*****Official Heart of Midlothian v Rangers Match Thread *****

[Byyy The Light]

21 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

It was simple last 20. Balls down the flank for oda 1v1 vs sterling and he kept coming inside. Bizarre. No other reason than for management instruction. 
 

I will concede, the one time he took him on we were in. Correct?

I think they’ve both been told not to go to 1 v 1 because if they lose it then we’re fecked and they’ll smash us on the counter 

[Byyy The Light]

26 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Naismith is learning on the job,the players are learning his new style and the club are learning as a whole.It needs loads of time….

You’re funny as. Always enjoy your posts 

[Maple Leaf]

For personal reasons, I was able to watch only the last 10 minutes of the game.   I think I was one of the lucky ones.

 

I was struck by the lack of urgency.  Sideways or backwards always seemed to be the preferred option from our guys.  We appeared clueless when it came to generating chances.

 

When it comes to throw-ins, all I can say is FFS.  One throw-in by Kingsley took about 30 seconds because no Hearts player was moving into open space.  Kingsley eventually threw it in ... one touch later Rangers had possession.  As has been asked before on other threads in recent weeks, what do we do at practice?

 

 

 

[Carter]

28 minutes ago, feedthefox said:

Apparently there was 17,700 there tonight. I know I know that they count season tickets whether you come or not but it makes a farce of the whole attendance figures, from where I was sitting I'd say every 5th seat was empty. I'd also say it's a complete library these days ,while I understand the rationale behind giving everyone bar Hibs a vastly reduced away end it has killed the atmosphere as Hearts fans don't feel the need to have to drown out the away end. Wednesday night under the lights games especially v Old Firm used to be proper lively affairs, it was a complete shadow of that tonight.

Loads of empty seats tonight. All across the stadium. 

[Chimp]

26 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Agreed. He will come good, but only when we play balls in behind for him. 

👍🏼

[maroonsgotop]

gutless and disappointing performance against a really poor Sevco side

[periodictabledancer]

Helter skelter football, no composure on the ball, wacko decsion making and fundamental errors all over the place.

Not a problem playing the dross when it's this bad as we likely get away with it.

But tonight it's the same old stuff.

[ArcticJambo]

29 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Another tedious 90 minutes where we really just go through the motions, very slowly & laboriously, in a game between 2 very poor, technically deficient, sides.

 

It's hard to bother even getting worked up at it now, I'm so used to watching this boring rubbish every week. Hearts are just footballing beige. 

sums it up for me.

[jambmoz]

Rangers really aren’t very good but unfortunately we aren’t good enough to take advantage. Unfortunately it is what it is.  Shanklands biggest fault was highlighted tonight as he’s ridiculously slow flat out.

[151]

Not long in as had to drop family off on way home. 

 

Probably the worst The Rangers side since the Championship days and we didn't really do anything of any note to trouble them. Thought we were slower than usual especially through Beni. 

 

Did anyone else notice Neiwenhof hiding behind his man every time we try and play out from the back. Was comical viewing from the Roseburn as wherever Cantwell went he went. Almost like he was marking him. 

 

 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

In a way that was the best we have played against that mob for a while in the sense of possession anyway but the ball always seemed to break in their favour plus they had Collum as a 12th man, no surprises there. However, our use of the ball is still far too ponderous and the momentum slowed down so much in the second half that the late flurry looked like a token gesture although Oda at least looked lively and willing to run with the ball rather than pass it backwards like the rest. Tagawa had a decent first half but the service to him dried up as the game wore on.

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

Helter skelter football, no composure on the ball, wacko decsion making and fundamental errors all over the place.

Not a problem playing the dross when it's this bad as we likely get away with it.

But tonight it's the same old stuff.

Spot on

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, jambmoz said:

Rangers really aren’t very good but unfortunately we aren’t good enough to take advantage. Unfortunately it is what it is.  Shanklands biggest fault was highlighted tonight as he’s ridiculously slow flat out.

Absolutely 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just back home now , no real damage done with other results going our way thankfully ! Massive positives to see Gordon , Atkinson , Halkett and McKay back in matchday squad but with benefit of hindsight was probably too soon to ask Atkinson to start especially against Rangers

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

In a way that was the best we have played against that mob for a while in the sense of possession anyway but the ball always seemed to break in their favour plus they had Collum as a 12th man, no surprises there. However, our use of the ball is still far too ponderous and the momentum slowed down so much in the second half that the late flurry looked like a token gesture although Oda at least looked lively and willing to run with the ball rather than pass it backwards like the rest. Tagawa had a decent first half but the service to him dried up as the game wore on.

I would honestly rather attempt forward passes than just keep the ball by going sideways and back all the time. Almost like keeping possession for the sake of it, we dont create any space by doing it. We have watched this style for years and haven’t progressed at all this season. 

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, 151 said:

Not long in as had to drop family off on way home. 

 

Probably the worst The Rangers side since the Championship days and we didn't really do anything of any note to trouble them. Thought we were slower than usual especially through Beni. 

 

Did anyone else notice Neiwenhof hiding behind his man every time we try and play out from the back. Was comical viewing from the Roseburn as wherever Cantwell went he went. Almost like he was marking him. 

 

 

Spot on.
They’re full of average English Championship players and miles behind Celtic. 

We made them look better than they are again by playing the same way thats seen us lose 3 times in 6 weeks to them. 

[bawheed]

13 minutes ago, 151 said:

Not long in as had to drop family off on way home. 

 

Probably the worst The Rangers side since the Championship days and we didn't really do anything of any note to trouble them. Thought we were slower than usual especially through Beni. 

 

Did anyone else notice Neiwenhof hiding behind his man every time we try and play out from the back. Was comical viewing from the Roseburn as wherever Cantwell went he went. Almost like he was marking him. 

 

 

100% but Beni not the player he was

Neiwenhof another Kio but slightly better.

[1971fozzy]

I sort of agree with Naismith. There were some good moments but as usual a brain fart moment costs us against them. Kingsley should have intercepted that through ball and totally lost his positioning and Clark was nowhere near being in the right position. 
we could of had a couple but they could of had 3 or 4.

 

rangers had 4 outstanding performances from Tavernier (as usual), Goldson, Canteell and McCausland. That was the difference for me

 

frustratingly we still seem reluctant to shoot and I’m sick of never leaving a man up when we defend corners. We never have an outball and all it does is invite the inevitable return in pressure

Edited December 7, 2023 by 1971fozzy

[EIEIO]

13 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

In a way that was the best we have played against that mob for a while in the sense of possession anyway but the ball always seemed to break in their favour plus they had Collum as a 12th man, no surprises there. However, our use of the ball is still far too ponderous and the momentum slowed down so much in the second half that the late flurry looked like a token gesture although Oda at least looked lively and willing to run with the ball rather than pass it backwards like the rest. Tagawa had a decent first half but the service to him dried up as the game wore on.

Agree with you , we make 6 passes to achieve something that could be achieved by 3 passes. More urgency required.

We did force a couple of good saves from their keeper but while they are nothing special they had enough to beat us relatively comfortably.

[amadjambo]

All the money we made last season and somehow we have ended up with a worse team. We went from having players like Ginnelly and Humphrys, real attacking threats, to the likes of Grant being a starter. No surprise we barely create any chances. 
 

No pace in the team, no creativity in midfield, midfielders that can barely put a tackle in (apart from Devlin) and full backs that can’t defend. The one big improvement is we actually win a few headers at the back since Kent came into the team. 
 

Hope to god Shankland doesn’t leave or get injured. We’d be well screwed without him.

[7PNJ4]

This feels too doom and gloom for not a bad performance. Goal is incredibly frustrating but aside from that they didn't have many moments where it felt like it was only a matter of time before they scored. Some of their best chances came from long balls/knock-downs but ultimately we didn't concede from those. If the ball breaks the right way we probably score two as well - not something you often say against the old firm. Free kick against Niuewenhof at the end is a disgrace as well because he wins the ball and Forrest is in. Grant sub strange to me as he looked lively first half. Quietly confident for Saturday. 

[Des Lynam]

We are so slow as a team. Every goal kick, keeper throw out, throw in etc etc is so laborious. 
 

 

[tiger Rudi]

26 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Tagawa had a decent first half but the service to him dried up as the game wore on.

I thought so too. Felt we lost momentum and a player linking with the forwards when we changed shape at half time. Neither Hoff or Beni got anywhere near their box like Grant had been doing. 

We looked far better with someone playing in the 10 role. 

[john thomas]

55 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

I sort of agree with Naismith. There were some good moments but as usual a brain fart moment costs us against them. Kingsley should have intercepted that through ball and totally lost his positioning and Clark was nowhere near being in the right position. 
we could of had a couple but they could of had 3 or 4.

 

rangers had 4 outstanding performances from Tavernier (as usual), Goldson, Canteell and McCausland. That was the difference for me

 

frustratingly we still seem reluctant to shoot and I’m sick of never leaving a man up when we defend corners. We never have an outball and all it does is invite the inevitable return in pressure

Yes a mixed team performance but nothing resembling what is described on here .

Negativity from our fans is depressing 

[fila]

 

1 hour ago, amadjambo said:

All the money we made last season and somehow we have ended up with a worse team. We went from having players like Ginnelly and Humphrys, real attacking threats, to the likes of Grant being a starter. No surprise we barely create any chances. 
 

No pace in the team, no creativity in midfield, midfielders that can barely put a tackle in (apart from Devlin) and full backs that can’t defend. The one big improvement is we actually win a few headers at the back since Kent came into the team. 
 

Hope to god Shankland doesn’t leave or get injured. We’d be well screwed without him.

 

Great post, Grant should be shown the door. In the main our recent transfer  business has not been good enough

[Arthur Morgan]

2 hours ago, amadjambo said:

All the money we made last season and somehow we have ended up with a worse team. We went from having players like Ginnelly and Humphrys, real attacking threats, to the likes of Grant being a starter. No surprise we barely create any chances. 
 

No pace in the team, no creativity in midfield, midfielders that can barely put a tackle in (apart from Devlin) and full backs that can’t defend. The one big improvement is we actually win a few headers at the back since Kent came into the team. 
 

Hope to god Shankland doesn’t leave or get injured. We’d be well screwed without him.

 

We do have some pace in the team though. Oda is fast, Vargas is fast, Tagawa is fast. They just maybe aren't at the level we need, though 😬. Ginnelly has been the biggest miss as you said.

 

McKay will help when he's fit, and Lowry is pretty creative, just a bit raw. Not our player though.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Arthur Morgan

[DG_HMFC]

4 hours ago, Byyy The Light said:

Aside from Cochrane’s shot blocked on the line 

 

The ball fell kindly for Cochrane, it never came from any good pattern of play. The Rangers goal came from a defence splitting pass for their striker  to run onto and score. Our players seem incapable of playing those passes 

[Bainy]

We should be breaking the bank in January for a creative attacking midfielder, in fact 2! 

 

It's so glaringly obvious.  Sick of seeing shankland in the middle of the park feeding off scraps and getting frustrated. 

 

0 creativity in the middle. Calem Niewenhof actually won the ball back a few times on a high press only to then have a brain fart an give the ball right back to them with his pass. So many times in the second half your looking for your creative midfield players to pop into pockets of space to take the ball off rowels or Kent and there's nothing on so they just bang it over the top to nobody, or it's shankland dropping into that space to get the ball meaning there is nobody up front. 

 

I'll be amazed if savage let's another window go by without rectifying this. 

[Stewart MacD]

7 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

We looked the most threatening when we fed Tagawa.

 

I find it incredible that Tagawa, Vargas and Oda are getting it in the neck yet Shankland appears to be getting away scot free.

True, but Shankland had his work cut out shoring up the defence, which he shouldn't have had to do.

[151]

5 hours ago, amadjambo said:

All the money we made last season and somehow we have ended up with a worse team. We went from having players like Ginnelly and Humphrys, real attacking threats, to the likes of Grant being a starter. No surprise we barely create any chances. 
 

No pace in the team, no creativity in midfield, midfielders that can barely put a tackle in (apart from Devlin) and full backs that can’t defend. The one big improvement is we actually win a few headers at the back since Kent came into the team. 
 

Hope to god Shankland doesn’t leave or get injured. We’d be well screwed without him.

 

Pretty much this and was saying after the game that I can't believe the amount of bookings we recieved considering not one tackle was actually put in.

[colinmaroon]

7 hours ago, Doc Rob said:

We did create one clear-cut chance from good play, which went straight at Butland. The sort of chance you have to take if you want to beat a better team.

 

Two!

 

[gregzy2k7]

4 hours ago, fila said:

 

 

Great post, Grant should be shown the door. In the main our recent transfer  business has not been good enough

Yep agree,

 

For me he has been given more than enough of a chance now and has failed to show any sort of consistency, I would add Haliday, Haring, Forrest and Sibbick to that list, none of them are contributing enough to our first team, i feel if we could get rid of 2 or 3 of them, ideally all of them, the wages saved there would allow us to hopefully bring in guys who will contribute and improve our team.

[Debut 4]

Thought we played ok in the first half without being overly brilliant.  We limited Rangers at our end and started to get wee sniffs of their goal.

 

Then the subs contributed to our disjointedness.  Completely didn’t understand it? (Apologies if confirmed Atkinson and Grant picked up knocks but I’ve not heard?).

 

Atkinson wasn’t playing too well but he wasnt a disaster. Grant had grown into the game and was giving us a link to the frontmen.

 

We lost any kind of control we had and the second half was hugely disappointing apart from a late rally. 

[Debut 4]

2 hours ago, Bainy said:

We should be breaking the bank in January for a creative attacking midfielder, in fact 2! 

 

It's so glaringly obvious.  Sick of seeing shankland in the middle of the park feeding off scraps and getting frustrated. 

 

0 creativity in the middle. Calem Niewenhof actually won the ball back a few times on a high press only to then have a brain fart an give the ball right back to them with his pass. So many times in the second half your looking for your creative midfield players to pop into pockets of space to take the ball off rowels or Kent and there's nothing on so they just bang it over the top to nobody, or it's shankland dropping into that space to get the ball meaning there is nobody up front. 

 

I'll be amazed if savage let's another window go by without rectifying this. 

Neuiwenhoff is too negative.  He’s actually got the attributes to be more positive but his mindset is always safety first ,even when he has room to open up and look ahead.  

 
Beni looks like he’s still toiling. Feel for him and wonder if his injury has impacted him more than expected?
 

[Debut 4]

6 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

We are so slow as a team. Every goal kick, keeper throw out, throw in etc etc is so laborious. 
 

 

Aye, there seems a distinct lack of urgency and spontaneity at moments we need it. We look too scripted.  
 

I think Kent was the only one I saw looking to take a quick, short free kick to get it moving again in the second half late on, also gesturing to his team mates to react.  
 

Then at a few corners we won we sauntered or looked like no one was in a rush.  Baffling mindset to be in. 

[Byyy The Light]

3 hours ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

The ball fell kindly for Cochrane, it never came from any good pattern of play. The Rangers goal came from a defence splitting pass for their striker  to run onto and score. Our players seem incapable of playing those passes 

 

First 20 secs. 

 

[ramrod]

Some real hyperbole on this thread. 

The simple facts are we don't have enough quality in the final third.

Tagawa, Oda, Vargas , Forrest all work hard enough but they are nowhere near good enough at this level, that's the sad reality.

Recruitment in this area has to be better going forward if we are to get closer to them and that costs serious money unless we can pull a couple of rabbits out the hat. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by ramrod

[FJT]

7 hours ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

In a way that was the best we have played against that mob for a while in the sense of possession anyway but the ball always seemed to break in their favour plus they had Collum as a 12th man, no surprises there. However, our use of the ball is still far too ponderous and the momentum slowed down so much in the second half that the late flurry looked like a token gesture although Oda at least looked lively and willing to run with the ball rather than pass it backwards like the rest. Tagawa had a decent first half but the service to him dried up as the game wore on.

That pretty much mirrors how I saw it 

[Sherbet]

14 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Some real hyperbole on this thread. 

The simple facts are we don't have enough quality in the final third.

Tagawa, Oda, Vargas , Forrest all work hard enough but they are nowhere near good enough at this level, that's the sad reality.

Recruitment in this area has to be better going forward if we are to get closer to them and that costs serious money unless we can pull a couple of rabbits out the hat. 

Said before   when oda first came he would take on the full back and make for the bye line  now he cuts inside. No.doubt negative coaching

[DG_HMFC]

29 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

 

First 20 secs. 

 

 

No need to show me highlights, I was at the game. 

 

Cochrane's chance came from a save from the goal keeper. 

[spacerjoe]

3 hours ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

The ball fell kindly for Cochrane, it never came from any good pattern of play.

Yes it did.

 

3 hours ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

The Rangers goal came from a defence splitting pass for their striker  to run onto and score. Our players seem incapable of playing those passes 

Grant played a similar pass to Shankland on the break, first half. We just didn't score from it as their defender tracked him and Butland wasn't standing on the halfway line.

 

[spacerjoe]

2 minutes ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

No need to show me highlights, I was at the game. 

 

Cochrane's chance came from a save from the goal keeper. 

Why are you isolating Cochranes chance from Shanklands before it?

 

A great passage of play created Shanklands chance. A great save then gave Cochrane a chance at the rebound.

 

It's the same passage of play.

[DG_HMFC]

23 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Some real hyperbole on this thread. 

The simple facts are we don't have enough quality in the final third.

Tagawa, Oda, Vargas , Forrest all work hard enough but they are nowhere near good enough at this level, that's the sad reality.

Recruitment in this area has to be better going forward if we are to get closer to them and that costs serious money unless we can pull a couple of rabbits out the hat. 

 

Tagawa, Oda and Vargas are more than good enough at this level. 

[hearts00]

We need a target man up top. Or at least a unit. Oh to have a fit Stephen Humphrys right now. 
 

all the players we have signed are sharp abd technically okay but utter utter lightweights. 

[DG_HMFC]

2 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Why are you isolating Cochranes chance from Shanklands before it?

 

A great passage of play created Shanklands chance. A great save then gave Cochrane a chance at the rebound.

 

It's the same passage of play.

 

Cochrane's chance was the clear cut opportunity to score, that's why I am highlighting it. 

 

Fair enough, the build up play to create the half chance for Shankland was good but we don't see it anywhere near enough in a game.

[Byyy The Light]

7 minutes ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

No need to show me highlights, I was at the game. 

 

Cochrane's chance came from a save from the goal keeper. 

😂 why do you bother if you obviously hate Hearts and aren’t willing to acknowledge anything positive. ⛑️

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

7 hours ago, 151 said:

Not long in as had to drop family off on way home. 

 

Probably the worst The Rangers side since the Championship days and we didn't really do anything of any note to trouble them. Thought we were slower than usual especially through Beni. 

 

Did anyone else notice Neiwenhof hiding behind his man every time we try and play out from the back. Was comical viewing from the Roseburn as wherever Cantwell went he went. Almost like he was marking him. 

 

 

Replacing Hoff with a ball carrying midfielder like Cantwell would transform this team.
 

We can’t rely on tricky wingers to conjure up something every time, we need runners breaking the lines and playing passes to our strikers in the final third and not on the half way line. 

[Archie White]

It's actually unfair to blame any of the players for last night's defeat. They are no doubt doing the best they can. The truth is that their best is just not good enough. Blame of any kind should fall at the feet of the recruitment team. Their decision making on the players we have signed in the recent windows has been appalling. Other than Kent there is not one recent signing that has improved the quality of the squad. Savage crows about extending the contract of Boyce, a 32 year old, slower than Shankland who can't score goals. It's pathetic. We have been crying out for attacking midfielders for years and we keep buying defensive ones. We play a good LB who has no right foot at RB because recruitment has failed in that position. Why Savage is still at the club amazes me.  

[Bazzas right boot]

We lack a bit fluency,  everything seems a bit routine and laboured.

 

Brilliant chance to go 1-0 up and blew it,  every game we play seems to hinge on small moments ot margins.

 

Nobody was terrible ( Aki struggled a bit) but no one stood out ether.

 

Aa a side note, That foul, laye on after the 1-2 on the edge of their box was laughable, we were in with a chance there.

 

Rangers are better but we are a bit "meh" at the moment.

 

What is coming clear imo, None of the new signings * apart from Kent) offer much just now.

Hoff is OK, but the reality is Oda, Tagawa and Vargas offer little,  Forrest offered more in 5 minutes than all 3 combined.

Forest and Mckay will remain our best wide options and  Boyce, despite his lack of pace is our best other forward.

 

Aberdeen, hibs and St Mirren all beat tho in what continues to be a tight league!

Edited December 7, 2023 by Bazzas right boot

[Ronald Villiers]

We're too slow and ponderous in possession.  We always slowly play it along the back line and before it ends up at the other winger/wingback, they're already closed down by the time the ball reaches them.  We then repeat and the ball ends up with Clark.  No clue what they're being told to do.  Hopefully get some quality in in January.  Couple of signings and the guys coming back from injury will be a shot in the arm.  A big striker, RB and creative midfielder who can drive us forward and put a decent ball in the box would be great.