VAR "improvement"?

[tian447]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59461288

 

Quote

The use of technology to help officials make more accurate offside decisions will be tested at the Fifa Arab Cup, which starts on Tuesday.

"Semi-automated offsides" work using between 10 and 12 cameras which collect up to 29 data points for every player 50 times per second.

If it spots a potential offside an alert is sent to the video assistant referee (VAR), who has the final call.

The technology could be used at the 2022 Fifa World Cup.

 

"VAR has had a very positive impact in football and the number of major mistakes is reduced, but there are areas where it can be improved - and offside is one of them," said Pierluigi Collina, Fifa's chief refereeing officer.

"We are aware the process to check offsides can take longer [than other decisions], especially when it is very tight. We are also aware that the positioning of the lines may not be 100% accurate.

"For this reason Fifa is developing a technology which could offer faster and more accurate answers. This is known as semi-automated offside.

"For offside the decision is taken after analysing the position of players, but also their involvement in play. Technology can draw a line but the assessment remains in the referee's hands. This remains crucial."

 

Since the introduction of VAR in Europe's major leagues, offside decisions have been among the most controversial, with some goals being ruled out by the smallest of margins. Roberto Firmino's strike for Liverpool against Aston Villa in 2019, for example, was ruled out because his armpit was offside.

 

Planned trials of the new technology during 2020 were disrupted by the coronavirus pandemic, but tests have taken place in England, Spain and Germany.

 

The Arab Cup, which features 16 teams and is staged across six stadiums in Qatar, is the most significant trial for the technology yet.

 

"It is based on limb-tracking technology," said Fifa's football technology and innovation director Johannes Holzmuller.

"Software is processing this data and, in case of an offside offence, an automated alert is sent to the video operations room. That's the reason we call it 'semi-automated' - at the end it is still the VAR who has to validate and confirm the proposed offside. Then the VAR informs the referee on the pitch about the decision.

"There are two focus points. The first focus is on the kick point - the moment the ball is played - and the second is which body part is closest to the goalline, the defender or the attacker. We hope with technology that we can be faster and more accurate."

 

I'm not a fan of the way offside is implemented at the minute where a goal can be disallowed because the player's nose was offside.  I can't see this being used for anything other than "offside by a pixel" style decisions.

 

 

In tight cases, I'd like to see the benefit of the doubt given to the attacking player, but "more accurate decisions" sounds like they're going to use it to get even closer and rule things out by tighter margins than ever.  If the referee can't determine for themselves if it is offside or not, a camera should not be used to zoom right in and tell, it's not how the game is played and it's not how it should be ruled.

 

I would like the offside rule to be strictly on where your feet are placed, and not the body.  If you're leaning forward, but your feet are in line, you shouldn't be called offside.   It's just getting a bit out of hand, and I don't see how this sort of thing is going to swing it the other way.

[Jeff]

Anything has to be better than the current rule. Absolute madness in the Chelsea game yesterday

[Chillidigits]

How about you can't be offside if it involves a part of your body you can't score with.

[Ex member of the SaS]

Absolutely hate when they delay in raising the flag, ball in the net for 5 minutes before it goes up. Having said that in our game and others yesterday the flag went up as soon as the ball went anywhere near the offending player as it should! 

As for var I can see the benefits but still think the officials will use it to benefit certain teams over others.

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

Anything has to be better than the current rule. Absolute madness in the Chelsea game yesterday

Shocking, if they'd scored from that corner tuchel wouldve went mental 

[shlabalaba]

1 hour ago, tian447 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59461288

 

 

I'm not a fan of the way offside is implemented at the minute where a goal can be disallowed because the player's nose was offside.  I can't see this being used for anything other than "offside by a pixel" style decisions.

 

 

In tight cases, I'd like to see the benefit of the doubt given to the attacking player, but "more accurate decisions" sounds like they're going to use it to get even closer and rule things out by tighter margins than ever.  If the referee can't determine for themselves if it is offside or not, a camera should not be used to zoom right in and tell, it's not how the game is played and it's not how it should be ruled.

 

I would like the offside rule to be strictly on where your feet are placed, and not the body.  If you're leaning forward, but your feet are in line, you shouldn't be called offside.   It's just getting a bit out of hand, and I don't see how this sort of thing is going to swing it the other way.

 

yeah i agree with this , if peter crouch was in line with a 6'1  defender he would be offside which is unfair , even though they are in the same starting position

[upgotheheads]

24 minutes ago, Chillidigits said:

How about you can't be offside if it involves a part of your body you can't score with.

isn't that that case now?

[JamboGraham]

33 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

isn't that that case now?

 

Yes.

[Chillidigits]

39 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

isn't that that case now?

Yep - sorry.

[Rogue Daddy]

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Absolutely hate when they delay in raising the flag, ball in the net for 5 minutes before it goes up. Having said that in our game and others yesterday the flag went up as soon as the ball went anywhere near the offending player as it should! 

As for var I can see the benefits but still think the officials will use it to benefit certain teams over others.

Annoying as feck isn't it.... although, I think it's to do with the passage of play playing out to a conclusion ie. if someone scores, and is then flagged offside - if the linesman is wrong, then the goal can stand (because it played out). If he raised his flag immediately (in error) play would stop and no goal scored. Hope this makes sense. If you don't have VAR, it doesn't matter - his decision stands.

[No longer active]

3 hours ago, tian447 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59461288

 

 

I'm not a fan of the way offside is implemented at the minute where a goal can be disallowed because the player's nose was offside.  I can't see this being used for anything other than "offside by a pixel" style decisions.

 

 

In tight cases, I'd like to see the benefit of the doubt given to the attacking player, but "more accurate decisions" sounds like they're going to use it to get even closer and rule things out by tighter margins than ever.  If the referee can't determine for themselves if it is offside or not, a camera should not be used to zoom right in and tell, it's not how the game is played and it's not how it should be ruled.

 

I would like the offside rule to be strictly on where your feet are placed, and not the body.  If you're leaning forward, but your feet are in line, you shouldn't be called offside.   It's just getting a bit out of hand, and I don't see how this sort of thing is going to swing it the other way.

So St Mirren would have lead 1-0 at half-time last Saturday!

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 hour ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Annoying as feck isn't it.... although, I think it's to do with the passage of play playing out to a conclusion ie. if someone scores, and is then flagged offside - if the linesman is wrong, then the goal can stand (because it played out). If he raised his flag immediately (in error) play would stop and no goal scored. Hope this makes sense. If you don't have VAR, it doesn't matter - his decision stands.

TBF I never thought of it like that and it sounds like a good explanation. Thanks!

[tian447]

1 hour ago, George Cowie said:

So St Mirren would have lead 1-0 at half-time last Saturday!

 

Unfortunately, those are the breaks.  They might well have done, but the linesman may have flagged that offside anyway! Was quite hard to tell at normal speed. 

 

I don't like goals getting ruled out for being 2mm offside, and it'll probably go in your favour as much as they go against.

[Wee Mikey]

Could always simply scrap the offside rule and let attacking players poach, and defenders defend. Just imagine the entertainment value of 9 opposition players crowding the six yard box at free kicks? 🙃

[hoof.hearted]

Can see the main losers being the ar5e cheeks tbh. Seems to be they get most long blink decisions from the refs who also can't wait to point at the spot. 

[Chillidigits]

13 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

TBF I never thought of it like that and it sounds like a good explanation. Thanks!

Yes fair enough. Unfortunately I think it's more likely that letting the play continue will cause frustration at best and unnecessary injury to players at worst. And with the arguement being to let things continue to see what the outcome is why are refs very often stopping play immediately for free kicks instead of waiting to see outcomes.

They should always be doing that instead of just sometimes.

[Marvin]

5 hours ago, tian447 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59461288

 

 

I'm not a fan of the way offside is implemented at the minute where a goal can be disallowed because the player's nose was offside.  I can't see this being used for anything other than "offside by a pixel" style decisions.

 

 

In tight cases, I'd like to see the benefit of the doubt given to the attacking player, but "more accurate decisions" sounds like they're going to use it to get even closer and rule things out by tighter margins than ever.  If the referee can't determine for themselves if it is offside or not, a camera should not be used to zoom right in and tell, it's not how the game is played and it's not how it should be ruled.

 

I would like the offside rule to be strictly on where your feet are placed, and not the body.  If you're leaning forward, but your feet are in line, you shouldn't be called offside.   It's just getting a bit out of hand, and I don't see how this sort of thing is going to swing it the other way.

 

If refs aren't allowed the final call, then where does it end?

[Rogue Daddy]

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

TBF I never thought of it like that and it sounds like a good explanation. Thanks!

👍 

[Footballfirst]

6 hours ago, tian447 said:

I would like the offside rule to be strictly on where your feet are placed, and not the body.  If you're leaning forward, but your feet are in line, you shouldn't be called offside.   It's just getting a bit out of hand, and I don't see how this sort of thing is going to swing it the other way.

All that would do is move the reference line. You would get the same tight decisions, e.g. whether or not the toe of one players boot is marginally beyond the tag on the heel of the boot of another player

[tian447]

28 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

All that would do is move the reference line. You would get the same tight decisions, e.g. whether or not the toe of one players boot is marginally beyond the tag on the heel of the boot of another player

 

At least it would be a relatively fair and consistent reference point though.

 

We've seen goals be ruled off for sleeves and armpits being offside which is absolute bullshit.  If a goal is ruled offside because you are standing behind the defender, fair enough, but not because you haven't had a haircut this month and your fringe is blowing offside.  Being offside because you're a bit taller than the defender and you've stretched for a header is nonsense, and yet it happens pretty much every week!