goal threat from midfield or up front!

 

You also need intelligent players who know how to move off the ball and find space. Johnson and Kingston for example are good at this but in general i would say the movement of the players isn't up to scratch (because most of them aren't good enough).

 

Csaba is trying to get the players to pass and move which i like but the bottom line is there is still a lot of rubbish in the squad and a clearout is still needed.

[Gregorski]

A question that may be worth raising is would the Hearts support be patient enough to put up with a passing game which starts from the back or would we quite often have to put up with shouts of "fir feck's sake, just get it oot aw there!" or some thing similar?

[Boris]

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23692#post423132

 

Hahaha

 

Brilliant.

 

BB, I hope your book was proof read!

 

Cheers GMAN.

[Dr. Bapswent]

BB, the facts are plain to see each week.

 

We arent scoring, yet we choose to play the ball hight into Mole, Ksanavicuis and Driver...who are tiny.

 

It doesn't take genius to work out the maths.

 

(OK Ksanavisuis scored against Hull)

 

That alone should tell you its a bad plan.

 

But not only that, we have the players (take Mickey Stewart out) who can play the ball around opposition, certainly better than they can hoof the ball into a 3 foot tall fella.

 

I seriously hope it does change.

 

It might not make the results any better (it cant make them any worse), but it'll be better football to watch, and the fans will at least win in that respect.

 

Gimme a 6,9 forward and ill tell you a different story.

[Coco]

A question that may be worth raising is would the Hearts support be patient enough to put up with a passing game which starts from the back or would we quite often have to put up with shouts of "fir feck's sake, just get it oot aw there!" or some thing similar?

 

I hope that we don't see a 'Continental' game.

 

Ie Palazuelos style, we win the ball, then immediately pass it backward and the defenders pass it amongst themselves.

 

The time to attack teams is immediately that they have lost the ball. Direct football is all about getting the ball forward quickly when the opposition have lost it. The team with Brellier, Skacel etc were great at this. Brellier would win the ball or take it from the defenders, pass it on to the likes of Rudi or Hartley - who would then have the immediate option of Jankauskas short or Bednar long. Great stuff. It would not have worked if the midfield had given the ball back to the defenders for long enough that the opposition can get back into position.

[Buffalo Bill]

Hahaha

 

Brilliant.

 

BB, I hope your book was proof read!

 

Cheers GMAN.

 

'Handshame' is something I've toying about with for a while now.

 

I was just waiting for the right moment to insert it into a wider audience.

 

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Buffalo Bill]

I'd like us to go back to the 1990's style of charging at teams at high speed. We always had good enough defences to let the other team come at us and than steam up the pitch back at them once they had committed too many players.

 

I like this tactic a lot.

 

Tynecastle: crank it up: and charge.

 

 

Perfect.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Cut The Crap]

The hoofball is always going to be a part of our attack,however it wasnt just a case of get the ball and lump it last weekend,if a pass wasnt on then the defenders were giving it to banks rather than punt it and lose it(most of the time anyhow). This clearly shows a marked improvement on last year. I also think than given time and with confidence Berra and Marius Z will learn to find a player with a pass.

 

 

As for Driver on the wing I dont know how many times in the last 2 seasons I have found myself yelling at Hearts players to "pass the frekkin ball to Driver".

 

Fingers crossed eh!!

 

Banks then had no option but to punt it (rather too often for my liking). All four defenders and the two central midfielders were guilty of too many seemingly aimless punts.

 

We've a long way to go.

[topcat]

There is always a place for "direct" football, the problem is when the team becomes one dimensional and predictable meaning that oppositions can lay back and mop up the long balls as they come in. If we've drawn the opposition forward then opportunities are created for the big ball over the top to catch the opposition with a sucker punch.

 

Suprise whould be our chief weapon.

 

Suprise and Fear

 

Suprise and Fear should be our two chief weapons

 

Suprise, Fear and, oh hang on I'll get my coat

[Craigieboy]

Given the performance on Sunday, I would say that we will still be lumping it up to tiny wee forwards for a good while.

 

So frustrating to watch. Even the Hull defense dealt with it easily. Like most defenders, they were tall!

 

PS - handshame.

 

.

[hmfc_steve]

I like this tactic a lot.

 

Tynecastle: crank it up: and charge.

 

 

Perfect.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

What .... hoof it as high in the air as possible ... and the whole team charge after it .... apart from the goalie, obviously !

[Debut 4]

sorry BB, i think you are way off the mark and given your the same age as me you`ll have been brought up on good football from the mid -eighties teams.

 

I really don`t see what everyones upset at? Do you think football is so perfect that you can always come out of defence on the deck?

 

Variation is the key, and long balls forward are sometimes effective as long as it`s co-ordinated that the players react to what they should be doing in that situation.

 

Hearts did use the long ball at times with the 86 team but there was a meaning to it and we had very capable players on the deck too. Hearts play around the box then was superb and we saw many great interchanging moves with JC, Robbo, MacKay etc...

 

Football is about efficiency, and while i`d alway promote the players to play on the deck and have good movement, certain situations in a game don`t allow it and you have to have a plan B if you like.

[Imeantasong]

Scottish fans aren't exactly notoriously patient when there's a lack of action in the opponent's half (apart from Hibs fans of course who understand the patient build up and when to hoof. They invented tactics if I'm correct?).

 

There will be, IMO, a lot of tippy tapping about, then a major hoof from the goalie, and we'll be wondering why we didn't just do that in the first place.

 

I think any fans would be patient though when it's done correctly with competent players.

 

At present, we don't look like we've got enough of them.

 

But let's give the managers a bit time. Trying to get us to play a brand that hopefully we improve on, which involves skill and effort.

 

Patience please gentlemen. Until we go a goal down at least.

[Debut 4]

Scottish fans aren't exactly notoriously patient when there's a lack of action in the opponent's half (apart from Hibs fans of course who understand the patient build up and when to hoof. They invented tactics if I'm correct?).

 

There will be, IMO, a lot of tippy tapping about, then a major hoof from the goalie, and we'll be wondering why we didn't just do that in the first place.

 

I think any fans would be patient though when it's done correctly with competent players.

 

At present, we don't look like we've got enough of them.

But let's give the managers a bit time. Trying to get us to play a brand that hopefully we improve on, which involves skill and effort.

 

Patience please gentlemen. Until we go a goal down at least.

Exactly, and when you have you can do it quicker and more efficiently. Right away two players stick out who don`t look wholly comfortable going forward with the ball at feet, Neilson and Berra.

 

I like Berra as a defender and as a player who`ll give the ball right away, but the minute he tries to be Beckenbauer he panics a little when someone attempts to close him down.

 

We have plenty midfielders comfy in possession, but they have to have trust in their defenders to be a unit when bringing it out.

[Buffalo Bill]

sorry BB, i think you are way off the mark and given your the same age as me you`ll have been brought up on good football from the mid -eighties teams.

 

I really don`t see what everyones upset at? Do you think football is so perfect that you can always come out of defence on the deck?

 

Variation is the key, and long balls forward are sometimes effective as long as it`s co-ordinated that the players react to what they should be doing in that situation.

 

Hearts did use the long ball at times with the 86 team but there was a meaning to it and we had very capable players on the deck too. Hearts play around the box then was superb and we saw many great interchanging moves with JC, Robbo, MacKay etc...

 

Football is about efficiency, and while i`d alway promote the players to play on the deck and have good movement, certain situations in a game don`t allow it and you have to have a plan B if you like.

 

Mate, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. I'm not complaining. I'm just asking if you think Csaba will introduce the short pass out of defence.

 

 

My Driver/A.N Other wide man in space comment player can't be way off the mark because I really do see it every game!

 

For what it's worth, I loved (and still love) our teams of the mid-80s, but they did often use the long ball (to good effect) and like I said, I never complained then and I'm not complaining about them now.

 

But surely asking for decent, more astute service out of defence is a reasonable suggestion in 2008?

 

Or am I wrong?

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Debut 4]

Mate, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. I'm not complaining. I'm just asking if you think Csaba will introduce the short pass out of defence.

 

 

My Driver/A.N Other wide man in space comment player can't be way off the mark because I really do see it every game!

 

For what it's worth, I loved (and still love) our teams of the mid-80s, but they did often use the long ball (to good effect) and like I said, I never complained then and I'm not complaining about them now.

 

But surely asking for decent, more astute service out of defence is a reasonable suggestion in 2008?

 

Or am I wrong?

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

Maybe it was unintentional on your part, but you did say for the last few years we`ve had to endure aimless balls out of defence?

 

I don`t think you can accuse the 2005/06 team of that?

 

There just tends to be this constant bemoaning on here that we don`t attempt to play more calculated out of defence, i think we do, it`s just we don`t have the quality from the back at times to, as you say, find that killer ball quick enough.

[Buffalo Bill]

Maybe it was unintentional on your part, but you did say for the last few years we`ve had to endure aimless balls out of defence?

 

I don`t think you can accuse the 2005/06 team of that?

 

There just tends to be this constant bemoaning on here that we don`t attempt to play more calculated out of defence, i think we do, it`s just we don`t have the quality from the back at times to, as you say, find that killer ball quick enough.

 

 

As I said at the start mate, I'm not complaining (if we win), and 2005/06 was fantastic (apart from all the hassle, and the Graham Rix months): but even then - Pressley and Webster liked the odd 'hoof': even just a cheeky one now and again

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Debut 4]

As I said at the start mate, I'm not complaining (if we win), and 2005/06 was fantastic (apart from all the hassle, and the Graham Rix months): but even then - Pressley and Webster liked the odd 'hoof': even just a cheeky one now and again

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

When you are last line of defence and in possession of the ball it`s up to the players in front to look for the ball, if they are not there the defender is sooner or later going to get shut down therefore having to "hoof".

 

Don`t think we can blame the defence all the time.

[Martin_T]

Now I know I?ve said it before on here, but from my position high up in the Wheatfield Stand Section B, I?m forever seeing Driver out wide on the left on his own waiting for that killer pass.

 

But for the last god knows how many years, we?ve had to endure goalkeepers and centre halves hoofing it up the park to the nearest grateful giant of an opposition defender.

 

For the most part, it?s all I?ve ever known.

 

Now don?t get me wrong, I?m really not all that bothered, as long as we win, or at least that I leave Tynecastle with something to make me feel glad about (even if that ?something? is a nice 31st minute carton of chips and curry sauce from the van down the steps).

 

And besides, think back (if you can) to those glorious eight days in April 1986 when long balls from Jardine/Levein resulted in sensational goals for JC/JR. The long ball is fine, as long as it works.

 

But will it work for Csaba?

 

Is he going to force his guys to roll it out? Will Berra no longer be allowed to lump it? Will Banks be barred from humping it?!

 

Will Vladimir Romanov finally be able to bring his wife to the game, as his promise of ?beautiful football? takes shape?

 

Will Driver get his pass?

 

He should, because from where I sit, there?s room for a bus down there.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

 

I've got to be honest and say I think this is a poor post BB, playing right into the hands of the slavering Hobo fantasists. Hearts under Jim Jefferies used to play out through the full backs all the time, one of my main memories from the seasons circa 98 to 2000 is Gary Naysmith receiving the ball from Rousset/ Niemi and bombing forward down the wing. The Burley team also regularly played out through Fyssas in particular.

 

Incidently, one of the biggest hoofing teams in the SPL were Hibs under Mowbray, in spite of all the nonsense written in the press. Their main tactic was for long diagonal hoofs from Murphy in the general direction of O'Connor.

[Debut 4]

I've got to be honest and say I think this is a poor post BB, playing right into the hands of the slavering Hobo fantasists. Hearts under Jim Jefferies used to play out through the full backs all the time, one of my main memories from the seasons circa 98 to 2000 is Gary Naysmith receiving the ball from Rousset/ Niemi and bombing forward down the wing. The Burley team also regularly played out through Fyssas in particular.

 

Incidently, one of the biggest hoofing teams in the SPL were Hibs under Mowbray, in spite of all the nonsense written in the press. Their main tactic was for long diagonal hoofs from Murphy in the general direction of O'Connor.

 

Very much agree.

[Buffalo Bill]

I've got to be honest and say I think this is a poor post BB, playing right into the hands of the slavering Hobo fantasists. Hearts under Jim Jefferies used to play out through the full backs all the time, one of my main memories from the seasons circa 98 to 2000 is Gary Naysmith receiving the ball from Rousset/ Niemi and bombing forward down the wing. The Burley team also regularly played out through Fyssas in particular.

 

Incidently, one of the biggest hoofing teams in the SPL were Hibs under Mowbray, in spite of all the nonsense written in the press. Their main tactic was for long diagonal hoofs from Murphy in the general direction of O'Connor.

 

Most of 97/98 football was fantastic and I've banged the drum on here many times about the left hand side of the 97/98 team, but apart from a few purple patches, the ball has often been hoofed and all I'm saying is that it's a waste when that happens (if we don't win).

 

Not bothered at all what Hobos think to be honest.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Martin_T]

Most of 97/98 football was fantastic and I've banged the drum on here many times about the left hand side of the 97/98 team, but apart from a few purple patches, the ball has often been hoofed and all I'm saying is that it's a waste when that happens (if we don't win).

 

Not bothered at all what Hobos think to be honest.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

Fair enough, but I don't think Hearts do it more than any other team in the SPL.

[Era Macaroons]

Now I know.....

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

Hopefully we will see a lot less of it.

 

Especially with less passing back to the goalie, who then has no option but to hoof it.

 

Hoofing tends to be a last resort but hopefully the other team(s) will be doing a bit more of it against us next season.

[Jammy T]

I've got to be honest and say I think this is a poor post BB, playing right into the hands of the slavering Hobo fantasists. Hearts under Jim Jefferies used to play out through the full backs all the time, one of my main memories from the seasons circa 98 to 2000 is Gary Naysmith receiving the ball from Rousset/ Niemi and bombing forward down the wing. The Burley team also regularly played out through Fyssas in particular.

 

Incidently, one of the biggest hoofing teams in the SPL were Hibs under Mowbray, in spite of all the nonsense written in the press. Their main tactic was for long diagonal hoofs from Murphy in the general direction of O'Connor.

 

I think you are right mostly.

 

Hibs also played a lot of "quarterback" long balls. eg from a deeper lieing midfielder (eg "boozy") down the channels or behind the opposition defenders

 

I think they got away with avoiding the long ball tag because it wasnt hoofed up to a target man for knock downs. It was more subtle than that - still quite often a long ball game

[K1874M]

I liked the hoof.... reminded me that I was Scottish. Maybe that was vlads plan.

 

Back to point... can see us playing a style of football that is pretty fresh, less muscle and more on the ground lots of movement and far slower build ups... Something we havent really seen at tynie for a while.

[Spellczech]

To be honest I am in the Main stand (not really lofty, rather pitch side) and I can't talk as much for Driver on the left but it seemed a lot of the time last season we had acres on the right if only we could switch the ball quickly...maybe it is my ignorance but if you stretch a defense back and forward across the pitch cracks will appear.

 

True, Celtic make a lot of chances by playing lateral balls 22-25 yards out.

[john brownlee]

BB

 

I dont have a problem with this so called hoofball to me its part of the game , three moves to score or ten moves to score makes no difference to me Is a indirect free kick from the box to a player who scores is that hoofball ?

 

What I dont like is central defenders punting the ball as far up the park as the can get it, going to no one, because they are not good enough to do anything else and thats not hoofball thats panic.

 

Anyway looking forward to saturdays game and happy with what I've seen so far and I think our style of play will improve and we will see a lot of entertaining football this coming season

[woody47]

I think you are right mostly.

 

Hibs also played a lot of "quarterback" long balls. eg from a deeper lieing midfielder (eg "boozy") down the channels or behind the opposition defenders

 

I think they got away with avoiding the long ball tag because it wasnt hoofed up to a target man for knock downs. It was more subtle than that - still quite often a long ball game

 

I think the difference being - passing a ball that splits a defence to aimlessy punting a ball in the hope that a forward will get to it before the defender. Scottish football for the most has always been the old up and under punt then charge.

I think if you watch a lot of EPL there are a lot of their teams play "hoofball" but because it is the best league in the world!!!, they don't get slagged for it.

I love watching a team moving the ball around with short passes, splitting defences etc but at the end of the day scoring more goals than the oposition is what wins the game and gets the points.

[Charlie-Brown]

Getting the ball forward as quickly as possible (accurately) is what helps to create 1v1 situations, attackers on defenders and to create goalscoring chances however there is a world of difference to playing the ball forward to feet in a quick and accurate way and simply blootering the ball upfield in the general direction of the opposing goals.....one way aims to play football with skill and accuracy the other is just a feature of limited players / limited tactics and will result in loss of possession as often as it will result in creating forward opportunities.

[Tazio]

Was Bergkamps goal in the World Cup a hoofball?

 

I reckon Clum could do this

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exlBHTyB1R0

[Debut 4]

Getting the ball forward as quickly as possible (accurately) is what helps to create 1v1 situations, attackers on defenders and to create goalscoring chances however there is a world of difference to playing the ball forward to feet in a quick and accurate way and simply blootering the ball upfield in the general direction of the opposing goals.....one way aims to play football with skill and accuracy the other is just a feature of limited players / limited tactics and will result in loss of possession as often as it will result in creating forward opportunities.

 

The 98/2006 teams where very good at that. When Hearts produce genuinely good sides we are direct(and i don`t mean in the air) , we get the ball into the forwards early and take it from there, but you need the players to do so.

 

Can`t stand teams that play meaningless after meaningless passes and don`t have an end product. Yes, you have to maintain possession when nothing is on and don`t give it away needlessly, but the team should always be looking to be sharp and progressive with the ball.

 

There`s many pretty football teams who are good on the ball up until it`s in the mix around the oppositions box and it breaks down.

 

As Csaba says, its all about results, always will be.