Rick Sanchez Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Should we follow the trend? Would it give us an edge? Should we leave it as is? I was thinking about this whilst watching the Kilmarnock game, who are basically a fully coached set piece team, they can't do anything else. They had a few good chances to score from free headers despite us having everyone back. I then thought about it watching Austin MacPhee's Villa have a good few corners away at Man City. It will be interesting next season with Dhanda and Spittal swinging them in. It would be even more interesting with different routines for different opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Gordon Forrest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 3 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said: Should we follow the trend? Would it give us an edge? Should we leave it as is? I was thinking about this whilst watching the Kilmarnock game, who are basically a fully coached set piece team, they can't do anything else. They had a few good chances to score from free headers despite us having everyone back. I then thought about it watching Austin MacPhee's Villa have a good few corners away at Man City. It will be interesting next season with Dhanda and Spittal swinging them in. It would be even more interesting with different routines for different opposition. That’s a bit harsh, they also got loads of crosses into the box by playing with two wingers, it wasn’t just set pieces at all. They were a huge threat from them though and probably most vulnerable we’ve looked all season (still amazing we haven’t conceded from a corner when you consider the shambles the season before). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 That's one of Frankie Mac's duties lol! I enjoy watching set pieces now to be honest. Teams obviously put a lot of work and thought into them rather than the 1 hand front post 2 hand back post routines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Caine Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 We have a set piece policy. Hand the ball to Cochrane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 5 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said: We have a set piece policy. Hand the ball to Cochrane. Then watch him float it in for the keeper to grab and reset. Our set pieces are ****ing honking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Torrance Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 11 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said: Should we follow the trend? Would it give us an edge? Should we leave it as is? I was thinking about this whilst watching the Kilmarnock game, who are basically a fully coached set piece team, they can't do anything else. They had a few good chances to score from free headers despite us having everyone back. I then thought about it watching Austin MacPhee's Villa have a good few corners away at Man City. It will be interesting next season with Dhanda and Spittal swinging them in. It would be even more interesting with different routines for different opposition. Their only goal came from open play. You're correct though, set plays are an important part of the game and I suspect we work on them. Not sure if we can afford the luxury of a specific set piece coach, rather than it being a role that's tied in with coaching in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC01 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Get someone that can cross the ball onto the right spot. Get someone that can header a ball proper. Tell the rest of the team to move about a bit. Job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 There are plenty of ideas from EPL clubs. They don't have a copyright on a particular corner or free kick. Some moves are maybe too intricate for our players but there are simple examples we can try. Don't need a specific coach - just a coach who realises we are failing in this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordons left glove Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 We do definitely come up with set piece routines in training, but it's rare that we see it on the pitch. Vividly remember at rugby park this season when we played it to the front post to Kingsley but he kicked himself instead of the ball and decked it. Can remember some Lowry x shankland free kicks as well. None have come off this season though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 minute ago, lost in space said: There are plenty of ideas from EPL clubs. They don't have a copyright on a particular corner or free kick. Some moves are maybe too intricate for our players but there are simple examples we can try. Don't need a specific coach - just a coach who realises we are failing in this area. What annoys me is how text book ours are. Like, when we're clearly going to put the ball in. How about stick a player that can actually cross out wide, and either force them to move men out to defend, or potentially get a better angle as a result to put a dangerous ball in.. It sometimes looks like we're basically saying, how can we make this easier for you to defend? Bonus as well, if we start throwing in a lot of weird routines, the simple ones might come off because it becomes more unexpected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 A novel routine would be to stop lofting balls into the box direct from corners & free-kicks altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartsandonlyHearts Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, OTT said: Then watch him float it in for the keeper to grab and reset. Our set pieces are ****ing honking. We are really poor. Free kicks from Cochrane from outside the box usually go deep to the back post and out for a goal kick. If it’s on our right. From the left we’re slightly better. We should try a few corners where hitting the penalty spot is the goal. Ours are to close to the goalie. Kingsley is good for direct free kicks. Hopefully that continues. We have the same play from corners every game. Stack up our team and then they all run in different directions. Shankland goals against Aberdeen and Celtic from corners show we can do it. We should be getting more from Kent and Rowley though at set pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo61 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, Rick Sanchez said: Should we follow the trend? Would it give us an edge? Should we leave it as is? I was thinking about this whilst watching the Kilmarnock game, who are basically a fully coached set piece team, they can't do anything else. They had a few good chances to score from free headers despite us having everyone back. I then thought about it watching Austin MacPhee's Villa have a good few corners away at Man City. It will be interesting next season with Dhanda and Spittal swinging them in. It would be even more interesting with different routines for different opposition. It would be interesting who coaches throw ins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo61 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, OTT said: What annoys me is how text book ours are. Like, when we're clearly going to put the ball in. How about stick a player that can actually cross out wide, and either force them to move men out to defend, or potentially get a better angle as a result to put a dangerous ball in.. It sometimes looks like we're basically saying, how can we make this easier for you to defend? Bonus as well, if we start throwing in a lot of weird routines, the simple ones might come off because it becomes more unexpected. No idea why we always have everyone back at corners.....leave Forrest or Vargas up and they have to keep 2 back i.e. we are a man up at the corner! It aint rocket science! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
If carlsberg did rivals... Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, Rick Sanchez said: Should we follow the trend? Would it give us an edge? Should we leave it as is? I was thinking about this whilst watching the Kilmarnock game, who are basically a fully coached set piece team, they can't do anything else. They had a few good chances to score from free headers despite us having everyone back. I then thought about it watching Austin MacPhee's Villa have a good few corners away at Man City. It will be interesting next season with Dhanda and Spittal swinging them in. It would be even more interesting with different routines for different opposition. As pointed out Austin is doing it at Villa, when he was at Hearts, did we score more goals from set pieces prior to him arriving or since he left? I don't recall much difference tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boag1874 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said: That's one of Frankie Mac's duties lol! I enjoy watching set pieces now to be honest. Teams obviously put a lot of work and thought into them rather than the 1 hand front post 2 hand back post routines. I don't enjoy watching ours, they're honking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 3 minutes ago, boag1874 said: I don't enjoy watching ours, they're honking! You & others should voice your displeasure at this ! I haven't seen any comment any any other thread to this effect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 45 minutes ago, Jambo61 said: It would be interesting who coaches throw ins? Indeed, we've been generally terrible at them for years, not something unique to Naismith. Are they just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, Jambo61 said: No idea why we always have everyone back at corners.....leave Forrest or Vargas up and they have to keep 2 back i.e. we are a man up at the corner! It aint rocket science! Quite simply because it works (and Naismith has alluded to that). We’re the only team that hasn’t conceded from a corner this season. However, it boils my pish too as every clearance goes straight back to the opposition. And while we can point out it is working this season it most certainly didn’t last season - I think it’s more down to having Kent this season rather than having everyone back. Maybe the zonal marking too or did we do that last season too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: Quite simply because it works (and Naismith has alluded to that). We’re the only team that hasn’t conceded from a corner this season. However, it boils my pish too as every clearance goes straight back to the opposition. And while we can point out it is working this season it most certainly didn’t last season - I think it’s more down to having Kent this season rather than having everyone back. Maybe the zonal marking too or did we do that last season too? Statistically having everyone back is better. But we did that last season too so as you say Kent has made a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 We really need to improve set pieces as a goal threat imo . Dhanda and Spittal added to what we have already will hopefully do this O could see us signing a Mark DeVries type striker if we sell Shanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oda be a JT Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jambo61 said: It would be interesting who coaches throw ins? Been one of my bug bears for at least 20-odd years…we have simply never been good at them, even just simple ones in the middle of the pitch but for gods sake a bit more variation when in last third please! Edited April 5 by Oda be a JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo-Jambo Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 3 hours ago, Gordons left glove said: We do definitely come up with set piece routines in training, but it's rare that we see it on the pitch. Vividly remember at rugby park this season when we played it to the front post to Kingsley but he kicked himself instead of the ball and decked it. Can remember some Lowry x shankland free kicks as well. None have come off this season though. What's the point doing it in training and then not carrying it out on the pitch Complete waste of time really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Should be working on set pieces anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 4 hours ago, Rick Sanchez said: Should we follow the trend? Would it give us an edge? Should we leave it as is? I was thinking about this whilst watching the Kilmarnock game, who are basically a fully coached set piece team, they can't do anything else. They had a few good chances to score from free headers despite us having everyone back. I then thought about it watching Austin MacPhee's Villa have a good few corners away at Man City. It will be interesting next season with Dhanda and Spittal swinging them in. It would be even more interesting with different routines for different opposition. Surely our coaches - and players -can think up routines for themselves without the need for a specialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam11 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Can conjure up all the clever set pieces we like. Our delivery is utterly rotten and will always negate anything we try to implement. Scary how, amongst a squad of 20+ professionals, we don’t have one with a half decent delivery. Hopefully the additions of Spittal and Dhanda make this more successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordons left glove Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 34 minutes ago, Robbo-Jambo said: What's the point doing it in training and then not carrying it out on the pitch Complete waste of time really. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famous 1874 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Definitely should be looking to bring someone in for that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgieheart Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Thought our Throw-ins were decent when we had Neilson's missiles raining into the oppositions box ! Corners are definitely better than they were, Grant , Cochrane and Mckay can ping a decent baw in ! Free Kicks....Kingsley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgierulesapply88 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Statistically, short corners are more effective than in-swinging & out-swinging corners. Celtic are very poor from set pieces against, something I expect Rangers to take advantage of on Sunday albeit keeping taverner away from corners would be advantageous for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Duncan Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 5 hours ago, Horatio Caine said: We have a set piece policy. Hand the ball to Cochrane and prepare to defend a counter attack Completed that for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgierulesapply88 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 https://x.com/johnwalker_1986?t=gxd87Sw1ua56QXXQJpWBOQ&s=09 Have a look at his analysis of set pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Rudi Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Don't think our set pieces are too bad, agree they could be better. For me our main problem is the lack of quality coming in from wide areas in open play. Oda and Atkinson just don't deliver enough quality balls because they very rarely look to beat their man. Dexter looked great in his first game, but has done nowt much since in an attacking sense tbh. Forrest looks to take his man on but doesn't always deliver a telling cross. It wasn't stout defending by ourselves that stopped Kilmarnock scoring, they could and should have scored from the number of quality crosses put in from both left and right wing. On another day, we would have lost that game. Armstrong would be a great addition and the guy out on the left I think it was Kennedy, also delivered some fantastic balls into the danger area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo61 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said: Quite simply because it works (and Naismith has alluded to that). We’re the only team that hasn’t conceded from a corner this season. However, it boils my pish too as every clearance goes straight back to the opposition. And while we can point out it is working this season it most certainly didn’t last season - I think it’s more down to having Kent this season rather than having everyone back. Maybe the zonal marking too or did we do that last season too? If we are being honest we haven't been punished as we do give quite a few chances away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAlim Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Dhanda, Spittal and Penrice all take set pieces for their respective clubs I believe so hopefully the quality of deliveries will improve next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 6 hours ago, Rick Sanchez said: Should we follow the trend? Would it give us an edge? Should we leave it as is? I was thinking about this whilst watching the Kilmarnock game, who are basically a fully coached set piece team, they can't do anything else. They had a few good chances to score from free headers despite us having everyone back. I then thought about it watching Austin MacPhee's Villa have a good few corners away at Man City. It will be interesting next season with Dhanda and Spittal swinging them in. It would be even more interesting with different routines for different opposition. We had one with MacPhee. Our set pieces were dreadful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Nah, it's a nonsense fad. Pretty sure that can't be a full time gig. Set pieces are important and I'd always have though that would be part of our match plan in general not just some niche side gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 12 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: Gordon Forrest He should be sacked then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 There was a time when professional football players could think for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1977 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 20 hours ago, OTT said: Then watch him float it in for the keeper to grab and reset. Our set pieces are ****ing honking. Or hit the first defender which is a favourite of his. How bad must the rest of the squad be at taking set pieces if Cochrane’s the best we’ve got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazhearts Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 I'd like to think that some of the existing video analysis team would collate a dossier of set piece ideas from the likes of Aston Villa other premier league teams and around the world (best practice). So it shouldn't be difficult to come up with lots of good and different ideas. The success will come in choosing the right games / moments to try them out in. I suspect a set piece coach will closely study how the teams next opponents set up for set pieces and then choose four or five routines they think are likely to succeed against that set up. As others have said we could be doing this in-house already using the existing coaching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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