" Lessons to be learned "

[JudyJudyJudy]

Sound familiar ? Well its trotted out every time there is a horrific case or cases of child abuse.

 

Shameful. Apparently various services raised their ongoing concerns for years about neglect of the children * which can indicate other types of abuse ( and it was ). Nothing was done

 

Glasgow child abuse sex ring investigation to involve 'all agencies' | Glasgow Times

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

“Lessons to be learned” is what people in authority say as cover for the fact that no-one has been sacked, no-one has been prosecuted and no individual has taken any responsibility.

 

a collective shield used time and again by incompetent pricks 

[Spellczech]

It is the default statement from all public sector bodies when they eff up...

[John Findlay]

28 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

“Lessons to be learned” is what people in authority say as cover for the fact that no-one has been sacked, no-one has been prosecuted and no individual has taken any responsibility.

 

a collective shield used time and again by incompetent pricks 

In a nutshell.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'm sure " concerns" would have been acted upon if the children were from a different social class. However there were clearly from a lower / under class and such seen as " naebodys bairns" really.  Very sad. 

[Ked]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I'm sure " concerns" would have been acted upon if the children were from a different social class. However there were clearly from a lower / under class and such seen as " naebodys bairns" really.  Very sad. 

It's worse than sad.

As a nation we have a shit record of looking out for bairns who haven't got the protection other bairns get.

I can't read this particular story too much.

It's unbearable to think about.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

It's worse than sad.

As a nation we have a shit record of looking out for bairns who haven't got the protection other bairns get.

I can't read this particular story too much.

It's unbearable to think about.

 

Sadly those kids flew under the radar as prob professionals has low expectations of their parents / parent so the children were allowed to stay in neglectful / abusive conditions . However police and school raised their concerns but clearly to no avail to the people who had the power to remove the kids . Like I said on similar topic lately 50,000 children or so are deemed to be in family environments were it is deemed the parenting doesn’t pass the “ good enough parenting “ threshold but the children’s, social , emotional and physical development is at risk due to lack of residential or foster care . Also there is still the outdated notion that it should be seen as a last resort to to remove children from a dysfunctional family.  When it in fact it can be the best long term option . 

[Ked]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Sadly those kids flew under the radar as prob professionals has low expectations of their parents / parent so the children were allowed to stay in neglectful / abusive conditions . However police and school raised their concerns but clearly to no avail to the people who had the power to remove the kids . Like I said on similar topic lately 50,000 children or so are deemed to be in family environments were it is deemed the parenting doesn’t pass the “ good enough parenting “ threshold but the children’s, social , emotional and physical development is at risk due to lack of residential or foster care . Also there is still the outdated notion that it should be seen as a last resort to to remove children from a dysfunctional family.  When it in fact it can be the best long term option . 

Going by the little I've read definitely the best option .

It's a difficult call but when police and especially teachers start waving flags in this day and age ffs.

Like I said our record on protecting children is shit.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Going by the little I've read definitely the best option .

It's a difficult call but when police and especially teachers start waving flags in this day and age ffs.

Like I said our record on protecting children is shit.

👍

[Spellczech]

3 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I'm sure " concerns" would have been acted upon if the children were from a different social class. However there were clearly from a lower / under class and such seen as " naebodys bairns" really.  Very sad. 

I think you are wide of the mark there. It is not a class thing, just people not doing their job... There is a catch-22 situation where it is seen as last resort to take kids away from parents, whilst also having kids are a means to an end for some people as they increase benefits/entitlements of various kinds. Even if kids do go into care, the care system doesn't work very well...It is a brave foster parent who takes on the kids of junkies TBH...

 

Some people are just sht. Look at that poor girl in Lanarkshire a few month ago who almost survived the care system only to be murdered by her own brother, and then even when dead some other effing scuzzball abused her corpse...

Edited November 15, 2023 by Spellczech

[the posh bit]

10 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I think you are wide of the mark there. It is not a class thing, just people not doing their job... There is a catch-22 situation where it is seen as last resort to take kids away from parents, whilst also having kids are a means to an end for some people as they increase benefits/entitlements of various kinds. Even if kids do go into care, the care system doesn't work very well...It is a brave foster parent who takes on the kids of junkies TBH...

 

I'm pretty sure the percentage of folk who have kids to increase their benefits/entitlement are not as high as the percentage of foster carers who simply do it for the money, junkies kids or not. 

[luckyBatistuta]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

Going by the little I've read definitely the best option .

It's a difficult call but when police and especially teachers start waving flags in this day and age ffs.

Like I said our record on protecting children is shit.

You’re spot on Ked, it’s beyond bad. Why does it have to be highlighted again and again by people in a position to see and know what’s happening and yet not act upon it early enough.

 

There is someone I know of at the moment who has had 4 or 5 kids and all taken off of her for the safety of the children, yet she is pregnant again and I’m told she could possibly be allowed to keep this child…wtf!!!

[luckyBatistuta]

4 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

 

I'm pretty sure the percentage of folk who have kids to increase their benefits/entitlement are not as high as the percentage of foster carers who simply do it for the money, junkies kids or not. 

I knew someone who fostered a kid and then they adopted them, actually talked about how much money they would get. They then ####ed off with a new partner behind their partners back and screwed the kid all over again 😡😞

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

You’re spot on Ked, it’s beyond bad. Why does it have to be highlighted again and again by people in a position to see and know what’s happening and yet not act upon it early enough.

 

There is someone I know of at the moment who has had 4 or 5 kids and all taken off of her for the safety of the children, yet she is pregnant again and I’m told she could possibly be allowed to keep this child…wtf!!!

It’s the easiest thing to do …. Have children . It’s bringing them up well which is the hard part . 

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

You’re spot on Ked, it’s beyond bad. Why does it have to be highlighted again and again by people in a position to see and know what’s happening and yet not act upon it early enough.

 

There is someone I know of at the moment who has had 4 or 5 kids and all taken off of her for the safety of the children, yet she is pregnant again and I’m told she could possibly be allowed to keep this child…wtf!!!

We may have but there’s no real way unless you’re an expert of knowing if we are worse than other countries. Horror stories come out in all countries, America being a very obvious case in point. 

[Spellczech]

4 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

 

I'm pretty sure the percentage of folk who have kids to increase their benefits/entitlement are not as high as the percentage of foster carers who simply do it for the money, junkies kids or not. 

Perhaps but whichever, It's using kids for money either way - the important thing is whether the kid actually gets looked after...I don't think child allowance should be a thing at all. The money used for it should simply be allocated elsewhere in the benefits system. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

27 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I think you are wide of the mark there. It is not a class thing, just people not doing their job... There is a catch-22 situation where it is seen as last resort to take kids away from parents, whilst also having kids are a means to an end for some people as they increase benefits/entitlements of various kinds. Even if kids do go into care, the care system doesn't work very well...It is a brave foster parent who takes on the kids of junkies TBH...

 

Some people are just sht. Look at that poor girl in Lanarkshire a few month ago who almost survived the care system only to be murdered by her own brother, and then even when dead some other effing scuzzball abused her corpse...

I don’t think so . 
 

I’d agree the care system might not be any better but it’s certainly is better than some of the homes those kids are in . It can provide the basics of care , food , safety , shelters , adults who are responsive to their needs etc . The after care system is a mess though . 
 

That girl in Lanarkshire just never had a chance . A horrendous tale . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

No doubt about it there are certainly foster carers motivated by the financial aspect of it . It can be quite lucrative , but then they are taken on the full time care of damaged / traumatised young people who need 24 care / support / guidelines / boundaries . Those kids need “ retrained “ if they are displaying dysfunctional behaviours 

[the posh bit]

4 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Perhaps but whichever, It's using kids for money either way - the important thing is whether the kid actually gets looked after...I don't think child allowance should be a thing at all. The money used for it should simply be allocated elsewhere in the benefits system. 

 

I agree. If foster parents see it as just a job, fine. Do the job well, and if that's a better outcome for a child, so be it. 

 

I would agree re. child benefit too if I could trust a government to re-allocate that money into the benefits system. 

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I don’t think so . 
 

I’d agree the care system might not be any better but it’s certainly is better than some of the homes those kids are in . It can provide the basics of care , food , safety , shelters , adults who are responsive to their needs etc . The after care system is a mess though . 
 

That girl in Lanarkshire just never had a chance . A horrendous tale . 

I agree totally that some people should not be allowed to have children, but it is a very strange environment where people fail to look after their children but will be damned if anyone else will. People hate to be seen as failures, no matter how useless they are - look at Suella Braverman...

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Spellczech said:

I agree totally that some people should not be allowed to have children, but it is a very strange environment where people fail to look after their children but will be damned if anyone else will. People hate to be seen as failures, no matter how useless they are - look at Suella Braverman...

I never said that anyone shouldn’t be allowed to have children ? I said it’s the easiest thing to do . ? Sone adults have children and are unprepared for whatever reason to adequately care fir them and raise them . That’s it . Society is then left with the problems of how to deal with it .

[the posh bit]

9 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

I knew someone who fostered a kid and then they adopted them, actually talked about how much money they would get. They then ####ed off with a new partner behind their partners back and screwed the kid all over again 😡😞

 

I could go on all night about this. 

 

I know parents who utterly abused the DLA system. Shameless. 

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I never said that anyone shouldn’t be allowed to have children ? I said it’s the easiest thing to do . ? Sone adults have children and are unprepared for whatever reason to adequately care fir them and raise them . That’s it . Society is then left with the problems of how to deal with it .

Well you cannot expect someone who cannot look after themself to look after a child. It's absurd, an utter nonsense. Every second a child is with such a "parent" is detrimental to that child.

 

What these agencies need to start doing is what they claim to do: Put the child first. At the moment, as I said above, the preferred option for as long as possible is to keep the family unit together, regardless of how messy it is. It is a shtshow of misaligned strategies, priorities and purposes...

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Spellczech said:

Well you cannot expect someone who cannot look after themself to look after a child. It's absurd, an utter nonsense. Every second a child is with such a "parent" is detrimental to that child.

Agreed 👍 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

What these agencies need to start doing is what they claim to do: Put the child first. At the moment, as I said above, the preferred option for as long as possible is to keep the family unit together, regardless of how messy it is. It is a shtshow of misaligned strategies, priorities and purposes...

Agreed . Things are changing due to changes in practice and policies . The over riding principles were to keep the child with the birth family irrespective of the dysfunctional status of it . However it is recognised the longer a child remains in this environment the more unrepairable they become. . Hence there is now more stringent policies in place with give parents only so many chances and then the kids are removed . Mainly with under 5s . It’s a sin that it didn’t happen in this case . A senior social worker / tutor was on tv earlier tonight talking about it and was aghast that the kids hadn’t been removed years ago

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

I think you are wide of the mark there. It is not a class thing, just people not doing their job... There is a catch-22 situation where it is seen as last resort to take kids away from parents, whilst also having kids are a means to an end for some people as they increase benefits/entitlements of various kinds. Even if kids do go into care, the care system doesn't work very well...It is a brave foster parent who takes on the kids of junkies TBH...

 

Some people are just sht. Look at that poor girl in Lanarkshire a few month ago who almost survived the care system only to be murdered by her own brother, and then even when dead some other effing scuzzball abused her corpse...

That was ****ing horrendous…

Sometimes you’re left speechless at depravity and that was one of those times for me. 

[John Findlay]

When they say lessons need/have been learned. All they mean is how can we sweep it under the carpet better.

[il Duce McTarkin]

After each project I complete we have a closeout debrief, and any lessons learned, good or bad, are carried forward into the planning and workflows for subsequent projects. 

No two problems are identical, however, and you seldom come up against the same enemy twice, so it's a perpetually evolving process.

Is this not what happens here? 

[Jim_Duncan]

3 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

After each project I complete we have a closeout debrief, and any lessons learned, good or bad, are carried forward into the planning and workflows for subsequent projects. 

No two problems are identical, however, and you seldom come up against the same enemy twice, so it's a perpetually evolving process.

Is this not what happens here? 

Sounds like me and my kids after the wife attempts a new recipe. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

9 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Sounds like me and my kids after the wife attempts a new recipe. 

 

Is the debrief held in the family toilet?

[Unknown user]

8 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

That was ****ing horrendous…

Sometimes you’re left speechless at depravity and that was one of those times for me. 

 

I've mentioned it before but there's a case going through court in Glasgow just now including a lad I worked beside. He was part of a gang that did satanic rituals, abused bairns, all that stuff. He's already been done for raping an underage lassie, and installing a secret camera in a 14 year old's room.

 

I'm not that surprised, absolute cnt of a man, he used to brag about battering gays and ethnic minorities in his spare time. Naval veteran too.

 

Aye, some people are absolute wanks.

[Craig_]

9 hours ago, the posh bit said:

 

I could go on all night about this. 

 

I know parents who utterly abused the DLA system. Shameless. 

 

What's getting a driving licence got to do with it? 😜

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

I've mentioned it before but there's a case going through court in Glasgow just now including a lad I worked beside. He was part of a gang that did satanic rituals, abused bairns, all that stuff. He's already been done for raping an underage lassie, and installing a secret camera in a 14 year old's room.

 

I'm not that surprised, absolute cnt of a man, he used to brag about battering gays and ethnic minorities in his spare time. Naval veteran too.

 

Aye, some people are absolute wanks.

 

Ah shit, it is this one - the one I know is the one that's not been photographed

[il Duce McTarkin]

13 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

I've mentioned it before but there's a case going through court in Glasgow just now including a lad I worked beside. He was part of a gang that did satanic rituals, abused bairns, all that stuff. He's already been done for raping an underage lassie, and installing a secret camera in a 14 year old's room.

 

I'm not that surprised, absolute cnt of a man, he used to brag about battering gays and ethnic minorities in his spare time. Naval veteran too.

 

Aye, some people are absolute wanks.

 

[Jim_Duncan]

28 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Is the debrief held in the family toilet?

For the lucky few. Ad-hoc workflow changes have been known to occur in the dining room itself. 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

 

[martoon]

If lessons are to be, genuinely, learned then we should see some results very quickly.

 

There's probably, who knows how many, thousands of children suffering right now who are known to the authorities, where this is little doubt of the peril they are in, so let's see some action now.

 

Hesitating isn't an option.

 

Not if lessons are being learnt.

Edited November 17, 2023 by martoon

[That thing you do]

Lessons will be learned

 

=

 

Someone will take the blame and be moved on

[Hmfc1965]

6 hours ago, martoon said:

If lessons are to be, genuinely, learned then we should see some results very quickly.

 

There's probably, who knows how many, thousands of children suffering right now who are known to the authorities, where this is little doubt of the peril they are in, so let's see some action now.

 

Hesitating isn't an option.

 

Not if lessons are being learnt.

I don't think that's entirely true.

In my experience social services do a difficult job to the best of their ability.

As others have said the aim traditionally has been to keep a child with their family but not at any cost.

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 hours ago, martoon said:

probably

Not probably there is ! And the Govt doing fevk all . It’s only poor luck there are more tragedies like the case highlighted in this thread 🧵 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Hmfc1965 said:

I don't think that's entirely true.

In my experience social services do a difficult job to the best of their ability.

As others have said the aim traditionally has been to keep a child with their family but not at any cost.

Yes god bless the social services As they do try their best but lack of resources such as foster care / residential care means kids are left in extremely abusive and dysfunctional environments 

[il Duce McTarkin]

45 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes god bless the social services As they do try their best but lack of resources such as foster care / residential care means kids are left in extremely abusive and dysfunctional environments 

 

There is no god, james.

[Unknown user]

42 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

There is no god, james.

 

And if there is, given the religious dogma present in religions across the planet, chances are he hates gays.

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 minute ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

And if there is, given the religious dogma present in religions across the planet, chances are he hates gays.

 

james will be alright, he's just kidding on for the attention. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

james will be alright, he's just kidding on for the attention. 

 

Genuine bumgamery and pretending to like Streisand are the same in His book.

[il Duce McTarkin]

9 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

Genuine bumgamery and pretending to like Streisand are the same in His book.

 

Better wind our necks in, Smithee, or we'll be be falling foul of the local Plod.

 

I'm away to inject whisky into my eyeballs with @jack D and coke. Feel free to pop along with your 3 foot blunt, if you can put the Greggs magic munchie bag down or find your front door.

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by il Duce McTarkin

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Better wind our necks in, Smithee, or we'll be be falling foul of the local Plod.

 

I'm away to inject whisky into my eyeballs with @jack D and coke. Feel free to pop along with your 3 foot blunt, if you can put the Greggs magic munchie bag down or find your front door.

 

 

 

 

I'll do my best, might need forts an prairs

[JudyJudyJudy]

Must say I’ve never heard the homophobic slur “ bumgamery” before .

 

Interesting .
 

It’s probably something a character in “ the inbetweenmers “ would say . Says it all really . 

 

[Салатные палочки]

Used to play "more needs to be done" bingo with my old flatmate. Guarantee, every night on the news, on one of the first segments, someone would say "more needs to be done". Like what? What needs to be done and how much more? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Салатные палочки said:

Used to play "more needs to be done" bingo with my old flatmate. Guarantee, every night on the news, on one of the first segments, someone would say "more needs to be done". Like what? What needs to be done and how much more? 

A change in philosophy about sone addicted parents motivation and ability to change ( abstain from their addiction ) instead of the molly coddling of them . Addict parents put their own needs first and not their children’s . Take the kids out of that toxic environment before it’s too late.