Zander Clark

[Lambert Simnel]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Disagree, think Kent and Rowles form has been the difference between last season and this season defensively.  Other than Shankland Kent was the standout player last season. This season so far he has missed games and been poor when playing. Rowles has missed his presence and as a result is now sitting on the sidelines.  There’s no way Kingsley and Halkett are a better bet than Kent and Rowles. 

 

I think you're right. Kent is a big miss when away, and has been shaky compared to last season when playing. The Kent from last season maybe gets us a clean sheet yesterday. Also, Cochrane was far more solid defensively than Penrice (though I do think Penrice has been the most consistent of the new lads). I honestly don't think there's a lot to choose between Zander and CG, and I'm happy enough with either of them taking the gloves.   

[Lambert Simnel]

By the way, can we at least get the misspelling in the thread title changed?  It's sloppy and a bit disrespectful, tbh.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

13 minutes ago, DS98 said:

Zander in an organised confident Hearts team like last season, he looks good. Gordon in a good Hearts team he looks like a god.

 

Gordon in a shambolic team that couldn’t defend for their lives and he looks ropey. Throw Zander back into this shitshow and I bet we’d be even worse off. 

Or we’d revert to how we were for 90% of last season. Kent Rowles Clark together patrolled and defended the box very well as a unit even tho all 3 as individuals are flawed… they build up a professional relationship and had plenty of success  

[Dennis Reynolds]

Him, Shankland, Kent and McKay are all pretty close. It's no coincidence they are all injured/dropped/not in form.

[scottg71]

1 minute ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

Him, Shankland, Kent and McKay are all pretty close. It's no coincidence they are all injured/dropped/not in form.

Yeah that’s my thoughts. 

[bb8]

1 hour ago, This is My Story Podcast said:

Sentimentality should play no part in football. When it comes to the cup games the best keeper, the in form keeper should be in goals. The idea that any keeper or player for that matter would be happy to drop out regardless of form so someone else could get a game. I don’t think thats resilience, I think Clark has every right to be aggrieved. In my opinion. 
 

This conversation is always an emotive one cause Gordon is a hero, a true Hearts legend. I hate questioning anything about the man.

 

I still think it is a question of mentality if you think Clark’s levels dropped off due to being upset for being dropped for one or two games and not maintaining the same level after the fact points to mentality. I don’t even necessarily agree with that;
 

I think you’re mistaking the drop off of form with the 10 in front of Clark or Gordon with their form. Dropped off when Europe was unofficially signed sealed and delivered as it does always.

 

 Gordon was also playing his first games of competitive first team football post-leg break. Would you expect the same rhythm and fluency from an outfield player in their first few competitive games? It’s maybe worse for a keeper cause it’s a specialised position. 

The problem with Hearts isn’t which keeper was playing it’s the mentality of 10 in front and potentially the coaching staff which began the current rot.

[vegas-voss]

1 hour ago, DG_HMFC said:

I think the Kent - Rowles partnership with Clarke behind them was the catalyst to our good defensive record. 

 

Rowles doesn't get enough credit for his defensive work imo.

And he was really good in the first game against Rangers.Why the need to change it and not build on it is one of the most baffling things and then to continue with chop change despite everything pointing towards not doing it.This Rowles can't play in a back two is nonsense he plays there for Australia and he has played well there for Hearts.Truth is he makes mistakes from time to time either in a three or a four.If anything what is getting shown is that it's Kingsley that can't play in a two.

[Chaps]

The goalkeeping position is the least of our problems right now.

 

Doesn’t even warrant a thread.

[DS98]

26 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Or we’d revert to how we were for 90% of last season. Kent Rowles Clark together patrolled and defended the box very well as a unit even tho all 3 as individuals are flawed… they build up a professional relationship and had plenty of success  

It’s an idea. 
 

I don’t think it makes a big difference. Kent’s levels have dropped off a cliff this season and has sold a couple of goals. Rowles would still be his usual fantastic one week, awful the next. Think the big thing is just find a settled back 4 then play the best keeper. 

[tian447]

I don't understand how people can't take the maroon tinted glasses off and realise that a keeper in his 40s is not the best move for us going forward. 

 

He's had his time, he's been fantastic, but unfortunately his weaknesses and errors are being exposed more and more.  Where do you draw the line? When he's 42?  45?  50?  People will say the last one is ridiculous, but it's no more ridiculous than a 40+ year old being the first choice keeper for a squad (and potentially a whole country). 

 

Clark is the way forward for me. We realistically could get another decade out of him. 

[This is My Story Podcast]

21 minutes ago, bb8 said:

 

I still think it is a question of mentality if you think Clark’s levels dropped off due to being upset for being dropped for one or two games and not maintaining the same level after the fact points to mentality. I don’t even necessarily agree with that;
 

I think you’re mistaking the drop off of form with the 10 in front of Clark or Gordon with their form. Dropped off when Europe was unofficially signed sealed and delivered as it does always.

 

 Gordon was also playing his first games of competitive first team football post-leg break. Would you expect the same rhythm and fluency from an outfield player in their first few competitive games? It’s maybe worse for a keeper cause it’s a specialised position. 

The problem with Hearts isn’t which keeper was playing it’s the mentality of 10 in front and potentially the coaching staff which began the current rot.

Don’t disagree about the 10 in front, absolutely valid points. 
 

On the keeper front. Everything you said is valid as well about the keepers but Gordon is 41 heading to 42. Clark has played 68 competitive games for Hearts and has better clean sheet stats and a better win ratio than Gordon’s last 68 games for Hearts. It’s clear to anyone watching that Gordon isn’t the keeper he was. His distribution causes huge turn overs, puts us back under pressure. He barely ever comes for a cross or a set play. Puts those in front of him under huge pressure. There is absolute no doubt that he is still a world class shot stopper, a better shot stopper than Clark. But the overall package, understandably at his age, isn’t what it once was and I think the long term future is with Clark. 
 

I also agree about the coaching. The team look like strangers come 3pm on Saturdays. 
 

All just my opinion of course. 

[boag1874]

I’m not for a second pinning all blame on Gordon for the shambolic defensive record we have, the whole team needs to look at themselves there particularly some senior players who should be doing way better but for me he is a backup keeper & a mentor to the others behind the scenes now. There’s no shame in that & it’s not a slight on the legend’s career at all but he’s right at the tail of his career now & that’s a number of goals conceded so far this season that he should be doing better at, yesterday adding one more to the list.

I know it’s sacrilegious to a lot of fans to say anything negative about probably the most beloved Hearts player of the last 40 odd years outside of Robbo & Skacel but we need to take the nostalgia glasses off here. If that was Clark making these errors he’d be getting absolutely crucified, it’s not acceptable whether you’re a club legend or not. It’s not 2021/22 any more, he’s not been at his best or even close, yes he’s made some really good saves but if he’s following good saves up with errors that cost us goals then it totally negates them. 
 

Make the call & put the man who EARNED those gloves back in the net.

[colinmorewasgash]

I mentioned this yesterday that I was surprised nobody mentioned gordon in goals, and what is difference defensively, think clark is now better of the two and defence has been worse since craig came back and I love big craig but he isnt inspiring confidence his footwork has never been the best and this constant pass backing isnt helping. But managers tactics and player picks are horrendous.

[DS98]

13 minutes ago, tian447 said:

I don't understand how people can't take the maroon tinted glasses off and realise that a keeper in his 40s is not the best move for us going forward. 

 

He's had his time, he's been fantastic, but unfortunately his weaknesses and errors are being exposed more and more.  Where do you draw the line? When he's 42?  45?  50?  People will say the last one is ridiculous, but it's no more ridiculous than a 40+ year old being the first choice keeper for a squad (and potentially a whole country). 

 

Clark is the way forward for me. We realistically could get another decade out of him. 

A decade???

 

Clark is 32. He has another 2/3 years tops playing at this level. He really should be at his peak right now and if this is his peak I don’t want him anywhere near a Hearts team on his decline. 

[FarmerTweedy]

3 hours ago, Walter Bishop said:

For me it’s no coincidence the defence has been terrible since Clark was dropped to the bench. Last season we had one of the best defensive records in the league with Clark in goals. It’s clear for any of us to see the defence is for more vulnerable now that Gordon’s back in. 
 

Another crazy decision by Naismith and co. 

Aye, cos he was rock solid against Dundee right enough!

[bb8]

28 minutes ago, This is My Story Podcast said:

Don’t disagree about the 10 in front, absolutely valid points. 
 

On the keeper front. Everything you said is valid as well about the keepers but Gordon is 41 heading to 42. Clark has played 68 competitive games for Hearts and has better clean sheet stats and a better win ratio than Gordon’s last 68 games for Hearts. It’s clear to anyone watching that Gordon isn’t the keeper he was. His distribution causes huge turn overs, puts us back under pressure. He barely ever comes for a cross or a set play. Puts those in front of him under huge pressure. There is absolute no doubt that he is still a world class shot stopper, a better shot stopper than Clark. But the overall package, understandably at his age, isn’t what it once was and I think the long term future is with Clark. 
 

I also agree about the coaching. The team look like strangers come 3pm on Saturdays. 
 

All just my opinion of course. 

I get the sentiment of what you’re saying RE: Clark is the future due to his age, I think that’s short sighted as realistically I think he’ll be looking to get away in Jan/the summer. I still don’t entirely agree that Clark has offered any more based upon his appearances this season versus Gordon. We’ve just seen less of him, think there’s a lot of recency bias. Dundee was abysmal, his distribution is equally as bad as Gordon’s. Spurs friendly in the second half, he looked rustier than the metal brackets on my shed, despite being involved in the Euros squad. Our incessant need to play out has been the Achilles heel of both keepers, neither are good with ball at their feet.
 

I think Harry Stone (rightly or wrongly) is looked at internally as the future, not Clark. 

[Tokyo Drifter]

4 hours ago, Walter Bishop said:

For me it’s no coincidence the defence has been terrible since Clark was dropped to the bench. Last season we had one of the best defensive records in the league with Clark in goals. It’s clear for any of us to see the defence is for more vulnerable now that Gordon’s back in. 
 

Another crazy decision by Naismith and co. 

Probably is time to bring him in from the cold - but remember he was dropped (I think) after the Dundee game when he did have a shocker.

[allystrachan]

So is the back injury Clark had no longer a real injury & it was just a front for dropping him? 
 

Clark went out the team due to injury, Gordon made a few good saves, all be it let a few goals in at the same time. He’s made a couple mistakes & now isn’t making the big saves. I agree nows the time to put Clark back in. However, if Clark has expressed that he doesn’t want a contract extension after this season then there’s minimal difference between both & we need to be looking for a new keeper too.  

[No Idle Talk]

I don’t agree that the reason we are shipping goals is because Craig Gordon is in goals. He could have done better with Celtic’s second goal last week and he was involved in Falkirk’s second goal but so were a few others. Other than that I don’t think any blame can really be laid at Craigy’s doorstep. The defence in front of him has hardly been solid. 

 

It will be interesting to see how the new manager handles the goalkeeping situation. My hunch is that Zander Clark will be reinstated as #1. If that happens then I think that is basically Craig Gordon’s career over as Hearts goalkeeper. 

Edited September 22 by No Idle Talk

[tartofmidlothian]

Dropped from our team and now dropped from the Scotland squad. Is he still carrying an injury?

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, tartofmidlothian said:

Dropped from our team and now dropped from the Scotland squad. Is he still carrying an injury?

Someone mentioned on the Scotland squad thread that he was offered a new contract and hasn’t played since, theres also rumours of him wanting to leave on the transfer thread and in another with his name alongside Shanland and Kent all wanting away this summer. 
I still think Gordon is a better shot stopper and that both have the same problem when dealing with kickouts, crosses and commanding their box. 
Both are out of contract soon and you would imagine the new manager may well want a new number 1.

[WT Laurie]

Never won a game since Gordon came back . Ridiculous decision to drop Clark . 

[Ally]

4 minutes ago, WT Laurie said:

Never won a game since Gordon came back . Ridiculous decision to drop Clark . 

We've also never won a game with Boateng. Best was his few mins v Rangers. Every other game we've lost.

[Ally]

I love CG, but ZC should be playing for us atm.

[PapaShango]

5 minutes ago, WT Laurie said:

Never won a game since Gordon came back . Ridiculous decision to drop Clark . 

Did you watch Clarke's performance up at Dundee? 

[Jambof3tornado]

25 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

Did you watch Clarke's performance up at Dundee? 

I did and wanted gordon back in.....I now want zander back in. Neither is the future,let's hope we've planned for a new no1 

[RustyRightPeg]

2 hours ago, tartofmidlothian said:

Dropped from our team and now dropped from the Scotland squad. Is he still carrying an injury?

 

He was. That's why Gordon got back in, and despite Clark being fit hasn't been out since.

[Luckies1874]

39 minutes ago, WT Laurie said:

Never won a game since Gordon came back . Ridiculous decision to drop Clark . 

 

 

We've not won a game without Alex Cochrane being in the side in over a year - 30th September 2023 1-0 at Ross County!

[Bull's-eye]

From a business and sporting point of view the treatment Zander is receiving is pretty scandalous tbh.

[tiger Rudi]

On 22/09/2024 at 14:33, allystrachan said:

So is the back injury Clark had no longer a real injury & it was just a front for dropping him? 
 

Clark went out the team due to injury, Gordon made a few good saves, all be it let a few goals in at the same time. He’s made a couple mistakes & now isn’t making the big saves. I agree nows the time to put Clark back in. However, if Clark has expressed that he doesn’t want a contract extension after this season then there’s minimal difference between both & we need to be looking for a new keeper too.  

That's the deciding thing for me. There's not much to choose between them on current form. If Clark wants away, then he stays on the bench. 

(Shanks is different, he's our main goal threat and when on form nobody else in the squad can touch him).

Gordon is not the keeper he was, but we shouldn't drop him for somebody who is arguably not any better and certainly not for one that doesn't want to be here. (If that is indeed the case).

Craig still has it in him to pull off a few worldies. He can coach the next generation for years to come when he finally decides to hang up his boots. We do need a younger keeper brought in to the squad at some point, whether that's Stone, MacFarlane or AN other. 

[GavK1012]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

From a business and sporting point of view the treatment Zander is receiving is pretty scandalous tbh.

Treatment?!? Dropped ... yeah such awful conditions for him, defo scandalous 😶😶‍🌫️

[Lambert Simnel]

1 hour ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

We've not won a game without Alex Cochrane being in the side in over a year - 30th September 2023 1-0 at Ross County!

Ah. Well, he's the first name on my team sheet for Thursday then.

 

More seriously, that is a rather worrying stat. But while I rated Cochrane, I honestly don't think he's the difference between last year cruising easily to 3rd and this year cruising easily to 12th.

[feedthefox]

Clark was very unlucky to be dropped and going by the same form lines then I'd say Gordon ought to have been dropped some weeks ago.

 

I think it's too easy to get misty eyed when thinking about Gordon, he really does not move from his line these days and I think part of our panic around set pieces is that Gordon offers no command what so ever.   

[Gerd Muller]

I genuinely don't like Clark or Gordon right now. Not comfortable with either in goals. Want a new keeper next season. 

[tiger Rudi]

7 hours ago, Ally said:

We've also never won a game with Boateng. Best was his few mins v Rangers. Every other game we've lost.

Yep, a defensive two in midfield of Devlin and Grant with Dhanda in front of them and our best performance of the season. Don't think we ever used that 3, in that formation again either.

[Ally]

13 minutes ago, tiger Rudi said:

Yep, a defensive two in midfield of Devlin and Grant with Dhanda in front of them and our best performance of the season. Don't think we ever used that 3, in that formation again either.

As long as it's Grant's 1 good game in every 10, sure, that'll work.

[Carter]

7 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

From a business and sporting point of view the treatment Zander is receiving is pretty scandalous tbh.

[tiger Rudi]

1 minute ago, Ally said:

As long as it's Grant's 1 good game in every 10, sure, that'll work.

He's nowhere near as good as Beni that's for sure, but the love for Boateng is maybe a bit premature. Let's see how Beni and Boateng get along together before we decide on who offers more in a defensive role. If we carry on losing, there will be more trial and error needed to find our "perfect combo" in midfield. At least till Hoff gets back.

[Luckies1874]

49 minutes ago, Gerd Muller said:

I genuinely don't like Clark or Gordon right now. Not comfortable with either in goals. Want a new keeper next season. 

 

This would be a good outcome. Gordon to the coaching staff and a new No1 for the 2025-26 season. 

[Ally]

1 hour ago, tiger Rudi said:

He's nowhere near as good as Beni that's for sure, but the love for Boateng is maybe a bit premature. Let's see how Beni and Boateng get along together before we decide on who offers more in a defensive role. If we carry on losing, there will be more trial and error needed to find our "perfect combo" in midfield. At least till Hoff gets back.

Boateng is a jinx.

 

Build the midfield around Beni. He's a level above the rest.

[tartofmidlothian]

20 hours ago, Ally said:

I love CG, but ZC should be playing for us atm.

 

Even if CG is the best keeper for us right now, ZC is the best for the next two or three seasons or more. The only thing changing that are the claims he wants away, but I'll take them with a pinch of salt. Why would he want to go? Only reasons I can think of are his agent being aware another club wanted to give him big money or unhappiness at CG replacing him as first choice.

[tartofmidlothian]

11 hours ago, Ally said:

Boateng is a jinx.

 

Build the midfield around Beni. He's a level above the rest.

 

Didn't Naismith say when he signed Boateng that he was basically backup while Beni and the Hoff were out? I'd like to see how he does alongside Beni. I'd also like to see how Devlin does in the number 10 role instead of Grant or out of position Shankland, I reckon he'd be better used there.

[RustyRightPeg]

Just now, tartofmidlothian said:

 

Didn't Naismith say when he signed Boateng that he was basically backup while Beni and the Hoff were out? I'd like to see how he does alongside Beni. I'd also like to see how Devlin does in the number 10 role instead of Grant or out of position Shankland, I reckon he'd be better used there.

What on earth does Devlin show in a #10 role? 😂

[Chimp]

9 minutes ago, tartofmidlothian said:

 

Didn't Naismith say when he signed Boateng that he was basically backup while Beni and the Hoff were out? I'd like to see how he does alongside Beni. I'd also like to see how Devlin does in the number 10 role instead of Grant or out of position Shankland, I reckon he'd be better used there.

 

Devlin in the 10? Surely you're joking. You want the midfielder least technically gifted and attack minded to play in the position that primarily requires both of those things? 

 

If he's the answer for filling the 10 role, especially ahead of Spittal and Dhanda then we're in bigger trouble than I thought.

Edited October 2 by Chimp

[Lambert Simnel]

19 minutes ago, tartofmidlothian said:

 

Didn't Naismith say when he signed Boateng that he was basically backup while Beni and the Hoff were out? I'd like to see how he does alongside Beni. I'd also like to see how Devlin does in the number 10 role instead of Grant or out of position Shankland, I reckon he'd be better used there.

 

I love Devlin, but I don't see him as a #10. Either Spittal or Dhanda is far more likely to find an incisive pass forward. Now, I know we haven't actually tried playing either of them in a #10 position for a full game yet, but that's what I'd hope we would select rather than pushing Cammy away from the midfield battle (where he thrives) and into the chance creator role. 

[GBJambo]

Clark should be number 1. No question. Gordon can’t and won’t control his box . He needs benched pronto 

[kingantti1874]

28 minutes ago, tartofmidlothian said:

 

Even if CG is the best keeper for us right now, ZC is the best for the next two or three seasons or more. The only thing changing that are the claims he wants away, but I'll take them with a pinch of salt. Why would he want to go? Only reasons I can think of are his agent being aware another club wanted to give him big money or unhappiness at CG replacing him as first choice.

ZC isn’t intending to stay.  Pretty sure now that’s why he was dropped.  

Edited October 2 by kingantti1874

[RustyRightPeg]

16 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

Devlin in the 10? Surely you're joking. You want the midfielder least technically gifted and attack minded to play in the position that primarily requires both of those things? 

 

If he's the answer for filling the 10 role, especially ahead of Spittal and Dhanda then we're in bigger trouble than I thought.

The old cause he runs about argument is coming I feel. I could fart the ball harder than half his shots on goal. His miss on Saturday sums that up. 

[HopeDiouf]

3 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

The old cause he runs about argument is coming I feel. I could fart the ball harder than half his shots on goal. His miss on Saturday sums that up. 

From where I was sitting, he hit a controlled shot to the bottom corner.  Defender threw himself in the way to block and got lucky.  Don't think Devlin did much wrong with his finish.

[RustyRightPeg]

Just now, HopeDiouf said:

From where I was sitting, he hit a controlled shot to the bottom corner.  Defender threw himself in the way to block and got lucky.  Don't think Devlin did much wrong with his finish.

Middle of the goal. He even had time to take a touch, and go high if he wanted. The defender was already on the deck before the ball got to him.