A new start? What is it we want?

[Commander Harris]

All the noises coming from Tynecastle seem to indicate a definite change in policy, or perhaps more accurately a tacit acknowledgement of a change in policy that has been coming into effect for some time.

 

It looks like we will be run more like a conventional footballing business, living within our means with tighter budgets and a more proportionate wage bill for our turnover. This will, of course, mean that it is unlikely we will be signing many high quality players and may mean that we go into the following season with much the same squad as last time, with the addition of some promotions from the youth ranks. (hopefully not rank youths!)

 

As well as this change on the business side we have the introduction of a manager, who while I acknowledge that a full judgement on him or his level of control cannot yet be made, shows positive signs that he might actually be a compotent manager that will be able to get the best out of the players we have.

 

I have heard it said before that if Romanov had come in after CPR and gone straight to this kind of model, given the situation that we were in this would have been acceptable and we would have been happy being a mid-table club on a more secure footing.

 

My question is this, if there is a change in policy to a more financially stable grounding, reliant on the progress of our youth etc, coupled with a competent manager are we as Hearts fans going to accept being a decent mid-table club or will we always be demmanding more, more spending, bigger players etc.

 

on the other hand, is this a false dichotomy? IS there a third way? What would that alternative look like?

 

I hope all that isn't too rambly, I'm really just thinking out loud about our situation, I'm not trying to make points one way or the other, simply asking the questions that are in my mind.

[Cliffundo]

I think there has been a change of tact. I like it, I like shabba, I like what vlad has said.

 

I hate the way the fans are constantly reading between the lines and jumping on anything they can to have a go at the club. There already threads calling shabba a liar and a fantasist.... it's unbelievable.

 

If we do not have any new players aprt from Obua for next week...I will be happy...this team last year under achieved...this same team is still better than any other squad outwith the OF. if we can bring a couple in before the window closes then we will be in good shape.

 

our main worry is the strikers. We have **Nade..Mole..Makela..Glen..possibly Tullberg** we need work with what we have untill we get a a quality striker as the names above are not out and out strikers.

 

This season will be a more enjoyable season... I liked what I seen against hull....I could see what we are trying.. it never came off ...but the idea was good and the passing was crisp at times.

[shaun.lawson]

All the noises coming from Tynecastle seem to indicate a definite change in policy, or perhaps more accurately a tacit acknowledgement of a change in policy that has been coming into effect for some time.

 

It looks like we will be run more like a conventional footballing business, living within our means with tighter budgets and a more proportionate wage bill for our turnover. This will, of course, mean that it is unlikely we will be signing many high quality players and may mean that we go into the following season with much the same squad as last time, with the addition of some promotions from the youth ranks. (hopefully not rank youths!)

 

As well as this change on the business side we have the introduction of a manager, who while I acknowledge that a full judgement on him or his level of control cannot yet be made, shows positive signs that he might actually be a compotent manager that will be able to get the best out of the players we have.

 

I have heard it said before that if Romanov had come in after CPR and gone straight to this kind of model, given the situation that we were in this would have been acceptable and we would have been happy being a mid-table club on a more secure footing.

 

My question is this, if there is a change in policy to a more financially stable grounding, reliant on the progress of our youth etc, coupled with a competent manager are we as Hearts fans going to accept being a decent mid-table club or will we always be demmanding more, more spending, bigger players etc.

 

on the other hand, is this a false dichotomy? IS there a third way? What would that alternative look like?

 

I hope all that isn't too rambly, I'm really just thinking out loud about our situation, I'm not trying to make points one way or the other, simply asking the questions that are in my mind.

 

Good, thought-provoking post, CH. I agree with most of it too: and certainly, will be delighted if we're now, at long last, to live within our means, focusing on youth and not getting ideas above our station. But the difficulty lies in striking a balance. Hearts are one of Scotland's Big Five, and as such, should never finish below 5th spot, which in itself isn't normally regarded as acceptable. Given last season was totally unacceptable, barely strengthening at all runs the risk of us being almost as bad again, leading to fans feeling disenchanted, and ST sales and gates falling: all of which would be very bad for business.

 

To draw a parallel: another poster on here frequently points out that, while we were supposed to be making swingeing cuts under Levein, the reality was all our rivals were cutting back a lot more, and our debt rising very rapidly, to the point where we almost ended up selling our home. But the point I think he misses is, despite consecutive 3rd place finishes, our gates fell significantly - so if the club had cut back much more, there's every chance we'd have done a lot worse on the pitch and gates would've been even lower, meaning an even bigger loss!

 

It's very tricky: not just for us, but all clubs outside the OF. And if I'm honest, I don't think Hearts fans will stomach a long-term acknowledgement that 3rd is all we can aim for anyway - in which case, more fool us for seemingly never learning our lesson. But at this point, we are short of the raw materials needed for that bare minimum top 5 finish: meaning signings have to be in order, just to get us back in the race before we look to build while living within our means in future months and years.

[davieholt]

"I have heard it said before that if Romanov had come in after CPR and gone straight to this kind of model, given the situation that we were in this would have been acceptable and we would have been happy being a mid-table club on a more secure footing."

 

I agree entirely with this. The problem was that Romanov got carried away with his new toy and gave us expectations which could never be sustainable with Hearts existing levels of turnover.

 

In time, with a new stand and corporate facilities we could regularly compete for 'best of the rest' and the occasional 2nd or even top if either or both of the ugly sisters have a poor season like 1986.

[Pants Shaton]

We are in a position where we could almost guarantee 3rd place on a regular basis without compromising the future of the club - all it requires is a competent manager (and Shabba may fit the bill) and a few judicious moves in the transfer market.

 

Regularly qualifying for the UEFA group stages would bring massive financial benefits.

 

The problem is that regular 3rd place finishes don't fire the imagination of the fans. The average attendances during the Levein/Jefferies era attest to that. The success of 2005/2006 has sustained high season ticket sales over 2 dreadful seasons and, even now, those have reached higher levels than following our cup win in 1998.

 

I still believe that if the correct infra-structure is in place and the stadium redevelopment proceeds, we can build a challenge to the OF again. These things can't happen overnight, and more likely than not, Romanov will not deliver.

 

If we did challenge the Old Firm over a sustained period - we could easily fill a 25,000 capacity stadium; success begets success. Is it possible to get to that position? It's not impossible.

[Coco]

I would like the club to show more respect to the fans.

 

No More Lies

[Pants Shaton]

"I have heard it said before that if Romanov had come in after CPR and gone straight to this kind of model, given the situation that we were in this would have been acceptable and we would have been happy being a mid-table club on a more secure footing."

 

I agree entirely with this. The problem was that Romanov got carried away with his new toy and gave us expectations which could never be sustainable with Hearts existing levels of turnover.

 

In time, with a new stand and corporate facilities we could regularly compete for 'best of the rest' and the occasional 2nd or even top if either or both of the ugly sisters have a poor season like 1986.

 

I agree with that - if I really believed that the SPL trophy will have only Rangers or Celtic inscribed upon it for the next 50 years it would be deeply depressing.

 

As for Romanov getting carried away: I'm not so sure. All his grand promises and gestures stopped the day after he gained full control. Coincidence?

[shaun.lawson]

We are in a position where we could almost guarantee 3rd place on a regular basis without compromising the future of the club - all it requires is a competent manager (and Shabba may fit the bill) and a few judicious moves in the transfer market.

 

Regularly qualifying for the UEFA group stages would bring massive financial benefits.

 

The problem is that regular 3rd place finishes don't fire the imagination of the fans. The average attendances during the Levein/Jefferies era attest to that. The success of 2005/2006 has sustained high season ticket sales over 2 dreadful seasons and, even now, those have reached higher levels than following our cup win in 1998.

 

I still believe that if the correct infra-structure is in place and the stadium redevelopment proceeds, we can build a challenge to the OF again. These things can't happen overnight, and more likely than not, Romanov will not deliver.

 

We'd still lose money though: and why should Romanov, or any manager for that matter, be prepared to accept this? On the UEFA groups point: true, but the trouble is, I don't think it's just a case of 3rd place not firing the imagination of the fans. Especially in an age when the Champions League is regarded as the be-all and end-all, it doesn't exactly inspire players either: once you've achieved something in life, you want to get better and go further. But financial reality makes that practically impossible: meaning they leave, and we have to start again from scratch, enduring an inevitable transitional period before rising back to 3rd again.

 

That was the Jefferies and post-Jefferies period in a nutshell, and I don't think all that much has changed since, to be honest. Bear in mind too that, while we are the third biggest club, at no point in the modern era have we actually finished in the top 3 without spending more money than we were taking in. Which doesn't say a lot for our capabilities, really.

[Commander Harris]

I would like the club to show more respect to the fans.

 

No More Lies

I'd agree, and I think that is part of what I was asking. i.e. if the club is upfront and honest about a change in direction and told us directly what I believe they have been hinting at would it be easier to accept it, even if it might go against our natural inclination to want success, regardless of the cost?

[bistokid]

There is a third way, which involves a good scouting network, pushing the boat out for players who have good sell on value, and trying to pick up the best youngsters possible. Smaller clubs ran prudently with a clear vision and ethos can compete and grow through time rather than throwing money at it.

[shaun.lawson]

I agree with that - if I really believed that the SPL trophy will have only Rangers or Celtic inscribed upon it for the next 50 years it would be deeply depressing.

 

As for Romanov getting carried away: I'm not so sure. All his grand promises and gestures stopped the day after he gained full control. Coincidence?

 

It won't. It'll have the names of Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee United and others inscribed on it in that time - because the OF will have buggered off to a Super League! It's then, actually, that we may have a real opportunity: the chance to become the most successful club, and maybe regularly qualify for some sort of European competition within what remains. If Rosenborg, for instance, could've done so well in the CL for so long, there's nothing to stop us doing something similar - but more than likely, only when the Glasgow two have left for pastures new.

[Pants Shaton]

It won't. It'll have the names of Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee United and others inscribed on it in that time - because the OF will have buggered off to a Super League! It's then, actually, that we may have a real opportunity: the chance to become the most successful club, and maybe regularly qualify for some sort of European competition within what remains. If Rosenborg, for instance, could've done so well in the CL for so long, there's nothing to stop us doing something similar - but more than likely, only when the Glasgow two have left for pastures new.

 

I agree.

 

It would afford an opportunity to become the dominant club and fulfill the potential which undoubtedly exists.

 

For all the criticism of 'plastic' American sports, their structures encourage competition and prevent the development of unassailable elites. The protectionist football model, especially since the CL, promotes quite the opposite.

[Commander Harris]

There is a third way, which involves a good scouting network, pushing the boat out for players who have good sell on value, and trying to pick up the best youngsters possible. Smaller clubs ran prudently with a clear vision and ethos can compete and grow through time rather than throwing money at it.

I definitely agree that a good scouting network is key for bringing in high quality players on reasonable terms.

 

I'm not so sure how I feel about speculating to accumulate on a player with a good sell on value. While this should mean at least a return on our investment there is no guarantee that there will be and we also have to take into account the wages that such a player would expect. How healthy is it to have a player or two on significantly more money than the rest of the squad?

[davieholt]

There is a third way, which involves a good scouting network, pushing the boat out for players who have good sell on value, and trying to pick up the best youngsters possible. Smaller clubs ran prudently with a clear vision and ethos can compete and grow through time rather than throwing money at it.

 

I believe that this approach is precisely what Vlad was trying to follow. He DID splash out on players in the first season - with mixed results. He is actively advocating bringing on the youngsters and Csaba seems content with this but, like you, he wants the quality of scouting to be higher.

[redjambo]

I agree.

 

It would afford an opportunity to become the dominant club and fulfill the potential which undoubtedly exists.

 

For all the criticism of 'plastic' American sports, their structures encourage competition and prevent the development of unassailable elites. The protectionist football model, especially since the CL, promotes quite the opposite.

 

Yup, but I still prefer our "open" model. I've always found in strange that the land of the free should be so interfering in its team sports. Unassailable elites are not always unassailable and it's fun to see them beaten when it does happen. It's also nice to see high quality football played when some of the best players in the world can play for one team, which our system allows.

[Pants Shaton]

I believe that this approach is precisely what Vlad was trying to follow. He DID splash out on players in the first season - with mixed results. He is actively advocating bringing on the youngsters and Csaba seems content with this but, like you, he wants the quality of scouting to be higher.

 

Scottish Cup and 2nd place in the league - GOOD RESULT

 

Buying Goncalves, Makela & Beslija (all Romanov picks because we didn't have a real manager) - BAD RESULT

[shaun.lawson]

I agree.

 

It would afford an opportunity to become the dominant club and fulfill the potential which undoubtedly exists.

 

For all the criticism of 'plastic' American sports, their structures encourage competition and prevent the development of unassailable elites. The protectionist football model, especially since the CL, promotes quite the opposite.

 

Indeed. But of course, they only have themselves to compete with, and no relegation either: here, any salary cap or draft system wouldn't work unless it was implemented across Europe, which I just can't envisage the wealthiest clubs ever accepting.

 

It's very frustrating. Celtic and Rangers are historical freaks: the products of migration, demographics, religion and politics. You wouldn't normally expect a nation of only 6 million to contain two such massive clubs - and if they hadn't come into being in the first place, who knows how far we could've gone, and how vibrant the Scottish footballing scene can be? As it is, their very dominance means, once a Super League happens, there'd be a huge danger of what remained having no real credibility, and receiving no media coverage: meaning the uglies would effectively still be screwing us over even having left!

 

I'd like to think, though, that the inherent interest in and passion for football in Scotland would mean an OF-less league would ultimately succeed, albeit after a few years of short, sharp economic shock.

[bistokid]

I definitely agree that a good scouting network is key for bringing in high quality players on reasonable terms.

 

I'm not so sure how I feel about speculating to accumulate on a player with a good sell on value. While this should mean at least a return on our investment there is no guarantee that there will be and we also have to take into account the wages that such a player would expect. How healthy is it to have a player or two on significantly more money than the rest of the squad?

 

Thats a good point, it is clear that a significant difference between players wages is probably counter productive to team moral. However, if a player is contributing significantly such as Craig Gordon, Paul Hartley before they left who where on bigger contracts then its easier to accept. If you've got the likes of Pinilla, Nade and to an extent Kingston earning 4 times as much and not putting in the same effort then thats when problems arise. What we are fortunate in regarding Romanov is that from time to time he can take the hit financially to speculate to accumulate.

[shaun.lawson]

Yup, but I still prefer our "open" model. I've always found in strange that the land of the free should be so interfering in its team sports. Unassailable elites are not always unassailable and it's fun to see them beaten when it does happen. It's also nice to see high quality football played when some of the best players in the world can play for one team, which our system allows.

 

When has it happened within any of the major European leagues since football's new commercial age was born, and especially, since first Bosman in 1995, and then the expansion of the CL in 1999?

[Commander Harris]

Thats a good point, it is clear that a significant difference between players wages is probably counter productive to team moral. However, if a player is contributing significantly such as Craig Gordon, Paul Hartley before they left who where on bigger contracts then its easier to accept. If you've got the likes of Pinilla, Nade and to an extent Kingston earning 4 times as much and not putting in the same effort then thats when problems arise. What we are fortunate in regarding Romanov is that from time to time he can take the hit financially to speculate to accumulate.

indeed. And it was only through being able to pay Gordon a much higher wage that we were able to hold onto him for longer and ultimately get a much higher transfer fee. I suppose like everything it is about balance, like you say overpaying players on reputation and the possibility of a sale could be counterproductive, paying our best players the wage they deserve for their performance is common sense.

[Francis Albert]

I'd like to think, though, that the inherent interest in and passion for football in Scotland would mean an OF-less league would ultimately succeed, albeit after a few years of short, sharp economic shock.

 

The extent to which clubs are dependent on the OF is much less than it was when, for example, they attracted 30000 plus crowds to Tynecastle when we were averaging 8000. I think the economic shock to Scottish football would be small compared to the psychological shock OF fans would suffer by being also-rans in a European super-league. A customary bottom half position in a European super-league would see lots of empty seats at Ibrox and Parkhead before very long.

[shaun.lawson]

The extent to which clubs are dependent on the OF is much less than it was when, for example, they attracted 30000 plus crowds to Tynecastle when we were averaging 8000. I think the economic shock to Scottish football would be small compared to the psychological shock OF fans would suffer by being also-rans in a European super-league. A customary bottom half position in a European super-league would see lots of empty seats at Ibrox and Parkhead before very long.

 

Yes - but the concern is that non-OF clubs are able to sign the calibre of player they currently do (and hardly world beaters at that) because of Setanta's money and the OF inflating their average gates. Take that away (especially TV money), and we could be looking at very low standard players indeed.

 

It'd also depend on whether the Super League, as I envisage it will, had promotion and relegation, and about three divisions, say, in which case the OF would find their level. And at some stage, given their huge worldwide fanbase, Celtic could probably aspire (with the millions such a league would bring them) to doing something significant within the top flight of such a structure.

[Pants Shaton]

Thats a good point, it is clear that a significant difference between players wages is probably counter productive to team moral. However, if a player is contributing significantly such as Craig Gordon, Paul Hartley before they left who where on bigger contracts then its easier to accept. If you've got the likes of Pinilla, Nade and to an extent Kingston earning 4 times as much and not putting in the same effort then thats when problems arise. What we are fortunate in regarding Romanov is that from time to time he can take the hit financially to speculate to accumulate.

 

Until the balance of power shifts back towards clubs then we will continue to see abominations like Beslija and Nade. Pay should be primarily performance and appearance related with a far smaller basic salary. If that were the case Nade would weigh 12st and the Bosnian weasel would end his love affair with the physiotherapist.

[1874robbo]

I for one am glad that we seem to be tightening our spending but the money Vlad has brought in on transfers in the past 2 years i would have liked to have seen a bit of it spent on new recruits and not solely on compensation packages for disgruntled ex employees.

[redjambo]

Indeed. But of course, they only have themselves to compete with, and no relegation either: here, any salary cap or draft system wouldn't work unless it was implemented across Europe, which I just can't envisage the wealthiest clubs ever accepting.

 

It's very frustrating. Celtic and Rangers are historical freaks: the products of migration, demographics, religion and politics. You wouldn't normally expect a nation of only 6 million to contain two such massive clubs - and if they hadn't come into being in the first place, who knows how far we could've gone, and how vibrant the Scottish footballing scene can be? As it is, their very dominance means, once a Super League happens, there'd be a huge danger of what remained having no real credibility, and receiving no media coverage: meaning the uglies would effectively still be screwing us over even having left!

 

I'd like to think, though, that the inherent interest in and passion for football in Scotland would mean an OF-less league would ultimately succeed, albeit after a few years of short, sharp economic shock.

 

Yes, a bit like the Swiss league. A country roughly the same size, population-wise, and whose teams just excel in the Europe. I hate to say it, but the fact that the OF are so well-supported, and can attract such good players, nourishes the rest of Scottish football. Although I hate them with a passion, they're good for football in this country. We just have to ensure that the playing field (rules, referees etc) stays level for OF and non-OF teams.

[bistokid]

Until the balance of power shifts back towards clubs then we will continue to see abominations like Beslija and Nade. Pay should be primarily performance and appearance related with a far smaller basic salary. If that were the case Nade would weigh 12st and the Bosnian weasel would end his love affair with the physiotherapist.

 

Absolutley, pay should be more performance related. We kind of got ourselves in these position with players because the way the club was being run. Hopefully now that we have a manager in place who is allowed to run the footballing sides of things properly we might not have to throw money at players and they may actually view a move to Hearts as a good career move above anything else.

[Ben Dover]

Whilst a Hearts team residing outside the top 3 really ought to be deemed unacceptable, I think we would be best setting aside these targets for now and just concentrate on the task of getting ourselves back as a credible club !

[redjambo]

When has it happened within any of the major European leagues since football's new commercial age was born, and especially, since first Bosman in 1995, and then the expansion of the CL in 1999?

 

Ok, let's take the 2002-2003 CL group stage as one example. In group A, Auxerre beat Arsenal in London. In group B, Basel got through at the expense of Liverpool. In Group G, Bayern came bottom. Three huge clubs put in their place (temporarily of course).

[Charlie-Brown]

The biggest clubs in the biggest leagues got the deal they wanted from UEFA with the recent changes to the Champions league and UEFA Cup so any proposed breakaways are probably off the table for a decade at least, there is no real appetitie for the big english, spanish, italian or german teams to leave their leagues - champions league crowds apart from knock out games are lower than those agaisnt their traditional own league rivals.

 

The reality facing the Old Firm as well as the top Dutch, French, Portuguese teams etc is that in reality they are now feeder clubs for teams in the big leagues - they are 2nd tier with the giant clubs at the top of the tree....the sale of AHutton, C.Gordon, Petrov proved that any EPL team can take any SPL player if their will is strong enough.

 

The financial reality also facing the Old Firm is that top championship clubs are competing on almost even terms in terms of transfer fees & wages they can afford to pay.

 

UEFA will never willingly permit cross-border leagues in my opinion as it would signal the end of national football as we know it.

[shaun.lawson]

Ok, let's take the 2002-2003 CL group stage as one example. In group A, Auxerre beat Arsenal in London. In group B, Basel got through at the expense of Liverpool. In Group G, Bayern came bottom. Three huge clubs put in their place (temporarily of course).

 

It's got a whole lot more predictable since then, though - and in any case, the last 4 from that season? Milan, Juventus, Real Madrid, Inter. But the monotony of the CL group stages now is a driving force behind the desire of the elite to break away. Because if you think about it, four clubs from England, three from Italy, two or three from Spain, Bayern Munich, Porto, Lyon and PSV now reach the last 16 practically every single year: and with Celtic close to joining this group too, it's fast becoming a cartel.

[MacDonald Jardine]

I definitely agree that a good scouting network is key for bringing in high quality players on reasonable terms.

 

I'm not so sure how I feel about speculating to accumulate on a player with a good sell on value. While this should mean at least a return on our investment there is no guarantee that there will be and we also have to take into account the wages that such a player would expect. How healthy is it to have a player or two on significantly more money than the rest of the squad?

 

Bosman and now the Webster decision don't make this route appealing.

[Ben Dover]

The biggest clubs in the biggest leagues got the deal they wanted from UEFA with the recent changes to the Champions league and UEFA Cup so any proposed breakaways are probably off the table for a decade at least, there is no real appetitie for the big english, spanish, italian or german teams to leave their leagues - champions league crowds apart from knock out games are lower than those agaisnt their traditional own league rivals.

 

The reality facing the Old Firm as well as the top Dutch, French, Portuguese teams etc is that in reality they are now feeder clubs for teams in the big leagues - they are 2nd tier with the giant clubs at the top of the tree....the sale of AHutton, C.Gordon, Petrov proved that any EPL team can take any SPL player if their will is strong enough.

 

The financial reality also facing the Old Firm is that top championship clubs are competing on almost even terms in terms of transfer fees & wages they can afford to pay.

 

UEFA will never willingly permit cross-border leagues in my opinion as it would signal the end of national football as we know it.

 

If Satellite TV offers them a gazillion Euro .............then IMO there will be no borders . The national FAs wont take much to 'buy out' either, should they actually present a barrier at any stage.

[Charlie-Brown]

If Satellite TV offers them a gazillion Euro .............then IMO there will be no borders . The national FAs wont take much to 'buy out' either, should they actually present a barrier at any stage.

 

But this is the purpose of the Champions league and UEFA Cup and the expansion of both these competitions surely?

 

The Old Firm have been talking breakaways and super-leagues since the days of Souness but the reality is despite 2 decades of ambitious talking they are still no closer to leaving the SPL than they were then.....and it won't be happening any time soon.

[kevmacd]

All the noises coming from Tynecastle seem to indicate a definite change in policy, or perhaps more accurately a tacit acknowledgement of a change in policy that has been coming into effect for some time.

 

It looks like we will be run more like a conventional footballing business, living within our means with tighter budgets and a more proportionate wage bill for our turnover. This will, of course, mean that it is unlikely we will be signing many high quality players and may mean that we go into the following season with much the same squad as last time, with the addition of some promotions from the youth ranks. (hopefully not rank youths!)

 

As well as this change on the business side we have the introduction of a manager, who while I acknowledge that a full judgement on him or his level of control cannot yet be made, shows positive signs that he might actually be a compotent manager that will be able to get the best out of the players we have.

 

I have heard it said before that if Romanov had come in after CPR and gone straight to this kind of model, given the situation that we were in this would have been acceptable and we would have been happy being a mid-table club on a more secure footing.

 

My question is this, if there is a change in policy to a more financially stable grounding, reliant on the progress of our youth etc, coupled with a competent manager are we as Hearts fans going to accept being a decent mid-table club or will we always be demmanding more, more spending, bigger players etc.

 

on the other hand, is this a false dichotomy? IS there a third way? What would that alternative look like?

 

I hope all that isn't too rambly, I'm really just thinking out loud about our situation, I'm not trying to make points one way or the other, simply asking the questions that are in my mind.

 

Good post!

 

I think it depends on the money we'll be taking for players we are selling, or how long we can hang onto them.

 

What bodes well is that Vlad isn't one to accept the first offer for our younger players - holding out for ?9m for Gordon was good business, as was refusing deals for Berra and Drive and subsequently tying Driver up to a longer deal.

 

If we, eventually, are able to sell players like Driver, Berra, Copil etc. for big bucks after having had a good few seasons out of them, I think we'd all be happy if the proceeds were then re-invested in attracting the next crop of young players. Having said that, I think we'll always have to draft in a couple of more experienced professionals but hopefully, in future, we'll have the funds to maybe spend a couple of mil on a player who will make a real difference to the team.

 

The long term aim for the club must be to compete regurlarly in Europe and to, eventually, be knocking on the door of the OF. I think this is achievable...if we have the services of a decent manager!

[shaun.lawson]

But this is the purpose of the Champions league and UEFA Cup and the expansion of both these competitions surely?

 

The Old Firm have been talking breakaways and super-leagues since the days of Souness but the reality is despite 2 decades of talking they are still no closer to leaving the SPL than they were then.....and it won't be happening any time soon.

 

But the big difference is that now the rest of Europe's leagues are just as predictable as well. And while your point about CL group stage attendances is all well and good, do you honestly not think a Super League Premier Division wouldn't attract capacity crowds and huge telecommunications interest?

 

Real Madrid

Barcelona

Manchester United

Juventus

AC Milan

Bayern Munich

Liverpool

Internazionale

Chelsea

Arsenal

Valencia

FC Porto

Olympique Lyonnais

PSV Eindhoven

Celtic

AS Roma

Atletico Madrid

Ajax Amsterdam

Rangers

Olympique Marseille

 

If I were Murdoch (or Glazer, Abramovich, Calderon, Moratti or Laporta), I'd be licking my lips at that little lot!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I don't know how this thread drifted into a European Super League debate (which, I've argued before, won't happen - there's more chance of "Game 39" first!) but, irrespective of whatever else goes on I refuse to accept HMFC have met their objectives unless we qualify for Europe. With the amount of money we're spending (wasting), anything less is failure.

 

Do I expect to get there? I'm not hopeful. However, I do expect us to be a lot better with this group of players given that we now have a manager who picks the team, organises training and works on tactics. We'll see what that does for us come Saturday.

[jamboinglasgow]

I believe that this approach is precisely what Vlad was trying to follow. He DID splash out on players in the first season - with mixed results. He is actively advocating bringing on the youngsters and Csaba seems content with this but, like you, he wants the quality of scouting to be higher.

 

to me that is the best option. If Csaba can (and is given time to) develop a top class scouting network then I think it will be a great asset for Hearts. First of all (though I think it is a good system) Scotland needs to be the starting point. Picking out the best youth in the country at a young age who can develop through the youth ranks. Then the next stage is to have a scouting system which can pick out top foregin youngsters we can afford. Getting players in young will minimise the early cost while maximising the later sell on value or get players who love playing for hearts and can play for many years.

 

As you say the other thing is using scouting to pick out players that have not reached their potential at clubs but scouts reckon they could under Csaba at Hearts. These players either experenced players around 26 or 27 who could play a season or two then get sold on or young say 19-23 who have been chucked from clubs but actully have something (say a Ross McCormick type player.)

 

Now I remember reading an article about Sporting Lisborn who have one of the best youth systems in the world (they have produced in recent years Figo, Nani and of course Christiano Ronaldo.) In the article the academy director was asked what was behind their success and he replied saying two things "the best coaches and Scouts." You get the scouts to find the best youth around with the qualitys both mental and technical needed and use the coaches to develop this in these players. A different article about Barca's academy effectivly said the same thing. Same with an article about Sao Paulos academy. Scouts are key to finding the next big player. Not always the most obvious person who will be the big star. A talented scout will notice alot most people don't. If we scrapped one or two big earners and reinvested that money into getting the best scouts and coaches we can afford then I promise you we will produce quality players at hearts (old or young.)

[naeclue]

The extent to which clubs are dependent on the OF is much less than it was when, for example, they attracted 30000 plus crowds to Tynecastle when we were averaging 8000. I think the economic shock to Scottish football would be small compared to the psychological shock OF fans would suffer by being also-rans in a European super-league. A customary bottom half position in a European super-league would see lots of empty seats at Ibrox and Parkhead before very long.

 

I'd agree with that, and I can't help but notice the improvement in a lot of the Scottish teams since the loss of the Sky money - more decent young players coming through - McFadden, Gordon, Hutton, Brown et al.

 

I'd hope chairmen are looking at how we'd stand without the Old Firm, set a salary cap and some kind of balancing (draft system?) mechanism and we could get more people interested in attending and watching the game. Why wait for the Old Firm to go? Let's usher them into a super league of 2, they can play each other 30 times a season....