Mini Budget

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

It's not "upwardly mobile", but "look after no. 1 and tax averse, mobile"

Indeed. 

[The Mighty Thor]

See how we've got all these bankers in the 'cornerstone' of our economy, who need to be highly paid to carry out their vital work? 

 

How come our economy is being rinsed down the shitter? 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, BlueRiver said:

Given the easily found articles that cite multiple factors for folk’s exodus of California I think blaming it squarely on housing prices alone is a bit of a tunnel-vision approach. 
 

 

 

I'm sure there are articles aplenty with folk blaming it on "wokeness" or terror in the streets or some such, but I've never seen one that was at all well substantiated. As it is, I didn't say it was only about housing—the COVID-driven accelerated shift to remote work is a huge part of it—but go simply have a look at apartment listings in San Francisco. Housing is the biggest part of most people's budgets, and people can make themselves enormous amounts of money if they can work San Jose tech jobs and pay Boise housing costs.

 

The moving of tech jobs out of California has had a direct impact on our housing market here in North Carolina. Google, Apple, Facebook, and Amazon are all opening or expanding their branch offices here by large amounts, and it's driven housing through the roof, because people can sell their shacks in California for a million dollars then come to NC and pay 25% over what had been market value and get a house twice the size for $500k.

 

Needless to say, you don't have housing prices like that if you have a state in complete decay, as the reactionaries would have you believe.

 

48 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Is it not fair to say there have been moves from across the US to Florida/Texas in particular because of their zero income tax rules?

 

I mean literal blood sucking billionaire vampires like Peter Thiel certainly have, and I'm sure there's plenty more. It's a win if you're at the very top of the income brackets, but for everyone else, they have to make up so much of their revenue in other taxes it's a wash. Washington State and Washington DC have substantially higher income tax rates and are growing at a faster rate than Florida. And have a look at Florida's demographics:

 

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/state-profiles/state/demographics/FL

 

The vast majority of Florida's growth is a combination of retirees from the northeast moving to warmer weather and immigrants from Latin America moving to a place where it's extremely easy to live with little to no English. The evidence in those data for a tax-driven move is very thin.

[Dazo]

13 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Oh no!

 

How will the boys get their tax havens in Berwick with their £330 a year now?

 

Won't somebody think of the upwardly mobile Scottish workforce. 

Get a fee free mortgage ? 

[Mikey1874]

34 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The Halifax is now getting twitchy about new mortgages.

 

 

 

Tending 

 

[manaliveits105]

Don’t worry be happy 🙂

[The Mighty Thor]

7 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Get a fee free mortgage ? 

😂

[Japan Jambo]

14 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I'm sure there are articles aplenty with folk blaming it on "wokeness" or terror in the streets or some such, but I've never seen one that was at all well substantiated. As it is, I didn't say it was only about housing—the COVID-driven accelerated shift to remote work is a huge part of it—but go simply have a look at apartment listings in San Francisco. Housing is the biggest part of most people's budgets, and people can make themselves enormous amounts of money if they can work San Jose tech jobs and pay Boise housing costs.

 

The moving of tech jobs out of California has had a direct impact on our housing market here in North Carolina. Google, Apple, Facebook, and Amazon are all opening or expanding their branch offices here by large amounts, and it's driven housing through the roof, because people can sell their shacks in California for a million dollars then come to NC and pay 25% over what had been market value and get a house twice the size for $500k.

 

Needless to say, you don't have housing prices like that if you have a state in complete decay, as the reactionaries would have you believe.

 

 

I mean literal blood sucking billionaire vampires like Peter Thiel certainly have, and I'm sure there's plenty more. It's a win if you're at the very top of the income brackets, but for everyone else, they have to make up so much of their revenue in other taxes it's a wash. Washington State and Washington DC have substantially higher income tax rates and are growing at a faster rate than Florida. And have a look at Florida's demographics:

 

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/state-profiles/state/demographics/FL

 

The vast majority of Florida's growth is a combination of retirees from the northeast moving to warmer weather and immigrants from Latin America moving to a place where it's extremely easy to live with little to no English. The evidence in those data for a tax-driven move is very thin.

 

Thanks, makes sense. 

[BlueRiver]

39 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I'm sure there are articles aplenty with folk blaming it on "wokeness" or terror in the streets or some such, but I've never seen one that was at all well substantiated. As it is, I didn't say it was only about housing—the COVID-driven accelerated shift to remote work is a huge part of it—but go simply have a look at apartment listings in San Francisco. Housing is the biggest part of most people's budgets, and people can make themselves enormous amounts of money if they can work San Jose tech jobs and pay Boise housing costs.

 

The moving of tech jobs out of California has had a direct impact on our housing market here in North Carolina. Google, Apple, Facebook, and Amazon are all opening or expanding their branch offices here by large amounts, and it's driven housing through the roof, because people can sell their shacks in California for a million dollars then come to NC and pay 25% over what had been market value and get a house twice the size for $500k.

 

Needless to say, you don't have housing prices like that if you have a state in complete decay, as the reactionaries would have you believe.

 

 

I mean literal blood sucking billionaire vampires like Peter Thiel certainly have, and I'm sure there's plenty more. It's a win if you're at the very top of the income brackets, but for everyone else, they have to make up so much of their revenue in other taxes it's a wash. Washington State and Washington DC have substantially higher income tax rates and are growing at a faster rate than Florida. And have a look at Florida's demographics:

 

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/state-profiles/state/demographics/FL

 

The vast majority of Florida's growth is a combination of retirees from the northeast moving to warmer weather and immigrants from Latin America moving to a place where it's extremely easy to live with little to no English. The evidence in those data for a tax-driven move is very thin.

Oh it happened here during Covid with people looking to ditch expensive city properties to go ramp up the prices in more rural areas like mine. Selling a hovel in the city and getting a nice three bedroom with a garden 15 miles away. 
 

I would’ve just thought that if it were down to housing primarily, you’d look to move elsewhere but remain in the same state. Admittedly though, applying UK-style thinking to USA doesn’t always work as I suppose large numbers of those  leaving weren’t necessarily Californians to begin with. 
 

With regards to the tech company moving or expanding more operations to other states, is that tax driven or regulatory? 

[Ked]

As oil is traded in the US Dollar its easy to see the bottom line in nearly every major conflict of the last 50 years give or take.

And while this mini budget is racked by the internal politics of tories it is testament to the bookies nature of the stock exchanges .

I don't know the answer but my own views on economics are being questioned by myself.

A subject close to my heart ..housing ..looks likely to suffer .

It's a mess .

We really need to govern our own affairs.

And sooner rather than later.

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 minute ago, BlueRiver said:

Oh it happened here during Covid with people looking to ditch expensive city properties to go ramp up the prices in more rural areas like mine. Selling a hovel in the city and getting a nice three bedroom with a garden 15 miles away. 
 

I would’ve just thought that if it were down to housing primarily, you’d look to move elsewhere but remain in the same state. Admittedly though, applying UK-style thinking to USA doesn’t always work as I suppose large numbers of those  leaving weren’t necessarily Californians to begin with. 
 

With regards to the tech company moving or expanding more operations to other states, is that tax driven or regulatory? 

 

California is an odd place in a lot of ways. There's not a real sense of what a "Californian" is, because in 1900 its population smaller than Northern Ireland is now. For the vast majority of the population, even if you were born there, your grandparents probably weren't.

 

And in terms of geography and climate, you can move within the state a very short distance and feel like you've traveled a thousand miles. Because of ocean and hill effects, the forecasts in the big cities have two highs and two lows, and than can be literally 20 degrees C apart from each other on the same day. One day when I was visiting the SF peninsula had high temps of 16 while in the suburbs east of Oakland the high was 32 C. Madness.

 

My father and I took a trip one year to northern California, and went through Eureka and Humboldt up north, then over to Weaverville (which got terribly burned by fire a few years later). We thought since we were in NoCal, it would be cool. Well, Eureka was nice and cool (and chill, considering its reputation as a worldwide mecca for weed) but Weaverville was the hottest place we'd ever been, and the vibe was much more of the rugged western individualist. It was 106 F on the rental car thermometer driving out of Weaverville, and we passed a sign saying 46 miles to Eureka. I turned to my dad and joked, yeah, and 46 degrees. Sure enough, when we pulled into Eureka, the car thermometer said 60 F.

 

Also, folk who live in the big, progressive coastal cities generally don't want to move to the much more suburban OC or Inland Empire (where housing prices aren't as high but are still really high). They're happier moving to a city in another state. Cities like Denver and the New Mexico cities have seen tons of folks from California moving in because the scenery is different but still gorgeous and they still get a bit of city life.

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. She's certainly not the Messiah and in all likelihood, a very naughty girl. Those Kamikwasi friendships with currency speculators alluded to above absolutely stink to the skies.

 

Good chance she'll beat Alex Douglas-Home's post war record for shortest serving PM methinks (1year: 1963-64).  

Yeah Halloween ironically I reckon 😆. 

[heartsfc_fan]

In better news, got an email from Bulb and my monthly energy payment is going down £4 a month from next month due to the government £400 help.

 

yay

[WorldChampions1902]

3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Don’t worry be happy 🙂

 

[Footballfirst]

It's hitting the music business now.

 

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

On 25/09/2022 at 09:03, ri Alban said:

Do travellers even pay tax from their Gated sites in Berwick.

 

Ask @Nucky Thompson

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Ask @Nucky Thompson

🤣 

 

@Nucky Thompson Answer the question.

[ri Alban]

What I meant earlier is, I don't want people to suffer, just to get the Tories out. There has to be some way to get rid of them now, or make them change this shite.

[il Duce McTarkin]

17 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

What I meant earlier is, I don't want people to suffer, just to get the Tories out. There has to be some way to get rid of them now, or make them change this shite.

 

I like you best when you're calling for forced expulsions, pain, and gruesome death, tbh. 🤷‍♂️

 

Play to your strengths, man. 👍

[ri Alban]

5 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

I like you best when you're calling for forced expulsions, pain, and gruesome death, tbh. 🤷‍♂️

 

Play to your strengths, man. 👍

Not for the people. The ***** who play them.

[Malinga the Swinga]

So any tax payers in Scotland paying more than £14.7k a year are worse off than those in England.

Doesn't excuse the omni-shambles that we are seeing just now, but it is frustrating.

At the moment, Scottish folk are getting worst of both worlds. High taxes, increasing interest rates and high council tax.

 

[Jeff]

13 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

So any tax payers in Scotland paying more than £14.7k a year are worse off than those in England.

Doesn't excuse the omni-shambles that we are seeing just now, but it is frustrating.

At the moment, Scottish folk are getting worst of both worlds. High taxes, increasing interest rates and high council tax.

 

 

Don't forget the energy standing charges!

[Unknown user]

21 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

So any tax payers in Scotland paying more than £14.7k a year are worse off than those in England.

Doesn't excuse the omni-shambles that we are seeing just now, but it is frustrating.

At the moment, Scottish folk are getting worst of both worlds. High taxes, increasing interest rates and high council tax.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Don't forget the energy standing charges!

 

There's your union!

[periodictabledancer]

41 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

So any tax payers in Scotland paying more than £14.7k a year are worse off than those in England.

Doesn't excuse the omni-shambles that we are seeing just now, but it is frustrating.

At the moment, Scottish folk are getting worst of both worlds. High taxes, increasing interest rates and high council tax.

 

They elected a government to do this. 

Naturally you focus on "tax" and not the exhorbitant standing charges for energy in a country which is a net exporter of energy nor the primary school economics of  London govt that just gave the average Joes peanuts in tax cuts while exposing them to potentially huge increases in mortgages which will wipe out those gains in a heartbeat.

Meanwhile the pound plummets and the markets are ditching sterling as worthless. 

The Tory party must love people like you. 🐑

[periodictabledancer]

15 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Tending 

 

My missus works for a mortgage advisor : they have been inundated with punters looking for new deals because they're having to extend their current mortgages by 3/4/5 years due to the current dire state of the economy. 

They are also seeing properties being down-valued (based on sellers valuation) on an every day basis. 

She said last week she expected that some mortgage deals would be withdrawn as the markets are so volatile it's costing the lenders money due to the rapid changes in the market.  Now expecting to be a slow down in offers from some lenders while things stabilize. If they do. 

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

So any tax payers in Scotland paying more than £14.7k a year are worse off than those in England.

Doesn't excuse the omni-shambles that we are seeing just now, but it is frustrating.

At the moment, Scottish folk are getting worst of both worlds. High taxes, increasing interest rates and high council tax.

 

 

A whopping £22 per year for those on £15k and £377 per year for those on £150k.

 

Brexit has hurt most people's wallets considerably more than Scottish tax rates.

 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

4 hours ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

I like you best when you're calling for forced expulsions, pain, and gruesome death, tbh. 🤷‍♂️

 

Play to your strengths, man. 👍

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

So any tax payers in Scotland paying more than £14.7k a year are worse off than those in England.

Doesn't excuse the omni-shambles that we are seeing just now, but it is frustrating.

At the moment, Scottish folk are getting worst of both worlds. High taxes, increasing interest rates and high council tax.

 

 

However will you survive?

 

How's the house hunting in Berwick going? Better get in quick cos the SNP are about to tank the economy and make sure interest rates are heading to 6%.

 

Kwasi Kwarteng is in the SNP right?

[Dazo]

26 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

A whopping £22 per year for those on £15k and £377 per year for those on £150k.

 

Brexit has hurt most people's wallets considerably more than Scottish tax rates.

 

 

The tax is already significantly more than those figures for people  on decent but not high earners. The numbers you quoted are just from the mini budget. 

[That thing you do]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

So any tax payers in Scotland paying more than £14.7k a year are worse off than those in England.

Doesn't excuse the omni-shambles that we are seeing just now, but it is frustrating.

At the moment, Scottish folk are getting worst of both worlds. High taxes, increasing interest rates and high council tax.

 

Higher taxes, better services, lower waiting times.

 

Say what you like about scope to improve but our lot is way better in Scotland

[Dazo]

5 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

Higher taxes, better services, lower waiting times.

 

Say what you like about scope to improve but our lot is way better in Scotland

So you pay more you get more ? Who’d have thought it. 😂

[The Mighty Thor]

15 minutes ago, Dazo said:

The tax is already significantly more than those figures for people  on decent but not high earners. The numbers you quoted are just from the mini budget. 

Current Tax rates 2022-23

 

Low earner - £15,000      Scot = 465 pa     Eng  = 486 pa

 

Average Wage - £30,000    Scot = 3512 pa     Eng = 3486 pa

 

Higher Wage - £45,000    Scot = 6929 pa     Eng = 6486 pa

 

It's not significantly anything is it?

 

low earners are 21 quid better off, Average earners are 26 pounds a year worse off and that goes to a stratospheric 443 pounds if you hit the higher tax bracket in Scotland. 

 

As has been repeated many times, that's the Tax regime in Scotland. You either accept it or you exercise your given right to live in another place where you find the tax regime more palatable. 

 

personally i've got no issue paying what i'm due and continuing to live in East Lothian. That's my choice. I respect others that want to move away to better themselves. Good luck to them. 

 

[Ray Gin]

26 minutes ago, Dazo said:

The tax is already significantly more than those figures for people  on decent but not high earners. The numbers you quoted are just from the mini budget. 

 

Add to Tory Lies thread.

[Dazo]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Current Tax rates 2022-23

 

Low earner - £15,000      Scot = 465 pa     Eng  = 486 pa

 

Average Wage - £30,000    Scot = 3512 pa     Eng = 3486 pa

 

Higher Wage - £45,000    Scot = 6929 pa     Eng = 6486 pa

 

It's not significantly anything is it?

 

low earners are 21 quid better off, Average earners are 26 pounds a year worse off and that goes to a stratospheric 443 pounds if you hit the higher tax bracket in Scotland. 

 

As has been repeated many times, that's the Tax regime in Scotland. You either accept it or you exercise your given right to live in another place where you find the tax regime more palatable. 

 

personally i've got no issue paying what i'm due and continuing to live in East Lothian. That's my choice. I respect others that want to move away to better themselves. Good luck to them. 

 

I accept it but also reserve the right to moan about it. 😊

 

£45k higher wage ? Did you pick that cut off on purpose ? 

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Add to Tory Lies thread.

Your post ? Done. 👍

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I accept it but also reserve the right to moan about it. 😊

 

£45k higher wage ? Did you pick that cut off on purpose ? 

 

You said decent but not high earner. £45k is a reasonable cut off for that definition.

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

You said decent but not high earner. £45k is a reasonable cut off for that definition.

At £50k it’s about £1500 difference, unless the government tax calculator is wrong. I’d say that is a decent wage and significantly different. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Dazo

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Dazo said:

At £50k it’s about £1500 difference, unless the government tax calculator is wrong. I’d say that is a decent wage and significantly different. 

 

If you are getting paid 66% higher than the average wage of the highest paid area of the country, I'd say you've gone beyond "decent" territory.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

11 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I accept it but also reserve the right to moan about it. 😊

 

£45k higher wage ? Did you pick that cut off on purpose ? 

it's the ceiling for higher tax rate in Scotland or there abouts

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

If you are getting paid 66% higher than the average wage of the highest paid area of the country, I'd say you've gone beyond "decent" territory.

 

Aye decent might not be the right word there but it isn’t the sort of wage that should have that sort of difference. 

[Victorian]

See when you're woofing about a divergence in the tax rates,  you would tend to be on less shaky ground if you can first demonstrate that the new,  lower tax rates in one part of the country is the correct,  economically prudent,  socially just thing.  

 

Lower tax rate does not automatically become the demonstrably correct tax rate by virtue of it being lower.

[Taffin]

35 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

Higher taxes, better services, lower waiting times.

 

Say what you like about scope to improve but our lot is way better in Scotland

 

That's good to read, it must have improved a lot since I left 👍

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

See when you're woofing about a divergence in the tax rates,  you would tend to be on less shaky ground if you can first demonstrate that the new,  lower tax rates in one part of the country is the correct,  economically prudent,  socially just thing.  

 

Lower tax rate does not automatically become the demonstrably correct tax rate by virtue of it being lower.

I was happily moaning about the tax rates before the mini budget shitshow. 
 

Still drug, alcohol deaths and the worst A&E waiting times on record make it socially just. We are all getting the benefits  👍

 

bus passes though. 😂

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I was happily moaning about the tax rates before the mini budget shitshow. 
 

Still drug, alcohol deaths and the worst A&E waiting times on record make it socially just. We are all getting the benefits  👍

 

bus passes though. 😂

always with them negative waves Moriarty.

 

I hear that the incredibly well run tax haven utopia of Berwickshire is proving to be popular with disaffected JKB members.

 

No drug deaths, no alcohol deaths and absolutely no NHS or GP waiting times. No bus pass though, soz. 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

9 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I was happily moaning about the tax rates before the mini budget shitshow. 
 

Still drug, alcohol deaths and the worst A&E waiting times on record make it socially just. We are all getting the benefits  👍

 

bus passes though. 😂

 

How are the A&E waiting times in the English tax havens doing?

[Ray Gin]

Child Bus Pass is £18 for 20 trips. That'll do 2 weeks for a kid getting a bus to and from school every day.

x19 for the year = £342.

 

So the bus pass that's being scoffed at more than covers the additional tax paid for anyone on the average wage with a kid getting a bus to school.
 

[Dazo]

7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

How are the A&E waiting times in the English tax havens doing?

Worse, they pay less for that though. 😊

[Victorian]

21 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I was happily moaning about the tax rates before the mini budget shitshow. 
 

Still drug, alcohol deaths and the worst A&E waiting times on record make it socially just. We are all getting the benefits  👍

 

bus passes though. 😂

 

Some peripheral spending choices are debatable and certainly not automatically best value by virtue of being devolved decisions.  But the bottom line is that it is now left to others to occupy the job of fiscal responsibility,  now that there is a vacuum of it where the power of fiscal levers lies.

[Dazo]

11 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Some peripheral spending choices are debatable and certainly not automatically best value by virtue of being devolved decisions.  But the bottom line is that it is now left to others to occupy the job of fiscal responsibility,  now that there is a vacuum of it where the power of fiscal levers lies.

Bottom line for me currently they are all ****ing useless, Westminster has a bigger pot to make more mess with though. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Bottom line for me currently they are all ****ing useless, Westminster has a bigger pot to make more mess with though. 

You'd best watch your words. Slating current Tory government as useless incompetents and criticising Scottish government for their failings makes you a Tory on here, or it does to the nationalists.

The whole ****ing lot of them want chasing out if power and replaced by someone who has a clue and isn't driven by one fixed ideology.

SNP - independence over everything and anyone

Tories - market deregulation over everything and anyone