*** Official Ross County Vs Heart of Midlothian match day thread

[Chimp]

54 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

Rowles was the worst of our defenders in the game on Saturday. Toby got caught in two minds for their first goal but otherwise was faultless in the first half.

 

Rowles wasn't good but Toby literally cost us a goal once again. He's so error prone and a liability, he can't be trusted. Not sure why people try to continually defend him or excuse him.

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, Chimp said:

 

Rowles wasn't good but Toby literally cost us a goal once again. He's so error prone and a liability, he can't be trusted. Not sure why people try to continually defend him or excuse him.

Rowles gifted them a clearer chance than Toby did.  He got away with it cause their boy popped it over the bar with an open goal from a yard out.

[Chimp]

54 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

Id argue Rowles caused more problems, but Sibbick was the one who's error got punished.  Rowles got away with it on the day.

 

This isn't a one off error though, he's very prone to lapses in concentration and gets caught out and punished for it. If this was a rare occurrence then I'd give him slack but it isn't.  

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, Chimp said:

 

This isn't a one off error though, he's very prone to lapses in concentration and gets caught out and punished for it. If this was a rare occurrence then I'd give him slack but it isn't.  

same applies to Rowles for me.  Toby's had a few more, but he's been here a bit longer.  Rowles has thrown away numerous goals as well.

[tcjambo]

Just now, HopeDiouf said:

Rowles gifted them a clearer chance than Toby did.  He got away with it cause their boy popped it over the bar with an open goal from a yard out.

Rowles was shocking. Constantly beaten by Murray down the left side, stumbled for their second goal and failed to recognise Murray sneaking in behind him and Cochrane. He has been poor since returning from international duty. Atkinson hasn't been much better either.

[SLLP58]

15 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

I'll repeat what I said earlier, when you take 44 of a possible 60 points, you haven't been playing badly. The point of the game is to score more goals than the opponents and win as many games as possible and lose as few as possible, and when you do that consistently, you're not playing badly.

 

It was not surprising in that Don Cowie has given a shake to what shouldn't be that bad a County side  (we're after one of their players after all) and we didn't take our chances, and stuff like that just happens in football. On the same day, Fulham beat Spurs 3-0 because it's a funny game and sometimes stuff happens.

 

We have a makeshift defence because of injuries, the pitch was wretched, the ref was wretched, and our rookie manager got the tactics wrong, meanwhile we missed some chances. There's absolutely no need to look deeper than that.

Hud on that's far too sensible a post for Kickback.

Our defence needs a Kent / Halkett. I like Toby but too many fatal errors , remember the first Hibs game.

When we get Kent back we should also get our defensive mojo back. Giving teams a 2 goal start is not a good move.

[pettigrewsstylist]

11 hours ago, feedthefox said:

 

Completely agree, Kingsley is good enough to score without Shanks standing in front of keeper. Soon as it went in I knew it would be ruled out and I'd be screaming for the same if it was against us. Whole thing was quite bizarre and if I was Kingsley I'd be raging.

I doubt Shanks did it of his own back. Suspect all knew what was to happen, including SN.

[Chimp]

Just now, HopeDiouf said:

same applies to Rowles for me.  Toby's had a few more, but he's been here a bit longer.  Rowles has thrown away numerous goals as well.

 

I'm talking about Sibbick though, unsure why you're not just calling him out for him costing us another goal instead of deflecting it with Rowles, who has been very good at times this season especially alongside Kent. 

 

I've already said Rowles wasn't good, I'm not disagreeing with you. Sibbick once again cost us a goal and he's done it one too many times. He doesn't have any credit in the bank. More times than not when he's had his chance he's blown it. A couple of decent bits of play and some good long balls isn't enough to give you pass marks I'm afraid.

[HopeDiouf]

1 minute ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

I doubt Shanks did it of his own back. Suspect all knew what was to happen, including SN.

agreed.  could be wrong, but think I've seen shanks do same thing before this season.  Saturday the first one that went in.

[tcjambo]

Just now, Chimp said:

 

I'm talking about Sibbick though, unsure why you're not just calling him out for him costing us another goal instead of deflecting it with Rowles, who has been very good at times this season especially alongside Kent. 

 

I've already said Rowles wasn't good, I'm not disagreeing with you. Sibbick once again cost us a goal and he's done it one too many times. He doesn't have any credit in the bank. More times than not when he's had his chance he's blown it. A couple of decent bits of play and some good long balls isn't enough to give you pass marks I'm afraid.

It's called putting criticism in perspective. Toby had one bad moment for which we were heavily punished. Rowles was rank rotten throughout.

[HopeDiouf]

1 minute ago, Chimp said:

 

I'm talking about Sibbick though, unsure why you're not just calling him out for him costing us another goal instead of deflecting it with Rowles, who has been very good at times this season especially alongside Kent. 

 

I've already said Rowles wasn't good, I'm not disagreeing with you. Sibbick once again cost us a goal and he's done it one too many times. He doesn't have any credit in the bank. More times than not when he's had his chance he's blown it. A couple of decent bits of play and some good long balls isn't enough to give you pass marks I'm afraid.

For me, Sibbick made one mistake yesterday in an otherwise good performance. He got punished.  Now fans slaughtering him.  I get your point re too many mistakes, but equally, he had a much better game than Rowles on Saturday, and Rowles has made plenty mistakes himself.

Just think Sibbick very unlucky it was his mistake that led to the goal.

[Chimp]

1 minute ago, tcjambo said:

It's called putting criticism in perspective. Toby had one bad moment for which we were heavily punished. Rowles was rank rotten throughout.

 

Yes, perspective would be realising it's not just one bad moment though. He's done this kind of thing in most of his time at the club. 

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, briever said:

 

Of course we're the best of the rest.

Didn't look like it on Saturday. I agree we will likely finish best of the rest but I don't think we can swing our dicks quite yet!

[Watt-Zeefuik]

55 minutes ago, SLLP58 said:

Hud on that's far too sensible a post for Kickback.

Our defence needs a Kent / Halkett. I like Toby but too many fatal errors , remember the first Hibs game.

When we get Kent back we should also get our defensive mojo back. Giving teams a 2 goal start is not a good move.

 

Yep, Rowles in particular is fantastic when he's on the outside of a back 3 and good enough when he's in a back 2 with a really solid ball winner but that wasn't what we had.

 

It's harsh on Kingsley as I know he doesn't like playing there but he was excellent at organizing the defence in the middle of a back 3 and I think maybe we should stick with that until Kent comes back.

[Ex member of the SaS]

It's Toby's indecision that cost us. Either put it out for a corner or knee it back to Zander. Trying to bounce it on his knee ready to hoof it up the park was a huge mistake. The time he has been playing, if he hasn't sorted this by now he never will. Maybe a decent squad player but we need better permanent cover for that position, where we can afford Toby and A N Other is something for the manager and board.

[1971fozzy]

Apart from Livingston (who are utterly rank and will deservedly go down)  from 3rd to 11th  there’s little between sides. Our difference is simply Lawrence Shanklands.

hibs fans doing their usual world beaters threads on social media after they beat that shite at home. 

[i8hibsh]

We really do need a pretty big overhaul.  So many sub standard squad players that weaken the team.  We have no continuity for injuries.  If a player gets injured he is almost certainly going to be replaced by someone of vastly inferior quality who is not a natural in that position.

 

Our starting XI is pretty decent, not great but decent.

 

The rest of the squad is made up of youngsters who will be playing lower league football in a few years, injury prone players and of course players who should never have been signed in the first place.

 

Edited March 18 by i8hibsh

[Ex member of the SaS]

We won't win every game but we have been poor all season and only second half performances and Shanks's goals have us in third. We are too slow to start and invariably go a goal down before we decide to play.

SN wants fast attacking football but what we are getting is possession football that may work in the English Perm but doesn't work here. Zander passing the ball to a player in our own six yard box is asking for trouble. You need players who are confident on the ball and movement up front, we have neither. Hopefully third is in the bag and new players in the summer will see an improvement but in the mean time we have to wake up and get stuck in from KO.

[Ex member of the SaS]

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

We really do need a pretty big overhaul.  So many sub standard squad players that weaken the team.  We have no continuity for injuries.  If a player gets injured he is almost certainly going to be replaced by someone of vastly inferior quality who is not a natural in that position.

 

Our starting XI is pretty decent, not great but decent.

 

The rest of the squad is made up of youngsters who will be playing lower league football in a few years, injury prone players and of course players who should never have been signed in the first place.

 

I disagree our starting XI has been poor all season and only after changes at half time have we seen an improvement. Said before if SN can see what changes are required, why does he make the same mistakes every week and only fix things after going a goal down?

[i8hibsh]

Atkinson, Devlin, Rowles, Denholm, Sibbick, Tagawa, Oda should all find new clubs imo.

 

Our perennially injured (Bolyce, Halkett, Haring) are all cracking players on their day but we now get nothing out of their employment.

 

 

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

I disagree our starting XI has been poor all season and only after changes at half time have we seen an improvement. Said before if SN can see what changes are required, why does he make the same mistakes every week and only fix things after going a goal down?

 

 

I mean our strongest, as in injury free etc.

 

Sadly there is more chance of fielding XI unicorns than ever having our bext XI on the park at one time.

[Harry Potter]

38 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Didn't look like it on Saturday. I agree we will likely finish best of the rest but I don't think we can swing our dicks quite yet!

21 shots wi 6 on target, we have to be more clinical.

[i8hibsh]

Gordon/Clark

 

Kent, Halkett, Kingsley, Cochrane

 

Vargas, Beni, Hoff, Forrest

 

Boyce/Mckay

Shankland

 

 

is pretty decent

 

[No Idle Talk]

2 hours ago, Chimp said:

 

This is basically what it came down to and shows the importance of both players in the side. The way in which Sibbick weakens our defence is so glaringly obvious.

 

Sibbick wasn't good on Saturday. I won't attempt to say otherwise. But being sandwiched in between Atkinson and Rowles is a tough shift. They are both crap. Atkinson especially. 

 

I still think if Toby Sibbick has a future at Hearts it is as a defensive midfielder, not a centre back. He gets caught ball watching too often to be a centre back. Maybe that part of his game will improve as he gets older. But for now it is a visible flaw in his game. 

[i8hibsh]

Sibbick is one of the most likeable players in a long long time and overall a good signing but we simply must go a level up in quality.

[i8hibsh]

Ross County are ****ing dogmeat and yet again we struggled against them.  

 

This should be keeping Naismith up at night - it is his failings.

[Chimp]

10 minutes ago, No Idle Talk said:

 

Sibbick wasn't good on Saturday. I won't attempt to say otherwise. But being sandwiched in between Atkinson and Rowles is a tough shift. They are both crap. Atkinson especially. 

 

I still think if Toby Sibbick has a future at Hearts it is as a defensive midfielder, not a centre back. He gets caught ball watching too often to be a centre back. Maybe that part of his game will improve as he gets older. But for now it is a visible flaw in his game. 

 

Based on what? And don't say his debut against Rangers years ago ha.  He's been tried there already this season and was poor. 

[upgotheheads]

16 minutes ago, No Idle Talk said:

 

Sibbick wasn't good on Saturday. I won't attempt to say otherwise. But being sandwiched in between Atkinson and Rowles is a tough shift. They are both crap. Atkinson especially. 

 

I still think if Toby Sibbick has a future at Hearts it is as a defensive midfielder, not a centre back. He gets caught ball watching too often to be a centre back. Maybe that part of his game will improve as he gets older. But for now it is a visible flaw in his game. 

 

The trouble is we're struggling for fit centre backs but not so much for defensive mids. I agree that he doesn't have the nous to play the position, and he looks better  further forward. He has shown a few times that he can ping long passes very accurately so maybe when he's playing it should be a 4-1-3-2 or similar with him as the 1.

Edited March 18 by upgotheheads

[tiger Rudi]

33 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

It's Toby's indecision that cost us. Either put it out for a corner or knee it back to Zander. Trying to bounce it on his knee ready to hoof it up the park was a huge mistake. The time he has been playing, if he hasn't sorted this by now he never will. Maybe a decent squad player but we need better permanent cover for that position, where we can afford Toby and A N Other is something for the manager and board.

Yep that about sums it up. I have a lot of time for Toby but we simply can't put up with the frequency of costly errors from him that lead to goals conceded and lost points. 

In his defence, I would ask the question, who was screaming at him "man on, empty it" or whatever. Would a Kent, Halkett or Gordon have "allowed" that to happen? 

Another CB in the Kent mould is needed. 

For me, Toby just doesn't look like a defender at times, his body shape just isnt right prior to tackling. Look at the 2nd goal too. His efforts at trying to cut out crosses for example are almost amateurish/lax looking. I do think there is a player there, maybe he should have concentrated on midfield earlier in his career because he certainly doesn't look like a defender who's main attribute is defensive strength. Will do as a squad player, but cannot be trusted with anything more than that unfortunately. 

[Debut 4]

33 minutes ago, No Idle Talk said:

 

Sibbick wasn't good on Saturday. I won't attempt to say otherwise. But being sandwiched in between Atkinson and Rowles is a tough shift. They are both crap. Atkinson especially. 

 

I still think if Toby Sibbick has a future at Hearts it is as a defensive midfielder, not a centre back. He gets caught ball watching too often to be a centre back. Maybe that part of his game will improve as he gets older. But for now it is a visible flaw in his game. 

Even the second goal was chronic.
 

No reaction to get out tighter, then the response is a powder puff half turn away from the moment the ball was being played across.  

[tiger Rudi]

2 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Even the second goal was chronic.
 

No reaction to get out tighter, then the response is a powder puff half turn away from the moment the ball was being played across.  

Yep, I noticed that too. 

[Debut 4]

9 minutes ago, tiger Rudi said:

Yep that about sums it up. I have a lot of time for Toby but we simply can't put up with the frequency of costly errors from him that lead to goals conceded and lost points. 

In his defence, I would ask the question, who was screaming at him "man on, empty it" or whatever. Would a Kent, Halkett or Gordon have "allowed" that to happen? 

Another CB in the Kent mould is needed. 

For me, Toby just doesn't look like a defender at times, his body shape just isnt right prior to tackling. Look at the 2nd goal too. His efforts at trying to cut out crosses for example are almost amateurish/lax looking. I do think there is a player there, maybe he should have concentrated on midfield earlier in his career because he certainly doesn't look like a defender who's main attribute is defensive strength. Will do as a squad player, but cannot be trusted with anything more than that unfortunately. 

The problem (if it is such) with squad players is you may be turning to them for 7,8 games, maybe longer, not just a couple. 
 

Maybe our strategy should change in that respect, esp regards defenders. 
 

Where’s the out and out defenders who maybe lack in other aspects but can come in and do the basics? Who actually are natural defenders not jumped up ball players hoping to defend well?

 

If you go through our defenders, who would you say can actually defend with a degree of control and balance?

 

I think we’d all agree on the same names but it’s not top heavy on the good side out of the numbers. We arguably had 3 of our weakest playing on Sat and that’s basically our cover.  While a good player you can chuck in Lembikisa too.  
 

Kent and Kingsley hold it together centrally but we are missing one for now and there’s also Halkett who we aren’t sure about when he’ll be back. 

 

 

[tiger Rudi]

19 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

The problem (if it is such) with squad players is you may be turning to them for 7,8 games, maybe longer, not just a couple. 
 

Maybe our strategy should change in that respect, esp regards defenders. 
 

Where’s the out and out defenders who maybe lack in other aspects but can come in and do the basics? Who actually are natural defenders not jumped up ball players hoping to defend well?

 

If you go through our defenders, who would you say can actually defend with a degree of control and balance?

 

I think we’d all agree on the same names but it’s not top heavy on the good side out of the numbers. We arguably had 3 of our weakest playing on Sat and that’s basically our cover.  While a good player you can chuck in Lembikisa too.  
 

Kent and Kingsley hold it together centrally but we are missing one for now and there’s also Halkett who we aren’t sure about when he’ll be back. 

 

 

I agree with all of that, I will also add, we don't actually have a proper right back in our squad. I get called out a few times when I mention it, and have done so frequently. We have never replaced Smith with a like for like. Smith was actually done long before he left, so its been a problem for a long long time. How many times are we caught out down the right side? We juggle about between Atty and Dexter, use Sibbick and even Kingsley on that side. It's not good enough. Better teams exploit our preference for wing backs. One away win against Celtic doesn't change that, before anybody jumps in 😁

[Debut 4]

2 minutes ago, tiger Rudi said:

I agree with all of that, I will also add, we don't actually have a proper right back in our squad. I get called out a few times when I mention it, and have done so frequently. We have never replaced Smith with a like for like. Smith was actually done long before he left, so its been a problem for a long long time. How many times are we caught out down the right side? We juggle about between Atty and Dexter, use Sibbick and even Kingsley on that side. It's not good enough. Better teams exploit our preference for wing backs. One away win against Celtic doesn't change that, before anybody jumps in 😁

👍🏻

[Shaggy2]

Just watched snippets of the game back. Boy, did that ref no despise Shankland? 
Had left prior to injury time but just watched it to see Shankland being pulled back resulting in him being a split second late to a challenge which made it go from 80/20 in his favour to about 50/50. The County guy goes to ground and there’s a coming together from which they got a free kick. It goes our way and Kingsley wins us a point! 

Edited March 18 by Shaggy2

[briever]

4 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Didn't look like it on Saturday. I agree we will likely finish best of the rest but I don't think we can swing our dicks quite yet!

 

FFS stop getting carried away with one defeat.  We are clearly the third best team in the country.

[No Idle Talk]

5 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Even the second goal was chronic.
 

No reaction to get out tighter, then the response is a powder puff half turn away from the moment the ball was being played across.  

 

Also the fact that he passed the ball out of play to give them the throw in that led to the goal. Just poor all round. 

[Hearts_fan]

22 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

The goalie had to look around Shankland to see where the ball was.  So, an offside player has obstructed his view.  
 

All that aside there’s been too much “tweaking” of the rules.  Offside was brought into stop these things happening.  In simple terms in the past if you were closer to the goal than the defence when the ball is played, you are offside.

 

It was to stop poaching.   We now have many scenarios that bring too much to think about in the game and kind of go against the essence of it when it comes to team preparation and organisation.  

What’s the point of a team practicing shape and the offside trap when an attacker can linger offside at the first ball without going for it but run in for the cut back to score?   It’s not enhanced attacking play, its made it an unfair advantage.  No matter how much we love to see goals and attacking play, defending shouldn’t be cheapened by grey areas or too many intricacies in the rule book. 

 

 

I don’t believe the gk was looking around Shankland when the ball was in play. 

 

I don’t know how to load an image here, but in the moment the goalkeeper starts diving, the location of the ball and the location of Shankland is quite telling. The goalkeeper doesn’t start diving until he sees the ball emerge from over his own wall. Shankland is nowhere near blocking the gk’s view, it was the gk’s own wall that blocked his view of the ball. The gk was desperate to find an excuse and blamed Shankland. So many have been taken in by the theatrics.

 

 

Edited March 18 by Hearts_fan

[No Idle Talk]

6 hours ago, Chimp said:

 

Based on what? And don't say his debut against Rangers years ago ha.  He's been tried there already this season and was poor. 

 

Based on he has the physical tools to be good in that position. We have seen in the past few years how handy it can be having a big guy with some physical presence in that area of the park(Peter Haring). Sibbick has that. He is also athletic and quick, with plenty of stamina(sprinting the length of the pitch to score in the 90th minute at Easter Road). He is good with the ball at his feet and can ping some impressive long passes. Add all of these qualities together and you have a player who has some tools that could make him a good defensive midfielder. 

 

The part of his game he really has to work on is his awareness of what is going on around him. At times he gets caught dawdling or gets his body into the wrong position because he hasn't anticipated well enough. Those are skills he would also need to develop to play in midfield but at least if he gets caught out in midfield he would still have the defence behind him to cover. When he gets caught out at centre back it leads to goals. 

 

He's not a full back and never will be. 

 

That's kinda my analysis of the situation. 

[Gundermann]

6 hours ago, Chimp said:

 

Based on what? And don't say his debut against Rangers years ago ha.  He's been tried there already this season and was poor. 

 

Given his performance on Saturday and his exploits against Hibs, maybe he's best as an attacking mid?

 

He's not a defender, certainly.

[Chimp]

29 minutes ago, No Idle Talk said:

 

Based on he has the physical tools to be good in that position. We have seen in the past few years how handy it can be having a big guy with some physical presence in that area of the park(Peter Haring). Sibbick has that. He is also athletic and quick, with plenty of stamina(sprinting the length of the pitch to score in the 90th minute at Easter Road). He is good with the ball at his feet and can ping some impressive long passes. Add all of these qualities together and you have a player who has some tools that could make him a good defensive midfielder. 

 

The part of his game he really has to work on is his awareness of what is going on around him. At times he gets caught dawdling or gets his body into the wrong position because he hasn't anticipated well enough. Those are skills he would also need to develop to play in midfield but at least if he gets caught out in midfield he would still have the defence behind him to cover. When he gets caught out at centre back it leads to goals. 

 

He's not a full back and never will be. 

 

That's kinda my analysis of the situation. 

Again, he was deployed there already and was poor. Not deserving of a place there. Playing in the middle also requires good positional awareness, something he severely lacks. Maybe it’s time we realised he just isn't good enough for us and we stopped trying to shoehorn him into different positions.

[gjcc]

Don’t want to start a thread and get folks hopes up with the title. 
 

Anyone have any clue if Shankland appeal to the yellow has been heard or what time it is today?

 

Probably upgraded to a Red for a spurious appeal with the ban to be served the first fixture after 28 days have elapsed regardless of the competition. 

[Luckies1874]

On 16/03/2024 at 15:39, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

I'm not saying you can't overcome it. But if you think athletes don't naturally lose a bit of edge when the stakes get lower, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Man City v Celtic at Kenan Stadium, Chapel Hill, on 23rd July ……wee treat for you 

[RustyRightPeg]

2 hours ago, gjcc said:

Don’t want to start a thread and get folks hopes up with the title. 
 

Anyone have any clue if Shankland appeal to the yellow has been heard or what time it is today?

 

Probably upgraded to a Red for a spurious appeal with the ban to be served the first fixture after 28 days have elapsed regardless of the competition. 

 

I think Shanks reaction will save him. He doesn't appeal and bounces straight back up. 

 

Ref is too quick to blow.