Moriarty Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 surely we can get a work permit for him by arguing he would improve the league or am I confused on how work permits are handed out. Im sure hibs got some of their players this way. He looked pretty nippy against the orange *****, shame if we can't get the one kaunas player worth taking (apart fae pillowbiter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoddyhmfc Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 gotta agree with you on the WP thing i thought they were there to keep crap out the scottish game! Ledesma looks a right talent would love him to arrive at hearts even if only to come on at half time when we play the Gers and get a standing ovation from the Tynecastle Faithfull! :107years: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 He has to have played over 75% of games for his country... he is Brazilian... ie. feckin nae chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Could certainly look to an appeal. Bit lightweight but some of his deliveries deserved a Mole-esque striker on the end of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Could certainly look to an appeal. Bit lightweight but some of his deliveries deserved a Mole-esque striker on the end of them. Mole-esque mate?! When has he ever got on the end of deliveries!? And as much as he looks reasonable i just can't for 1 minute see him getting a WP, even on appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 He has to have played over 75% of games for his country... he is Brazilian... ie. feckin nae chance. and if he hasn't then it goes to appeal. at which point we use the two games against rangers to say he would improve the league and should be allowed in. capiche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 and if he hasn't then it goes to appeal. at which point we use the two games against rangers to say he would improve the league and should be allowed in. capiche I can already picture him winning that appeal, holding up the Hearts shirt and scoring the winner at Castle Greyskull on August 16... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 The WP thing is tricky. If we want to go through the effort of a WP appeal, then it might be worth it, as there's a chance we might be able to convince the appeal board. However, what is there to lose if it doesn't got through? he stays at cowness? no great shakes really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboSean Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 It would be an absolute farce if he wasn't given a work permit after an appeal. Especially after today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only a Game Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 surely we can get a work permit for him by arguing he would improve the league or am I confused on how work permits are handed out. Im sure hibs got some of their players this way. He looked pretty nippy against the orange *****, shame if we can't get the one kaunas player worth taking (apart fae pillowbiter) On what grounds can we get a work permit for him ? Work permits are there for a good reason (in a United Kingdom work force as a whole sort of way) so they cant just be shoved to one side because we fancy a player. I believe however, if it offers you some hope, that he's not far away from qualifying for Lithuanian citizenship due to the time he has resided there.(perhaps thats what we are waiting for and why he is still there), in which case he would not need a work permit but would probably have to come on loan to keep some semblance of ties with Lithuania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only a Game Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 It would be an absolute farce if he wasn't given a work permit after an appeal. Especially after today. How is it a farce. He doesnt come anywhere even close to qualifying for a work permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboSean Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 How is it a farce. He doesnt come anywhere even close to qualifying for a work permit. He does not meet the criteria. But, he should/would win an appeal as he would improve the standard of the SPL. Or what ever wording they have for it. He's proven that over two legs against Rangers. If Rangers were to put a bid in for him tomorrow, he'd win a work permit through an appeal right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 How is it a farce. He doesnt come anywhere even close to qualifying for a work permit. on appeal I believe a player can be given a permit if the board can be convinced the player would improve the standard of the SPL. Considering who we have up front that is a certainty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 How is it a farce. He doesnt come anywhere even close to qualifying for a work permit. Neither did Mizuno or dozens of others. We wouldn't get one automatically obviously due to him never being capped, on appeal however it's down to whether he'd make a "significant impact" or however it's worded. Would be curious to see how a player that's took Rangers apart twice in a row could be classed as "not good enough" by the panel, i'm sure they'd find a way mind.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboRossi79 Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 He does not meet the criteria. But, he should/would win an appeal as he would improve the standard of the SPL. Or what ever wording they have for it. He's proven that over two legs against Rangers. If Rangers were to put a bid in for him tomorrow, he'd win a work permit through an appeal right away. That's my understanding and also is how Benji the dug and Zemmary got to the Hobos and Smeltic got Mizuno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.N.T.H. Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 He would never get a work permit. I think we should take Mendy aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 Where an application does not meet the published criteria, a club may request a panel to consider the player's skills and experience. In these cases the sports and entertainments team, UK Border Agency, will refer the club's evidence to an independent panel. Where possible the club's supporting evidence will be sent to the governing bodies in advance for their consideration in order to allow an informed decision. The panel will normally consist of representatives from the relevant football governing bodies together with up to three independent experts. The panel's terms of reference are: To consider whether the player is of the highest calibre. To consider whether the player is able to contribute significantly to the development of the game at the top level in United Kingdom. The panel will make a recommendation to the UK Border Agency whose decision will then be relayed to the club. taken from http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/workingintheuk/tier2/workpermits/workpermitarrangements/sportsandentertainments/footballplayers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboRossi79 Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 He would never get a work permit. I think we should take Mendy aswell. Why not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Why not ? Because he helped to stick one over on one half of the Old Firm? Just a hunch though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I would guess we won't get our hands on any Kaunas players until they get knocked out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboruss Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I would guess we won't get our hands on any Kaunas players until they get knocked out? beat me to it - are we being a bit presumptious that a player about to progress in Europe would want to play for a team who were eighth in a crap league?............ even assuming our owner sanctioned it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Do we now hope they go out in the next round?? Bit drastic just to get Mendy and Leddy,wasnt really impressed with either,and not sure they would improve the team that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Do we now hope they go out in the next round?? Bit drastic just to get Mendy and Leddy,wasnt really impressed with either,and not sure they would improve the team that much. They wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 In theory, Ledesma has just as much chance as Obua as getting a work permit; neither meets the criteria for qualifying automatically, and thus any application must convince the appeal panel of his potential contribution. A few good performances in the Champions League group stages may back up his case. Either that, or we could get him to apply for Japanese or Chinese citizenship, and convince the panel of his potential for bootleg strip sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillsjambo29 Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 beat me to it - are we being a bit presumptious that a player about to progress in Europe would want to play for a team who were eighth in a crap league?............ even assuming our owner sanctioned it! from watching the game tonight i'm pretty sure a cllip of one of our games featuring more than 1000 fans in a bigger league to showcase his talents could sway him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 They wouldn't. Did we just agree??I dont often see eye to eye with you Drylaw,maybe one of us is mellowing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 There is no chance we will sign any of the Kaunas first 11 whilst they are still in the champions league. we will need to wait until they get knocked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboRossi79 Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 In theory, Ledesma has just as much chance as Obua as getting a work permit; neither meets the criteria for qualifying automatically, and thus any application must convince the appeal panel of his potential contribution. A few good performances in the Champions League group stages may back up his case. Either that, or we could get him to apply for Japanese or Chinese citizenship, and convince the panel of his potential for bootleg strip sales. I see what you are saying but not quite the same, Obua has played 75% of internationals for his country (but his country is outwith the top 70) whereas Ledesma hasn't played any internationals for his country (which is well within the top 70 I think ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Wilson Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 So with regards to getting a WP, what's the difference between him and Sammy Camazzola?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 So with regards to getting a WP, what's the difference between him and Sammy Camazzola?? think he had an italian passport. But i don't think Ledesma does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 If Ledesma has Lithuanian citizenship, he wouldn't even need a WP. I wonder if Vlad is "arranging" a marriage for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissthebadge Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 To Rodney??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMBO747 Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Was Sammy Camazolla not Brazilian?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboMarc Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Was Sammy Camazolla not Brazilian?? Yes, and im sure he still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 don't want him he's a diving cheat! and also hate seeing players waving there arms wanting other players booked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMBO747 Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Doh - My point is if he is Brazilian and got a work permit no reason why the Brazilian at Kaunus couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Doh - My point is if he is Brazilian and got a work permit no reason why the Brazilian at Kaunus couldn't. Because he had an italian passport. Did you not read the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I see what you are saying but not quite the same, Obua has played 75% of internationals for his country (but his country is outwith the top 70) whereas Ledesma hasn't played any internationals for his country (which is well within the top 70 I think ) My point is that neither qualifies for an automatic permit, and thus the number of games Obua has played for Uganda becomes nothing more than evidence which may, or may not, influence what is a subjective decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I didn't really think he was THAT good, I wouldn't take a single FBK player after watching them the other night. I hope they get manage to stay in Europe past August so it won't be an issue. I'm not against us signing Lithuanians I'd just rather we signed their best players like Dedura, Stankevicuis, Poskus, Eddy Cesnauskis etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanyl Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 If Ledesma has Lithuanian citizenship, he wouldn't even need a WP. I wonder if Vlad is "arranging" a marriage for him! maybe its a bit like the Belgium clubs that premiership teams use... few years in Lithuania the guy gets a passport and can then play for hearts nae probs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 maybe its a bit like the Belgium clubs that premiership teams use... few years in Lithuania the guy gets a passport and can then play for hearts nae probs I remember Kislas saying they are very strict on handing out citizenship in Lithuania, so I imagine unless he has been there five years he wont easily get citizenship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thig Ar Latha Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 My point is that neither qualifies for an automatic permit, and thus the number of games Obua has played for Uganda becomes nothing more than evidence which may, or may not, influence what is a subjective decision. Obua is a very regular Ugandan Internationalist as well as being a recent South African player of the Year. Ledesma, on the other hand (to the best of my knowedge) has'nt had a sniff at a Brazillian Cap and nobody here had heasd of till 3 weeks ago. Why is this even being talked about? Unless he has a European Passport, which I don't think he has or Citizenship, which I doubt. This is a waste of a Thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KisLas Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I remember Kislas saying they are very strict on handing out citizenship in Lithuania, so I imagine unless he has been there five years he wont easily get citizenship. Bingo. He has at least 3 more years to go to even be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KisLas Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 On what grounds can we get a work permit for him ? Work permits are there for a good reason (in a United Kingdom work force as a whole sort of way) so they cant just be shoved to one side because we fancy a player. I believe however, if it offers you some hope, that he's not far away from qualifying for Lithuanian citizenship due to the time he has resided there.(perhaps thats what we are waiting for and why he is still there), in which case he would not need a work permit but would probably have to come on loan to keep some semblance of ties with Lithuania. See above post. Miles away from a citizenship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy.C Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 His only argument to get a permit would be to 'improve the standard' of the SPL. Pretty tricky and vague thing to argue. In saying that, coming from Brazil could perhaps even work in his favor as it is a unnaturally difficult country to get international recognition for. Pretty sure a panel would understand that. Does he have any outstanding achievements in Lithuania? I'd bet that Obua being South African Player of the Year helped his case a good bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h-e-a-r-t-s Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 He has to have played over 75% of games for his country... he is Brazilian... ie. feckin nae chance. to successfully appeal you must prove to the panel that the player would: - feature regularly, - is better than what you have, - and would enhance the quality of the team and therefore the league he would be playing in. That's pretty much my summary of the legistlation i read earlier in the week. The 75% thing gives an automatic permit but many are gained through appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie White Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 The brainwashing on this site is so sad now. If it plays for Kaunas and looks even a quarter good let's take it. Vlad's thinking is insidiously invading some people's thinking to the extent that we'll be holidaying in submarines soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Can't honestly say i was that impressed with either Ledesma or Mendy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Bingo. He has at least 3 more years to go to even be considered. Would the Lithuanian FA not be tempted to press for his nationalisation, given the number of Brazilians who already play for European nations? (Eduardo Da Silva, Deco, etc) I reckon Hearts should try to appeal for a WP for Ledesma, he is easily SPL standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergent garcia Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 I remember Kislas saying they are very strict on handing out citizenship in Lithuania, so I imagine unless he has been there five years he wont easily get citizenship. he is last years player of the year in lithuania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.