colinzeal Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Frail believes this squad should be challenging and Stewart says no one can argue that we have a squad good enough for the top six!! This is really beginning to annoy me, this squad has done nothing to feel that they should be regarded as so good by others!! A couple of players aside we have a squad full of very average players! This myth that we are good needs to be lost by everyone at the Club, we are not!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinzeal Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 ps I include Stewart in that average catagory, at first he looked like he would prove the doubters wrong, now i cant remember the alst good game he had! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans007 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 We are hundreds of miles from challenging and about 5 quality players away from being 3rd. Frail is deluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 If we were good enough to be in the top 6, then thats exactly where we would be is it no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans007 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 If we were good enough to be in the top 6, then thats exactly where we would be is it no? Everyone apart from Gretna could realistically claim they are top 6 class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboGraham Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 It is the same as the incredbily arrogant and stupid "too good to go down" comment that you hear whenever a big club is in trouble. The only things that measure how "good" a club is are points. At this moment only Kilmarnock and Gretna have less. Time to roll up the sleeves and fight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans007 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Frail's doing my head in too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Action speaks louder than words, as they say. Just get the feckin finger out Hearts and get some wins under the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tynie Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 [ The old adage Colin tell porkys long enough and you start to believe them. My guess is they better spout the company line or they are history. Just ask Elvis ,Burley, Hartley, Gordon, Skacel, ect. QUOTE=colinzeal;33648]Frail believes this squad should be challenging and Stewart says no one can argue that we have a squad good enough for the top six!! This is really beginning to annoy me, this squad has done nothing to feel that they should be regarded as so good by others!! A couple of players aside we have a squad full of very average players! This myth that we are good needs to be lost by everyone at the Club, we are not!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjamjolly Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 We are a manager away from claiming a top 6 spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Frail's doing my head in too Agreed. Guy is a total clown. Hes had his chance, hes never a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fine Scottish Wine Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 The league position does not lie, we are where we are because that is how good we have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad_Knows_Best Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Frail's doing my head in too Where is your team for tomorrow? Waiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrrrrrrr Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 The attitudes are a major problem From even as low as our 17's we have average players who are paid far more than the other teams and believe there hype Jamie Mole is a perfect example, there are far better talents his age in the SPL and 1st Div who are paid a fraction of his wages, yet his attitude stinks and he thinks he is rooney The management refuse to show any sort of discilpline and fail to acknowledge how bad we are People like Mikey Stewart think being a ***** make up for his ****ness Nade swaggers around in his yellow pimp mobile whilst being 5 st overweight Our club stinks from the bottom up and a kill is needed, even if it costs us money to pay people off Write this season off safe in the knowledge gretna will save us, get in levein and let him build from scratch and turn us into a sucess again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart MacD Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 There was a good squad, had the makings of a title-challenging side among the dross. But most of the class players have gone - Gordon and the Czech contingent, along with the agieng Hartley and the equally ageing, but inspiring, Pressley. Time to rebuild totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 The attitudes are a major problem From even as low as our 17's we have average players who are paid far more than the other teams and believe there hype Do you mean "their"? Jamie Mole is a perfect example, there are far better talents his age in the SPL and 1st Div who are paid a fraction of his wages, yet his attitude stinks and he thinks he is rooney Do you mean "Rooney"? The management refuse to show any sort of discilpline and fail to acknowledge how bad we are Do you mean "discipline"? People like Mikey Stewart think being a ***** make up for his ****ness Nade swaggers around in his yellow pimp mobile whilst being 5 st overweight Our club stinks from the bottom up and a kill is needed, even if it costs us money to pay people off Do you mean "cull"? Write this season off safe in the knowledge gretna will save us, get in levein and let him build from scratch and turn us into a sucess again Do you mean "Gretna" and "Levein"? Is this the same Levein who is now a DUFC Director? Fat chance! Do you mean "success"? For someone who struggles with the English language, you have little need to criticise anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrrrrrrr Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Do you mean "Gretna" and "Levein"? Is this the same Levein who is now a DUFC Director? Fat chance!Do you mean "success"? For someone who struggles with the English language, you have little need to criticise anybody. You sad little man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 You sad little man I know but not as sad as you, looking only for things and people to criticise. BTW I am not little! Go on, try to to think of just one thing about HMFC and their players that you like. You started a thread recently about Mole, plaguarised a thread from Dundee about him - or so you said - and now have a go at our U17's, Nade and Stewart. Has Mole gone to Dundee or not - or are you just a gossip? Have you actually seen the U17's? Try doing something positive like learning the English language and give the players a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Mike Stewart plays for a team that is 3rd bottom of the SPHell. He has truly found his level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsmakesomenoise Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 We are a manager away from claiming a top 6 spot. Aye next year mibbe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inside right Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Frail believes this squad should be challenging and Stewart says no one can argue that we have a squad good enough for the top six!! This is really beginning to annoy me, this squad has done nothing to feel that they should be regarded as so good by others!! A couple of players aside we have a squad full of very average players! This myth that we are good needs to be lost by everyone at the Club, we are not!! I would be more worried if the squad and management were going around saying "We're p*** and we know we are". As Frail has pointed out we have had some really good results this season we just need some consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 We are a manager away from claiming a top 6 spot. Totally agree. I actually agree with the OP AND Frail and Stewart. The problem lies with Stewart and Frail not realising how dire the situation is and not addressing the "too good to go down" attitude. That attitude has been around this club all season as we saunter into games against "lesser" sides and expect to get the three points irrespective of how we play, "why should we try? We are so much better than them." Looking at our team, we have a 'keeper that whilst not being as good as his predecessor is as good as most of the league, we have a future Scotland player in Christophe Berra, centre halves in Karipidis and Tall that would walk into about ten SPL sides, Kingston, Cesnauskis, Jonsson, Palazuelos and Driver would be first picks for ten and could be involved with the Glasgow two also. As for our strikers, only Velicka has shown the way, the Glasgow teams wouldn't, but the rest would bite our hands off for him. The squad (in general) is not great, the first team that we COULD put out, is the third best team in the league IMO. Back to the point that started this thread, we are a manager away from the top six, that is absolutely the most important thing about our club at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary G Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 The squad is good enough for a top 3 finish IMO. However they have been badly coached, are not in a good enough physical condition, and constant team rotation has many of the demotivated and performing below their true level, look at Bednar now. The buck stops with VR his paranoia has seen him appointing people he believes he can trust rather than those who have the capabilities. There are some encouraging signs he may now realise this, time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inside right Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Back to the point that started this thread, we are a manager away from the top six, that is absolutely the most important thing about our club at the moment. No he was trying to say that we should all be going around saying "We're p**h and we know we are". It makes no difference who the manager is if we don't get results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 No he was trying to say that we should all be going around saying "We're p**h and we know we are". It makes no difference who the manager is if we don't get results. Apologies, I put the wrong word, I meant "post" as opposed to "thread". As for your frankly bizarre comment, do you not think a real manager will get results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinzeal Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 I would be more worried if the squad and management were going around saying "We're p*** and we know we are". As Frail has pointed out we have had some really good results this season we just need some consistency. There is ways of saying things. Stewart could word what he says differently and still be positive. Comments like "no one can argue we have a squad good enough for the top six" is arrogant and based on what? I dont see a squad good enough for the top six!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
its where we bide Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Frail believes this squad should be challenging and Stewart says no one can argue that we have a squad good enough for the top six!! This is really beginning to annoy me, this squad has done nothing to feel that they should be regarded as so good by others!! A couple of players aside we have a squad full of very average players! This myth that we are good needs to be lost by everyone at the Club, we are not!! the more of this rubbish frail comes out with , the lower he sinks in my eyes, is it what he thinks his paymasters want to hear?? if thats his reasoning he should refuse job on 01 Feb Is it because he beleives it, if so he should leave the club yesterday sorry stevie, youre the guy spouting this rubbish not me mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 I dont see a squad good enough for the top six!! Ill ask another way then, Banks Neilson Wallace Goncalves Tall Berra Karipidis Cesnauskis Jonsson Palazuelos Stewart Kingston Driver Velicka Pinilla Makela Sixteen players on our books. Are you saying that they are not good enough for Gretna? Falkirk? ICT? Kilmarnock? St Mirren? Aberdeen? Motherwell? Hibs? Dundee United? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Deeds Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Ill ask another way then, Banks - Not good enough for Hearts Neilson - Not good enough for Hearts Wallace - Not good enough for Hearts Goncalves - Not good enough for Hearts Tall - Not good enough for Hearts Berra - Need to improve Karipidis - Not good enough for Hearts Cesnauskis - Great player Jonsson - Needs to improve Palazuelos - Not good enough for Hearts Stewart - Not good enough for Hearts Kingston - Great player Driver - Getting better all the time Velicka - Good enough Pinilla - Not good enough for Hearts Makela - Not good enough for Hearts Sixteen players on our books. Are you saying that they are not good enough for Gretna? Falkirk? ICT? Kilmarnock? St Mirren? Aberdeen? Motherwell? Hibs? Dundee United? Probably good enough for them - but good enough for us? Not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Ill ask another way then' date=' Banks - Not good enough for Hearts Neilson - Not good enough for Hearts Wallace - Not good enough for Hearts ** Goncalves - Not good enough for Hearts Tall - Not good enough for Hearts ** Berra - Need to improve Karipidis - Not good enough for Hearts ** Cesnauskis - Great player Jonsson - Needs to improve Palazuelos - Not good enough for Hearts ** Stewart - Not good enough for Hearts ** Kingston - Great player Driver - Getting better all the time Velicka - Good enough Pinilla - Not good enough for Hearts *** Makela - Not good enough for Hearts ** Sixteen players on our books. Are you saying that they are not good enough for Gretna? Falkirk? ICT? Kilmarnock? St Mirren? Aberdeen? Motherwell? Hibs? Dundee United?[/quote'] Probably good enough for them - but good enough for us? Not so sure. Okay, so we agree that the squad is good enough for the top six then? I disagree with you re those with two stars and ask how you can judge Pinilla as "not good enough" given he has played a handful of games and those that he did he performed well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groatallar Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Frail believes this squad should be challenging and Stewart says no one can argue that we have a squad good enough for the top six!! This is really beginning to annoy me, this squad has done nothing to feel that they should be regarded as so good by others!! A couple of players aside we have a squad full of very average players! This myth that we are good needs to be lost by everyone at the Club, we are not!! One word for these players DELIVER!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Deeds Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Okay, so we agree that the squad is good enough for the top six then? I disagree with you re those with two stars and ask how you can judge Pinilla as "not good enough" given he has played a handful of games and those that he did he performed well? If Pinilla wanted it, he could be the best striker in the league bar none. Our Larrson or Laudrup if you like. But if someone only plays half a dozen games in 18 months, then he is no use to us. To me, his heart is not in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 If Pinilla wanted it, he could be the best striker in the league bar none. Our Larrson or Laudrup if you like. But if someone only plays half a dozen games in 18 months, then he is no use to us. To me, his heart is not in it. I would agree with all of that. No use to us is correct, if he were to apply himself, then he would be excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genghis Khan Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 I know but not as sad as you, looking only for things and people to criticise. BTW I am not little!Go on, try to to think of just one thing about HMFC and their players that you like. You started a thread recently about Mole, plaguarised a thread from Dundee about him - or so you said - and now have a go at our U17's, Nade and Stewart. Has Mole gone to Dundee or not - or are you just a gossip? Have you actually seen the U17's? Try doing something positive like learning the English language and give the players a break. Well said Al - put the attention-seeking Prancer well in his place (or plaice, as he would spell it)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinzeal Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 Ill ask another way then, Banks-as average as any other keeper in the League Neilson- If i was the manager of Gretna i wouldn't want him. Wallace- Done nothing to be regarded as anything decent. Goncalves- A disaster waiting to happen every game Tall- Yep top six player Berra- Jurys out, doesn't look very good this season Karipidis- Not had a long enough run of games to judge Cesnauskis- Yep top six quality Jonsson- yep top six quality Palazuelos-yep top six quality Stewart- Not convinced Kingston-Yep top six quality Driver- Very inconsistant, on his dya he is good. Im sure that can be said about players at other poor teams. Velicka- Yep top six quality Pinilla- irrelevant Makela- Absolutely not top six quality Sixteen players on our books. Are you saying that they are not good enough for Gretna? Falkirk? ICT? Kilmarnock? St Mirren? Aberdeen? Motherwell? Hibs? Dundee United? Out of your 16 i see 6 players which will be better than the players at your mentioned Clubs, i also see players that are worse than players at these other Clubs. We have a some good players in a very poor squad, i think the elevated status we got when we finished 2nd makes people think that we have player sof a certain quality, almost none of them players are left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 For someone who struggles with the English language, you have little need to criticise anybody. Get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 I know but not as sad as you, looking only for things and people to criticise. BTW I am not little!Go on, try to to think of just one thing about HMFC and their players that you like. You started a thread recently about Mole, plaguarised a thread from Dundee about him - or so you said - and now have a go at our U17's, Nade and Stewart. Has Mole gone to Dundee or not - or are you just a gossip? Have you actually seen the U17's? Try doing something positive like learning the English language and give the players a break. what a muppet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Probably good enough for them - but good enough for us? Not so sure. I am actually gobsmacked at your opinions. Ruben isn't good enough for Hearts? Just how long have you been watching us for exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 what a muppet. Ah, the twin speaks. Another negative pillock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Ah, the twin speaks. Another negative pillock. Two or more people thinking you talk total rubbish doesn't make them twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 what a muppet. You still avoiding the abuse JR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Totally agree. I actually agree with the OP AND Frail and Stewart. The problem lies with Stewart and Frail not realising how dire the situation is and not addressing the "too good to go down" attitude. That attitude has been around this club all season as we saunter into games against "lesser" sides and expect to get the three points irrespective of how we play, "why should we try? We are so much better than them." Looking at our team, we have a 'keeper that whilst not being as good as his predecessor is as good as most of the league, we have a future Scotland player in Christophe Berra, centre halves in Karipidis and Tall that would walk into about ten SPL sides, Kingston, Cesnauskis, Jonsson, Palazuelos and Driver would be first picks for ten and could be involved with the Glasgow two also. As for our strikers, only Velicka has shown the way, the Glasgow teams wouldn't, but the rest would bite our hands off for him. The squad (in general) is not great, the first team that we COULD put out, is the third best team in the league IMO. Back to the point that started this thread, we are a manager away from the top six, that is absolutely the most important thing about our club at the moment. I'm generally onside with most of the things you say but when looking at the quality even individually, I'm not sure this is really the case. Like all Jambos I've been battered black and blue, and the energy level jusn't there anymore to go through the whole team in great detail- but let's just pick your/our first player. 'Is as good as' - but not better than most. Gordon was the best, Niemi was the best, Rousset only out done by Goram, Smith wasn't far off the best either and never much out of the top 3. Outwith Makalamby and our other one's, I think every other keeper in the league could do as comparible a job as Banks, indeed if not better. Most are also significantly younger and naturally, with better potential. As for the other players you mention, I think they would all appear to have the traits of being good players in a good attacking team. Then again their deficiencies (Tall's/Karapidis positional sense, Kingston/Palazuelos day dreaming when their marker moves, Cesnauskis' crossing, Jonnson constantly get caught in possession (due to lack of movement elsewhere), I suppose could be sorted...... WITH A BL**DY WELL HALF DECENT MANAGER. So I've condradicted myself, gone through the more players than I intended and ended up agreeing with you after all. As I'm typing this at 13.15 the energy levels aren't there to go to Aberdeen...so respect to everyone going today.....and safe journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Cant be bothered reading thread right through so someone might have already said this but: Would you rather they came out and said "We're ****e, we know we are, theres probably not much point in even going up to Pittodrie this Sat as we'll only lose anyway, lets just award the points to the Dons" FFS of course the staff and players are going to attempt to big/build themselves up and try to give an air of confidence. Thinking otherwise is plainly ridiculous, and if anyone did come out and speak the truth they'd probably be out of a job and/or hounded on here "oh my god oh my god Frail admitted how crap we are and we've no chance of getting into the top 6, get someone in with some ambition now......." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinzeal Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 Cant be bothered reading thread right through so someone might have already said this but: Would you rather they came out and said "We're ****e, we know we are, theres probably not much point in even going up to Pittodrie this Sat as we'll only lose anyway, lets just award the points to the Dons" FFS of course the staff and players are going to attempt to big/build themselves up and try to give an air of confidence. Thinking otherwise is plainly ridiculous, and if anyone did come out and speak the truth they'd probably be out of a job and/or hounded on here "oh my god oh my god Frail admitted how crap we are and we've no chance of getting into the top 6, get someone in with some ambition now......." There is ways of saying things. Say "i dont think anyone can argue that we dont have a squad good enough for the top six" is misplaced arrogance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Ill ask another way then' date=' Banks-[b']as average as any other keeper in the League[/b] A player targeted by R@ng*rs in the window, I would say that makes him a top six player. Neilson- If i was the manager of Gretna i wouldn't want him. If Gretna were offered Robbie Neilson on a free they would take him in a shot. Wallace- Done nothing to be regarded as anything decent. Fantastic talent and a promising midfielder, any team in the bottom six would love to have promising players like him. Goncalves- A disaster waiting to happen every game Hearts were offered ?1.2 Million for him, I would say that puts him above any left back in the bottom six. Tall- Yep top six player Berra- Jurys out, doesn't look very good this season Would fit in at any club in this league. Karipidis- Not had a long enough run of games to judge Same as Neilson, if we were to offer him to any of the bottom six sides they would snap him up. Cesnauskis- Yep top six quality Jonsson- yep top six quality Palazuelos-yep top six quality Stewart- Not convinced Scotland 'B' International and would walk into any team in the bottom eight of the league. Kingston-Yep top six quality Driver- Very inconsistant, on his dya he is good. Im sure that can be said about players at other poor teams. Velicka- Yep top six quality Pinilla- irrelevant Makela- Absolutely not top six quality Put him in a team and he will score, looking at the strikers that clubs like Gretna, Falkirk, St Mirren et al have, he is better than them. Sixteen players on our books. Are you saying that they are not good enough for Gretna? Falkirk? ICT? Kilmarnock? St Mirren? Aberdeen? Motherwell? Hibs? Dundee United? Out of your 16 i see 6 players which will be better than the players at your mentioned Clubs, i also see players that are worse than players at these other Clubs. We have a some good players in a very poor squad, i think the elevated status we got when we finished 2nd makes people think that we have player sof a certain quality, almost none of them players are left! I have emboldened your comments and put in red my replies. How would you define "top six quality" other than would they be a target for those sides if made available or if they are good enough to play for the bottom six? I ask as you only feel that six are good enough, one of those you do not deem good enough was the subject of a ?1.2 Million pound bid in August, one was a target for R@ng*rs just a few weeks ago, one is a current Scotland 'B' International and Wallace and Driver are good young prospects. No offence intended but if you think that Goncalves, Banks, Stewart, Wallace and Driver would not be good enough for the bottom six then I think you are bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Two or more people thinking you talk total rubbish doesn't make them twins. When it comes to rubbish you are definitely the expert - it flows freely from your keyboard and usually negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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