Miller Jambo 60 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 So he wont raise fuel duty by 2p a litre. Wow need to go and celebrate not. why not bring it down. Labour are Tory end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.N.T.H. Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Doug, chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chester copperpot Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 So he wont raise fuel duty by 2p a litre.Wow need to go and celebrate not. why not bring it down. Labour are Tory end of. The only part I disagree with, although thats probably the main part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest juvehearts Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Because if labour bring down fuel duty by 2p, that takes another 1b off our (uk) budget. meaning 2 things, First, less money for schools, NHS, policing. e.c.t Secondly Another tax will go up to try & recover the lost revinue from oil. lets not forget we have been lucky the last 10 years under labour that we have been better off that we have ever been at any time in uk's history. now the economy has sort of dried up, everyone's living expences have went up & the wadges are the same, unemployment has went down although its still up under labour's reign. You cant have your cake & eat it, we have all made our bed's. anyone got any kind of decent savings?? i know im well buggered when it comes to the crunch. the rich times are over now, time to knuckle down & get to running this country the best way possiable, time for change? i dont know only if change happens will we ever know. not that i dont want labour to leave, i am SNP we (scotland) have never been indipendent & dont want to balls it up If we do eventually go it alone if it does go t*ts up then we dont want to grovvel back to westminster with our tales between our legs. i say this because we have never been indpendent & the funny thing is that most of us are scared of going that way as its something new. england mostly are scared of us doing this as they need us more that we need them. but my only beef with the lot is healthcare, what will happen to the NHS? too many unanswered questions yet for this to happen, it is on the horison but IMO its only a mirage & it will never happen in my lifetime as the safeguard that is europe aint as good as the union we have now. juve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Spackler Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Because if labour bring down fuel duty by 2p, that takes another 1b off our (uk) budget. The money the government receives needn't go up or down. They could vary the duty dependant on the oil price and protect the consumer from fluctuations. There may wider economic implications such that the government shouldn't do this but as I'm not an economist I can't think of any. The government must be raking in oil revenue just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest juvehearts Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 The money the government receives needn't go up or down. They could vary the duty dependant on the oil price and protect the consumer from fluctuations. There may wider economic implications such that the government shouldn't do this but as I'm not an economist I can't think of any. The government must be raking in oil revenue just now. Yeah why do you think the chancellor froze fuel duty for the last year. your last point about raking it in, yes they are but & here comes the but, without it we would be a 3rd world country dependent on farming & exportng. the Uk is a major player in world politicts because we are a strong nation of people determined to be the best of the best & imo we are. we have the best army in the world the best navy in the world best air force in the world We are the 2nd biggest spenders on the armed forces in the world. this is only possiable due to the smooth running of this beautiful country, you can't possiably say that you are poor can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Spackler Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Yeah why do you think the chancellor froze fuel duty for the last year. your last point about raking it in, yes they are but & here comes the but, without it we would be a 3rd world country dependent on farming & exportng. the Uk is a major player in world politicts because we are a strong nation of people determined to be the best of the best & imo we are. we have the best army in the world the best navy in the world best air force in the world We are the 2nd biggest spenders on the armed forces in the world. this is only possiable due to the smooth running of this beautiful country, you can't possiably say that you are poor can you? I didn't say I was poor but everything is relative. People have less money in their pocket just now because the price of fuel is high. The price of essential items is going up as a consequence of the fuel price. The price of luxury goods is going down. It is in the government's interest to keep the economy growing steadily. It will not grow steadily if people have less money in their pocket and if businesses go to the wall because their costs are spiralling. The government can intervene to control inflation by cutting fuel duty. The other mechanism, increasing interest rates is not going to work as inflation is not being driven by consumer demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 The only part I disagree with, although thats probably the main part. I think Thatcher summed it up perfectly when a journalist once asked her what her biggest acheivement as Conservative leader was, her answer - 'New Labour' Tony Blair was as much 'Labour' as David Cameron is 'Tory'. Its all about getting elected and telling the people what they want to hear and capturing that vital centre ground. Labour are on about as good terms with the Unions as the S.N.P are with westminster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillie chris Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 The problem we now have is with the slow down in the mortgage industry and people not buying houses. There will be further losses in revenue from stamp duty. 6.4 Billion was raised in stamp duty in 2006-2007:confused: We are doomed i tell ya doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Correct. The red ink is all over the UK Government accounts. It wouldn't surprise me if Labour had to cut public spending in real terms in the 2009 budget as the revenue proceeds collapse from stamp duty. OK, they will have a windfall from North Sea Oil, particularly as the pound has managed to hold its strength against the dollar despite falling against everywhere else but the extra revenue will be needed to pay the increase in people signing on. I laugh at the prosperity argument because it was at this point that the government should have been running a surplus. Instead, they splurged it on the NHS and it disappeared into management consultants and other such wasters rather than trying to sort out the system and drive efficiencies that way first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 If they weren't such a disgusting bunch who have ruined the economy in this country, Brown and Darling would just be laughable. A pair of economic illiterates changing their budget week by week and to try to bribe by-election electorates. This one takes the biscuit - their tax bribe is that they aren't going to put tax up! Darling dares to call himself the Chancellor when it is obvious to all that Brown is still the Chancellor. The worst of it all is that all these 'measures to help hard-pressed families' (wonder what happened to the 'measures to help hard-working families' now that unemployment is soaring) are just going to make even more of a mess of the public finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrrrrrrr Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 If they weren't such a disgusting bunch who have ruined the economy in this country, Brown and Darling would just be laughable. A pair of economic illiterates changing their budget week by week and to try to bribe by-election electorates. This one takes the biscuit - their tax bribe is that they aren't going to put tax up! Darling dares to call himself the Chancellor when it is obvious to all that Brown is still the Chancellor. The worst of it all is that all these 'measures to help hard-pressed families' (wonder what happened to the 'measures to help hard-working families' now that unemployment is soaring) are just going to make even more of a mess of the public finances. A disgusting bunch who have ensured that we live in a economically and technology advanced country and have a major say in world economy and politics. Budgets are not meant to be set in stone, it would be incompetence if they were not flexible in changing circumstances such as vastly increasing oil prices. I dont see what the hassle is here, they have deferred a tax increase as the public are already paying for increased oil prices A mess of finances? How exactly it would make far more a mess if they cut the taxes and taxed elsewhere Frankly anyone who thinks SNP are the answer or that SNP would cut taxes is a bit on the simple side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 A disgusting bunch who have ensured that we live in a economically and technology advanced country and have a major say in world economy and politics. Gordon Brown and his brown nosed supplicant Alastair Darling? Are you sure? Budgets are not meant to be set in stone' date=' it would be incompetence if they were not flexible in changing circumstances such as vastly increasing oil prices. I dont see what the hassle is here, they have deferred a tax increase as the public are already paying for increased oil prices [/quote'] The Treasury is raking in hugely above budget amounts in the various taxes including VAT on fuel. It would be tax neutral - compared to their previous estimates - if they were to significantly cut the various duties on fuel. Not by postponing an increase in their latest attempt to 'buy' a by-election. A mess of finances? How exactly it would make far more a mess if they cut the taxes and taxed elsewhere Laffer Curves are perhaps not necessarily accepted as FACT in the economics world. But they would suggest that the tax take could perhaps increase if taxes were cut rather than increased. Given the tax burden in the UK is so large - particularly on fuel - then it is probable that activity would rise if taxes were cut. Anyway when the country is tumbling into recession or perhaps slump' date=' it is not perhaps such a great idea to rake in extra tax on economic activity. Frankly anyone who thinks SNP are the answer or that SNP would cut taxes is a bit on the simple side Now that is high quality political analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 A disgusting bunch who have ensured that we live in a economically and technology advanced country and have a major say in world economy and politics. Budgets are not meant to be set in stone, it would be incompetence if they were not flexible in changing circumstances such as vastly increasing oil prices. I dont see what the hassle is here, they have deferred a tax increase as the public are already paying for increased oil prices A mess of finances? How exactly it would make far more a mess if they cut the taxes and taxed elsewhere Frankly anyone who thinks SNP are the answer or that SNP would cut taxes is a bit on the simple side honestly can't think why i was surprised, even for just a second, that you would be a Labour supporter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 A disgusting bunch who have ensured that we live in a economically and technology advanced country and have a major say in world economy and politics. Er, I can't recall any changes in British membership of bodies like the G8 etc. since Labour took power in 1997. The UK has always punched above its true political weight, thanks to its history and close relationship with the US, irrespective of whoever the Westminster government is. Budgets are not meant to be set in stone, it would be incompetence if they were not flexible in changing circumstances such as vastly increasing oil prices. They aren't meant to be set on the hoof either. The appropriate time for a change like this would have been the Autumn statement. This is clearly pork barrel politics rather than anything economic. It won't work because people aren't listening to them anymore. I dont see what the hassle is here, they have deferred a tax increase as the public are already paying for increased oil prices. Indeed, but why announce it now when it wasn't due to take effect until September? Surely nothing to do with a by-election that could see Gordon Brown jacket fall off the shoogly peg. A mess of finances? How exactly it would make far more a mess if they cut the taxes and taxed elsewhere. It's over a cycle. The only successful thing Brown has ever done is to make the Bank of England independent and follow Ken Clarke's spending patterns in the first two years of a Labour government. After that, using inappropriate European style inflation measures has created a property boom that has started to come crashing down, with nothing in the Government coffers to mitigate the effects. Frankly anyone who thinks SNP are the answer or that SNP would cut taxes is a bit on the simple side I obviously no longer vote in UK elections but it says a lot that Labour lost to the SNP in the first place under this wonderful 'economic miracle'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 The Treasury is raking in hugely above budget amounts in the various taxes including VAT on fuel. It would be tax neutral - compared to their previous estimates - if they were to significantly cut the various duties on fuel. Not by postponing an increase in their latest attempt to 'buy' a by-election. I think this a huge and under emphasised point. Petrol has gone up in price by 20-25p a litre in the past year, the VAT windfall for the treasury of 17.5% of that is between 3.5 and 4.3p for every litre. So in real terms the treasury has been raking in double the proposed increase for months now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Harris Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 indeed, it's ridiculous that they tax the tax the tax on fuel should be a flat percentage rather than a combination of two taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 10 years in government during economic boom with increased tax takes and what is left in the coffers for the hard times? Nothing NO reserves, no fall back, no savings All of it spent Freeze duty yet hugely increase road tax on most vehicles- yes they must think we are stupid, and , frankly, most of the population are Anyone who is not a total window licker would be clinically insane to vote for this mob again Total fiscal incompetence of the highest order for an entire decade while the populace is encouraged to spend its way through the hard times and keep the economy going, only now we cannot do that any more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I think this a huge and under emphasised point. Petrol has gone up in price by 20-25p a litre in the past year, the VAT windfall for the treasury of 17.5% of that is between 3.5 and 4.3p for every litre. So in real terms the treasury has been raking in double the proposed increase for months now. This is true - the Gov't keep it quiet that due to the link to price they are actually raking in double the amount they are "giving back". Once you add that to the stealth tax on vehicle duty then you see how much more they are taking. However, the economy is faltering now and they have nothing in reserve. I see another "winter of discontent" coming once pay restraint kicks in. Anyone who remembers the last one will know that times are going to get really tough and ultimately the Gov't will be kicked out in disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Boy Named Crow Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 There has been no economic miracle under New Labour. They were extremely lucky to take over when they did. The world economy was favourable and they reaped the rewards. Brown's nonsense about prudence was just politician's spin - look at what he did to the future of this country by robbing every single person who had the foresight to contribute to a pension scheme! I think t was The Doctor who pointied out earlier on that he stedfastly refused to put anything away "for a rainy day" while this was going on. Labour have been a catasrophe for this country. The OP called them Tories, and I think he was mocked for it. Go to You Tube, type in "The Greed Game". It was a BBC doumentary, I would post a link, but it's in short clips on You Tube. Basically it starts by pointing out how since 1997 New Labour have rollewd over and let the mega rich tickle their bellies. Check it out. They are defo the new right wing. Wealth redistribution was forgotten a long time ago, words cannot describe just how much I hate that party. The Tories at least were up front about what they were doing. Thatcher for all that came of it, did what she said she'd do. Labour lie, lie and lie again. Then when they get caught they just lie some more. It makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 There has been no economic miracle under New Labour. They were extremely lucky to take over when they did. The world economy was favourable and they reaped the rewards. Brown's nonsense about prudence was just politician's spin - look at what he did to the future of this country by robbing every single person who had the foresight to contribute to a pension scheme! I think t was The Doctor who pointied out earlier on that he stedfastly refused to put anything away "for a rainy day" while this was going on. Labour have been a catasrophe for this country. The OP called them Tories, and I think he was mocked for it. Go to You Tube, type in "The Greed Game". It was a BBC doumentary, I would post a link, but it's in short clips on You Tube. Basically it starts by pointing out how since 1997 New Labour have rollewd over and let the mega rich tickle their bellies. Check it out. They are defo the new right wing. Wealth redistribution was forgotten a long time ago, words cannot describe just how much I hate that party. The Tories at least were up front about what they were doing. Thatcher for all that came of it, did what she said she'd do. Labour lie, lie and lie again. Then when they get caught they just lie some more. It makes me sick. I would dispute that they are the Tories. The TOries steered this country through hard times by hard measures and came out the other side still in government Labour have steered this country into hard times and ensured that we have no back up plan 10 years of good times yet the tax burden rose consistently throughout this period when it should have fallen, ensuring the working people of this nation had no savings to fall back on in hard times Now the hard times are here, and they will be harder than before Labour will not survive this, and rightly so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I would dispute that they are the Tories.The TOries steered this country through hard times by hard measures and came out the other side still in government Labour have steered this country into hard times and ensured that we have no back up plan 10 years of good times yet the tax burden rose consistently throughout this period when it should have fallen, ensuring the working people of this nation had no savings to fall back on in hard times Now the hard times are here, and they will be harder than before Labour will not survive this, and rightly so Yep. They are not like the Tories. The Tories steered the economy by reducing taxes which stimulated growth. Labour increase taxes and this controls growth. The problem is that when the economy was strong both approaches are OK, but when an economy falters, the Labour method unravels, as it is doing now. History is repeating itself, and Labour have nothing in reserve to offer. Hazel Blears, Harriet Harman, and all the "Blair Babes" - your holiday is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Boy Named Crow Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 When I said they were Tories I meant ideologically. They now seem to embrace the idea that if you promote high earners to earn you will get a trickle down to the lower orders. This was always the way of the right - the left just trying to rob the rich of their earnings through taxation. Labour being Labour they made an arse of it. When you look at the Labour benches now they are just a rabble of professional politicians and union reps. I may be being a tad elitist here, but I reckon it takes some big brains to run a country well, and Labour just ain't got any!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 When I said they were Tories I meant ideologically. They now seem to embrace the idea that if you promote high earners to earn you will get a trickle down to the lower orders. This was always the way of the right - the left just trying to rob the rich of their earnings through taxation. Labour being Labour they made an arse of it. When you look at the Labour benches now they are just a rabble of professional politicians and union reps. I may be being a tad elitist here, but I reckon it takes some big brains to run a country well, and Labour just ain't got any!!! On this we agree. Labour are a bunch of lightweights that have been exposed now the going got tough. It goes to show that during the Blair years when the world economy was buoyant they all cruised along thinking it was because of them. Now the tables have turned, the following are exposed as being hapless airheads - Douglas Alexander Wendy Alexander Ruth Kelly Harriet Harman Jacqui Smith Hazel Blears Tessa Jowell Feck them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I may be a few pence out either way, but isn't it about 68 pence of your pound tax? If that is the case, what is two pence?!?!?!?!? If this drops we will simply get hit elsewhere. I personally blame all those terrilby PC smokers that stopped paying our taxes for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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