alicante jambo Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Considering the conditions i thought he had a good game. But this post is about him sticking by his original decision not to award liedoon a penalty. It could clearly be seen that denholm never touched the player he actually put his leg across to denholm and took a dive blatant cheating. So why was the ref even called to look at it on the camera. It puts a lot of pressure on refs to go against their original call but he done the right thing yesterday its something we dont often see. Im not a lover of our officials but fair dues to him for showing hes got the balls to do right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboozy Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 8 minutes ago, alicante jambo said: Considering the conditions i thought he had a good game. But this post is about him sticking by his original decision not to award liedoon a penalty. It could clearly be seen that denholm never touched the player he actually put his leg across to denholm and took a dive blatant cheating. So why was the ref even called to look at it on the camera. It puts a lot of pressure on refs to go against their original call but he done the right thing yesterday its something we dont often see. Im not a lover of our officials but fair dues to him for showing hes got the balls to do right. Yes, it sounds like he had a good game (didn’t attend) . As you say ,well done him for sticking to his guns. There is a distinct feeling of games being refereed remotely in Scottish football by VAR and it could spoil the use of VAR in this country. Who knows,that might be the plan?😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 18 minutes ago, alicante jambo said: Considering the conditions i thought he had a good game. But this post is about him sticking by his original decision not to award liedoon a penalty. It could clearly be seen that denholm never touched the player he actually put his leg across to denholm and took a dive blatant cheating. So why was the ref even called to look at it on the camera. It puts a lot of pressure on refs to go against their original call but he done the right thing yesterday its something we dont often see. Im not a lover of our officials but fair dues to him for showing hes got the balls to do right. Just take a look at who the VAR referee was. He’s as useless at that as he was officiating in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 19 minutes ago, alicante jambo said: Considering the conditions i thought he had a good game. But this post is about him sticking by his original decision not to award liedoon a penalty. It could clearly be seen that denholm never touched the player he actually put his leg across to denholm and took a dive blatant cheating. So why was the ref even called to look at it on the camera. It puts a lot of pressure on refs to go against their original call but he done the right thing yesterday its something we dont often see. Im not a lover of our officials but fair dues to him for showing hes got the balls to do right. I've no issue with VAR encouraging refs to have another look but that literally needs to be it - it can't be undue pressure from the VAR room and I think that might be where we're running into issues, like if Collum or Beaton or another senior ref is on VAR, then a more junior ref might feel compelled to capitulate. As I understand it, Alan Muir although never getting to the same sort of level as the so called "top refs" is still a very experienced ref. Anyway, fair play to him. Shows a bit of character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deko 94 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 I was surprised as well. Good to see it happen. Have seen it a couple of times now in recent games. McFadden seemed certain it was a pen however... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 8 minutes ago, Deevers said: Just take a look at who the VAR referee was. He’s as useless at that as he was officiating in the middle. Indeed he is at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 5 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: Indeed he is at it He must have seen that there was absolutely no contact. That being the case why try to make an issue out of it and call Alan Muir to review it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam11 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 I was surprised when it wasn’t overturned but only because nearly 100% of the time, the monitor changes the referees mind. It’s not a penalty. He throws himself across Denholm, who is making every effort not to bump him, and the only contact comes on the leg when he’s on the way down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deodato Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 2 minutes ago, liam11 said: I was surprised when it wasn’t overturned but only because nearly 100% of the time, the monitor changes the referees mind. It’s not a penalty. He throws himself across Denholm, who is making every effort not to bump him, and the only contact comes on the leg when he’s on the way down. This is correct. Denholm (a) did not make contact and (b) did everything possible to avoid contact. Case closed. So pleased to see a referee (who was well positioned) stick with the original decision. Add to that, how VAR can get what's right and make it appear wrong due to the inferior angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonsgotop Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 33 minutes ago, Deevers said: Just take a look at who the VAR referee was. He’s as useless at that as he was officiating in the middle. at least he spotted the handball for our penalty which the ref missed and Vargas didn't claim for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 56 minutes ago, alicante jambo said: Considering the conditions i thought he had a good game. But this post is about him sticking by his original decision not to award liedoon a penalty. It could clearly be seen that denholm never touched the player he actually put his leg across to denholm and took a dive blatant cheating. So why was the ref even called to look at it on the camera. It puts a lot of pressure on refs to go against their original call but he done the right thing yesterday its something we dont often see. Im not a lover of our officials but fair dues to him for showing hes got the balls to do right. And then you had 🤪 Sportscene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 35 minutes ago, deko 94 said: I was surprised as well. Good to see it happen. Have seen it a couple of times now in recent games. McFadden seemed certain it was a pen however... I think this season alone Cochrame has conceded probably two penalties just like the one denied yesterday. Personally I don't like the way the rules are around the awarding of penalties nowadays. To be fair to Fraser yesterday how was he supposed to get his arm out of the way when he is trying to block the ball and so close to our player having a shot? The only way he could have avoided that would to have been to have stayed on his feet and then his Manager would probably give him a roasting for not trying to block the shot with his body. I know they said that his arm was in an unnatural position but was it? I would have been pissed off if we had conceded that penalty. I am no fan of St Mirren but I think they were treated a bit unfaily yesterday. The key to these decisions is consistency which even with VAR still doesn't seem to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicante jambo Posted April 7 Author Share Posted April 7 13 minutes ago, colinmaroon said: And then you had 🤪 Sportscene. I never seen sportscene tbh mate and dont normally watch it was something said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 5 minutes ago, wavydavy said: I think this season alone Cochrame has conceded probably two penalties just like the one denied yesterday. Personally I don't like the way the rules are around the awarding of penalties nowadays. To be fair to Fraser yesterday how was he supposed to get his arm out of the way when he is trying to block the ball and so close to our player having a shot? The only way he could have avoided that would to have been to have stayed on his feet and then his Manager would probably give him a roasting for not trying to block the shot with his body. I know they said that his arm was in an unnatural position but was it? I would have been pissed off if we had conceded that penalty. I am no fan of St Mirren but I think they were treated a bit unfaily yesterday. The key to these decisions is consistency which even with VAR still doesn't seem to happen. St Mirren? Feck them! 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Radge Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 The dive was straight out of the Martin Boyle book of blatant cheating. The only thing the ref got wrong when viewing the var replay was not booking the St Mirren player for cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Alan Muir. Fair play yesterday. he was however the VAR who awarded rangers a 90th min penalty against rangers at ibrox, and the VAR who decided Alan Forrest wasn’t fouled at home against RC costing us a pen and a red card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 3 minutes ago, Barry Radge said: The dive was straight out of the Martin Boyle book of blatant cheating. The only thing the ref got wrong when viewing the var replay was not booking the St Mirren player for cheating. Having seen the highlights on Sportscene I thought it was a penalty. Denholm is wrong side and makes contact. Soft, yes, but I’d be raging if we didn’t get that. Both McCann and McFadden, two of the most sensible pundits, thought it was a penalty too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 7 minutes ago, Thomaso said: St Mirren? Feck them! 🤣 Listen, as I said I am no fan of theirs but just used them as an example to point out the problem with the refs, var and inconsistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo61 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 1 hour ago, alicante jambo said: Considering the conditions i thought he had a good game. But this post is about him sticking by his original decision not to award liedoon a penalty. It could clearly be seen that denholm never touched the player he actually put his leg across to denholm and took a dive blatant cheating. So why was the ref even called to look at it on the camera. It puts a lot of pressure on refs to go against their original call but he done the right thing yesterday its something we dont often see. Im not a lover of our officials but fair dues to him for showing hes got the balls to do right. No yellow!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 36 minutes ago, maroonsgotop said: at least he spotted the handball for our penalty which the ref missed and Vargas didn't claim for True. The handball was pretty obvious and had to be checked. The supposed foul by Denholm though looked contrived by the St Mirren player in real time and on the TV replay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicante jambo Posted April 7 Author Share Posted April 7 14 minutes ago, Jambo61 said: No yellow!!! Im not sure if he got a yellow or not. Can the ref give a yellow after a var check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 1 hour ago, deko 94 said: I was surprised as well. Good to see it happen. Have seen it a couple of times now in recent games. McFadden seemed certain it was a pen however... McCann wasn’t asked so he probably didn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go for it 1308 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 26 minutes ago, alicante jambo said: I never seen sportscene tbh mate and dont normally watch it was something said? James McFadden said he thought it was,a pen and should have been given Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Ref was good, a rarity these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicante jambo Posted April 7 Author Share Posted April 7 21 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said: Alan Muir. Fair play yesterday. he was however the VAR who awarded rangers a 90th min penalty against rangers at ibrox, and the VAR who decided Alan Forrest wasn’t fouled at home against RC costing us a pen and a red card. If thats the one harring pulled the rangers player that was a stonewaller but regards forrest incident he got that totally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicante jambo Posted April 7 Author Share Posted April 7 1 minute ago, Go for it 1308 said: James McFadden said he thought it was,a pen and should have been given Fair enough thats his opinion but im not sure what he seen. Someone already mentioned it was right out the martin im a cheat boyle book of diving and it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Given up with them, if they make decisions that go for you then they have a decent game, the opposition will be spewin of course. All luck and zero judgement when playing anyone but the bigots in my opinion. Then it becomes orchestrated judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: McCann wasn’t asked so he probably didn’t. But shook his head at McFaddens last comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 This is what a lot of people including some former referees are saying. Referees should be allowed to check more incidents. In real time it didn't look a penalty and ref confirmed that. But maybe should check more of these sort of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 14 minutes ago, Deevers said: But shook his head at McFaddens last comment. Yeah he definitely didn’t agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go for it 1308 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 44 minutes ago, alicante jambo said: Fair enough thats his opinion but im not sure what he seen. Someone already mentioned it was right out the martin im a cheat boyle book of diving and it was. Totally agree. McFadden is normally spot on....got that one wrong tho 😳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 1 hour ago, wavydavy said: I think this season alone Cochrame has conceded probably two penalties just like the one denied yesterday. Personally I don't like the way the rules are around the awarding of penalties nowadays. To be fair to Fraser yesterday how was he supposed to get his arm out of the way when he is trying to block the ball and so close to our player having a shot? The only way he could have avoided that would to have been to have stayed on his feet and then his Manager would probably give him a roasting for not trying to block the shot with his body. I know they said that his arm was in an unnatural position but was it? I would have been pissed off if we had conceded that penalty. I am no fan of St Mirren but I think they were treated a bit unfaily yesterday. The key to these decisions is consistency which even with VAR still doesn't seem to happen. I think our penalty would have been given even before var, assuming the ref saw it. The ball was heading goal ward when the defender knocked past the post with his arm. Not in any way deliberate but a penalty none the less. For what it's worth I would have given the St Mirren penalty too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo61 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 56 minutes ago, alicante jambo said: Im not sure if he got a yellow or not. Can the ref give a yellow after a var check? No yellow.......not sure about rule but he dived/ cheated so one was due! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicante jambo Posted April 7 Author Share Posted April 7 3 minutes ago, Jambo61 said: No yellow.......not sure about rule but he dived/ cheated so one was due! Deffo mate i agree 100% dive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 (edited) 4 hours ago, alicante jambo said: I never seen sportscene tbh mate and dont normally watch it was something said? Oh, just agreeing both should have been penalties. Edited April 7 by colinmaroon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john thomas Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 2 hours ago, Go for it 1308 said: Totally agree. McFadden is normally spot on....got that one wrong tho 😳 McFadden is a good pundit but had his forwards head on there . Some would say it was clever play by SM player . Think that would be given 80% of the time . So , yes , credit to referee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Both managers would have been ready to criticise him after the final whistle. He didn't give any off them the opportunity. He had a decent game and a backbone. I'm sure some of the early Celtic tackles when they didn't get any bookings would have seen Hearts and wee team players booked for the same tackles though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CostaJambo Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Was delighted he stuck to his original decision, I wish more refs were brave enough to do it more regularly, I reckon a lot of them reverse the decision purely because they have been challenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonsgotop Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 3 hours ago, 1953 said: I think our penalty would have been given even before var, assuming the ref saw it. The ball was heading goal ward when the defender knocked past the post with his arm. Not in any way deliberate but a penalty none the less. For what it's worth I would have given the St Mirren penalty too. ref gave a corner and even Vargas didn't claim for a penalty so without VAR, no pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Looked like a pk, nah luck st mirren. Wrong side, no contact with ball and clipped the player. Got a bit lucky imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 5 hours ago, alicante jambo said: Fair enough thats his opinion but im not sure what he seen. Someone already mentioned it was right out the martin im a cheat boyle book of diving and it was. The midden player was definitely playing for a penalty by sticking his leg out and falling, as you say Bolye-esqe. More often than not, the referee is conned into giving those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex member of the SaS Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 This is the problem with VaR, we need the audio so that the VaR " ref" is not coaching the official. Get him to look again without making any comment trying to influence his decision. Give him a chance to see it again, but don't tell him it's a penalty or whatever, just ask him to take a second look. Leave the decision to the guy on the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex member of the SaS Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 4 hours ago, 1953 said: I think our penalty would have been given even before var, assuming the ref saw it. The ball was heading goal ward when the defender knocked past the post with his arm. Not in any way deliberate but a penalty none the less. For what it's worth I would have given the St Mirren penalty too. The problem with the SM penalty claim is we only saw it from behind Denholm, while the ref had a clearer view. The ref had the benefit of seeing it from in front of Denholm ( live ) and then from behind with the VaR view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Looks like Denholm may or may not have brushed him very lightly, but then he (baccus?) re-establishes contact same as that mhank at Tynecastle; he'd maybe thought he'd lost the ball but not sure, however, it didn't look on for a goal with 2 defenders, a post and a goalie to contend with So he decided to throw himself into Denholm and dive; shameless and shameful, should've been carded Muir didn't want more attention after costing us very dearly against RC, so, fair enough, he showed some cojones, hopefully dallas was just deferring to him and agreed, so it was just to demonstrate to the midden that everything was kosher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Might VAR have said he was unsure if there was sufficient contact and suggest Muir have a second look? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 (edited) 7 hours ago, wavydavy said: Listen, as I said I am no fan of theirs but just used them as an example to point out the problem with the refs, var and inconsistency. I prefer to point out the shaftings Hearts have been on the end of Dave Edited April 7 by Thomaso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDJ87 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 9 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said: Having seen the highlights on Sportscene I thought it was a penalty. Denholm is wrong side and makes contact. Soft, yes, but I’d be raging if we didn’t get that. Both McCann and McFadden, two of the most sensible pundits, thought it was a penalty too. He actually stayed silent and wasn't asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaShango Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 10 hours ago, alicante jambo said: If thats the one harring pulled the rangers player that was a stonewaller but regards forrest incident he got that totally wrong. That was Beaton not Muir that gave that one at Ibrox against Haring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 15 hours ago, Thomaso said: I prefer to point out the shaftings Hearts have been on the end of Dave There is no doubt we have but I was trying to be impartial unlike most of the ref's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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