Summer 24 Transfers - Vargas signs 5 year deal ( updated/merged )

[DC_92]

40 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Must have watched him about 15 times now  Decent player in the Killie set up Not sure he fits Naismith style of play   He is nearly 27 and at Killie for a reason  Certainly not a £1m player imo as some seem to think  

 

The reason is he was previously an average player who has bloomed late and improved massively over the last couple of years.

 

He's exactly the same age as Paul Hartley was when we signed him from 1st Division St Johnstone.

Edited April 28 by DC_92

[Cruyff]

I wouldn't touch Danny Armstrong with a barge pole to be quite frank. He's not any better than what we have and his price tag is too high. We can do a lot better. If he were a free agent.... Worth the punt. This seasons Jordan Jones. 

[Rick Sanchez]

McCowan and/or Campbell should be the priority.

 

I'd genuinely pay 1-1.5m for McCowan. I reckon you'd make it back no problem.

[Farmer1]

10 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

McCowan and/or Campbell should be the priority.

 

I'd genuinely pay 1-1.5m for McCowan. I reckon you'd make it back no problem.

I really rate McCowan as well, but say we offered shankland a 3 year deal with an extra 5k a week that is 750k. Surely that is better value than spending almost double this on transfer fees 

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Must have watched him about 15 times now  Decent player in the Killie set up Not sure he fits Naismith style of play   He is nearly 27 and at Killie for a reason  Certainly not a £1m player imo as some seem to think  

I think he’s top 3 for assists in the league. He can play RWB or more orthodox right winger. His delivery is outstanding most times. If you can’t fit a player like him into your so called ‘style of play’ when we’re so bereft of effective final balls then it’s Naismith you ought to look at, not the player.

 

Doesnt fit our style ! - I’ve never heard so much shite in my life. We tried to use Atkinson AND Lembikisa in the exact role he plays and neither of them are anything like as good as Armstrong

 

£1 million is the very top end of his value. personally I think our board wouldn’t release that kind of money for one player no matter how good he was, which is a shame because that reluctance to spend decent money on the team is holding us back

[soonbe110]

44 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I think he’s top 3 for assists in the league. He can play RWB or more orthodox right winger. His delivery is outstanding most times. If you can’t fit a player like him into your so called ‘style of play’ when we’re so bereft of effective final balls then it’s Naismith you ought to look at, not the player.

 

Doesnt fit our style ! - I’ve never heard so much shite in my life. We tried to use Atkinson AND Lembikisa in the exact role he plays and neither of them are anything like as good as Armstrong

 

£1 million is the very top end of his value. personally I think our board wouldn’t release that kind of money for one player no matter how good he was, which is a shame because that reluctance to spend decent money on the team is holding us back

Naismith wants to play with four at the back. No room for rwb’s except the odd game when tactics demand it.   That’s why he doesn’t really fit what we need to bring in this summer given who has already signed. Where do you think Hof, Grant, Spittal, Dhanda, McKay, Vargas, Oda, Forrest, Tait, Pollock all play if we have five at the back and the usual two holding midfielders. Assuming Shankland starts if fit and still with us then there are only  two places left. 

[HMFC01]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

Opinion on Armstrong hasn't changed. Killie are quite a one dimensional team. As a winger Armstrong cannot single handedly win games. The strikers he's got ahead of him aren't very good, neither are the midfielders. 

 

His stats despite that speak for themselves. 

 

That said, his agent is the same one that ruined Jamie Walker, and is a super hun. Not sure its someone we will want to deal with based on his previous nonsense. Luke McCowan also a very good option. Either or both would improve us. 

 

I'd say McCowan is more a #10, #8 left sided.   Armstrong a winger.   We probably don't need McCowan unless we let players go.   Armstrong is a player we don't have.   

 

He was easily whipping in crosses yesterday.   Right and left foot.   Got past his marker easy.   Has had a good couple of seasons.   I'd sign him unless we can find better. 

 

Of course it's up to what Naismith wants from his players.   Does he want a winger.   Do we have the players that can get on crosses.   I think so.   Shankland and Spittal would be getting on the crosses. 

 

 

[leipzig76]

14 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Naismith wants to play with four at the back. No room for rwb’s except the odd game when tactics demand it.   That’s why he doesn’t really fit what we need to bring in this summer given who has already signed. Where do you think Hof, Grant, Spittal, Dhanda, McKay, Vargas, Oda, Forrest, Tait, Pollock all play if we have five at the back and the usual two holding midfielders. Assuming Shankland starts if fit and still with us then there are only  two places left. 

Good point ! There's Neilson on loan at Partick as well

[LarrysRightFoot]

21 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Naismith wants to play with four at the back. No room for rwb’s except the odd game when tactics demand it.   That’s why he doesn’t really fit what we need to bring in this summer given who has already signed. Where do you think Hof, Grant, Spittal, Dhanda, McKay, Vargas, Oda, Forrest, Tait, Pollock all play if we have five at the back and the usual two holding midfielders. Assuming Shankland starts if fit and still with us then there are only  two places left. 

The way Naismith speaks is he wants us to tactically/formationally (is that a word?) fluid. Not stuck to one way of playing, ideally it sounds as though he wants us to be able to play various different ways within the one game should we need too. 

[Debut 4]

2 hours ago, spacerjoe said:

 

For sure, as I mentioned, I'm sure he could adapt it he has the ability.

 

But I don't think he's a like for like replacement for Forrest or that position.

 

Armstrong is much more of a traditional right midfielder and plays mostly right of a 4 man midfield in a 442. Forrest, Oda, Vargas are wide forwards.

 

For us to drop a big fee on a rival's top player, we'd have to be sure he could adapt to our system, or change our system to suit him.

 

I see Dhanda and Spittal slotting in as they are now. McCowan at Dundee could also.

Agree with your points but I’d actually like a more traditional wide midfielder. 
 

Maybe a tweak in system and giving us flexibility is the next step? 

[soonbe110]

38 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

The way Naismith speaks is he wants us to tactically/formationally (is that a word?) fluid. Not stuck to one way of playing, ideally it sounds as though he wants us to be able to play various different ways within the one game should we need too. 

I agree but it’s pretty clear from the last 12 months that his preferred line-up is a back four. One of the main reasons he hasn’t stuck with it more, imo, is the obvious lack of a real right back.  Tried Offiah but his illness scuppered that. We brought in Dexter in January as another rwb and competition for Atkinson which was strange other than if we have a real right back lined up for this summer and couldn’t get them in January. 

[2205ian]

54 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

 

I'd say McCowan is more a #10, #8 left sided.   Armstrong a winger.   We probably don't need McCowan unless we let players go.   Armstrong is a player we don't have.   

 

He was easily whipping in crosses yesterday.   Right and left foot.   Got past his marker easy.   Has had a good couple of seasons.   I'd sign him unless we can find better. 

 

Of course it's up to what Naismith wants from his players.   Does he want a winger.   Do we have the players that can get on crosses.   I think so.   Shankland and Spittal would be getting on the crosses. 

 

 

Really “Got past his marker easily”. Not in the match I attended at Rugby Park yesterday. He never got past Cochrane. Alex had to take him out his back pocket when he was subbed off for being totally ineffective!

 

Silly transfer fees being banded about IMO.

 

 

 

[Chuck Berry]

A lot of chat about McCowan, but isn't Lyall Cameron the better player and is the age we want to be looking at if paying a fee?

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, Chuck Berry said:

A lot of chat about McCowan, but isn't Lyall Cameron the better player and is the age we want to be looking at if paying a fee?

Hes a good player, we’ve tried before.  I just think he plays in an area now where we already have cover. 
 

that said, if he’s a good players, better than what we have? By all means 

[Chuck Berry]

10 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Hes a good player, we’ve tried before.  I just think he plays in an area now where we already have cover. 
 

that said, if he’s a good players, better than what we have? By all means 

 

Yeah we probably are well covered in that kinda area, although if Beni and Haring are going then possibly a space for another.

[BackOfTheNet]

If we’re spending money on Scottish based players we need a guarantee that they’ll be special for us or that they’ll have sell on potential for profit. Free transfers are fine as they are minimal risk, so Dhanda and Spittal could do a job, might not. If they do, great, if they don’t no massive loss.

 

But spending high six figures or even seven figures on a player based on Scotland, we need a guarantee. And Armstrong wouldn’t be that guarantee. However, that being said, we need to make a step up next season and that will cost money. I just think if we’re going to spend it, we can use the money more wisely. Hibs will get better and I have a hunch this Aberdeen appointment may work out well for them. So with that in mind and Europe to try and make a better showing, we need to increase our level of quality, and that may cost us a bit.

[Jambo dans les Pyrenees]

There’s a fair amount coming off the wage bill in the summer.

 

Halliday, Haring, McGovern

 

Dexter and Fraser back to parent clubs

 

I think a one or two of Atkinson/Rowles/Cochrane away for a fee, and maybe Grant or Sibbick too.

 

Plus Beni and Shanks, but hope they both stay.

 

Could be a busy window, but the first 5 above you’d have to think release 10k per week minimum….?  

[soonbe110]

15 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

If we’re spending money on Scottish based players we need a guarantee that they’ll be special for us or that they’ll have sell on potential for profit. Free transfers are fine as they are minimal risk, so Dhanda and Spittal could do a job, might not. If they do, great, if they don’t no massive loss.

 

But spending high six figures or even seven figures on a player based on Scotland, we need a guarantee. And Armstrong wouldn’t be that guarantee. However, that being said, we need to make a step up next season and that will cost money. I just think if we’re going to spend it, we can use the money more wisely. Hibs will get better and I have a hunch this Aberdeen appointment may work out well for them. So with that in mind and Europe to try and make a better showing, we need to increase our level of quality, and that may cost us a bit.

Certainly wouldn’t spend £1m on a 27 year old  playing in Scotland. 

[soonbe110]

17 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

If we’re spending money on Scottish based players we need a guarantee that they’ll be special for us or that they’ll have sell on potential for profit. Free transfers are fine as they are minimal risk, so Dhanda and Spittal could do a job, might not. If they do, great, if they don’t no massive loss.

 

But spending high six figures or even seven figures on a player based on Scotland, we need a guarantee. And Armstrong wouldn’t be that guarantee. However, that being said, we need to make a step up next season and that will cost money. I just think if we’re going to spend it, we can use the money more wisely. Hibs will get better and I have a hunch this Aberdeen appointment may work out well for them. So with that in mind and Europe to try and make a better showing, we need to increase our level of quality, and that may cost us a bit.

It’s time we signed a couple of game changers esp if we have the spare cash from Europe. We haven’t really signed players at the level above where we are for a long time. Maybe time to gamble to an extent. We will never know or realise our potential until we try. 

[jr ewing]

Watching Bakayoka with interest. 

[Jambo92]

We won't get value for money with under contract players in Scotland, teams like Dundee, Killie aren't going to sell their best players to us on cheap. We've done our pre contract business in Scotland, imagine the rest of our business will be from England and further afield.

[johnking123]

I like the signings we have made. But need to sign few real quality players.  Real game changers.

[heartmussel]

1 hour ago, jr ewing said:

Watching Bakayoka with interest. 

I’m watching James Forrest with interest.

[Hansel]

Just now, heartmussel said:

I’m watching James Forrest with interest.

Can't see him for the trees lolz

[heartmussel]

1 minute ago, Hansel said:

Can't see him for the trees lolz

🤭

[RustyRightPeg]

1 hour ago, jr ewing said:

Watching Bakayoka with interest. 

And Sylla. I was intrigued by Mccowan but that big lad can play too. 

[stuart500]

Bruce Anderson leaving Livi. Were we not reportedly interested in signing him?

 

There's also the Dan Phillips rumour from St J fans.

 

Both could be useful but not a step up in quality. 

[johnking123]

4 minutes ago, stuart500 said:

Bruce Anderson leaving Livi. Were we not reportedly interested in signing him?

 

There's also the Dan Phillips rumour from St J fans.

 

Both could be useful but not a step up in quality. 

Would do it only if Boyce is moved on.

[Chuck Berry]

16 minutes ago, stuart500 said:

Bruce Anderson leaving Livi. Were we not reportedly interested in signing him?

 

There's also the Dan Phillips rumour from St J fans.

 

Both could be useful but not a step up in quality. 

 

I've always thought Anderson had something in him to be more than a decent striker. Only 25, available on a free. Not an upgrade on anyone really unless Naismith thinks he can get a tune out of him.

Edited April 28 by Chuck Berry

[Hansel]

3 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

I've always thought Anderson had something in him to be more than a decent striker. Only 25, available on a free. Not an upgrade on anyone really unless Naismith thinks he can get a tune out of him.

Reckon he would be a good squad player. Watched an interview with him and he was talking about his diabetes diagnosis when he was a teenager. Seemed like a good level headed lad who had worked hard to overcome this setback and looks after himself.

 

 

 

 

[johnking123]

We won't be shopping in SPFL only. That would be massive mistake. Only players I would take is cameron and Beck who Is loan from Liverpool. We sell cochrane then use the cash for Beck.

[Rick Sanchez]

17 starts in 39 appearances for a rock bottom Livingston.

 

8 goals. 0 assists.

 

Not for me.

 

I'm aware Penrice is from rock bottom Livingston before anyone comments

[kingantti1874]

10 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

We won't be shopping in SPFL only. That would be massive mistake. Only players I would take is cameron and Beck who Is loan from Liverpool. We sell cochrane then use the cash for Beck.

Beck has multiple options including Celtic. We aren’t at the races for him.

 

hes only back at Dundee becuase he played for Liverpool and couldn’t go anywhere else on loan

[GinRummy]

37 minutes ago, stuart500 said:

Bruce Anderson leaving Livi. Were we not reportedly interested in signing him?

 

There's also the Dan Phillips rumour from St J fans.

 

Both could be useful but not a step up in quality. 

As far as I can remember, Anderson was only rumoured on here. Could be wrong. 

[johnking123]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

Beck has multiple options including Celtic. We aren’t at the races for him.

 

hes only back at Dundee becuase he played for Liverpool and couldn’t go anywhere else on loan

Most likely.  But this is the quality we should be aiming for.

[zeke1874]

The problem we have is we don't know who's leaving, maybe naismith does tho.., so it's hard to say what positions we should target.

If.. and it's a big if we keep everyone then the obvious area for me is right back. Dexter is a loan and Atkinson is OK but we could hopefully find someone who can improve that area. We're we not linked witha Japanese RB for a while? 

[JamboAl]

3 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

If we’re spending money on Scottish based players we need a guarantee that they’ll be special for us or that they’ll have sell on potential for profit. Free transfers are fine as they are minimal risk, so Dhanda and Spittal could do a job, might not. If they do, great, if they don’t no massive loss.

 

But spending high six figures or even seven figures on a player based on Scotland, we need a guarantee. And Armstrong wouldn’t be that guarantee. However, that being said, we need to make a step up next season and that will cost money. I just think if we’re going to spend it, we can use the money more wisely. Hibs will get better and I have a hunch this Aberdeen appointment may work out well for them. So with that in mind and Europe to try and make a better showing, we need to increase our level of quality, and that may cost us a bit.

What sort of guarantee do you envisage?  The selling club saying if he doesn't play well we'll give you your money back?

We signed 2 players with experience in the top 2 divisions of England (Damour and Whelan) as well as John Sutton and we all know how that turned out.  There is no such thing as a guaranteed signing and even less likely at our level

Edited April 28 by JamboAl

[kingantti1874]

48 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

Most likely.  But this is the quality we should be aiming for.

I agree with the sentiment 100%.

 

but this lad would cost £5m easily.  
 

I wish we were in that position. 

[Jambo dans les Pyrenees]

8 minutes ago, zeke1874 said:

The problem we have is we don't know who's leaving, maybe naismith does tho.., so it's hard to say what positions we should target.

If.. and it's a big if we keep everyone then the obvious area for me is right back. Dexter is a loan and Atkinson is OK but we could hopefully find someone who can improve that area. We're we not linked witha Japanese RB for a while? 

 

I think Naismith will have a fair idea:

 

Beni likely to leave, Cochrane we are likely to cash in (young, English, one year left) while Haring and Halliday also away.

 

Dexter and Fraser will both leave when their loans expire.

 

So a critical eye on the squad:

 

GK:  We will have to have Clarke as our first choice, otherwise he’ll look to leave if we give Gordon one more season.  Stone as 3rd choice.

 

DF:  We will have Kent and Kingsley as first team picks.  Kingsley turns 30 in the summer and has a year of his contract remaining so adding a couple of years to that would seem good business.

 

Rowles (26 in the summer) and Atkinson (25 in the summer) could also be sold.  While on the young side for defenders, they are not youngsters, and arguably haven’t progressed as we’d like.  If he stays, Atkinson would be a good squad player.

 

Sibbick at 25 is I think in the same boat as Atkinson

 

Halkett at 29 looks touch and go if he will come back, and be reliable.

 

We’ve got Penrice (25) coming in plus Neilson (21 in the summer) returning from loan.

 

So:  Kent, Kingsley, New RB, New CH, Penrice, Neilson and hope Halkett returns in form and fitness.  That’s 7 plus youngsters like Flatman, Rathie etc.

 

MF:  We’ll have Devlin, the Hoff, Dhanda, Spittal, Grant plus Tait, Denholm and Pollock then the youths.  I’d be looking for 2 more.  10 in the middle.

 

Wide players:  We’ll have McKay, Oda, Forrest.  3

 

Forwards:  Shanks, Vargas, Tagawa and Boyce with youths like Kirk and Wilson to augment.  4.

 

So a squad of 26-27 including 4 new signings which I think have to be top, experienced pro’s where we push the boat out a bit on wages.

 

 

[ELITHEDUG]

8 hours ago, OTT said:

Opinion on Armstrong hasn't changed. Killie are quite a one dimensional team. As a winger Armstrong cannot single handedly win games. The strikers he's got ahead of him aren't very good, neither are the midfielders. 

 

His stats despite that speak for themselves. 

 

That said, his agent is the same one that ruined Jamie Walker, and is a super hun. Not sure its someone we will want to deal with based on his previous nonsense. Luke McCowan also a very good option. Either or both would improve us. 

THIS :-)

[DC_92]

7 hours ago, Cruyff said:

I wouldn't touch Danny Armstrong with a barge pole to be quite frank. He's not any better than what we have and his price tag is too high. We can do a lot better. If he were a free agent.... Worth the punt. This seasons Jordan Jones. 

 

Armstrong has 23 goals+assists this season and had 22 last season. In Jordan Jones' best season he got 14.

[jamboinglasgow]

2 hours ago, johnking123 said:

We won't be shopping in SPFL only. That would be massive mistake. Only players I would take is cameron and Beck who Is loan from Liverpool. We sell cochrane then use the cash for Beck.

 

Exactly. 

 

Our recruitment works best when it is a bit of both. Our current pre-contracts is a sign of learning from us, getting guys who can hit the ground running and could grow with a step up. Ones that add things we need. But to ignore the rest of the world would be silly. If we want to make money from transfers you have to find bargains from undervalued markets and build those players up.

 

Maybe the problem for us last summer (though it has worked out well for us) is we took in too many players who needed time to adapt which affected our squad depth. If we have a good mix of established players with new players who know the league and hit the ground running, then it means you can minimise the impact of overseas signings needing time to adapt (Naismith has said as much before.)

 

I can see us signing one or two players from the SPFL, but I would be amazed if we did not sign players from outside the UK in the summer.

 

 

[gregzy2k7]

So currently we are looking at a team next season of

 

Clarke

Atkinson Kent Rowles Cochrane

Hoff Devlin

Vargas Dhanda Spittal

Shankland

 

From that, I would look to to sign upgrades for Atkinson, Rowles and Devlin (not picking on the aussies)

As I just feel we could do better in all those areas and add quality,

 

If we could bring in say an Alan Campbell or a Luke Mccowan in midfield, Liam Lyndsay or Jimmy Dunne at CH,Then maybe a Riku Handa or someone else more established at RB then I think we would be in a very good place for our starting 11 imo as long as we can Hold on to Shankland.

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

I get where folk are coming from with the names being mentioned, all good players. 
We are still virtually no threat to teams from dead balls, we could do with a bit more height and maybe look at a couple of Scandinavians to fill the gaps at RB and CM?

[BackOfTheNet]

3 hours ago, JamboAl said:

What sort of guarantee do you envisage?  The selling club saying if he doesn't play well we'll give you your money back?

We signed 2 players with experience in the top 2 divisions of England (Damour and Whelan) as well as John Sutton and we all know how that turned out.  There is no such thing as a guaranteed signing and even less likely at our level

You really, really need to stop taking every single post literally. Of course there’s no such thing as a guarantee in football. Even the OF beating us isn’t guaranteed, but it’s something that happens most of the time. That’s the closest thing to guaranteed as you can get, the point being that if we’re going to pay good money we’d need something along those lines and Armstrong most certainly is not that. But you knew that, and everyone else knew that, but here you are. Again.
 

Genuine question, do you reply to anyone else on this forum as much as me? 

[JamboAl]

17 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

You really, really need to stop taking every single post literally. Of course there’s no such thing as a guarantee in football. Even the OF beating us isn’t guaranteed, but it’s something that happens most of the time. That’s the closest thing to guaranteed as you can get, the point being that if we’re going to pay good money we’d need something along those lines and Armstrong most certainly is not that. But you knew that, and everyone else knew that, but here you are. Again.
 

Genuine question, do you reply to anyone else on this forum as much as me? 

So why do you say you need one?

Can you explain what you actually mean.

As I said we have signed players experienced in the 2 top leagues in England and also signed a prolific scorer in Sutton - flops.  There are no certainties with signings so looking for guarantees seems a bit odd.

I'm sorry for seeking clarification.

[BackOfTheNet]

17 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

So why do you say you need one?

Can you explain what you actually mean.

As I said we have signed players experienced in the 2 top leagues in England and also signed a prolific scorer in Sutton - flops.  There are no certainties with signings so looking for guarantees seems a bit odd.

I'm sorry for seeking clarification.

I explained what I meant in the post you’ve quoted, but you’ve read the first line you can bolden and jumped to be anal about nothing. Again.

 

Mute/block me. Please. My posts obviously irritate you and your constant unwanted replies are borderline obsessive by this point.

[tcjambo]

2 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

So currently we are looking at a team next season of

 

Clarke

Atkinson Kent Rowles Cochrane

Hoff Devlin

Vargas Dhanda Spittal

Shankland

 

From that, I would look to to sign upgrades for Atkinson, Rowles and Devlin (not picking on the aussies)

As I just feel we could do better in all those areas and add quality,

 

If we could bring in say an Alan Campbell or a Luke Mccowan in midfield, Liam Lyndsay or Jimmy Dunne at CH,Then maybe a Riku Handa or someone else more established at RB then I think we would be in a very good place for our starting 11 imo as long as we can Hold on to Shankland.

 

 

 

Kingsley would be first choice ahead of Rowles or Cochrane (who may leave) IMO

[Chaps]

All the talk we want to kick on a get closer to the old firm.

 

Bruce Anderson ffs

 

Edited April 28 by Chaps

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I explained what I meant in the post you’ve quoted, but you’ve read the first line you can bolden and jumped to be anal about nothing. Again.

 

Mute/block me. Please. My posts obviously irritate you and your constant unwanted replies are borderline obsessive by this point.

I could not quite grasp your explanation and you'd rather be rude and defensive instead of offering clarification - so I'll ask again.

What are the guarantees you think we should seek?