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Why were we so bad in the sixties?


Francis Albert

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52 minutes ago, Deevers said:

There’s no doubt that McLean built the team that Walker benefitted from in the 50s.  Walker still managed to put together pretty credible sides in the early 60s. The slump really started in the early seventies. 


He did put out some decent teams in the early 69’s but the slump started the season after we blew the league against Killie. The team was dire in the mid to late 60’s with only a very few special moments - not that it got any better in the 70’s!

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45 minutes ago, The White Cockade said:

The decline actually started in the 50’s when we were the top team 

absolutely useless Directors who sold on our top men to make ends meet Dave Mackay, Alex Young all the way through to Willie Wallace and Arthur Mann We must have been paying players peanuts as we couldn’t even hold on to guys like Alan Gordon

And the way they treated King Willie and Jim Cruickshank at the end of their careers 

That’s what caused the lost years of the 60’s 70’s and early 80’s

imo things only started to improve when the old guard were culled and Archie Martin came in


The team was hardly in decline in the 50’s as they were regularly winning leagues and cups.

I do take your point that the Board were a useless bunch of money grabbers who sowed the seeds of our decline from the mid 60’s.

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2 minutes ago, Thomaso said:


He did put out some decent teams in the early 69’s but the slump started the season after we blew the league against Killie. The team was dire in the mid to late 60’s with only a very few special moments - not that it got any better in the 70’s!

Yep, some awful signings to replace decent players we let go. Bobby Kemp, Jim Murphy, Eddie O’Donnell spring to mind. Things got progressively worse under Harvey and then the real slide in the seventies. 

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8 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Yep, some awful signings to replace decent players we let go. Bobby Kemp, Jim Murphy, Eddie O’Donnell spring to mind. Things got progressively worse under Harvey and then the real slide in the seventies. 


Agreed. Tough times to start going to games as a young Hearts fan in the mid 60’s, and listening to my Dad talking about the glory years, the Terrible Trio, Dave Mackay, Alex Young, that glorious day in 1956!

 

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John Findlay

I know one thing that pisses me off greatly.

That's our title winning season of 1957/58 it's not recognised Scotland/UK wide as it should be.

34 league games played won 29 drew 4 and lost 1(1 nil away defeat to Clyde).

In the days of two points for a win which gave us a total of 62 pts in today's 3pts of a win we would have had 91pts for 34 games.

Rangers were runners up on 49pts, Celtic third on 46pts.

In the 3pts for a win Rangers would have ended up on 71pts and Celtic on 65pts.

Here is the astounding fact.

34 league games played 132 goals scored, 29 goals against. That is a goal difference of plus 103, that's right take that in. Plus 103.

I believe I am correct in saying that no other team in the top league of England or Scotland have won their league with a plus goal difference in three figures?

Yet when our media like to reminisce about great teams, that Hearts team seldom if ever get a mention. I find it a total disgrace. 

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davemclaren
23 minutes ago, Thomaso said:


Agreed. Tough times to start going to games as a young Hearts fan in the mid 60’s, and listening to my Dad talking about the glory years, the Terrible Trio, Dave Mackay, Alex Young, that glorious day in 1956!

 

My dad loved to tell me how great Hearts had been, especially after having a couple of drinks. It seemed cruel at the time 😄

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32 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I know one thing that pisses me off greatly.

That's our title winning season of 1957/58 it's not recognised Scotland/UK wide as it should be.

34 league games played won 29 drew 4 and lost 1(1 nil away defeat to Clyde).

In the days of two points for a win which gave us a total of 62 pts in today's 3pts of a win we would have had 91pts for 34 games.

Rangers were runners up on 49pts, Celtic third on 46pts.

In the 3pts for a win Rangers would have ended up on 71pts and Celtic on 65pts.

Here is the astounding fact.

34 league games played 132 goals scored, 29 goals against. That is a goal difference of plus 103, that's right take that in. Plus 103.

I believe I am correct in saying that no other team in the top league of England or Scotland have won their league with a plus goal difference in three figures?

Yet when our media like to reminisce about great teams, that Hearts team seldom if ever get a mention. I find it a total disgrace. 

Always been a source of annoyance. 

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Jambo-Fox

We stumbled out of the 60s into the ‘70s … best thing about the ‘70s and probably one of the few things that created excitement was the Texaco Cup!

I just loved these games, home and away! 
NB Cup Winners Cup after ‘76 was also great Locomotive Leipzig more so then Hamburg

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davemclaren
26 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

We stumbled out of the 60s into the ‘70s … best thing about the ‘70s and probably one of the few things that created excitement was the Texaco Cup!

I just loved these games, home and away! 
NB Cup Winners Cup after ‘76 was also great Locomotive Leipzig more so then Hamburg

1976 cup final was a decent day out, until the match started. 

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Jambo-Fox
2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

1976 cup final was a decent day out, until the match started. 

It was horrible the worst of my cup finals (all of them since ‘68 except ‘20 Covid ban) ….. until arriving at Hampden it was shaping up well (as you say a decent day out) but …..

 

…… ticketless hordes at the pay gate for the (unticketed) East End terrace mixed with Hearts fans was carnage (many Hearts fans not getting in at all). I bought a ticket from Hearts ticket allocation for the North Enclosure but as it was mixed with Rangers fans the experience was not pleasant! 
Shuggie Shaw goal apart a horrible day …

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1 hour ago, Jambo-Fox said:

It was horrible the worst of my cup finals (all of them since ‘68 except ‘20 Covid ban) ….. until arriving at Hampden it was shaping up well (as you say a decent day out) but …..

 

…… ticketless hordes at the pay gate for the (unticketed) East End terrace mixed with Hearts fans was carnage (many Hearts fans not getting in at all). I bought a ticket from Hearts ticket allocation for the North Enclosure but as it was mixed with Rangers fans the experience was not pleasant! 
Shuggie Shaw goal apart a horrible day …


Pissed rain all day, a goal down before 3pm, bottles raining down on Hearts fans……horrible day!

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davemclaren
23 minutes ago, Thomaso said:


Pissed rain all day, a goal down before 3pm, bottles raining down on Hearts fans……horrible day!

Yip, the bottles were certainly flying. 

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Lone Striker
11 hours ago, Deevers said:

Yep, some awful signings to replace decent players we let go. Bobby Kemp, Jim Murphy, Eddie O’Donnell spring to mind. Things got progressively worse under Harvey and then the real slide in the seventies. 

Yep, poor recruitment. Sound familiar ?      Am I right in thinking that we had Peter Cormack on our groundstaff but failed to see his potential ?     

 

John Greig, Sandy Jardine and Jimmy Millar were  Hearts-minded local players we failed to sign - although there may be other  reasons why they ended up at Ibrox (money  perhaps ?). Anyone know if we actually tried to sign any of  these 3 ?

 

 

 

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The White Cockade
11 hours ago, Thomaso said:


The team was hardly in decline in the 50’s as they were regularly winning leagues and cups.

I do take your point that the Board were a useless bunch of money grabbers who sowed the seeds of our decline from the mid 60’s.

I mean the roots of the decline started then caused by the useless Directors who only seemed interested in selling their top assets to bring in a few measly bucks

Dave Mackay was lost to the club far too early as were others That’s when it started going wrong 

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10 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Yep, poor recruitment. Sound familiar ?      Am I right in thinking that we had Peter Cormack on our groundstaff but failed to see his potential ?     

 

John Greig, Sandy Jardine and Jimmy Millar were  Hearts-minded local players we failed to sign - although there may be other  reasons why they ended up at Ibrox (money  perhaps ?). Anyone know if we actually tried to sign any of  these 3 ?

 

 

 

I’m sure we were first in line to sign Eric Stevenson as well. We lost out on quite a few players that should have been with us during that period. Crap board with no ambition and awful managers. Penny pinching and a complete lack of professionalism became the norm during the seventies.

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Lone Striker
1 minute ago, Deevers said:

I’m sure we were first in line to sign Eric Stevenson as well. We lost out on quite a few players that should have been with us during that period. Crap board with no ambition and awful managers. Penny pinching and a complete lack of professionalism became the norm during the seventies.

I think Stevenson was a hibby and jumped at the chance to move across to them before we tried  to sign him from our groundstaff.    Maybe someone can enlighten us - who identified signing targets back then ?    The manager ?     The board ?     A trusted scout ?       The name Davie Dalgleish rings a bell ......

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FinnBarr Saunders
On 12/10/2021 at 10:30, bobskeldon said:

The worst days were having to go to places like Bayview to play East Fife on New Years Day🙈

 

Bayview on NYs day was a nightmare. Old Firm KOf early doors and all the twats were back to brick the Hearts busses.

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bobskeldon
7 hours ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

Bayview on NYs day was a nightmare. Old Firm KOf early doors and all the twats were back to brick the Hearts busses.

Buses straight from Ace Of Hearts…Happy Days FinnBarr!

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12 hours ago, The White Cockade said:

I mean the roots of the decline started then caused by the useless Directors who only seemed interested in selling their top assets to bring in a few measly bucks

Dave Mackay was lost to the club far too early as were others That’s when it started going wrong 


All Scottish clubs lost their big stars down south - even the OF 🤷‍♂️

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N Lincs Jambo
13 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Yep, poor recruitment. Sound familiar ?      Am I right in thinking that we had Peter Cormack on our groundstaff but failed to see his potential ?     

 

John Greig, Sandy Jardine and Jimmy Millar were  Hearts-minded local players we failed to sign - although there may be other  reasons why they ended up at Ibrox (money  perhaps ?). Anyone know if we actually tried to sign any of  these 3 ?

 

 

 

 

The story I heard back then from people who were around at the time was that John Greig was desperate to play for Hearts and was devastated we never came in from him. Similar in a way to Kenny Dalglish. Story was Celtic didn't approach him as it was assumed he was going to Ibrox. After some protracted time and he was still unsigned Celtic made their move for him. Just wish Hearts had signed Greig. At least we got 5 seasons of Sandy J in the 80s. Class act.

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The White Cockade
2 hours ago, Thomaso said:


All Scottish clubs lost their big stars down south - even the OF 🤷‍♂️

We were keen to move our best players on to make a few bob Who else would have wanted Dave Mackay to move in if he could have stayed a year or two longer?

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1 hour ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

The story I heard back then from people who were around at the time was that John Greig was desperate to play for Hearts and was devastated we never came in from him. Similar in a way to Kenny Dalglish. Story was Celtic didn't approach him as it was assumed he was going to Ibrox. After some protracted time and he was still unsigned Celtic made their move for him. Just wish Hearts had signed Greig. At least we got 5 seasons of Sandy J in the 80s. Class act.


The story I heard was that Hearts thought Greig was too small…

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N Lincs Jambo
22 minutes ago, Thomaso said:


The story I heard was that Hearts thought Greig was too small…

 

Quite possibly Thomaso. Mind you it didn't stop us signing Cruikie and he wasn't particularly tall.

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