£41,373,478

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

 

Over £41 million pound in donations from benefactors and FOH since coming out of administration.

Looking back now with the bemefit of hindsight this is probably what the pie man meant when he said Tynecastle was not fit for purpose away back at that time but thankfully we've got very good supporters and very good benefactors who've secured our long term viability in Gorgie with a 24/7 stadium now.

[PapaShango]

24 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

 

Over £41 million pound in donations from benefactors and FOH since coming out of administration.

Looking back now with the bemefit of hindsight this is probably what the pie man meant when he said Tynecastle was not fit for purpose away back at that time but thankfully we've got very good supporters and very good benefactors who've secured our long term viability in Gorgie with a 24/7 stadium now.

Don't really correlate what the piemans statement back then has to do with the amount of donations. He looked for a quick buck by selling off the land and moving us to Murrayfield with no long term plan, effectively making us homeless. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

2 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

Don't really correlate what the piemans statement back then has to do with the amount of donations. He looked for a quick buck by selling off the land and moving us to Murrayfield with no long term plan, effectively making us homeless. 

Point I'm making is with the money been spent on the stadium since coming out administration back then being £22 million in debt assell as the many millions spent on the stadium he was probably right then to say Tynecastle wasn't fit for purpose

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Point I'm making is with the money been spent on the stadium since coming out administration back then being £22 million in debt assell as the many millions spent on the stadium he was probably right then to say Tynecastle wasn't fit for purpose

 

The buck stops with the person in charge, which was Pieman.  Walace Mercer left the club to him in a good state.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

The buck stops with the person in charge, which was Pieman.  Walace Mercer left the club to him in a good state.

Debatable, one stand finished eith teo more new ones plus a main stand rebuild to finish off.  Mercer got a nice payoff when he left as well. 

[frankblack]

Just now, davemclaren said:

Debatable, one stand finished eith teo more new ones plus a main stand rebuild to finish off.  Mercer got a nice payoff when he left as well. 

 

It was the SMG money and star signings like Petric that almost finished us.

[Sooks]

37 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

 

Over £41 million pound in donations from benefactors and FOH since coming out of administration.

Looking back now with the bemefit of hindsight this is probably what the pie man meant when he said Tynecastle was not fit for purpose away back at that time but thankfully we've got very good supporters and very good benefactors who've secured our long term viability in Gorgie with a 24/7 stadium now.

What Pieman meant , was “ I have ****ed up the finances , and I am going to sell the stadium to try and cover those debts “

 

The current regime has really helped us realise our potential to the constraints of our resources . To move further forward it would take the gift of cash to build a bigger stadium elsewhere than the potential support would attend , or to massively increase capacity at Tynecastle Park . Too many would not travel to somewhere far away from our current home . Tynecastle is too tightly woven in our fabric for that . It would be a waste of time because we would only be able to grow our support to what it is now after the initial loss of fans , and that would be crazy

 

IF we could get someone to pay for knocking down all the obstacles to a bigger Tynecastle and not have to pay them back , then our potential seriously starts to hit contender territory 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Sooks

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

It was the SMG money and star signings like Petric that almost finished us.

I agree but we were always in debt in those days. 

[Locky]

8 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Point I'm making is with the money been spent on the stadium since coming out administration back then being £22 million in debt assell as the many millions spent on the stadium he was probably right then to say Tynecastle wasn't fit for purpose

Tynecastle is fit for purpose though. Look at the transformation in the last 10 years. The old Main Stand (as much as I loved it) was a crumbling dump not suited to a club of the ambition we should have. The other 3 stands back then were a bit drab and needing a fresh lick. Now we have a lovely big modern stand which has increased capacity, as well as accommodating a top restaurant, hopefully a top hotel and other suites. The rest of the stadium has seen little changes that make it look a lot more like the home of a top flight club in the 21st century. The one thing you can't fault Ann Budge for in her tenure is the overall look of the club. I'll back her to the hilt on that one.

 

Pieman saw an opportunity to sell the land and make a quick buck which would have wiped a good chunk of our debt, but had no forethought for the practicalities of selling Tynecastle. That money would not have gone very far, and all of a sudden we'd have been playing in a soulless stadium that far outweighed our needs and have probably been running at a loss due to the operating costs and subsequent dwindling attendances. We certainly wouldn't have been in any position to build a new stadium fit for purpose.

 

Long story short, Pieman was wrong, Tynecastle very much is fit for purpose, and I am delighted that we're still at our home and will be for a very long time.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

13 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The buck stops with the person in charge, which was Pieman.  Walace Mercer left the club to him in a good state.

Point is we're in a very good place now with our stadium almost finished and it's 24/7

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

I agree but we were always in debt in those days. 

 

We were, but a manageable level.  The debt spiraled out of control due to some poor strategic decisions.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, Rick James said:

Tynecastle is fit for purpose though. Look at the transformation in the last 10 years. The old Main Stand (as much as I loved it) was a crumbling dump not suited to a club of the ambition we should have. The other 3 stands back then were a bit drab and needing a fresh lick. Now we have a lovely big modern stand which has increased capacity, as well as accommodating a top restaurant, hopefully a top hotel and other suites. The rest of the stadium has seen little changes that make it look a lot more like the home of a top flight club in the 21st century. The one thing you can't fault Ann Budge for in her tenure is the overall look of the club. I'll back her to the hilt on that one.

 

Pieman saw an opportunity to sell the land and make a quick buck which would have wiped a good chunk of our debt, but had no forethought for the practicalities of selling Tynecastle. That money would not have gone very far, and all of a sudden we'd have been playing in a soulless stadium that far outweighed our needs and have probably been running at a loss due to the operating costs and subsequent dwindling attendances. We certainly wouldn't have been in any position to build a new stadium fit for purpose.

 

Long story short, Pieman was wrong, Tynecastle very much is fit for purpose, and I am delighted that we're still at our home and will be for a very long time.

It is because of benefactors and FOH but it wasn't back then with us being £22 million. In debt and no such donations is all I'm saying

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

We were, but a manageable level.  The debt spiraled out of control due to some poor strategic decisions.

SMG wanting their money back was the one that tipped us over the edge. 

[Borders Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Rick James said:

Tynecastle is fit for purpose though. Look at the transformation in the last 10 years. The old Main Stand (as much as I loved it) was a crumbling dump not suited to a club of the ambition we should have. The other 3 stands back then were a bit drab and needing a fresh lick. Now we have a lovely big modern stand which has increased capacity, as well as accommodating a top restaurant, hopefully a top hotel and other suites. The rest of the stadium has seen little changes that make it look a lot more like the home of a top flight club in the 21st century. The one thing you can't fault Ann Budge for in her tenure is the overall look of the club. I'll back her to the hilt on that one.

 

Pieman saw an opportunity to sell the land and make a quick buck which would have wiped a good chunk of our debt, but had no forethought for the practicalities of selling Tynecastle. That money would not have gone very far, and all of a sudden we'd have been playing in a soulless stadium that far outweighed our needs and have probably been running at a loss due to the operating costs and subsequent dwindling attendances. We certainly wouldn't have been in any position to build a new stadium fit for purpose.

 

Long story short, Pieman was wrong, Tynecastle very much is fit for purpose, and I am delighted that we're still at our home and will be for a very long time.

Great post. We are lucky to have had people in charge with objectives in mind.

 I got the impression from Pieman that he had given up and wanted out.

[frankblack]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

SMG wanting their money back was the one that tipped us over the edge. 

 

Yes - we shouldn't have spent it on the basis that they wouldn't ask for it back!

[Carter]

15 minutes ago, Sooks said:

What Pieman meant , was “ I have ****ed up the finances , and I am going to sell the stadium to try and cover those debts “

 

The current regime has really helped us realise our potential to the constraints of our resources . To move further forward it would take the gift of cash to build a bigger stadium elsewhere than the potential support would attend , or to massively increase capacity at Tynecastle Park . Too many would not travel to somewhere far away from our current home . Tynecastle is too tightly woven in our fabric for that . It would be a waste of time because we would only be able to grow our support to what it is now after the initial loss of fans , and that would be crazy

 

IF we could get someone to pay for knocking down all the obstacles to a bigger Tynecastle and not have to pay them back , then our potential seriously starts to hit contender territory 

 

 

Basically. The club ran at an operating loss and we had to sell one of our better players each year to try and balance the books. We were by no means the only club operating unsustainable model. Very much impacted by the post Bosman era. Also had to try and rebuild the stadium. 

 

I've never doubted that CPR and LD were well intentioned. They were probably a bit out of their depth in all honesty. They had trouble keeping JJ reigned in, who had an insatiable appetite for signing players. The SMG deal was ruinous with the money largely squandered.

 

Disagree with the post above about him looking for a quick buck. He had backed himself into a corner. CPR was well and truly on the hook personally. Bank of Scotland should never have allowed the level of indebtedness to reach the levels they did. That was indicative of the prevailing conditions of the times though.

 

All part of the historical fabric of the club. Thank goodness we emerged from those times. 

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Yes - we shouldn't have spent it on the basis that they wouldn't ask for it back!

Unfortunately that was baked into the original deal. 

[Spellczech]

Pieman had no more money than Mercer. At least Mercer knew he didn't have the readies needed.  Pieman just racked up debts then sought to extricate himself by selling the family silver...

[Bull's-eye]

Not bad from a distinctional board and a old woman treating the club like a knitting parlour.

 

They say a week is a long time in politics.

 

Everybody oot !!!

[Luckies1874]

33 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Too many would not travel to somewhere far away from our current home . Tynecastle is too tightly woven in our fabric for that . It would be a waste of time because we would only be able to grow our support to what it is now after the initial loss of fans , and that would be crazy

 

 

 

I am not for a second advocating for us to move from Tynecastle, in fact I am dead against it. It remains the one constant and possibly the most special part of our amazing football club. The importance of Gorgie and Tynecastle should never be underestimated. I'm not sure your correct about growing the support though as the reality is that people will go and watch a successful side wherever Hearts are playing and presumably the motivation behind such a move would be to increase capacity to attract new fans, bring in more revenue and sponsors and have a better team. It can only ever be speculation on our part and it is highly unlikely to happen in our lifetime now anyway given the recent projects and expenditure at our true home. 

[Byyy The Light]

10 minutes ago, Carter said:

Basically. The club ran at an operating loss and we had to sell one of our better players each year to try and balance the books. We were by no means the only club operating unsustainable model. Very much impacted by the post Bosman era. Also had to try and rebuild the stadium. 

 

I've never doubted that CPR and LD were well intentioned. They were probably a bit out of their depth in all honesty. They had trouble keeping JJ reigned in, who had an insatiable appetite for signing players. The SMG deal was ruinous with the money largely squandered.

 

Disagree with the post above about him looking for a quick buck. He had backed himself into a corner. CPR was well and truly on the hook personally. Bank of Scotland should never have allowed the level of indebtedness to reach the levels they did. That was indicative of the prevailing conditions of the times though.

 

All part of the historical fabric of the club. Thank goodness we emerged from those times. 

 

Top post. It's easy for people to forget the context of the time. Rangers EBTs, wages going out of control, Champions League emerging and the biggest of all, Sky money starting to hit the game.

 

The pressure of the day to keep up to speed with all of that in order to remain competitive.  The Scottish Cup win probably fed the belief we could challenge.  A quite historic time for the game generally.

[AndyNic]

Half of that spent on Damour's wages.

[Footballfirst]

25 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

I am not for a second advocating for us to move from Tynecastle, in fact I am dead against it. It remains the one constant and possibly the most special part of our amazing football club. The importance of Gorgie and Tynecastle should never be underestimated. I'm not sure your correct about growing the support though as the reality is that people will go and watch a successful side wherever Hearts are playing and presumably the motivation behind such a move would be to increase capacity to attract new fans, bring in more revenue and sponsors and have a better team. It can only ever be speculation on our part and it is highly unlikely to happen in our lifetime now anyway given the recent projects and expenditure at our true home. 

The opportunity to move from Tynecastle has gone, probably for at least a generation.  I say that because of the amount of cash that has been invested in the stadium since the recent development programme started.

 

The sale of Tynecastle is also a "reserved matter" for FOH, so would need a hard sell to persuade 75% of the members to approve such a move in a vote.

 

As an indicator of where some the "donations" have gone, the value (after depreciation) of the cub's "tangible assets" in 2016 was recorded as £7.7m.  That has gone up to £26.8m.  £3m of the increase in asset values came from FOH directly as their contribution to the stadium redevelopment. A further £2.5m of FOH contributions paid off AB's initial loan and for the share transfer. Also the first £1m from FOH paid off AB's professional fees and football creditors in 2014.  

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Footballfirst

[Luckies1874]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

The opportunity to move from Tynecastle has gone, probably for at least a generation.  I say that because of the amount of cash that has been invested in the stadium since the recent development programme started.

 

 

Agreed. 

[Australis]

Not as much as expected been done with all that extra money.

 

[EH11 2NL]

How's Tynecastle no fit for purpose? The best stadium in the league, said by many an opposition player, fan and even a few refs over the years. 

 

For home fans, the museums great, decent sized shop, on site boozer, the plaza is nice, great main stand, 3(?) Hospitality suites, loads of cushioned seats in new stand, not 1 pillar creating a restricted view. And the atmosphere when fans are singing is second to none. Also a great pitch. Don't actually know what else we'd want. 

[ShedBoy]

[Fraggle]

The Halifax's "merger" with the Bank of Scotland was the tipping point for many clubs in Scotland, including Hearts. When their executives came in, they told the top brass at BOS they were to call back all the loans at Scottish clubs and give no more out. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 hour ago, EH11 2NL said:

How's Tynecastle no fit for purpose? The best stadium in the league, said by many an opposition player, fan and even a few refs over the years. 

 

For home fans, the museums great, decent sized shop, on site boozer, the plaza is nice, great main stand, 3(?) Hospitality suites, loads of cushioned seats in new stand, not 1 pillar creating a restricted view. And the atmosphere when fans are singing is second to none. Also a great pitch. Don't actually know what else we'd want. 

Tynecastle is more than fit for purpose now with the things you list and many others! When we came out of administration nobody would've believed the amount of infrastructure that's been put in place at Tynecastle to secure out future in Gorgie 

[PortyBeach]

3 hours ago, Carter said:

Basically. The club ran at an operating loss and we had to sell one of our better players each year to try and balance the books. We were by no means the only club operating unsustainable model. Very much impacted by the post Bosman era. Also had to try and rebuild the stadium. 

 

I've never doubted that CPR and LD were well intentioned. They were probably a bit out of their depth in all honesty. They had trouble keeping JJ reigned in, who had an insatiable appetite for signing players. The SMG deal was ruinous with the money largely squandered.

 

Disagree with the post above about him looking for a quick buck. He had backed himself into a corner. CPR was well and truly on the hook personally. Bank of Scotland should never have allowed the level of indebtedness to reach the levels they did. That was indicative of the prevailing conditions of the times though.

 

All part of the historical fabric of the club. Thank goodness we emerged from those times. 

Good, balanced, appraisal of that period. 
Personally, I’ve always agreed Tynecastle wasn’t fit for purpose.
I think it’s obviously a decent arena now and those responsible (which includes Deans & Robinson, of course) deserve great credit.

But I’ve always backed the idea of a customised stadium and felt it was a shame Mercer’s Hermiston project wasn’t realised, for example.

I reckon the chances of moving to a more expansive site have long gone, however! 

[EH11 2NL]

31 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Tynecastle is more than fit for purpose now with the things you list and many others! When we came out of administration nobody would've believed the amount of infrastructure that's been put in place at Tynecastle to secure out future in Gorgie 

Ah right. I picked you up wrong mate, thought you were saying its not fit for purpose now. 

[ShedBoy]

10 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

Good, balanced, appraisal of that period. 
Personally, I’ve always agreed Tynecastle wasn’t fit for purpose.
I think it’s obviously a decent arena now and those responsible (which includes Deans & Robinson, of course) deserve great credit.

But I’ve always backed the idea of a customised stadium and felt it was a shame Mercer’s Hermiston project wasn’t realised, for example.

I reckon the chances of moving to a more expansive site have long gone, however! 

Good

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

23 minutes ago, EH11 2NL said:

Ah right. I picked you up wrong mate, thought you were saying its not fit for purpose now. 

No not at all , it's amazing how far we've come putting the infrastructure in place we have 

[Taffin]

3 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

Not bad from a distinctional board and a old woman treating the club like a knitting parlour.

 

They say a week is a long time in politics.

 

Everybody oot !!!

 

Is it not bad?

 

£41m is a lot in Scottish football, especially as extra money. All for an average of 7th place?

 

I'd expect competent people to deliver a bit (a lot) more if I'm honest.

 

 

Note - I appreciate the £41m has been accumulated over that period.

[Smithian]

3 hours ago, EH11 2NL said:

How's Tynecastle no fit for purpose? The best stadium in the league, said by many an opposition player, fan and even a few refs over the years. 

 

For home fans, the museums great, decent sized shop, on site boozer, the plaza is nice, great main stand, 3(?) Hospitality suites, loads of cushioned seats in new stand, not 1 pillar creating a restricted view. And the atmosphere when fans are singing is second to none. Also a great pitch. Don't actually know what else we'd want. 

Everyone loves Tynecastle. Great matchday experience. Good atmosphere.

 

Beyond it being a bit small for ambitions, it lacks hospitality options. Go look at Brentford's new stadium. It is smaller than Tynecastle, but it is packed with executive boxes and loges. According to The Athletic, they went from "60 hospitality spaces" to 2,900 premium seats.

 

Premium seating can bring in massive money, especially in a capital city. And money makes the sports world go round. My local, newly built MLS stadium doesn't have the atmosphere of Tynecastle, but if you walk in then you just see lounges and premium seating scattered all over the stadium. I would prefer as a supporter to go to Tynecastle. But I can see how my local club can make piles more money on matchday than Hearts can at Tynecastle.

 

I'm also guessing there is a lot of things Hearts would like to do for disabled fan, safer visitor seating, and so on that just isn't possible with what they have with old bones at the stadium. The smaller pitch with no flexibility probably is not ideal for the football people.

 

Still, the new Main Stand looks great and the stadium looks perfect during matches. I wouldn't trade Tynecastle as a supporter. 

[H2]

5 hours ago, davemclaren said:

SMG wanting their money back was the one that tipped us over the edge. 

To an extent, but the Pieman took over with a £1M debt, for which Wallace Mercer was guarantor as I recall. SMG's money was £8m the debt was in excess of £20m run up by the pieman, which wasn't much more when Vlad went. I felt the Pieman let the club down.

[davemclaren]

13 minutes ago, Smithian said:

Everyone loves Tynecastle. Great matchday experience. Good atmosphere.

 

Beyond it being a bit small for ambitions, it lacks hospitality options. Go look at Brentford's new stadium. It is smaller than Tynecastle, but it is packed with executive boxes and loges. According to The Athletic, they went from "60 hospitality spaces" to 2,900 premium seats.

 

Premium seating can bring in massive money, especially in a capital city. And money makes the sports world go round. My local, newly built MLS stadium doesn't have the atmosphere of Tynecastle, but if you walk in then you just see lounges and premium seating scattered all over the stadium. I would prefer as a supporter to go to Tynecastle. But I can see how my local club can make piles more money on matchday than Hearts can at Tynecastle.

 

I'm also guessing there is a lot of things Hearts would like to do for disabled fan, safer visitor seating, and so on that just isn't possible with what they have with old bones at the stadium. The smaller pitch with no flexibility probably is not ideal for the football people.

 

Still, the new Main Stand looks great and the stadium looks perfect during matches. I wouldn't trade Tynecastle as a supporter. 

To be fsir, the new main stand delivered sugnificantly more hospitality spaces than the old one. We are turning the second floor into a hotel as we seem to feel we have enough. 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, H2 said:

To an extent, but the Pieman took over with a £1M debt, for which Wallace Mercer was guarantor as I recall. SMG's money was £8m the debt was in excess of £20m run up by the pieman, which wasn't much more when Vlad went. I felt the Pieman let the club down.

Financially he certainly overstretched but he did deliver our first major trophy for 35 years.  

[By The Light..]

2 hours ago, Fraggle said:

The Halifax's "merger" with the Bank of Scotland was the tipping point for many clubs in Scotland, including Hearts. When their executives came in, they told the top brass at BOS they were to call back all the loans at Scottish clubs and give no more out. 

 

And stranger than fiction the building society merger (caused by the BoS move on Natwest trumped by RBS) was the main reason BoS needed to be pushed into Lloyds to survive the 2008 mortgage securities crash.

Edited November 16, 2023 by By The Light..

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, By The Light.. said:

 

And stranger than fiction the building society merger (caused by the BoS move on Natwest trumped by RBS) was the main reason BoS needed to be pushed in Lloyds to survive the 2008 mortgage securities crash.

I think their Corporate Banking arm likely had a large part in that as well. 

[H2]

18 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Financially he certainly overstretched but he did deliver our first major trophy for 35 years.  

I prefer to give that accolade to JJ & BB

[Gorgiewave]

No trophies but the pleasure of watching St Johnstone, Hibernian, Ross County and Inverness win cups, third twice and another relegation: that's what the last nine years have brought us.

 

 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, H2 said:

I prefer to give that accolade to JJ & BB

Team effort. 😄

[Thunder and Lightning]

7 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

 

Over £41 million pound in donations from benefactors and FOH since coming out of administration.

Looking back now with the bemefit of hindsight this is probably what the pie man meant when he said Tynecastle was not fit for purpose away back at that time but thankfully we've got very good supporters and very good benefactors who've secured our long term viability in Gorgie with a 24/7 stadium now.

 

Thats a quite staggering amount of money. 

[Lone Striker]

34 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Financially he certainly overstretched but he did deliver our first major trophy for 35 years.  

   

 

Hmmm ....  then should we give Rishi Sunak  credit for "delivering"  4.8 percent inflation when its not him that does the work to achieve it ?  

 

Just jesting.   In a rather loose way, Pieman did.    imo, it can be traced to his (and LD' s) persistence at trying to attract JJ to leave Falkirk to come to Hearts after JJ had rejected the initial (and possibly second ?) approach. 

 

The mantra from  CR & LD about "speculate to accumulate"  unfortunately came home to roost 10 years later, ending up with a mad Russian who "delivered" 2 more trophies and some exciting times. 😉

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Lone Striker

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Lone Striker said:

   

 

Hmmm ....  then should we give Rishi Sunak  credit for "delivering"  4.8 percent inflation when its not him that does the work to achieve it ?  

 

Just jesting.   In a rather loose way, Pieman did.    imo, it can be traced to his (and LD'  😏s) persistence at trying to attract JJ to leave Falkirk to come to Hearts after JJ had rejected the initial (and possibly second ?) approach. 

 

The mantra from  CR & LD about "speculate to accumulate"  unfortunately came home to roost 10 years later, ending up with a mad Russian who "delivered" 2 more trophies and some exciting times. 😉

 

 

Correct. 

[Gizmo]

3 hours ago, Fraggle said:

The Halifax's "merger" with the Bank of Scotland was the tipping point for many clubs in Scotland, including Hearts. When their executives came in, they told the top brass at BOS they were to call back all the loans at Scottish clubs and give no more out. 

Let's not forget that David Murray allegedly had a man on the inside of BoS, who would put major pressure on any team that Rangers wanted a player from, so that they would have to sell quickly at the first offer to keep the pressure off the overdraft (which in part was ramped up trying to keep up with a Rangers spending money they ultimately didn't have).

****ing criminal. 

[Legend Claws]

We're turning over 20m and making a 300k profit, something stinks.

[Lone Striker]

1 minute ago, Legend Claws said:

We're turning over 20m and making a 300k profit, something stinks.

How so ?

[H2]

2 minutes ago, Legend Claws said:

We're turning over 20m and making a 300k profit, something stinks.

Seriously??