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Violent crime in teenagers


Tazio
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What the hell is going on with this. When I was that age inevitably there was the occasional fight but nothing that got out of hand. 
I’ve just had a news update from the BBC that a 12 year old girl was murdered last night in Liverpool with what are described as “catastrophic injuries” and 4 teenage boys all under 16 arrested by the police. 

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6 minutes ago, Tazio said:

What the hell is going on with this. When I was that age inevitably there was the occasional fight but nothing that got out of hand. 
I’ve just had a news update from the BBC that a 12 year old girl was murdered last night in Liverpool with what are described as “catastrophic injuries” and 4 teenage boys all under 16 arrested by the police. 

Where to start.

1. No appropriate male role models nowadays. This is very important. Alot of them don't know their fathers, and those that do, many have a dad that doesn't give a shit. Growing up my father was my moral compass. Yes, I was a bit scared of him, but I had far more respect for him than fear. That respect came from how my father behaved. He never mistreated mum, never laid a finger on her. Only cowards hit women in his book. Would never drink in the house, apart from the new year, and would never let his children see him drunk.

He laid down the ground rules from the start. I didn't like all the rules, but I knew the consequences if I broke them.

When I was a teenager, his two main rules were. You won't bring the polis to the door, or a girl in trouble, do you understand? I did loud and clear.

2. Complete lack of discipline in both the home at school and society in general. It's all about their rights nowadays, and if a parent disciplines you, phone childline or whatever holiness and claim abuse, when it's nothing of the sort. The police have to treat them with kid gloves, or they get done for abuse.

They go up in front of the children's panel, and all the excuses are trotted out, broken home, no father around. Mum/Dad is a junkie/alcoholic etc etc, but little Johnny has a rap sheet longer than a roll of Andrex.

Don't misunderstand me hear, I'm not advocating beating the shit out of the little darlings, but I'm advocating ground rules from the start, and that there are consequences if these rules are broken. It is not wrong and never has been wrong to punish a child, as well as punishing you educate too.

It's not easy. Being a parent is the toughest job in the world. The truth is, there are many having children, who shouldn't, and aren't fit to be parents, but we can't say this as it's politically incorrect, and we will be infringing their human right to sire children.

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Things you will see on this thread:
"Druggy parents"

"Third generation wasters"

"Lack of positive role models"

"Drill music"

"Human rights"

"Bring back national service"

"Bring back birching"

"Jail is like a holiday camp"

 

The real reasons are probably far more complex.

The hollowing out and de-funding of youth services since 2010 is certainly a factor.

With youth clubs all shut and local authorities lacking funds to run outreach and monitoring programmes for the most vulnerable kids, there is no safety net to stop them falling into the kind of nonsense we see on the streets.

The reduction in policing is also a factor, with no visible deterrent on the streets and no sense of monitoring or oversight.

The lack of convictions in the courts is also a factor, again due to budget cuts in the system with the CPS having to only pick certain cases to go before Magistrates.

Conviction rates are appalling and there is pretty much no point in even calling the cops for low-level crime any more. They won't do shite about it.

 

The education system has also been destroyed. Schools (at least in England) are no longer about creating functioning adult humans.

They're about league tables. A conveyor belt of exam grades with the kids reduced to battery-hen cash generators for the school board.

Exclusions are at staggering levels. Not because the kids are getting more badly behaved, but because they're dragging the league table results down. So off they go.

There is no support in schools. The kids are dehumanised and their human needs ignored.

 

Social media is also a huge factor, with it acting as an amplifier for all the bullying and it encourages kids to egg each other on in a spiral of threats and violence.

Everything is out in public on social media, with nowhere to hide and people not even involved in the initial dispute throwing their weight in.

 

There are also wider social triggers in play; with the general populace and politics moving further and fuhrer to the right, with intolerance, violence and idiocy being seen as virtues and promoted as such in main stream media.

There is no personal responsibility in any level of life at the moment. Anybody can do whatever they want with zero repercussions.

Of course kids are going to pick up on this and run with it.

 

Sending kids to jail won't help either, jail is just a finishing school for bams.

A minor offender sent down for a few months will emerge as a fully fledged arsehole in the current system.

The jail service has also been hollowed out. G4S run most of the jails and they run them for profit.

The battery-hen analogy is even more apt in this case.

Prisoners are shut in for increasingly long hours of the day, jails are extremely overcrowded and understaffed. But G4S shareholders are happy.

Jail should be used to rehabilitate criminals, not distil and intensify their bammery.

 

There's failing at every level in the system, from school to youth services to policing to jails to politics as a whole.

No easy answers to this.

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I live in Manchester and it's not just teenagers three beggars outside Lidl in Longsight attacked Asian guy for no reason on Wednesday.

I was 30 seconds away and could not help the Asian guy as attackers quickly ran off.

As for teenagers six break-ins around my area recently and all look young on CCTV.

No aggravated break ins but car keys stolen from women and two small children.

Police called every time but refuse to set up covert sting as they say three youths with masks at 3am could be walking to

there work and can't be stopped.

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4 minutes ago, Cade said:

Things you will see on this thread:
"Druggy parents"

"Third generation wasters"

"Lack of positive role models"

"Drill music"

"Human rights"

"Bring back national service"

"Bring back birching"

"Jail is like a holiday camp"

 

 


That Wummin Dr Who has a lot to answer for. 😡

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Sawdust Caesar
6 minutes ago, Cade said:

Things you will see on this thread:
"Druggy parents"

"Third generation wasters"

"Lack of positive role models"

"Drill music"

"Human rights"

"Bring back national service"

"Bring back birching"

"Jail is like a holiday camp"

 

The real reasons are probably far more complex.

The hollowing out and de-funding of youth services since 2010 is certainly a factor.

With youth clubs all shut and local authorities lacking funds to run outreach and monitoring programmes for the most vulnerable kids, there is no safety net to stop them falling into the kind of nonsense we see on the streets.

The reduction in policing is also a factor, with no visible deterrent on the streets and no sense of monitoring or oversight.

The lack of convictions in the courts is also a factor, again due to budget cuts in the system with the CPS having to only pick certain cases to go before Magistrates.

Conviction rates are appalling and there is pretty much no point in even calling the cops for low-level crime any more. They won't do shite about it.

 

The education system has also been destroyed. Schools (at least in England) are no longer about creating functioning adult humans.

They're about league tables. A conveyor belt of exam grades with the kids reduced to battery-hen cash generators for the school board.

Exclusions are at staggering levels. Not because the kids are getting more badly behaved, but because they're dragging the league table results down. So off they go.

There is no support in schools. The kids are dehumanised and their human needs ignored.

 

Social media is also a huge factor, with it acting as an amplifier for all the bullying and it encourages kids to egg each other on in a spiral of threats and violence.

Everything is out in public on social media, with nowhere to hide and people not even involved in the initial dispute throwing their weight in.

 

There are also wider social triggers in play; with the general populace and politics moving further and fuhrer to the right, with intolerance, violence and idiocy being seen as virtues and promoted as such in main stream media.

There is no personal responsibility in any level of life at the moment. Anybody can do whatever they want with zero repercussions.

Of course kids are going to pick up on this and run with it.

 

Sending kids to jail won't help either, jail is just a finishing school for bams.

A minor offender sent down for a few months will emerge as a fully fledged arsehole in the current system.

The jail service has also been hollowed out. G4S run most of the jails and they run them for profit.

The battery-hen analogy is even more apt in this case.

Prisoners are shut in for increasingly long hours of the day, jails are extremely overcrowded and understaffed. But G4S shareholders are happy.

Jail should be used to rehabilitate criminals, not distil and intensify their bammery.

 

There's failing at every level in the system, from school to youth services to policing to jails to politics as a whole.

No easy answers to this.

Intentional?

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I P Knightley
44 minutes ago, Cade said:

The real reasons are probably far more complex.
 

Social media is also a huge factor, with it acting as an amplifier for all the bullying and it encourages kids to egg each other on in a spiral of threats and violence.

 

There is no personal responsibility in any level of life at the moment. Anybody can do whatever they want with zero repercussions.

I agree with almost all of your long post, almost anyone with a drum to bang about some section of society will be able to bang it in connection to this tragic story. It's a little bit of everything and those of us who grew up in the '60s and '70s can see a hundred and one things that are not like they used to be.

 

The 'no personal responsibility' one is a biggie for me. I can think of a handful of occasions when I've asked someone to modify their behaviour in some way (e.g. parking on pavements; bullying their kids; mask wearing on public transport) only to get the response, "I'll do what I like". This building of self-entitlement is something that has happened gradually since around the 1980s.

 

The other point I've left quoted is possibly linked. Facebook and Twitter give people voices where they can spout their opinions and easily find others who agree with them; ignoring others who might help them see the errors of their ways. It's easy to dismiss a faceless, anonymous voice as an arsehole if they disagree with you. I will not be at all surprised if the kids involved in the killing of this young girl have made a video recording of the kicking they gave her so that they could share it on whatever app they use.

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I P Knightley
45 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

All out attack on the white male and traditional values, plus everybody thinks they're someone!

 

 

ohhh, and this ...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/25/bond-doctor-who-casting-women-risks-driving-boys-to-crime-mp

That twat of an MP has had a new one ripped out of him for saying this, to the point that he published a letter trying to backtrack and say that his "subtle nuances" had been missed.

 

Perhaps if the country were led by people who we could look up to as role models, rather than corrupt, self-serving, evil arsepieces, we'd be in a slightly better place.

 

(For the record, I have not been using any subtle nuances in my post.)

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1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

Growing up my father was my moral compass

Not all fathers and males in the family are a positive role model. In fact " children live what they learn" .  Some fathers can be bullies and full of toxic masculine rage who tend to treat females as a piece of shit. Their sons watch this and replicate it later. Having no respect for women and seeing them as weak and submissive. The cycle continues. They have children . Its only some fathers who are like this but it can be a significant number to cause issues for society. I do agree that its important for boys in particular to have positive male models whilst growing up but they can be brothers , Uncles or indeed teachers and youth workers. 

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

Complete lack of discipline in both the home at school and society in general.

Thats a myth. Sorry.  Schools have very low levels of indiscipline and this is without violent deterrents such as the belt. Most young people are respectful of others and older people and it is only the few which get media attention which then tar them all the same. 

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1 hour ago, Cade said:

Things you will see on this thread:
"Druggy parents"

"Third generation wasters"

"Lack of positive role models"

"Drill music"

"Human rights"

"Bring back national service"

"Bring back birching"

"Jail is like a holiday camp"

 

The real reasons are probably far more complex.

The hollowing out and de-funding of youth services since 2010 is certainly a factor.

With youth clubs all shut and local authorities lacking funds to run outreach and monitoring programmes for the most vulnerable kids, there is no safety net to stop them falling into the kind of nonsense we see on the streets.

The reduction in policing is also a factor, with no visible deterrent on the streets and no sense of monitoring or oversight.

The lack of convictions in the courts is also a factor, again due to budget cuts in the system with the CPS having to only pick certain cases to go before Magistrates.

Conviction rates are appalling and there is pretty much no point in even calling the cops for low-level crime any more. They won't do shite about it.

 

The education system has also been destroyed. Schools (at least in England) are no longer about creating functioning adult humans.

They're about league tables. A conveyor belt of exam grades with the kids reduced to battery-hen cash generators for the school board.

Exclusions are at staggering levels. Not because the kids are getting more badly behaved, but because they're dragging the league table results down. So off they go.

There is no support in schools. The kids are dehumanised and their human needs ignored.

 

Social media is also a huge factor, with it acting as an amplifier for all the bullying and it encourages kids to egg each other on in a spiral of threats and violence.

Everything is out in public on social media, with nowhere to hide and people not even involved in the initial dispute throwing their weight in.

 

There are also wider social triggers in play; with the general populace and politics moving further and fuhrer to the right, with intolerance, violence and idiocy being seen as virtues and promoted as such in main stream media.

There is no personal responsibility in any level of life at the moment. Anybody can do whatever they want with zero repercussions.

Of course kids are going to pick up on this and run with it.

 

Sending kids to jail won't help either, jail is just a finishing school for bams.

A minor offender sent down for a few months will emerge as a fully fledged arsehole in the current system.

The jail service has also been hollowed out. G4S run most of the jails and they run them for profit.

The battery-hen analogy is even more apt in this case.

Prisoners are shut in for increasingly long hours of the day, jails are extremely overcrowded and understaffed. But G4S shareholders are happy.

Jail should be used to rehabilitate criminals, not distil and intensify their bammery.

 

There's failing at every level in the system, from school to youth services to policing to jails to politics as a whole.

No easy answers to this.

Good posting. There are a myriad of reasons for issues related to young people today. I really feel sorry for them now with social media and the pressures with that. 

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11 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

That twat of an MP has had a new one ripped out of him for saying this, to the point that he published a letter trying to backtrack and say that his "subtle nuances" had been missed.

 

Perhaps if the country were led by people who we could look up to as role models, rather than corrupt, self-serving, evil arsepieces, we'd be in a slightly better place.

 

(For the record, I have not been using any subtle nuances in my post.)

:lol: I can see that!  Unfortunately it's endemic. Your point in your previous post about personal responsibility was what I was referring to as everybody thinks they're someone, albeit in my own very nuanced way.

 

I seem to recall, and this is where it becomes hazy, a similar type incident, quite possibly in the Merseyside area but with older teenagers where a girl was attacked (but by other girls mainly) and eventually very badly burned, although she died a few days later in hospital. Utterly horrific incident, and again iirc that was ealy to mid 90s.  It happens every so often, unfortunately.

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2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Not all fathers and males in the family are a positive role model. In fact " children live what they learn" .  Some fathers can be bullies and full of toxic masculine rage who tend to treat females as a piece of shit. Their sons watch this and replicate it later. Having no respect for women and seeing them as weak and submissive. The cycle continues. They have children . Its only some fathers who are like this but it can be a significant number to cause issues for society. I do agree that its important for boys in particular to have positive male models whilst growing up but they can be brothers , Uncles or indeed teachers and youth workers. 

Thats a myth. Sorry.  Schools have very low levels of indiscipline and this is without violent deterrents such as the belt. Most young people are respectful of others and older people and it is only the few which get media attention which then tar them all the same. 

As one who has daughter who teaches in a secondary school( her third school now), I will disagree with you with regard to children's behaviour at school.

In her own words, teenage girls are starting to behave worse than teenage boys. This is down in Hampshire.

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rudi must stay

There is simply no respect for anyone anymore. Everyone has it tough apparently, so we can all go around being horrible to one another. If you live respectfully you are considered weak, this is what's going on and has been for years 

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10 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

There is simply no respect for anyone anymore. Everyone has it tough apparently, so we can all go around being horrible to one another. If you live respectfully you are considered weak, this is what's going on and has been for years 

 

Sorry and I'm genuinely not pulling you up for fun, but do you genuinely believe that? Is that your experience of everyday life?

 

I must live in some sort of bubble where I kick about saying thanks to bus drivers, standing out of the way of mums with buggies and saying hello to other dog walkers in the park without ever seeing any bampottery. 

 

Horrible story in the OP. 

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rudi must stay
4 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Sorry and I'm genuinely not pulling you up for fun, but do you genuinely believe that? Is that your experience of everyday life?

 

I must live in some sort of bubble where I kick about saying thanks to bus drivers, standing out of the way of mums with buggies and saying hello to other dog walkers in the park without ever seeing any bampottery. 

 

Horrible story in the OP. 

 

That's my experience of life and has been since 2015

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38 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Sorry and I'm genuinely not pulling you up for fun, but do you genuinely believe that? Is that your experience of everyday life?

 

I must live in some sort of bubble where I kick about saying thanks to bus drivers, standing out of the way of mums with buggies and saying hello to other dog walkers in the park without ever seeing any bampottery. 

 

Horrible story in the OP. 

It may not be "everyday" life, but it seems to me that modern technology has  caused a jump in the numbers of ned teenagers intent on creating new types of  neddery.    Yes, there always has been an element like that for many generations - but there's an alarming percentage now who seem capable of serious violence & crime without any remorse or guilt.    Easy access to the seedy/violent/explicit  side of the internet can't have done anything but add to the problem.   You can become a rich career criminal now without owning a gun or even leaving your bedroom.    You can beat up someone in the street  for a laugh   just so you can film it and get "likes" when you post it.     That seems to be the new currency for youngsters nowadays.   

 

It may be a small minority like this, but the damage & fear they cause has become widespread.

 

   

 

 

 

   

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Every generation has its problems, in my own day you learned street smarts, there were some guys you just did not entice. There were districts you did not go, and in the home the fathers word was law. But the mother was the domestic police agent. She accumulated the evidence of misdoings, and only went to the higher court of Faither if they seemed in danger of becoming a habit.

School was a place of discipline, morning prayers, National Anthem and yes sir and no miss as required. Marched in every morning to class. Strap for misbehavior, a girl had though to commit murder to  be strapped.Headmaster was a man of power both in duties, and ability to wield a strap.

On the street respect was shown to police, nuns, ministers/priests, and boys from the Back Street. Never refuse to fight and take your licking if it came to that, never tattle, and obey the discipline of the street.

Commonly on here National Service seen as a cure, an absolute curse to a young man who diligently served an apprenticeship with hard work and moderate pay, who on completion is immediately pulled into the military just when he is ready to marry, and start making some money, and there is nowhere better to learn bad habits than the military if you are so inclined.

Todays society is not geared to discipline, too much electronics providing answers, minimal street participation in games and nonsense, everything by phone no personal contact, and because of consistency those kids who are being assessed today will be the ones giving similar critical assessments tomorrow. i.e "It wasn't like this in my day."

 

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7 hours ago, Tazio said:

What the hell is going on with this. When I was that age inevitably there was the occasional fight but nothing that got out of hand. 
I’ve just had a news update from the BBC that a 12 year old girl was murdered last night in Liverpool with what are described as “catastrophic injuries” and 4 teenage boys all under 16 arrested by the police. 

 

Stabbed to death seemingly.

13, 14 & 15 yr olds carrying knifes in the centre of Liverpool.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-59427833

 

It's time we absolutely clammped down on carrying knives, irrespective of your age.

 

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I P Knightley
7 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Not all fathers and males in the family are a positive role model. In fact " children live what they learn" .  Some fathers can be bullies and full of toxic masculine rage who tend to treat females as a piece of shit. Their sons watch this and replicate it later. Having no respect for women and seeing them as weak and submissive. The cycle continues. They have children . Its only some fathers who are like this but it can be a significant number to cause issues for society. I do agree that its important for boys in particular to have positive male models whilst growing up but they can be brothers , Uncles or indeed teachers and youth workers.

This is all true but 'twas ever thus. It doesn't explain the (perceived) increase in violent crime committed by young people.

 

My perception chimes with that of the OP and stuff that Bob has written. In years gone by, when we lived in black & white, there were rough & tough lads (really not so much lassies) but you'd know who they were in your neighbourhood and if they wanted a fight, it would tend to be with another rough, tough lad. I just would never have thought that a bunch of 13-15 year olds would violently attack a 12 year old girl.

 

I'm not advocating leathering boys who misbehave but there's definitely more kids (in and around my kids' circles - school, sport, neighbourhood) who face no consequence for misbehaviour at an early age and who then grow up thinking they can set the rules. It's made it difficult for me to parent my sons if/when their mates' parents are letting the mates get away with the kind of shite that I'd never have tried on when I was young and which I don't want my boys doing. I've had a few fallings out with other parents over them being feeble - and it's not particularly bad stuff, just an overall lack of control which sees those other kids have less respect for everyone around them.

 

 

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7 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

I agree with almost all of your long post, almost anyone with a drum to bang about some section of society will be able to bang it in connection to this tragic story. It's a little bit of everything and those of us who grew up in the '60s and '70s can see a hundred and one things that are not like they used to be.

 

The 'no personal responsibility' one is a biggie for me. I can think of a handful of occasions when I've asked someone to modify their behaviour in some way (e.g. parking on pavements; bullying their kids; mask wearing on public transport) only to get the response, "I'll do what I like". This building of self-entitlement is something that has happened gradually since around the 1980s.

 

The other point I've left quoted is possibly linked. Facebook and Twitter give people voices where they can spout their opinions and easily find others who agree with them; ignoring others who might help them see the errors of their ways. It's easy to dismiss a faceless, anonymous voice as an arsehole if they disagree with you. I will not be at all surprised if the kids involved in the killing of this young girl have made a video recording of the kicking they gave her so that they could share it on whatever app they use.


Fully agree! 

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My pal's daughter is a teacher in a very good school. She had a parents meeting with a couple and was discussing with them how their daughter, who by all accounts is a nice lassie, can get easily distracted and let her standards slip a bit. Both parents are professional people.

 

The teacher expected a positive outcome, a bit of home reinforcement and a joint approach to getting the best results for their daughter. 

 

The response from the parents? "That's your job." End of discussion. 

 

Some people just shouldn't have kids. And when they do, other people pick up the pieces. 

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It's always been like that, I think the reality of it just wasn't so accessible prior to the internet. I grew up with a lot of people who murdered and others who were murdered. sometimes by one of the first group. I would have to sit and think about it if I were to compile a list of all I knew who were in either of those groups.

I knew a family of 4 boys and 3 girls, 3 of the 4 boys from that single family became murderers.

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23 hours ago, Tazio said:

What the hell is going on with this. When I was that age inevitably there was the occasional fight but nothing that got out of hand. 
I’ve just had a news update from the BBC that a 12 year old girl was murdered last night in Liverpool with what are described as “catastrophic injuries” and 4 teenage boys all under 16 arrested by the police. 

 

Bath has had a problem with this too. Feck knows what's going on? Do we bring back corporal punishment? In my day, I got into a scrap, but nothing like this. Is the ease if accessibility to violent images/videos online having an influence on young people causing this? Something really has to be done but in this day in age when it only takes a little know how to access the dark web I think it will only get worse. 

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No idea about England but crime in Scotland is at historically low levels. What we do have now is 24 hour news from around the world and bad news sells so we see the worst of humanity on our screens. 

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The problem with crime statistics is that the way they are counted keeps getting changed.

Successive governments manipulate the data to show whatever they want it to show.

 

And you can never be certain how many crimes are actually reported by the public, either.

 

Crimes reported does not translate to successful prosecutions, to it's hard to call jail a deterrent.

 

 

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9 hours ago, XB52 said:

No idea about England but crime in Scotland is at historically low levels. What we do have now is 24 hour news from around the world and bad news sells so we see the worst of humanity on our screens. 

 

Agreed. People forget how violent the 70s and 80s were.

For example, there was around 16000 at Tynecastle today. That would have meant serious bother back then. 

 

There was also serious territorialism amongst young people back then. Mass paggers all the time. Princes Street Gardens and St. James's Centre were both hairy places to be on a Saturday. 

 

Pub fights were very common, as were street fights. 

 

Nowadays is much more peaceful. 

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14 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

Agreed. People forget how violent the 70s and 80s were.

For example, there was around 16000 at Tynecastle today. That would have meant serious bother back then. 

 

There was also serious territorialism amongst young people back then. Mass paggers all the time. Princes Street Gardens and St. James's Centre were both hairy places to be on a Saturday. 

 

Pub fights were very common, as were street fights. 

 

Nowadays is much more peaceful. 

Exactly but we see news about someone being murdered and suddenly it's the end of the world. The gang scene back in the 70s was much much worse than today. Again I am only talking about in Scotland as I've not lived in England for over 30 years 

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Captain Sausage

Genuine question as I’m only in my mid thirties, but is society not a much better place today than it was 30/50/80 years ago?

 

Even when I grew up in the 90s, it was absolute normal to talk about going to the p*ki shop or get a ch*nky for tea. Nowadays, I’m absolutely shocked that my parents thought it was okay to use that language. 
 

The internet inevitably amplifies the extremes, but I’m pretty sure we live in a more peaceful, more tolerant society today than at any real period before. Even in 2006, we had 25000 hearts fans belting out that the hibees are gay - imagine the backlash if that happened today. 
 

Would be interested to see what some older JKBers think, but my impression is that a lot of people are looking back with pretty severely rose tinted spectacles. 

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24 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Genuine question as I’m only in my mid thirties, but is society not a much better place today than it was 30/50/80 years ago?

 

Even when I grew up in the 90s, it was absolute normal to talk about going to the p*ki shop or get a ch*nky for tea. Nowadays, I’m absolutely shocked that my parents thought it was okay to use that language. 
 

The internet inevitably amplifies the extremes, but I’m pretty sure we live in a more peaceful, more tolerant society today than at any real period before. Even in 2006, we had 25000 hearts fans belting out that the hibees are gay - imagine the backlash if that happened today. 
 

Would be interested to see what some older JKBers think, but my impression is that a lot of people are looking back with pretty severely rose tinted spectacles. 

 

:spoton:

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4 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

Genuine question as I’m only in my mid thirties, but is society not a much better place today than it was 30/50/80 years ago?

 

Even when I grew up in the 90s, it was absolute normal to talk about going to the p*ki shop or get a ch*nky for tea. Nowadays, I’m absolutely shocked that my parents thought it was okay to use that language. 
 

The internet inevitably amplifies the extremes, but I’m pretty sure we live in a more peaceful, more tolerant society today than at any real period before. Even in 2006, we had 25000 hearts fans belting out that the hibees are gay - imagine the backlash if that happened today. 
 

Would be interested to see what some older JKBers think, but my impression is that a lot of people are looking back with pretty severely rose tinted spectacles. 

 

In my time our parental and school behavior was highly monitored. Our social life with our own contemporaries was well monitored by born leaders. As far as the societal elements we were downright racists, we had names for every race and had a  racial superiority complex that in todays climate seems unbelievable. 

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30 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Parenting. The lack of. 

Times have definitely changed. I’m shocked at some of the language and attitude I hear used in conversations between teenagers and their parents. I’m 55 and have never used the F word in front of my mother and never would. Now I see stroppy teenagers telling their parents to eff off as if it’s a normal thing. 

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9 hours ago, Tazio said:

Times have definitely changed. I’m shocked at some of the language and attitude I hear used in conversations between teenagers and their parents. I’m 55 and have never used the F word in front of my mother and never would. Now I see stroppy teenagers telling their parents to eff off as if it’s a normal thing. 

Not throwing enough money at them not to swear.

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9 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I'm not sure if there has actually even an increase in this level of violence.

 

I don't think there has been, I think it may be that such incidents simply get to a lot more people now. Back in the day most people got news from a newspaper and/or TV news and I knew a lot of people who stated they never even watched the news at all. Picture Homer Simpson saying, news? "Boring"

But now every many woman granny and near toddler is packing a news device all day long every single day. Some can't be separated from it even when sleeping. And it's constantly feeding them with everything under the sun it knows they want to hear about.

Most of them are seeing what the algorithms want them to see which is derived from what they themselves like to see. If you want to believe there are aliens out there sticking probes up peoples asses then it will convince you they are. Same with pretty much everything.

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1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I don't think there has been, I think it may be that such incidents simply get to a lot more people now. Back in the day most people got news from a newspaper and/or TV news and I knew a lot of people who stated they never even watched the news at all. Picture Homer Simpson saying, news? "Boring"

But now every many woman granny and near toddler is packing a news device all day long every single day. Some can't be separated from it even when sleeping. And it's constantly feeding them with everything under the sun it knows they want to hear about.

Most of them are seeing what the algorithms want them to see which is derived from what they themselves like to see. If you want to believe there are aliens out there sticking probes up peoples asses then it will convince you they are. Same with pretty much everything.

Yep. Plus you obviously not hear more international news, even if it is just seeing a headline on Twitter, they'll stick with you subconsciously.

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The Mighty Thor
10 hours ago, Tazio said:

Times have definitely changed. I’m shocked at some of the language and attitude I hear used in conversations between teenagers and their parents. I’m 55 and have never used the F word in front of my mother and never would. Now I see stroppy teenagers telling their parents to eff off as if it’s a normal thing. 

This is very true. There's an absolute lack of consequence for a lot of kids nowadays. They come and go as they please and do as they please. We've got friends with teenage kids and they never get told to do anything. Everything is a negotiation and if they turn round and say no, nothing happens.

 

which leads right into John's point;

 

49 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Not throwing enough money at them not to swear.

If they ever do get disciplined they get sent to their room where they have SKY/PS4/Mobile/Netflix/Amazon etc etc.

 

The biggest problem is that a lot of parents sit of an evening with their heads buried in their mobile phones havering shite on the likes of Facebook.

 

The path of least resistance would appear to be let them do what they want and then you can then do what you want. 

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On 27/11/2021 at 19:34, Savage Vince said:

 

Agreed. People forget how violent the 70s and 80s were.

For example, there was around 16000 at Tynecastle today. That would have meant serious bother back then. 

 

There was also serious territorialism amongst young people back then. Mass paggers all the time. Princes Street Gardens and St. James's Centre were both hairy places to be on a Saturday. 

 

Pub fights were very common, as were street fights. 

 

Nowadays is much more peaceful. 

Yip.

70's were mental. Especially at the football. Pub fights were very common .

Every generation will have it's nutters  but I'd say some of the psychos back then were on another level of bampottery !

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For me the biggest difference between the 70's & 80's to now, is knives.

You got into an argument in the 70's & 80's you'd often get a sore face, now you'll get stabbed.

You tackle teenagers out in the street making too much noise, in the 70's or 80's you'd come out the next day to find your car had been keyed or the tires let down, nowadays they'll stab you.  There was a case just the other week of exactly that happening to a man, they killed him, I think they were 15 or 16, and all he'd done was to ask them to keep the noise down, an argument ensued and they killed him.

 

Just today there was a 14 yr old up in court charged with the murder of that 12 yr old lassie from Liverpool, 14 years old FFS and carrying a knife and allegedly kills another child with it.  The worst of it is, there is nothing unsual about tennagers carrying knives nowadays, it's common place.

 

It just seems to me that nowadays the ages of those dying from violent crime is getting younger and younger, as is those who are carrying it out.

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3 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

According to this site, the crime rate in Scotland has fallen by about half in the last 20 years.

 

It doesn't reference teenage crime.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/916472/crime-rate-of-scotland-uk/

 

This statement is from a different website:

 

". We estimate that 43% of all crimes and offences in Scotland is attributable to young people under the age of 21. As anticipated, young people are responsible for higher proportions of offences such as fire-raising (86%), vandalism (75%), theft of motor vehicles (75%), theft by opening lockfast places (65%), handling offensive weapons (59%) and housebreaking (55%). Young people seem less likely to commit crimes of indecency (41%), other crimes of dishonesty such as fraud and reset (30%) and motor vehicle offences (26%). 5. Our estimates suggest that bulk of youth crime is attributable to those aged 18-21 (49%). The under-15s commit over one-third of youth crime, with the remainder attributable to those aged 16-17. 87% of youth crime is committed by males."

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FinnBarr Saunders
5 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

According to this site, the crime rate in Scotland has fallen by about half in the last 20 years.

 

It doesn't reference teenage crime.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/916472/crime-rate-of-scotland-uk/

 

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say its at least doubled.

Garden shed gets robbed (maybe 2 pushbikes and various tools), lucky if police turn up to investigate. If you have insurance they'll send you a crime number so you can claim.

Yes, they are undermanned but most folks have given in with them unless its really serious, whats the point when they'll not arrive?

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