*****Official Heart of Midlothian v Rangers Match Thread *****

[Dazo]

9 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

I'm not surprised people are unhappy we lost. We are supporters. We should take joy in victory and disappointment in defeat.

 

But I am surprised that people are so unhappy. We were competitive, we didn't concede early, and we had a go. Rangers aren't a great team but neither are we and they are clearly a better team overall. It showed. We gave them quite a lot of clear chances in the second half, but mainly because we were chasing a game we were already losing.

 

We are a bit lightweight. We lack a cutting edge. But compared to other performances this season, I thought that was acceptable.

A good balanced post in amongst the slaverfest that’s been building up during our winning run. 
 

That little bit of quality is missing that makes everything else tick. Shanklands, Cochrane, Vargas and Tagawa’s fresh air swipe  from 6-7 yards shows we created chances. We controlled a lot of the game and considering our history in these fixtures we had a lot of possession. Yes Rangers had a few chances in the second half but we were chasing the game and most have had 6 attack minded players on the park. 

[August Landmesser]

9 hours ago, Balaclava said:

They weren’t wonder saves let’s not get carried away

Fair enough, just watched them back on sportscene. They were still saves that needed to be made though.

[4marsbars]

16 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Yes. McGovern is adequate cover and we need a pathway for Stone.

 

But Clark is younger than, and presumably better than, McGovern. 

[One five]

1 minute ago, Bazzas right boot said:

We lack a bit fluency,  everything seems a bit routine and laboured.

 

Brilliant chance to go 1-0 up and blew it,  evert game we play seems to hinge on small moments ot margins.

 

Nobody was terrible ( Aki struggled a bit) but no one stood out ether.

 

Aa a side note, That foul, laye on after the 1-2 on tbe edge of their box was laughable, we were in with a chance there.

 

Rangers are better but we are a bit "meh" at the moment.

 

What is coming clear imo, None of the new signings * apart from Kent) offer much just now.

Hoff is OK, but the reality is Oda, Tagawa and Vargas offer little,  Forrest offered more in 5 minutes than all 3 combined.

Forest and Mckay will remain our best wide options and  Boyce, despite his lack of pace is our best other forward.

 

Aberdeen, hibs and St Mirren all beat tho in what continues to be a tight league!

Agree with that, I’ve been pretty disappointed in our signing except Kent, no strength in the midfield and apart from Shanks we don’t have much a goal scoring threat up front.

[ScandinavianJambo]

10 hours ago, Morgan said:

Two cracking ‘hip’ comments in one post!  

I gathering you are being sarcastic? Hip comments, sorry sir I am too old for being hip. More likely boardroom comments, could even call them platitudes. But hip, no.

[Ex member of the SaS]

TBF I thought we played better than we have the last few weeks. There are still some glaring problems though. Too slow going forward ( we have been since RN ) too many passes going straight to them, and we desperately need a striker. Shanks is good but far too often he is out of position  when we break forward and is ALWAYS back defending when we need an out ball. Selections and subs are still a bit of a mystery. We were unlucky not to score, but a proven striker would not boot the ball straight at the blocking player. A bit more composure ( especially in defense ) and better control would see this team rock on. Too often panicked in the box and ended up just booting it anywhere when a controlled out ball would have put them under pressure and stopped the ball coming straight back at us.

[DG_HMFC]

43 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

😂 why do you bother if you obviously hate Hearts and aren’t willing to acknowledge anything positive. ⛑️

 

 

 

Hate Hearts 🤣

 

Aye, no bother.

[Ex member of the SaS]

No ref thread? He was not too bad but still managed to allow them to do what they wanted and should have carded Tavernier early on. Also managed to see a foul when we were attacking on the edge of their box. Gave a throw the wrong way too.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

Thought we played ok in the first half without being overly brilliant.  We limited Rangers at our end and started to get wee sniffs of their goal.

 

Then the subs contributed to our disjointedness.  Completely didn’t understand it? (Apologies if confirmed Atkinson and Grant picked up knocks but I’ve not heard?).

 

Atkinson wasn’t playing too well but he wasnt a disaster. Grant had grown into the game and was giving us a link to the frontmen.

 

We lost any kind of control we had and the second half was hugely disappointing apart from a late rally. 

Mostly agree but the goal was Atkinson’s fault, completely lost his man.  Assisted by Beni and Kingsley both towing a caravan and Clark caught in no man’s land.  A real shitty goal to lose but on the flip side it was the one bit of good play from Rangers on the night - they scored from playing it out from a goal kick by playing it around our high press. 

[FJT]

15 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

TBF I thought we played better than we have the last few weeks. There are still some glaring problems though. Too slow going forward ( we have been since RN ) too many passes going straight to them, and we desperately need a striker. Shanks is good but far too often he is out of position  when we break forward and is ALWAYS back defending when we need an out ball. Selections and subs are still a bit of a mystery. We were unlucky not to score, but a proven striker would not boot the ball straight at the blocking player. A bit more composure ( especially in defense ) and better control would see this team rock on. Too often panicked in the box and ended up just booting it anywhere when a controlled out ball would have put them under pressure and stopped the ball coming straight back at us.

Yes. Good points. 
Although I’m obviously disappointed to get nothing from the game, I actually think if we perform like that, even though we’re not great, we’d probably win against most of the rest of our league! Right back, attacking midfielder and another striker please Santa!

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

No ref thread? He was not too bad but still managed to allow them to do what they wanted and should have carded Tavernier early on. Also managed to see a foul when we were attacking on the edge of their box. Gave a throw the wrong way too.

Tavernier took a lot of the ball so I’ve no real complaints about that.  I was raging at that “foul” he gave Rangers at the end though when we were attacking just outside their box.  A disgraceful decision.  But a pretty uneventful performance from Collum overall. 

[Cruickie's Moustache]

49 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Replacing Hoff with a ball carrying midfielder like Cantwell would transform this team.
 

We can’t rely on tricky wingers to conjure up something every time, we need runners breaking the lines and playing passes to our strikers in the final third and not on the half way line. 

Been saying the same for ages.

We need someone capable of running it up the gut.

Otherwise we are predictable in terms of trying to go wide then crossing high balls towards CBs that are bigger and stronger than our forwards.

 

The lack of an attacking central midfielder also results the headed clearances landing at the feet of Beni,Devlin and Hof who don't seem to have a shot in them. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Tavernier took a lot of the ball so I’ve no real complaints about that.  I was raging at that “foul” he gave Rangers at the end though when we were attacking just outside their box.  A disgraceful decision.  But a pretty uneventful performance from Collum overall. 

He got some of the ball but it was a tackle from behind and went through the player to get a touch. He gave the foul so should have given a card too. Can't remember who it was ( maybe Vargas? ) got a card for running alongside the player who then went to ground under very little pressure. A foul maybe ( I don't think it was ) but certainly not a card and nothing like Tavernier's.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, Sherbet said:

Said before   when oda first came he would take on the full back and make for the bye line  now he cuts inside. No.doubt negative coaching

That’ll be it, the manager and coaches will all be telling him to cut inside all the time and never hit the bye line.  Course they will. 😂

[AC Mallin_51]

Was far from great but definitely seen worse. We were a bit unlucky to not go 1-0 up. Equally as lucky not to conceded more. On another day that finishes 1-1 and other days that finishes 4-0. I personally thought a narrow defeat was the right result. We can talk about how this is “the worst rangers team in years” (which I really do not think is true. When they first came back up and under Pedro Caxinha, even Gerrard at times they looked worse than they do now) but they still have a hell of a lot better players at their disposal than we do. It’s always going to be difficult against Rangers and Celtic for the simple reason they’ve more money at their disposal to buy and pay substantially better players than the rest of the league. Playing them 4 times each a season is brutal and a reminder that unless that ever changes there is absolutely no way anyone will ever ever compete with them over the course of a season. Over 8 games though I would like to see us start taking something from them, it’s frustrating to see garbage like Motherwell and St Johnstone go to Celtic Park and get a draw, or a horrendous Aberdeen team take 4 points from 2 games against Rangers. I personally thought it was a bit better than it has been at Tynecastle against either of them recently, I mean at least we didn’t concede in the first 5 minutes. And all that separated us in the end was a defensive error. However it’s another defeat to that lot. Look forward to the day we finally get a victory over one of them again 

[john thomas]

52 minutes ago, Dazo said:

A good balanced post in amongst the slaverfest that’s been building up during our winning run. 
 

That little bit of quality is missing that makes everything else tick. Shanklands, Cochrane, Vargas and Tagawa’s fresh air swipe  from 6-7 yards shows we created chances. We controlled a lot of the game and considering our history in these fixtures we had a lot of possession. Yes Rangers had a few chances in the second half but we were chasing the game and most have had 6 attack minded players on the park. 

Indeed , finally some rational comments 

[Sherbet]

5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’ll be it, the manager and coaches will all be telling him to cut inside all the time and never hit the bye line.  Course they will. 😂

well...thats what he does 9 times out of 10

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

He got some of the ball but it was a tackle from behind and went through the player to get a touch. He gave the foul so should have given a card too. Can't remember who it was ( maybe Vargas? ) got a card for running alongside the player who then went to ground under very little pressure. A foul maybe ( I don't think it was ) but certainly not a card and nothing like Tavernier's.

You need to take the maroon goggles off mate, the Vargas one was a yellow all day long and piss poor play from him - took a pass back facing goal, tried to control it and his first touch is abysmal and bounces 5 yards off him.  Then tracks back and fouls him from behind, nowhere near the ball to stop the break. The very definition of a yellow. 
 

My first reaction on the Tavernier one was also yellow but on seeing the replay, not for me.  Possibly a foul these days but that was a great tackle a few years ago!

[Cruyff]

We just don't create enough chances. 

 

Need to spend a fortune on a central mid that's a class above. Bruno Aguiar type.

[Bickfest]

2 takeaways for me. First, Beni is not (yet) the player he was, perhaps he never will be. He laboured last night. He has never been pacy, but he now seems to lack confidence as well. Maybe he needs more time, but I don't think he and the Hoff make a great pairing anyway. More than once last night they got in each other's way and lost possession. Nieuwenhof, who i think will improve considerably over time and is the better prospect, would be better suited to playing alongside Devlin in the "engine room" imo, someone more mobile and energetic than Beni. 

 

Second, as a few have said, Kingsley looked distinctly uncomfortable at RCB, as he also did against St J. I think that, despite his occasional brain farts, Sibbick would have given us a better balance at the back along with considerably more pace. It was Kingsley's lack of pace which was partly responsible for the goal. If that had been Sibbick instead, Sima would have had to work much harder for the opportunity.

 

In addition, it was good to see Natty and McKay back. Along with Lowry they will make us a much greater threat going forward, provide more scoring opportunities and will serve up much more entertaining football.

 

Quite a bit to look forward to.

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

well...thats what he does 9 times out of 10

And you think he is being coached to do that?  Seriously?  If it suits your agenda I suppose it’s easy to make up shit about the coaching instead of poor player decision making. 

 

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

You need to take the maroon goggles off mate, the Vargas one was a yellow all day long and piss poor play from him - took a pass back facing goal, tried to control it and his first touch is abysmal and bounces 5 yards off him.  Then tracks back and fouls him from behind, nowhere near the ball to stop the break. The very definition of a yellow. 
 

My first reaction on the Tavernier one was also yellow but on seeing the replay, not for me.  Possibly a foul these days but that was a great tackle a few years ago!

Your first reaction was a card then that should also apply to the ref as he only see's it once. The simple fact it was Tavernier that got him a freeby. Any player out with the bigots would have got a card .

[Ex member of the SaS]

2 minutes ago, Bickfest said:

2 takeaways for me. First, Beni is not (yet) the player he was, perhaps he never will be. He laboured last night. He has never been pacy, but he now seems to lack confidence as well. Maybe he needs more time, but I don't think he and the Hoff make a great pairing anyway. More than once last night they got in each other's way and lost possession. Nieuwenhof, who i think will improve considerably over time and is the better prospect, would be better suited to playing alongside Devlin in the "engine room" imo, someone more mobile and energetic than Beni. 

 

Second, as a few have said, Kingsley looked distinctly uncomfortable at RCB, as he also did against St J. I think that, despite his occasional brain farts, Sibbick would have given us a better balance at the back along with considerably more pace. It was Kingsley's lack of pace which was partly responsible for the goal. If that had been Sibbick instead, Sima would have had to work much harder for the opportunity.

 

In addition, it was good to see Natty and McKay back. Along with Lowry they will make us a much greater threat going forward, provide more scoring opportunities and will serve up much more entertaining football.

 

Quite a bit to look forward to.

 

Wingers performances come and go so competition for places is always good, Lowry and Mckay fighting for a game will improve the team.

[Byyy The Light]

1 hour ago, Ronald Villiers said:

We're too slow and ponderous in possession.  We always slowly play it along the back line and before it ends up at the other winger/wingback, they're already closed down by the time the ball reaches them.  We then repeat and the ball ends up with Clark.  No clue what they're being told to do.  Hopefully get some quality in in January.  Couple of signings and the guys coming back from injury will be a shot in the arm.  A big striker, RB and creative midfielder who can drive us forward and put a decent ball in the box would be great.

 

Exactly this. Hof and Beni in particular need to be braver and play the tight pass quicker. So many times last night Beni got the ball and looked terrified to play the quick pass out wide.  Hesitate for a couple of seconds and the opportunity is gone.  His default is to turn back on himself rather than drive forward and exploit the space. Must be a confidence thing as he did it no problem before he was injured.  Rowles is the only one who plays passes forward firm enough.

 

 

[Chimp]

2 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

 

Exactly this. Hof and Beni in particular need to be braver and play the tight pass quicker. So many times last night Beni got the ball and looked terrified to play the quick pass out wide.  Hesitate for a couple of seconds and the opportunity is gone.  His default is to turn back on himself rather than drive forward and exploit the space. Must be a confidence thing as he did it no problem before he was injured.  Rowles is the only one who plays passes forward firm enough.

 

 

 

Yep, he's been very good at that recently. Not scared to drive forward and pick a pass. 

[Nelly Terraces]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

Replacing Hoff with a ball carrying midfielder like Cantwell would transform this team.
 

We can’t rely on tricky wingers to conjure up something every time, we need runners breaking the lines and playing passes to our strikers in the final third and not on the half way line. 

Replacing him with a statue would have more impact. Another dreadful signing, reminds me of some of the guys we had playing for us in the late 70s. You don't have to go all the way to Australia to find such poor footballers, Scotland's full of them.

[HopeDiouf]

16 hours ago, GinRummy said:

He played and kept his place though, despite opposition for his place in the side. Unlike Calum Elliot and Calumn Morrison, thankfully we generally had other options during those times.

only got a chance cause others got injured and Bobby Burns was honking, otherwise who knows when he'd have got a chance.

[GinRummy]

14 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

only got a chance cause others got injured and Bobby Burns was honking, otherwise who knows when he'd have got a chance.

I hear what you’re saying and I’m no expert on youth development but I don’t know what the answer is. All this chat of pathways just seems like a load of shite to me (no disrespect to you or anyone else). It’s not as if we’ve got a squad full of journeyman like we used to have and our excellent youth players are struggling to get game time because of them. As far as I can make out from the guys who got to watch the young players there’s nobody in the lowland league team that would improve the squad. The one guy who has broke into the squad, Denholm, already gets game time ahead of Halliday and Haring so I don’t really see an issue. We run with a budget so when or if it’s decided Stone is better than one or two of our keepers and he’s ready for a place in the squad then one of the existing 3 drop out and are sold or their contract runs down. Until then, we need 3 keepers in the squad. 

[HopeDiouf]

10 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

And the Vargas chance that came from good play by Forrest on the left wing.

half chance for me.  Cochrane, i'd expect to score.  Vargas, I think could've scored, but I wouldn't expect him to score that.  (ie Cochrane gets a bit of stick for not scoring, Vargas doersn't for me - he struck it fine).

[naeclue]

I think we need an effective partner for Beni in midfield, someone that he can exchange short passes with.  That said, I thought he had a massive game for us defensively.

 

Rangers pressed us all over the pitch, and that’s tough to deal with.

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, GinRummy said:

I hear what you’re saying and I’m no expert on youth development but I don’t know what the answer is. All this chat of pathways just seems like a load of shite to me (no disrespect to you or anyone else). It’s not as if we’ve got a squad full of journeyman like we used to have and our excellent youth players are struggling to get game time because of them. As far as I can make out from the guys who got to watch the young players there’s nobody in the lowland league team that would improve the squad. The one guy who has broke into the squad, Denholm, already gets game time ahead of Halliday and Haring so I don’t really see an issue. We run with a budget so when or if it’s decided Stone is better than one or two of our keepers and he’s ready for a place in the squad then one of the existing 3 drop out and are sold or their contract runs down. Until then, we need 3 keepers in the squad. 

For me, if CG is back, we could prob ditch McGovern.  But maybe not on a huge wage.

[5jambo1]

46 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Wingers performances come and go so competition for places is always good, Lowry and Mckay fighting for a game will improve the team.

just thinking about this. Sticking with the 3-5-2 we have been playing lately, should we play McKay and Lowry as the advanced midfielder and parter to Shankland? Both basically get free roles and get told to make things happen? Obviously one of them would need to drop in when we lose possession but could be one to try. Something has not clicked going forward this season. We don’t seem to be creating chances although we are so much better at ‘controlling’ games without actually creating chances and being teams by 2 or 3. McKay and Lowry are two players who have the ability to pick a pass or go by someone to make something happen. 

[Stewart MacD]

2 hours ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

Tagawa, Oda and Vargas are more than good enough at this level. 

It's happened before: they're being coached out of the qualities that made them attractive signings. take a leaf out of Postecoglou's book and adapt.

[naeclue]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Mostly agree but the goal was Atkinson’s fault, completely lost his man.  Assisted by Beni and Kingsley both towing a caravan and Clark caught in no man’s land.  A real shitty goal to lose but on the flip side it was the one bit of good play from Rangers on the night - they scored from playing it out from a goal kick by playing it around our high press. 

The goal was a practiced training ground move - they worked the press to open us up and make space for the pass to Sima. It was a really nice piece of play.

 

Clarke would have been better off hanging back, but Rangers designed that move and executed it. Clement said as much in his post match interview).

 

I think if we scored first, we’d have won the match. 

[Wish]

It was known for ages the Michael Smith was coming to the end of his time at Hearts, yet we here we are, still waiting on a decent RB being signed. Foresight and planning of the management team/recruitment/scouting woeful.

 

Crying out for another midfielder as recruitment there, again, has been woeful. Another forward needed, and if Shanks goes were are daffied.

 

Savage and co need to get their collective fingers out of there backsides.

 

 

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Wrong thread

Edited December 7, 2023 by We_are_the_Hearts

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, Stewart MacD said:

It's happened before: they're being coached out of the qualities that made them attractive signings. take a leaf out of Postecoglou's book and adapt.

Or they’re just more poor signings to add to an ever expanding list.  Still early days for all 3 but piling on the coaching staff and making stuff up when they’re new signings and one in particular has hardly had any game time is a baseless cheap shot but so JKB these days.  Neilson didn’t seem to rate Oda and Naismith has got more out of him although mostly at the end of last season. 

[Nookie Bear]

36 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Replacing him with a statue would have more impact. Another dreadful signing, reminds me of some of the guys we had playing for us in the late 70s. You don't have to go all the way to Australia to find such poor footballers, Scotland's full of them.

 

I suspect he has good passing % stats blah blah blah

 

The sort of ineffective midfielder we excel in buying.

[GinRummy]

11 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

For me, if CG is back, we could prob ditch McGovern.  But maybe not on a huge wage.

Fair enough mate. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 minutes ago, naeclue said:

The goal was a practiced training ground move - they worked the press to open us up and make space for the pass to Sima. It was a really nice piece of play.

 

Clarke would have been better off hanging back, but Rangers designed that move and executed it. Clement said as much in his post match interview).

 

I think if we scored first, we’d have won the match. 

That’s petty much what I said.  Good move from Rangers but only a goal due to catastrophic defending from multiple players. 

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

Wrong thread

They’re all much the same today anyway😂

[gar jambo]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

We just don't create enough chances. 

 

Need to spend a fortune on a central mid that's a class above. Bruno Aguiar type.

And this is all down to the midfield they are a yard off it  the strikers have to make their own chances ! Yep huge gap in the midfield 

[naeclue]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s petty much what I said.  Good move from Rangers but only a goal due to catastrophic defending from multiple players. 

I’d give more credit to Rangers and less blame to our players, but we’re pretty much in agreement (in kickback terms anyway 🙂)

[Robbo-Jambo]

2 hours ago, Archie White said:

It's actually unfair to blame any of the players for last night's defeat. They are no doubt doing the best they can. The truth is that their best is just not good enough. Blame of any kind should fall at the feet of the recruitment team. Their decision making on the players we have signed in the recent windows has been appalling. Other than Kent there is not one recent signing that has improved the quality of the squad. Savage crows about extending the contract of Boyce, a 32 year old, slower than Shankland who can't score goals. It's pathetic. We have been crying out for attacking midfielders for years and we keep buying defensive ones. We play a good LB who has no right foot at RB because recruitment has failed in that position. Why Savage is still at the club amazes me.  

Good post

[Fozzyonthefence]

Just now, naeclue said:

I’d give more credit to Rangers and less blame to our players, but we’re pretty much in agreement (in kickback terms anyway 🙂)

Nah personally I’d give more blame to our players, it would be an insult to schoolboys to call it schoolboy defending! I don’t think the ball from Tavernier was that great either but Atkinson and Kingsley (and even Clark) made it into a great pass for Sima.  
 

Safe to say we won’t score a goal like that this season though!

[Robbo-Jambo]

47 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Replacing him with a statue would have more impact. Another dreadful signing, reminds me of some of the guys we had playing for us in the late 70s. You don't have to go all the way to Australia to find such poor footballers, Scotland's full of them.

How we done our homework and chased this guy is beyond me.

 

He is like a wee boy playing against men.

[Sherbet]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

And you think he is being coached to do that?  Seriously?  If it suits your agenda I suppose it’s easy to make up shit about the coaching instead of poor player decision making. 

 

 

Each to their own opinion.  Who tells them to pass sideways and backwards in their own half

[ritchcook]

I've just watched the game back from last night to confirm the refereeing was as bad as I thought at the game. I get people can make mistakes and as a fan, you may have maroon-tinted glasses if it's shared out I could live with it but it's not. Three times we have played Rangers and on all three occasions, I have come away fecked off. It's the little things like pulling back play to stop a Hearts attack or a booking when the same punishment is not handed to a player in blue. I pay my money just like a Rangers fan so I and my team should be treated the same. That includes a TV deal that has my team shown live for a proportional amount of time to other teams. Rant over!

Edited December 7, 2023 by ritchcook
missed word

[Clerry Jambo]

Maybe mentioned already haven’t read whole thread but Forrest looked the most lively out of Vargas Oda and tagawa - Vargas and Oda especially need to step up to aid shanks 

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Mostly agree but the goal was Atkinson’s fault, completely lost his man.  Assisted by Beni and Kingsley both towing a caravan and Clark caught in no man’s land.  A real shitty goal to lose but on the flip side it was the one bit of good play from Rangers on the night - they scored from playing it out from a goal kick by playing it around our high press. 

Cochrane started the process by being slow to press, as he was all night and Kent was nowhere to be seen.