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Dementia in football


mscjambo

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58060644

 

 

There's obviously alot in the press in recent times about dementia in football. The Jeff Astle case brought by his daughter and now I read that Joe Kinnear is has been suffering from dementia since 2015. The above study and report suggests that the effects of heading the ball could be linked to dementia in later life. 

 

Having read such articles do we think down the line football will change or will there be some kind of waver that players will sign. 

 

Just seems to be more coming out on a daily basis.

 

Without knowing any real specifics myself, I wonder is it safer now to head the ball given they are not old old leather balls like back in the day. Heading is obviously a fundamental part of the game, will there ever be a point that maybe Heading changes in terms of how it's viewed in football? Just curious 

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Hearts1975
18 minutes ago, mscjambo said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58060644

 

 

There's obviously alot in the press in recent times about dementia in football. The Jeff Astle case brought by his daughter and now I read that Joe Kinnear is has been suffering from dementia since 2015. The above study and report suggests that the effects of heading the ball could be linked to dementia in later life. 

 

Having read such articles do we think down the line football will change or will there be some kind of waver that players will sign. 

 

Just seems to be more coming out on a daily basis.

 

Without knowing any real specifics myself, I wonder is it safer now to head the ball given they are not old old leather balls like back in the day. Heading is obviously a fundamental part of the game, will there ever be a point that maybe Heading changes in terms of how it's viewed in football? Just curious 

I’m no expert either but you would think with the pace that medical science is advancing it will get to a point that a decision will be forced 

 

How and what they would do, and at that particular point, and if we are not there already is anyone’s guess. 
 

Like you say, it’s a fundamental part of the game but dementia is a horrible horrible illness, that we wish for no human being 

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Jambo na hÉireann

Even with the lighter balls nowadays, it's still not safe. You can feel it for yourself if you head a ball during 5 a side that's come in from a cross...it's not exactly a comfortable feeling is it? 

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I think it's interesting that no one seems to be shouting for a ban on football the way they did about boxing years ago.  The amateur side of boxing went through a phase of compulsory wearing of headgards, but that has now been scrapped because research showed that some boxers were willing to take more blows because they were wearing them but mainly because the head guard didn't stop what was actually causing the problem i.e. the brain hitting off the inside of skull because of the motion of the head when hit. 

A size 5 ball  weighs between 400-450 grams or just under half a kilo and some of the crosses that are fired in for strikers to attack or defenders to defend come in at up to 60mph or more. A half kilo ball travelling at 60mph has to cause similar damage caused by the brain hitting off the inside of the skull. 

Boxing has been allowed to carry on and I don't see there ever being any ban on heading the ball in football. It will just be seen as an accepted risk of taking part.

 

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A_A wehatethehibs
6 minutes ago, Firefox said:

I think it's interesting that no one seems to be shouting for a ban on football the way they did about boxing years ago.  The amateur side of boxing went through a phase of compulsory wearing of headgards, but that has now been scrapped because research showed that some boxers were willing to take more blows because they were wearing them but mainly because the head guard didn't stop what was actually causing the problem i.e. the brain hitting off the inside of skull because of the motion of the head when hit. 

A size 5 ball  weighs between 400-450 grams or just under half a kilo and some of the crosses that are fired in for strikers to attack or defenders to defend come in at up to 60mph or more. A half kilo ball travelling at 60mph has to cause similar damage caused by the brain hitting off the inside of the skull. 

Boxing has been allowed to carry on and I don't see there ever being any ban on heading the ball in football. It will just be seen as an accepted risk of taking part.

 


I think there will be a ban on it to be honest. But allow punches instead. So any player is allowed to punch the ball in the air like a keeper (rather than head it). But you can’t catch it or throw it. Maradona was ahead of his time. I’m an ideas man 💡

 

if it hits your head that’s head ball, no exceptions 

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been here before
1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:


I think there will be a ban on it to be honest. But allow punches instead. So any player is allowed to punch the ball in the air like a keeper (rather than head it). But you can’t catch it or throw it. Maradona was ahead of his time. I’m an ideas man 💡

 

if it hits your head that’s head ball, no exceptions 

 

Awww you should have stopped after the first 2 sentences.

 

That was a great idea until you clarified you meant it was the ball getting punched.

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A_A wehatethehibs
1 minute ago, been here before said:

 

Awww you should have stopped after the first 2 sentences.

 

That was a great idea until you clarified you meant it was the ball getting punched.


To be honest that would happen anyway, “it was accidental ref!” and we’d have VAR deciding whether he was going for the ball or man with that left hook. That’s entertainment right there 

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Have there been any studies that would compare former players with the general population regarding dementia cases? 

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41 minutes ago, Canscot said:

Have there been any studies that would compare former players with the general population regarding dementia cases? 

I'm not sure if there have been any specific studies but I'd imagine at some point there will have to be some conclusive research pertaining to the modern player 

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Smith's right boot

Nae blooters and ball not above waist height.

 

If you hit 7 shots over or wide then you get to line up and sting the opponents.

 

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SomethingAboutObua
2 hours ago, mscjambo said:

 

Without knowing any real specifics myself, I wonder is it safer now to head the ball given they are not old old leather balls like back in the day. Heading is obviously a fundamental part of the game, will there ever be a point that maybe Heading changes in terms of how it's viewed in football? Just curious 

I thought I saw somewhere that for the professional game it didnt really matter because players nowadays are able to hit the ball so much harder for crosses that there's still a big enough effect on the brain. I Could be talking rubbish though and have misread something 

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1 hour ago, mscjambo said:

I'm not sure if there have been any specific studies but I'd imagine at some point there will have to be some conclusive research pertaining to the modern player 

I know in the U.S. that the NFL is paying out millions ( possibly hundreds of millions) to former players who have been diagnosed with CTE (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy) from too many hits to the head. A few former Hockey players over here have been diagnosed with it as well. Not sure how similar the diseases are but many with CTE are fairly young and some of them become severley depressed and end up committing suicide because of it. 

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Fort Vallance
3 hours ago, Firefox said:

I think it's interesting that no one seems to be shouting for a ban on football the way they did about boxing years ago.  The amateur side of boxing went through a phase of compulsory wearing of headgards, but that has now been scrapped because research showed that some boxers were willing to take more blows because they were wearing them but mainly because the head guard didn't stop what was actually causing the problem i.e. the brain hitting off the inside of skull because of the motion of the head when hit. 

A size 5 ball  weighs between 400-450 grams or just under half a kilo and some of the crosses that are fired in for strikers to attack or defenders to defend come in at up to 60mph or more. A half kilo ball travelling at 60mph has to cause similar damage caused by the brain hitting off the inside of the skull. 

Boxing has been allowed to carry on and I don't see there ever being any ban on heading the ball in football. It will just be seen as an accepted risk of taking part.

 

The other problem with the boxing headgear was that it slightly impaired vision from the sides. Consequently fighters were slower in evading shots they might otherwise have avoided.

Not sure if players wearing mandatory head protection in the same way as shin pads would be any use bearing in mind your above point.

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1 hour ago, Canscot said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/nfl-concussion-lawsuit-payouts-reveal-how-racial-bias-in-science-continues-145987
Massive, massive payouts to former NFL players. Could something like this bring Scottish football to it’s knees should former players pursue a collective action against the league?  

 

 

I think it would be bigger and could change the game globally. 

 

 

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Re the research, yes, footballer studies so far show increased likelihood of developing the disease. Defenders and strikers unsurprisingly highest risk amongst them. Again unsurprisingly goalies not so!
my guess is restrictions re kids heading and for adults when training. 
got to be careful don’t discourage sport among population though as when it comes to dementia, keeping fit is known (again through empirical evidence) to be a relevant factor in prevention. Also staying socially connected is relevant and that’s an important by-product of sport in the community. 
difficult balance but important topic to research going forward 👍 

hard to conclusively prove direct causation but important to learn more 

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Jambo in Bathgate

This is a difficult one. There is no doubt that some ex professional footballers have been affected. However football now is International and it would take changes to rules at that level. 

Edited by Jambo in Bathgate
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12 minutes ago, Jambo in Bathgate said:

This is a difficult one. There is no doubt that some ex professional footballers have been affected. However football now is International and it would take changes to rules at that level. 

 

The rules are made by England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland and FIFA strangely enough. FIFA do get 50% of the vote which means they need to agree but it also means that the 4 nations can scupper any proposed rule change as 75% is needed for it to pass.

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44 minutes ago, Jambo in Bathgate said:

This is a difficult one. There is no doubt that some ex professional footballers have been affected. However football now is International and it would take changes to rules at that level. 

Absolutely 💯 

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Smith's right boot
2 hours ago, Jambo in Bathgate said:

This is a difficult one. There is no doubt that some ex professional footballers have been affected. However football now is International and it would take changes to rules at that level. 

 

 

Yip, begs the question what different cultures and beliefs will use as Head gear in the future? 

 

Quite a Few options Tbh, unsure which type would give the best competitive advantage. 

 

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