Vargas and Oda

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

It's great to see two exciting talents out on the right wing vying for a place. It's going to be fascinating seeing how they both perform this season. For me Oda will have to up his game even more now with Vargas looking the better of the two so far. Is Oda a better finisher though? hopefully we will see both chipping in regularly with goals and assists in the coming months. 

[Tour22]

Just now, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

It's great to see two exciting talents out on the right wing vying for a place. It's going to be fascinating seeing how they both perform this season. For me Oda will have to up his game even more now with Vargas looking the better of the two so far. Is Oda a better finisher though? hopefully we will see both chipping in regularly with goals and assists in the coming months. 

 

I think we will have still have to be patient with them both. 

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

It's great to see two exciting talents out on the right wing vying for a place. It's going to be fascinating seeing how they both perform this season. For me Oda will have to up his game even more now with Vargas looking the better of the two so far. Is Oda a better finisher though? hopefully we will see both chipping in regularly with goals and assists in the coming months. 

I know.  How fast is Vargas by the way and full control of the ball at that speed too!

 

What I love about both these young lads is how much they mix it too - they both get stuck in.  Exciting options.

 

I wonder if Barrie is out (hope not!!), do we get one on each wing - think I saw Vargas tended to play LW in Costa Rica.  Him driving infield with Oda hitting bylines is a sexy thought.

[Jeff]

Vargas doesn't look a big guy but he was winning plenty of 50/50s against guys like Taison

 

Very good start 

[Taffin]

Like them both. I'd have one on the right, the other on the left 👍👍

 

Finally, Vargas looks to have replaced a Suso sized hole in my heart

[Marvin]

Vargas and Oda are going to be invaluable this season. 

[gregzy2k7]

Both look great prospects, and just because they are both right footers, let's not rule out the possibility of them both playing together, I think both of them could develop into playing the no9 role that Ginelly had last season and obviously with Tagawa able to the same, we have an abundance of different options and players that can cover/switch roles, good problems to have, I still think we should get rid of Forrest and have one more lefty winger who we can develop just like Oda and Vargas.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

I know.  How fast is Vargas by the way and full control of the ball at that speed too!

 

What I love about both these young lads is how much they mix it too - they both get stuck in.  Exciting options.

 

I wonder if Barrie is out (hope not!!), do we get one on each wing - think I saw Vargas tended to play LW in Costa Rica.  Him driving infield with Oda hitting bylines is a sexy thought.

If he played on the left that's a bonus but he looked a natural on the right last night. He would be better than Lowry if McKay is out as I haven't been impressed with him at all so far.

[Pans Jambo]

5 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

If he played on the left that's a bonus but he looked a natural on the right last night. He would be better than Lowry if McKay is out as I haven't been impressed with him at all so far.

Lowry arrived and his first game was brilliant. There's no denying the lad has talent on the ball. Its when he DOESNT have the ball that he just looks lazy and uninterested. We cant carry passengers in games.

[Locky]

Vargas looks a lot more ready for first team football than Oda does. Think Oda will be more of an impact player off the bench this season. The flashes I've seen from Vargas suggest we should probably enjoy him while we can because there's no way he'll be back here next season.

[TheBigO]

10 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

If he played on the left that's a bonus but he looked a natural on the right last night. He would be better than Lowry if McKay is out as I haven't been impressed with him at all so far.

Lowry is a talented kid but he's a but shy for want of a better word - he needs to look at Oda and Vargas to see that grit he needs to add to his game.  Not saying he needs to batter in - I defend Barrie enough - but he needs to go in where it hurts a bit more.  You can see he's going to be a good player and I think for us this season included tbh.

 

Totally agree, I personally love wingers playing on their strong side, getting outside fullbacks - old fashioned, but love it.  Mind you with Boyce and Shanks in the middle, someone coming inside on the diagonal at pace, using them for wall passes, is also quite the thought.  One each side!  A hit-the-byeline and a run-at-the-box!

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

6 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Lowry arrived and his first game was brilliant. There's no denying the lad has talent on the ball. Its when he DOESNT have the ball that he just looks lazy and uninterested. We cant carry passengers in games.

Some of his challenges last night looked half hearted, I was disappointed by that too. If he is frightened to put in a challenge because he's only on loan then that's no good to us.

[kingantti1874]

16 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

If he played on the left that's a bonus but he looked a natural on the right last night. He would be better than Lowry if McKay is out as I haven't been impressed with him at all so far.

apart from the what 4 assists. 🤣 in about 150 mins of football

 

jesus ****ing Christ out support never fail to astound me 

[vegas-voss]

14 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

If he played on the left that's a bonus but he looked a natural on the right last night. He would be better than Lowry if McKay is out as I haven't been impressed with him at all so far.

I think Lowry will end up a central midfield playmaker in his career.Needs to bulk out and handle the physical side first though but his passing and vision is there just gets caught out with the pace of the game just now imo.

[TheBigO]

11 minutes ago, Locky said:

Vargas looks a lot more ready for first team football than Oda does. Think Oda will be more of an impact player off the bench this season. The flashes I've seen from Vargas suggest we should probably enjoy him while we can because there's no way he'll be back here next season.

I'd imagine the option to buy is our option, so if we don't see him back, it'll be because WE'VE sold him!

[Chimp]

11 minutes ago, Locky said:

Vargas looks a lot more ready for first team football than Oda does. Think Oda will be more of an impact player off the bench this season. The flashes I've seen from Vargas suggest we should probably enjoy him while we can because there's no way he'll be back here next season.

 

We have the option to buy though?

[DxB Hearts]

Vargas on one wing, Oda on the other and they'll switch during the game is how I imagine we'll be playing by the end of the season. 

 

That's exciting.

[jamboinglasgow]

1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

Lowry is a talented kid but he's a but shy for want of a better word - he needs to look at Oda and Vargas to see that grit he needs to add to his game.  Not saying he needs to batter in - I defend Barrie enough - but he needs to go in where it hurts a bit more.  You can see he's going to be a good player and I think for us this season included tbh.

 

Totally agree, I personally love wingers playing on their strong side, getting outside fullbacks - old fashioned, but love it.  Mind you with Boyce and Shanks in the middle, someone coming inside on the diagonal at pace, using them for wall passes, is also quite the thought.  One each side!  A hit-the-byeline and a run-at-the-box!

 

From what Naismith has said in previous interviews, I get the sense that he is looking to get Lowry to change his mindset (which didn't come across as he has a bad attitude, just one that needs to improve, basically needs the mindset to be able to play regularly for Rangers) and I am certain that Naismith is the ideal guy to get that out of him. I do think he will be a player that will be quite inconsistent but it will improve through the season to the point that we will be gutted that we dont keep him past the summer.

 

I do think you could have a good team with Oda on one side and Vargas on the other. I really like Oda and think he can be great. I do think the attacking players are still getting used to each other which happens when you bring in a lot of attacking players (Rangers have the same issue at the moment.) If you think of best and second best front four, Shankland and McKay played reguarly last season, Oda played a handful of times, Forrest was in and out but when they understand each other and the rest are new or back after long term injury. Once the players know each others movements, the strengths and weaknesses then that attacking side is really exciting.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

8 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

apart from the what 4 assists. 🤣 in about 150 mins of football

 

jesus ****ing Christ out support never fail to astound me 

People who can't wait to jump in like you have just done astound me too 😂

[jamboinglasgow]

6 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

I'd imagine the option to buy is our option, so if we don't see him back, it'll be because WE'VE sold him!

 

yup, and one Costa Rican journalist was saying it automatically triggers after certain conditions are met (I suspect if he has played a certain number of games.)

[Locky]

7 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

I'd imagine the option to buy is our option, so if we don't see him back, it'll be because WE'VE sold him!

 

6 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

We have the option to buy though?

As much as we have the option, there's nothing to suggest that we aren't outbid by someone who can then offer him better terms. As far as I'm aware anyway. Just means that should we stump up the agreed price, they'll have to accept it.

[boag1874]

A front 4 of

 

ST Shankland

RW Oda

CAM Boyce

LW Vargas

 

is a sexy sexy thought 

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, Locky said:

 

As much as we have the option, there's nothing to suggest that we aren't outbid by someone who can then offer him better terms. As far as I'm aware anyway. Just means that should we stump up the agreed price, they'll have to accept it.

We don't know that for def.  How could we.

 

The way I personally guess it is that if we decide to buy him at the agreed price, it's done.  they could get offered £100m, but if our £500k agreement (or whatever) is triggered by Hearts, he's ours.

[boag1874]

2 minutes ago, Locky said:

 

As much as we have the option, there's nothing to suggest that we aren't outbid by someone who can then offer him better terms. As far as I'm aware anyway. Just means that should we stump up the agreed price, they'll have to accept it.

We can’t be outbid we’ve an agreement already in place, pretty sure the terms of the permanent contract will be agreed with the player & his agent too as part of the loan agreement.
 

I can’t think of any cases where a club has triggered the option to buy but another bidder has hijacked it, if anyone has any examples I’d be interested to see what happened?

[jamboinglasgow]

2 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

We can’t be outbid we’ve an agreement already in place, pretty sure the terms of the permanent contract will be agreed with the player & his agent too as part of the loan agreement.
 

I can’t think of any cases where a club has triggered the option to buy but another bidder has hijacked it, if anyone has any examples I’d be interested to see what happened?

 

Yup, everything I have read makes me believe that this loan is basically all agreed to be permanent, with the loan being just a case to make sure Vargas can settle here, if not then  he goes back home and everyone can part easily. 

[Chimp]

18 minutes ago, Locky said:

 

As much as we have the option, there's nothing to suggest that we aren't outbid by someone who can then offer him better terms. As far as I'm aware anyway. Just means that should we stump up the agreed price, they'll have to accept it.

 

Don't think it works like that

[The Old Tolbooth]

29 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

yup, and one Costa Rican journalist was saying it automatically triggers after certain conditions are met (I suspect if he has played a certain number of games.)

 

I'd be triggering those conditions now, he looks a keeper (no jokes please ) 

[Pasquale for King]

Vargas can play on the left too, both need to start for me next Thursday. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

If we can find a midfield that wins it and feeds it, we are in business. Even in defeat, loving this team

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

54 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

I think Lowry will end up a central midfield playmaker in his career.Needs to bulk out and handle the physical side first though but his passing and vision is there just gets caught out with the pace of the game just now imo.

I dont think he is a winger. Looked a bit lost out there. Better centrally picking pockets of space

[Thomaso]

58 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Some of his challenges last night looked half hearted, I was disappointed by that too. If he is frightened to put in a challenge because he's only on loan then that's no good to us.

Frankly I have been a bit disappointed with him - certainly did not agree with some giving him MoM against Partick.

Needs to man up if he is to make it at Hearts.

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, Locky said:

Vargas looks a lot more ready for first team football than Oda does. Think Oda will be more of an impact player off the bench this season. The flashes I've seen from Vargas suggest we should probably enjoy him while we can because there's no way he'll be back here next season.

 

100% this.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

52 minutes ago, Locky said:

 

As much as we have the option, there's nothing to suggest that we aren't outbid by someone who can then offer him better terms. As far as I'm aware anyway. Just means that should we stump up the agreed price, they'll have to accept it.

Might be something akin to Skacel, where we signed and sold immediately to Southampton.

 

We are in a strong position with him either way. Great business

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Some of his challenges last night looked half hearted, I was disappointed by that too. If he is frightened to put in a challenge because he's only on loan then that's no good to us.

 

Lowry looks like the sort of player who will only shine in games where he is given a bit of space. A waste of time when you play teams that are in your face which is probably most of the teams in the SPL.

 

He has undoubted talent but I am not yet convinced he has the right attributes to be a first choice starter.

 

This is probably why he is out on loan in the frist place to see if he has what it takes.

 

Early days yet for him but he needs to toughen up and show more desire to win the ball and keep it.

[vegas-voss]

15 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

I dont think he is a winger. Looked a bit lost out there. Better centrally picking pockets of space

Feel the same.Do think he struggles with the pace of games as well though so I would keep playing him from the bench then bring him on when there is more space.Depending on formation we play but if it s 4231 bring him in when Boyce is done.

Edited August 25, 2023 by vegas-voss

[OTT]

Both look very good, I liked how tenacious Vargas was in trying to win the ball back, and he also seemed to make sure he was getting the ball by his man one way or the other which was pleasing to see. 

 

For me, both should start ahead of McKay. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 minute ago, vegas-voss said:

Feel the same.Do think he struggles with the pace of games as well though so I would keep playing him from the bench then bring him on when there is more space.Depending on formation we play but if it s 4231 bring him in when Boyce is done.

Yeah, totally agree

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Just now, OTT said:

Both look very good, I liked how tenacious Vargas was in trying to win the ball back, and he also seemed to make sure he was getting the ball by his man one way or the other which was pleasing to see. 

 

For me, both should start ahead of McKay. 

McKay terrifies defenders, even if it doesn't always come off, his presence worries other teams and creates space. A lot of our play fizzled out when he left the fray last night. Unfortunately looks as if he is out for some time.

[jtkb]

Lowry is a luxury player and a sand dancer. He needs to do more off the ball at our level. He will never make it at Rangers playing that way. Good thing we have not paid a fortune for the lad. Boy has bags of talent and his set up play is a joy to watch. But you can see at big tough games like killie and last night he looks out of his depth. Maybe he would do well on the continent our football is way to fast for skillfull players who need time to think. He got loads of time at jags game and was brilliant.  But our bread and butter is killie livy motherwell seems he not suited to those game. So to sum up a speciality player for slow games. But tough fast games best keep him on bench.

[The White Cockade]

Vargas looked great last night 

Oda will be a top player in time and will be managed this year and gradually become a starter

Lowry is obviously talented as well but still a bit lightweight and needs to bulk up a bit You can’t expect him to go from Lowland League to starting games for us straight away

We’ve not seen much of Tagawa yet but once he’s bedded in he could be the best of the lot Looks a real finisher

With Shanks and Boyce as well as Barrie we have so many forward options compared to last few seasons 

I think Offiah and Kent will see us solid at the back so we’re one creative midfielder away from having a very good team

We just need the bravery and confidence to push forward quicker than we are at the moment 

[Unknown user]

Mon the Kenny V!

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

28 minutes ago, The White Cockade said:

Vargas looked great last night 

Oda will be a top player in time and will be managed this year and gradually become a starter

Lowry is obviously talented as well but still a bit lightweight and needs to bulk up a bit You can’t expect him to go from Lowland League to starting games for us straight away

We’ve not seen much of Tagawa yet but once he’s bedded in he could be the best of the lot Looks a real finisher

With Shanks and Boyce as well as Barrie we have so many forward options compared to last few seasons 

I think Offiah and Kent will see us solid at the back so we’re one creative midfielder away from having a very good team

We just need the bravery and confidence to push forward quicker than we are at the moment 

There were quite a few poor decisions in the final 3rd last night, maybe a wee breakdown in comms. Bedding in issues possibly. I think if we get ahead in games at our own level we will be difficult to stop

[PhoenixHearts]

2 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Both look great prospects, and just because they are both right footers, let's not rule out the possibility of them both playing together, I think both of them could develop into playing the no9 role that Ginelly had last season and obviously with Tagawa able to the same, we have an abundance of different options and players that can cover/switch roles, good problems to have, I still think we should get rid of Forrest and have one more lefty winger who we can develop just like Oda and Vargas.

 

I may be on an island here but I've always been a huge proponent of playing a right footed forward on the left and vice versa. LW cutting in and hitting off his right give him an easier angle to curl into the back post top bin 🙂

 

 

[VagabondJambo]

22 minutes ago, PhoenixHearts said:

 

I may be on an island here but I've always been a huge proponent of playing a right footed forward on the left and vice versa. LW cutting in and hitting off his right give him an easier angle to curl into the back post top bin 🙂

 

 

I’m on your island!

Your rationale is spot on, IMO

Can you imagine the fantastic curling-in goals!  Yes please!

[busbyfth]

2 hours ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

It's great to see two exciting talents out on the right wing vying for a place. It's going to be fascinating seeing how they both perform this season. For me Oda will have to up his game even more now with Vargas looking the better of the two so far. Is Oda a better finisher though? hopefully we will see both chipping in regularly with goals and assists in the coming months. 

Though rotating will NOT help 

[OTT]

29 minutes ago, PhoenixHearts said:

 

I may be on an island here but I've always been a huge proponent of playing a right footed forward on the left and vice versa. LW cutting in and hitting off his right give him an easier angle to curl into the back post top bin 🙂

 

 

 

Completely agree - McKay is a right footer and does pretty well on the left! 

 

Assume wingers like taking their man on and getting shots away, which playing on the opposite side to their dominant foot would allow. 

 

 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

Frankly I have been a bit disappointed with him - certainly did not agree with some giving him MoM against Partick.

Needs to man up if he is to make it at Hearts.

 

1 hour ago, wavydavy said:

 

Lowry looks like the sort of player who will only shine in games where he is given a bit of space. A waste of time when you play teams that are in your face which is probably most of the teams in the SPL.

 

He has undoubted talent but I am not yet convinced he has the right attributes to be a first choice starter.

 

This is probably why he is out on loan in the frist place to see if he has what it takes.

 

Early days yet for him but he needs to toughen up and show more desire to win the ball and keep it.

I think away games are where he could shine more, especially with time running down as we saw in Perth. At home I don't see him as a game changer as yet. He was no improvement on McKay last night anyway, when he tried to shield the ball or go round players he was too easily shoved off it. 

[wavydavy]

42 minutes ago, PhoenixHearts said:

 

I may be on an island here but I've always been a huge proponent of playing a right footed forward on the left and vice versa. LW cutting in and hitting off his right give him an easier angle to curl into the back post top bin 🙂

 

 

 

It has it's uses however it can become very predictable knowing that most of the time the player is going to go infield to get on their favoured foot making it easier for the defender to keep then on the outside on their weaker foot.

 

How many times do we see that with Cochrane in the LWB role passing backwards when the ball comes to him on his weaker foot.

[Cambo_Jambo]

3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Lowry arrived and his first game was brilliant. There's no denying the lad has talent on the ball. Its when he DOESNT have the ball that he just looks lazy and uninterested. We cant carry passengers in games.

I agree with this. He's tricky but I don't think he's a  'full game' Premier League standard player yet.

 

He'll do fine this season with cameos in the last 10 mins when we're looking for something against tired full backs but I'd not want him starting regularly.

 

He looked positionally lost last night, when Mackay had been quite disciplined and his performance defensively was poor.

 

All things you'd expect from a young talent but I don't see him being a solution out wide for us.

 

 

[boag1874]

2 hours ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

I dont think he is a winger. Looked a bit lost out there. Better centrally picking pockets of space

I don't think he's a winger at all no, I actually don't recall him playing there for Rangers either so I'm not sure what we're playing him there for, I thought he was more of a no.10 type