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TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL?


chrisyboy7
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Smith's right boot
10 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Has it though? with James Anderson at the helm Ann is not short of money 😉

 

If Ann and James want to cement there legacy forever at Hearts what better way to give us a stadium, that will benefit us in years to come, will attract better players and will close the gap on those feckers, Gorgie Rules!!! 

 

 

All money for the next 5 years or so should be going towards the team. 

 

If we get 3rd 5/6 times in a row then we can look to close the gap then. 

We've not even regularly the 3rd best team yet. 

 

Save the FoH money for such future projects. 

 

The gap is chasm even if we reached a level we haven’t even  reached yet. 

 

 

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been here before
50 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Just a quick question for the smart arses on here, as the mods seem to think it's alright to watch someone get slaughtered, has the op said something out of place? 

 

 

Anyway remind me how much Hearts had at the Scottish Cup final against Gretna?

 

How much fans did Hearts have at murrayfield? Semi against celtic and league games we played? 

 

And how many against celtic in the cup final? 

 

 

 

What a bizarre argument.

 

How many St Johnstone fans were at their cup finals last year?

 

I suppose based in that thinking McDiarmid should be upgraded to 25k.

 

About half of Dumfries rocked up to watch QoS in the final v Rangers. You seem to be arguing Palmerston should be a 20k plus stadium.

 

:rofl:

Edited by been here before
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https://www.londonhearts.com/charts/averagel.htm

 

Not sure of the underlying demand tbh, appreciate we are coming off the back of a pandemic and currently on a roll but history would suggest it's a waste of money.

Some thoughts on how to 'expand' match day income; safe standing, HeartsTV + PPV...

Think there is quite a decent sized diaspora that can't physically be there but are happy to pay to watch from whatever corner of the globe (or UK) they are in.

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kingantti1874

Not impossible at all from an engineering perspective .  Would be expensive.. something we should be planning for but not a current priority 

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We need to prove we can consistently fill 3.5 stands before throwing money at the stadium again. There's a reason the old firm get the full roseburn.

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17 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

 

image.jpeg.148c203dcca831adfbb9a66461335c70.jpeg

The only issue that I see there is it's not so much what can be done to the existing stadium, rather more rip it down and build it the other way round...

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2 minutes ago, trotter said:

The only issue that I see there is it's not so much what can be done to the existing stadium, rather more rip it down and build it the other way round...

I imagine you would also have to buy every adjacent property on Gorgie Road given they would never see the Sun again out the back. 

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4 minutes ago, trotter said:

The only issue that I see there is it's not so much what can be done to the existing stadium, rather more rip it down and build it the other way round...

Could be done in stages over a few years. Knock down the wheatfield 1st turn the pitch around. Simples. 

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7 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

 

image.jpeg.148c203dcca831adfbb9a66461335c70.jpeg

Ah so we turn our pitch around 90 degrees and we knock down or decrease the capacity of our new main stand and replace it with a new shiny 5k capacity one and then do the same to the Wheatfeild. We then knock down or expand the Gorgie and Roseburn stands to give us two new shiny stands with a combined capacity of 22k between them.

 

How many millions do we think this would cost the club?..... history would  also tell us that we would never fill a 32k stadium for run of the mill league games against so called smaller clubs.

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Budge and Co. made Tynecastle as absolutely large as it can be, in terms of total occupancy, so long as the large ethanol tanks at our end of NBDC are still there. Unless NBDC can be convinced to move those tanks further away from the stadium or if they relocate for some other reason, we cannot expand.

 

However, neither of those are impossible to imagine. The problem isn't just that the distillery is there, but that there are large tanks of refined ethanol located at the end of their property closest to Tynecastle. I believe years and years ago NBDC told Hearts that they could move the tanks but that they would want Hearts to help pay for it and the cost would be £1.5m, a number which I assume has gone up with inflation since then.

 

Should we decide to do it, the obvious (to me) next step in Tynecastle redevelopment is a major expansion or rebuild of the Wheatfield. I don't know if it would be better to cantilever a new tier over top of the existing seats or build a whole new stand, but it's the one space on the Tynecastle property that has plenty of room for expansion, and would give any new upper seats a grand view of the castle over the the top of the main. The total cost would probably be in the £15-20m, although if an expansion option that left the existing stand largely in tact existed, it might be lower, but I doubt it.

 

However, the club just got done paying off the debt for the redeveloped main stand, I don't think we should be eager to rush into debt so soon.

 

Maybe in 5 years.

 

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been here before
14 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Not impossible at all from an engineering perspective .  Would be expensive.. something we should be planning for but not a current priority 

 

27 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

 

image.jpeg.148c203dcca831adfbb9a66461335c70.jpeg

 

Ahhh yes the JKB Experts on Everything, this time football stadium engineering, have arrived.

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adambraejambo

 

2 minutes ago, Boyces beard said:

Ah so we turn our pitch around 90 degrees and we knock down or decrease the capacity of our new main stand and replace it with a new shiny 5k capacity one and then do the same to the Wheatfeild. We then knock down or expand the Gorgie and Roseburn stands to give us two new shiny stands with a combined capacity of 22k between them.

 

How many millions do we think this would cost the club?..... history would  also tell us that we would never fill a 32k stadium for run of the mill league games against so called smaller clubs.

Can't wait till we have a massive game v Rangers and we have a Rangers fan come on pretending to be one of us asking if anyone has a spare ticket. "Sure mate you can have mine in row 66 of the main stand" then once he away we can mock him as we know it only goes up to 65

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15 minutes ago, maroon66 said:

Looking at making the 2nd floor of the main stand into a 12 room hotel,change of use etc.

 

Makes sense but only 12 rooms?

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2 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

 

image.jpeg.148c203dcca831adfbb9a66461335c70.jpeg

 

If it was gifted to us, it would be a massive benefit.  Even if only for derbies and OF games.  But in reality how much would such a thing cost?  How long would it take to build?  

 

Even if it can be done slowly (like one stand at a time) you've gotta wonder whether the cost would justify it.  Upgrading the Gorgie or School end would probably cost 10m at least (?) and would increase capacity by about 1500.  No idea what the value of each seat is on average per year, but I'd imagine we'd take a while to see any gains even if we were guaranteed to sell the seats.

 

At least the proposed Wheatfield would add 4k so if it's really a possibility then it is something that could happen I suppose.  

 

I'd rather just leave the school end and have the capacity at 30k anyway.  We'd be doing well to sell more than 27k home seats and would probably give the whole stand to the gruesome twosome and Hibs.  No point spending 10m to have an extra 1500 of them.

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We are a growing club. Even when we where dross and getting relegated, attendance's where surprisingly high. We finish third this season and continue to build a good squad. Stadium could be come to small in few years time again. Edinburgh is a fast growing city and we can easily tap into that growth. 

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Tynie is plenty big enough. 

 

For the big games that folk can't get tickets for - tough titties - should have gone to more games for the LP's. 

 

Really not worth expanding so a few Johnny-Come-Latelys can make a game or two a season and the rest of the time we have thousands of vacant seats. Example: Easter Road. 

 

Tynie packed with regular fans. Magic. 

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I'm sure I read somewhere we're evolving into larger human beings, so the capacity is going to go down as we widen the seats.

 

Sad times ahead ☹️

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Fire_At_The_Disco

I reckon if we filled the corners between wheatfield and gorgie, wheatfield and roseburn it would be job done. I think these 2 can be engineered quite easily, anything connected to the steeper main is much harder. 

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Fire_At_The_Disco
3 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

I'm sure I read somewhere we're evolving into larger human beings, so the capacity is going to go down as we widen the seats.

 

Sad times ahead ☹️

I gave up smoking in March….. pretty sure I’m encroaching on the boys seat next to me, if I keep going like this I’m changing my name to Jabba The Hut to scare him off. 

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Getting missed again.

 

HOT FLAMING ALCOHOL FIRES. BAIRNS GETTING BURNS FLEEING FLAMMABLE GASSES.

 

That's why Tynecastle is the size it is and won't grow until NBDC moves its tanks.

 

Fun to speculate but that's the limit right now.

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55 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Wrong you asked him what do you think the capacity should be and would well fill it, asking this question you know right away,you're agenda is to put him on the back foot, as he can't possibly answer any of them questions, it also comes across as really insulting because as it stands currently Hibs have more capacity than us, now if there is any team in Edinburgh close to selling out it's not Hibs is it. 

 

The OP has raised a valid point, do you really think with 20k we can sustain Robbies and savages plans of challenging rangers and celtic or could we give Robbie and the club an even better chance of closing the gap by getting more people to tynecastle. 

 

Can we keep the likes of Woodburn at Hearts with an up to date stadium. 

 

And really turn hearts into a force in Scottish football? 

 

Because whether you like it or not we're based in the capital, we have supporters from England all over the UK that come to watch us, America if I've missed anyone then i apologise. 

 

Hearts are all over the world. 

 

And i think we can attract more fans to our great club, and i think evidence proves that we have done exactly that in the past. 

 

Complete drivel.

 

I made a valid argument and he went off on one.  I was perfectly respectful until the insults got fired at me.

 

We have no hope of challenging Sevco or Celtic any time soon when their budgets are multiple times ours driven by a century or more of bigotry.  Hearts can only progress if they raise income from other means but it still requires both the uglies to have absolute 'mares, which is improbable.

 

Woodburn is going back to Liverpool regardless and we won't be spending the kind of cash required to get him from an EPL side.

 

I've been watching Hearts from the 80s and our support even before Taylor fluctuated massively depending on how consistent the team is.  The fact is if we get too successful someone bigger will pinch our best players (and manager), perhaps even on a Bosman if we spend large sums on them.

 

While we are stuck in Scottish football, the best we can hope for is incremental improvements and start to get consistency from year to year.  We are miles away from that if you look at the depth of our squad.

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1 minute ago, Fire_At_The_Disco said:

I gave up smoking in March….. pretty sure I’m encroaching on the boys seat next to me, if I keep going like this I’m changing my name to Jabba The Hut to scare him off. 

 

We're not even going to appreciate safe standing at this rate, too ****ing fat to stand.

 

☹️

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18 minutes ago, Boyces beard said:

Ah so we turn our pitch around 90 degrees and we knock down or decrease the capacity of our new main stand and replace it with a new shiny 5k capacity one and then do the same to the Wheatfeild. We then knock down or expand the Gorgie and Roseburn stands to give us two new shiny stands with a combined capacity of 22k between them.

 

How many millions do we think this would cost the club?..... history would  also tell us that we would never fill a 32k stadium for run of the mill league games against so called smaller clubs.

 

I should've looked closer at the plans!  Surely it would cost at least 80m?

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Smith's right boot

FoH money should be used for such projects. 

Once we have about £15m in the bank from it we can look at the stadium or buy hibs. 

 

It should go to the fans to what we do. 

 

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Smith's right boot
6 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

Getting missed again.

 

HOT FLAMING ALCOHOL FIRES. BAIRNS GETTING BURNS FLEEING FLAMMABLE GASSES.

 

That's why Tynecastle is the size it is and won't grow until NBDC moves its tanks.

 

Fun to speculate but that's the limit right now.

 

Why does it matter if its 20k or 30k that get burned. 

 

Surley if the risk was that high we wouldn't be allowed to have a capacity of 20k. 

 

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If I was to do anything I’d want us to create hospitality rooms like the Security room in each corner - now that’s not a “fill the corners” call but a “utilise the corners” call but from the back end.  
A small members club, bottled beer/drinks/buffet.

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1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Why does it matter if its 20k or 30k that get burned. 

 

Surley if the risk was that high we wouldn't be allowed to have a capacity of 20k. 

 

It's about evacuation speed. There are various models for how this is estimated but the health and safety engineers do the models then put a maximum capacity. To change that, you'd need to do even more drastic changes to modes of egress and all all that.

 

I think some of the problems can be sorted by building a large firewall out of concrete but that's only for the fire hazard, not the fume hazard.

 

The relevant documents are stashed somewhere here on JKB. I read through the entire 100+ pages years ago to make sure I understood all the problems and I've forgotten some of the details but the upshot is that there really is no way around the hard capacity limit so long as the tanks are sitting there.

 

But, as I said, tanks can be moved. That costs money, though.

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1 minute ago, Led Tasso said:

Getting missed again.

 

HOT FLAMING ALCOHOL FIRES. BAIRNS GETTING BURNS FLEEING FLAMMABLE GASSES.

 

That's why Tynecastle is the size it is and won't grow until NBDC moves its tanks.

 

Fun to speculate but that's the limit right now.

 

Yet the council are allowing the old school directly behind the roseburn end to be turned into student flats. 

 

90 minutes a fortnight = bad

24/7 for students = good

 

Someones going to need to explain that one for me. 😐 

 

My 2 cents, we're up shit creek on the stadium size. No hope for further expansion and its unfortunate we were forced into rushing through the development because of that ****ing nursery. I think had we been able to take our time the pros and cons of remaining at tynie could have been made clear to the fans and a more informed decision could have been made with a potential alternative site and all that would entail clear to all. Instead we were forced into use it or lose it and now don't have the capacity to try and grow the club by any meaningful degree.

 

Whats fine now, may not be fine in 5/10 years time. Edinburgh is supposed to grow 

 

- In the ten years to 2019 Edinburgh's population grew by 13.3% from 463,000 to 524,000 - our stadium does nothing to take advantage of the growing city. By 2030 Edinburgh will be significantly bigger and we're still locked in to a 20k seater stadium just like Hibs and just like Aberdeen meaning we'll never put any meaningful distance between ourselves and those two. 

 

I want to see Hearts be able to retain talent and have the resources to take players from Motherwell etc. but right now? Luton are a better destination and likely will remain so whilst the stadium capacity is hamstrung by the issues around Tynecastle sadly. 

 

We're in a better position than 10 years ago, but its hard not to look at it and wonder what if? Hope thats not too negative, just really frustrating to see how our potential is curtailed by the stadium. 

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Smith's right boot
Just now, Led Tasso said:

It's about evacuation speed. There are various models for how this is estimated but the health and safety engineers do the models then put a maximum capacity. To change that, you'd need to do even more drastic changes to modes of egress and all all that.

 

I think some of the problems can be sorted by building a large firewall out of concrete but that's only for the fire hazard, not the fume hazard.

 

The relevant documents are stashed somewhere here on JKB. I read through the entire 100+ pages years ago to make sure I understood all the problems and I've forgotten some of the details but the upshot is that there really is no way around the hard capacity limit so long as the tanks are sitting there.

 

But, as I said, tanks can be moved. That costs money, though.

 

 

Ah cool. 

Cheers for that. 

 

Makes a bit more sense now. 

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Can we not merge this with the last thread about it that bongo managed to go on about the fag packet maths for pages n pages n pages. 
 

We are not going to fill a 30 or 40 thousand seat stadium in our lifetimes. We need to look at other avenues to progress. Celtic and Rangers have waiting lists for STs it makes sense for them. Even if we had done it in Vlads time it would now still not have more fans attending than already do. Thats before we look ay the logistics. 
 

 

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Smith's right boot
1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

Yet the council are allowing the old school directly behind the roseburn end to be turned into student flats. 

 

90 minutes a fortnight = bad

24/7 for students = good

 

Someones going to need to explain that one for me. 😐 

 

My 2 cents, we're up shit creek on the stadium size. No hope for further expansion and its unfortunate we were forced into rushing through the development because of that ****ing nursery. I think had we been able to take our time the pros and cons of remaining at tynie could have been made clear to the fans and a more informed decision could have been made with a potential alternative site and all that would entail clear to all. Instead we were forced into use it or lose it and now don't have the capacity to try and grow the club by any meaningful degree.

 

Whats fine now, may not be fine in 5/10 years time. Edinburgh is supposed to grow 

 

- In the ten years to 2019 Edinburgh's population grew by 13.3% from 463,000 to 524,000 - our stadium does nothing to take advantage of the growing city. By 2030 Edinburgh will be significantly bigger and we're still locked in to a 20k seater stadium just like Hibs and just like Aberdeen meaning we'll never put any meaningful distance between ourselves and those two. 

 

I want to see Hearts be able to retain talent and have the resources to take players from Motherwell etc. but right now? Luton are a better destination and likely will remain so whilst the stadium capacity is hamstrung by the issues around Tynecastle sadly. 

 

We're in a better position than 10 years ago, but its hard not to look at it and wonder what if? Hope thats not too negative, just really frustrating to see how our potential is curtailed by the stadium. 

 

 

All fair, but for us to be attracting  25-30k   every week we'd need to have a sustained period of success. 

 

If we can do what Aberdeen done in terms of league finishes the last decade then this may be a problem, a good problem as opposed to admin or relegation type problems! 

 

We're a bit of that tho , but yes in 10 years or so it could be a problem that restricts us. 

 

We need the footballing side to be doing well tho for a sustained period, that is our goal now. 

 

 

 

 

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We should never move from tynecastle park imo, it's part of the clubs identity and history, I think filling in the corners would take us up to maybe at a guess a 22/23k capacity stadium? I think tbh that would be enough for our support for the short to mid term future,  who knows if we were to win a league or two in the next 10-15 years then that might add another 10k on top of our support, it's all ifs and buts though.

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8 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

FoH money should be used for such projects. 

Once we have about £15m in the bank from it we can look at the stadium or buy hibs. 

 

It should go to the fans to what we do. 

 

 

My understanding is the FOH money is being used for the squad/club. Which isn't what I thought the plan for it was. I thought it would be used for the purposes you outline (obv not buying hibs :D) but like infrastructure projects - making our long term future better. Not short termism. 

 

The frustrating thing about that for me, is that we need to move from Riccarton, Budge I believe has already intimated concern about the annual costs there (£400k pa?) but if we're spending the £1.5m a year then we're never going to have the money in the bank to actually make this move on our own. It will fall to benefactors which may or may not be an option when time finally does come. Additionally, if a benefactor does fund it entirely through generosity what might we end up with? A cow shed like Hibs? If we want a professional training ground, that's easily £15m. 

 

I think a vote was taken on this at one of the FOH meetings so it is what it is unfortunately. 

 

If I'm wrong please let me know. 

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We sell around 13500 season tickets.  If that figure was closer to 90% of capacity, then we would have an argument for needing to expand. 

 

But we don't, and it would seriously detract from the atmosphere having thousands and thousands of empty seats.  For proof, have a look at the Lochend Flairmeisters playing in a half empty stadium every week. 

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1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

You asked the question i answered it? Maybe the club can do more to attract fans to games, it's obvious we can take more with the points i made further up. 

You didnt make any points further up? The only person thats made points is Chrissy? 🤔

 

Your sole contribution to there is to say “hes right” “ignore the hate” and “waiting list under romanov”

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1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

Yet the council are allowing the old school directly behind the roseburn end to be turned into student flats. 

 

90 minutes a fortnight = bad

24/7 for students = good

 

Someones going to need to explain that one for me. 😐 

 

My 2 cents, we're up shit creek on the stadium size. No hope for further expansion and its unfortunate we were forced into rushing through the development because of that ****ing nursery. I think had we been able to take our time the pros and cons of remaining at tynie could have been made clear to the fans and a more informed decision could have been made with a potential alternative site and all that would entail clear to all. Instead we were forced into use it or lose it and now don't have the capacity to try and grow the club by any meaningful degree.

 

Whats fine now, may not be fine in 5/10 years time. Edinburgh is supposed to grow 

 

- In the ten years to 2019 Edinburgh's population grew by 13.3% from 463,000 to 524,000 - our stadium does nothing to take advantage of the growing city. By 2030 Edinburgh will be significantly bigger and we're still locked in to a 20k seater stadium just like Hibs and just like Aberdeen meaning we'll never put any meaningful distance between ourselves and those two. 

 

I want to see Hearts be able to retain talent and have the resources to take players from Motherwell etc. but right now? Luton are a better destination and likely will remain so whilst the stadium capacity is hamstrung by the issues around Tynecastle sadly. 

 

We're in a better position than 10 years ago, but its hard not to look at it and wonder what if? Hope thats not too negative, just really frustrating to see how our potential is curtailed by the stadium. 

 

From the perspective of emergency managers, it's not about aggregate risk to the population, it's about the number of people they have to get out of the area in a specified amount of time. A few hundred extra people in flats is less of a worry than 20k football fans having to exit quickly through a small number of exits.

 

I fully agree that we should have an eye on growing capacity, both because Edinburgh is growing and also because a good Tynecastle makes for a good stop for some tourists who are already coming to Edinburgh, like Americans. (Ask me how I know. ;))

 

To my eye these are our options.

 

Short term, pay NBDC to make the ethanol problem go away and build a new Wheatfield, maybe up the capacity to 26k or so. After we do that, there's a few possibilities specifically regarding the corners and the roof that we could explore to maybe get close to 30k. As I say, that means taking on debt again and I think we should hold off a bit and build up reserves.

 

Anything else is likely extremely difficult to impossible in the short term.

 

Long to very long term, it's basically this:

- Move to another site

- Move to Murrayfield

- When current Murrayfield needs replacement, rebuild Tynecastle completey as a 50k stadium and invite Scottish rugby to groundshare.

 

The long term is too far off to plan for right now though. We have a beautiful stadium with a fantastic new main stand, let's just enjoy it for a bit.

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26 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Tynie is plenty big enough. 

 

For the big games that folk can't get tickets for - tough titties - should have gone to more games for the LP's. 

 

Really not worth expanding so a few Johnny-Come-Latelys can make a game or two a season and the rest of the time we have thousands of vacant seats. Example: Easter Road. 

 

Tynie packed with regular fans. Magic. 

Spot on.  When we start winning trophies we can start looking at the stadium.  In the meantime, spend our money on the squad.  Better contracts and bonuses for our best players.  Buy players we can afford.

 

Take on the OF.

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1 hour ago, WageThief said:

 

Can you link to this / the posts if possible?

Theres a whole thread on it. Literally this one word for word from a few months ago 

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1 hour ago, alex young hero said:

I seem to remember we have restrictions on the Tynecastle footprint due the school and the nearby industrial units a health and safety issue perhaps.

I think thats correct…

 

 

Cracking name thats a name close to my heart Btw 👌🏻👌🏻
 

 

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6 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

All fair, but for us to be attracting  25-30k   every week we'd need to have a sustained period of success. 

 

If we can do what Aberdeen done in terms of league finishes the last decade then this may be a problem, a good problem as opposed to admin or relegation type problems! 

 

We're a bit of that tho , but yes in 10 years or so it could be a problem that restricts us. 

 

We need the footballing side to be doing well tho for a sustained period, that is our goal now.

 

 

From a financial perspective, in order to make a seat profitable on 10 year financing, you need to sell it about 6-8 times per season, not every game.

 

From an atmosphere perspective, we have to decide how many empty seats we're willing to tolerate on a regular basis though.

 

In the Murrayfield year while the Main was under construction, we averaged around 25k fans and maxed out north of 35k for a Rangers match, IIRC. If we can make the loans and the planning permission work, I think the support is there.

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53 minutes ago, maroon66 said:

Looking at making the 2nd floor of the main stand into a 12 room hotel,change of use etc.

Would be a good plan I thought of that a few months ago would make a good whack of money throughout the year and matching hotel prices in Edinburgh charge a fortune over Xmas and new year . Blackpool have a hotel in there stadium.

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2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

:cornette:

 

Keep taking those tablets.  Maybe if you have a spare £40m+ you could donate it to FOH to get it built?

 

Keep that cave clean Frank, don't miss the corners mind 😉 

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