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SPFL clubs invest in independent advice on strategic review


Carl Fredrickson

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Wonder if this is the start of a new civil war in Scottish football. The five biggest clubs (excluding the OF) are funding it, rather than the SPFL or SFA…

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AlimOzturk

Any criticism aimed toward Doncaster and co will probably see any advice thrown into the nearest dumpster. Surprised they allowed this to go ahead as it could highlight their incompetence. 
 

Rangers and Celtic not on board doesn’t surprise me. They don’t want the rest of us having access to decent funds as it threatens their duopoly. Only have to look at the EPL to show that well run teams with access to money (Leicester, Everton, West Ham) can threaten the status co. 

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John Findlay

So it begins. The first steps are being taken. I'm not sure Deloitte are the correct people to engage, as they have to many connections to the gruesome twosome for my liking. 

It will be interesting to see if the inhabitants of Ibrox and Parkhead answer any the questions they are asked.

Still let's see what they come up with in six months time.

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RustyRightPeg

Deloitte wouldn’t have been appointed if they weren’t the right people. Gordon and Budge in particular are too smart and wouldn’t let it happen if they weren’t the right people. 
 

Hopefully the start of an upturn for our game.

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Footballfirst

No indication that there will be any consultation with the fans to see what they might want out of any strategic reforms.

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2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

So it begins. The first steps are being taken. I'm not sure Deloitte are the correct people to engage, as they have to many connections to the gruesome twosome for my liking. 

It will be interesting to see if the inhabitants of Ibrox and Parkhead answer any the questions they are asked.

Still let's see what they come up with in six months time.

I imagine it will be London based Deloitte people rather than those in their Scottish offices. 

 

Deloitte’s Sports Business Group I assume are the team that helps put together the annual football finances publication. 

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Significant that the old firm are not involved, they don't want anyone getting a sniff of what would be a fair piece of the pie.

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John Findlay
Just now, dtgj said:

I imagine it will be London based Deloitte people rather than those in their Scottish offices. 

 

Deloitte’s Sports Business Group I assume are the team that helps put together the annual football finances publication. 

I don't think their location matters. The gruesome twosome's tentacles spread far and wide in these islands.

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Yet another strategic review, which is simply not needed. Scottish football is dominated by two unashamedly sectarian clubs, both of which owe their position to entirely to their relative attraction to the many religious bigots in Scottish society. Far better to spend research on why so many morons in Scotland who profess a particular faith, never go near a church.

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John Findlay

I also wouldn't be trusting Nelms at Dundee, not to be letting his friends at Parkhead know things before anyone else. Afterall both clubs have one man working for them.

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9 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

No indication that there will be any consultation with the fans to see what they might want out of any strategic reforms.

Unless fans are deemed to be a "stakeholders". In the case of HMFC a lot are.

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Smith's right boot

The problem along with the 2 bigots is the diddie clubs. 

 

For example-St Johnstone, double cup winners won't want any change as they want to give 3 stands to the OF every season. 

The also won't want to upset them. 

 

Add in the utter shite who make votes based on things like bus fares then it's a lost cause. 

 

The OF will protect themselves. 

 

The diddie clubs will follow them through a misguided sense of affiliation to one or the other or because they want their coin and have zero ambition beyond surviving. 

 

 

 

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Smith's right boot
16 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

No indication that there will be any consultation with the fans to see what they might want out of any strategic reforms.

 

 

The sfa had a fan survey maybe 2 years ago, ignored everything, it wasn't even discussed. 

Most fans, Iirc caround 70% wanted a bigger league. 

Not one club cared. 

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Under the floodlight
8 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Yet another strategic review, which is simply not needed. Scottish football is dominated by two unashamedly sectarian clubs, both of which owe their position to entirely to their relative attraction to the many religious bigots in Scottish society. Far better to spend research on why so many morons in Scotland who profess a particular faith, never go near a church.

Because they are morons, money saved.

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Saint Jambo

From our point of view, seems a sensible group of clubs to commission it. If the SPFL had commissioned it themselves we would have dismissed it. If the Old Firm had been in the group we would have dismissed it as just going to protect their interest. The bigger non-old firm clubs but with the agreement of the SPFL/ other clubs seems sensible.

 

But the problem is in the line "the SPFL is one the most exciting leagues in Europe". Surely the review should start from a place of honesty. Every season for over 25+ years has started with us knowing that one of two teams will win the league. To claim that makes the SPFL one of the most exciting leagues in Europe is total denial.

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Footballfirst
3 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Unless fans are deemed to be a "stakeholders". In the case of HMFC a lot are.

This is one of those situations where FOH should be consulting with its membership.  This is not about the day to day running of the club, but the strategic direction that Scottish Football  is likely to take over the next 10 years or more.

 

As majority shareholder, FOH should be influencing the direction of travel and not leaving it solely to the HMFC Board.

 

However, I fear the the FOH Board will choose the hands off governance approach and not interfere with AB's intentions for the club, despite the obvious implications for the fans.

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RustyRightPeg
Just now, Sooperstar said:

Being driven by Ron Gordon. 


His proposal IMO is a good one. 

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I’d be wary in the extreme. Dundee ffs 🤣🤣 couldnae even email properly.  Celtic and Rangers will chew it up and spit it out. 

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Interesting reading the talking points. It looks like this isn't designed to be structural reform at all, but a narrow look at increasing revenue sources to increase total distributions.

 

What first comes to mind is how Doncaster has repeatedly cozied up to Sky for potentially less money, and how the approach to streaming services could be much better. I could imagine naming rights might be in there too (seeing a bit of daylight given how Rangers are upset about the cinch deal).

 

All told this might be a way to very slowly and very carefully dig a tunnel under Doncaster by showing how he's left money on the table repeatedly to cozy up to his favorite suits. If so, then godspeed to it.

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Jonkel Hoon

Stopped reading at "holistic".

 

Usually Indicates bollocks undertaken by overpaid people who tell you what you already know.

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AlimOzturk

Why didn’t we just have the review after Rangers released their dossier and asked for a review at the time? Couldn’t the clubs have banded together and demanded it?

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Even after reading other jambos comments I still have no idea what to think of that. Totally flummoxed 

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Henry McLeish I think it was already tried and failed. Anything which upsets the cartel won’t happen. 

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11 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:


His proposal IMO is a good one. 

Anything that emanates from Fester Road should be treated with contempt as that lot treated us.

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And hey since being part owner of a club gives an American like Rob Gordon a platform to pontificate I guess I can too, since my name's on the sponsor's kit. :lol:

 

If Scottish football wants to make up lost ground, it's not going to be able to do it with just some brand promotion. It needs to be aggressive and structural.

 

I don't know enough to sort out the legalities but could bring Northern Ireland's setup as a parallel pyramid under the top league with a chance (via playoff, perhaps) of promotion into a joint top flight. TV networks care about market size first and foremost and adding NI both increases the footprint for any TV deal and throws a lifeline to clubs there.

 

And if that works, f--- it, shoot the moon and try to get a joint TV deal that brings in every club in NE England in the same way, then sell your brand as having the best collection of derbies in the world, putting Tyne and Wear alongside the OF and the Edinburgh and Dundee derbies.

 

Yes this is bonkers but from the outside looking in Scottish football is tremendously undervalued, particularly outside the OF. The fans, football, venues, and drama are consistently better than the drudgery of the English Championship but no one knows it. Faffing around with the naming rights and arguing with the BBC isn't going to get anywhere.

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132goals1958

Until the monopolistic, ridiculous 11 1 voting structure is binned we are as well whistling in the wind.

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JamboGraham

Looks like the lesson has been learned in terms of how to get votes and support in Scottish football. Talk money!

 

If Deloitte do manage to identify a way of increasing the £27m to anything like the £50m quoted then the "rising tide" will all vote along ready to feed at the trough.

 

Even the Old Firm would struggle against a 40 to 2 vote where the prize is everyone just about doubles their money.

 

Get that bit right and the majority of clubs won't even care what else is in the proposal.

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Rogue Daddy

That reads like an ‘applicants wanted’ job description ad for the position of Chief Exec for the SPFL!

 

Seriously though, this seems like the first step to something else… we know there has been something afoot for a few weeks now. The most telling detail, for me, is no uglies representative. Here’s hoping it actually leads somewhere!

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Byyy The Light

Please please please let this make the dramatic changes that are needed in the game.


Top league of 16. Next tier of 12. All clubs full time, no artificial pitches.

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Rogue Daddy
8 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

Looks like the lesson has been learned in terms of how to get votes and support in Scottish football. Talk money!

 

If Deloitte do manage to identify a way of increasing the £27m to anything like the £50m quoted then the "rising tide" will all vote along ready to feed at the trough.

 

Even the Old Firm would struggle against a 40 to 2 vote where the prize is everyone just about doubles their money.

 

Get that bit right and the majority of clubs won't even care what else is in the proposal.

This is the part that all the other diddy teams will listen to. If distribution of ‘larger’ funds are on the table - less than 4 uglies visits a season, all of a sudden, won’t hurt as much. 

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Auldbenches
16 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

And hey since being part owner of a club gives an American like Rob Gordon a platform to pontificate I guess I can too, since my name's on the sponsor's kit. :lol:

 

If Scottish football wants to make up lost ground, it's not going to be able to do it with just some brand promotion. It needs to be aggressive and structural.

 

I don't know enough to sort out the legalities but could bring Northern Ireland's setup as a parallel pyramid under the top league with a chance (via playoff, perhaps) of promotion into a joint top flight. TV networks care about market size first and foremost and adding NI both increases the footprint for any TV deal and throws a lifeline to clubs there.

 

And if that works, f--- it, shoot the moon and try to get a joint TV deal that brings in every club in NE England in the same way, then sell your brand as having the best collection of derbies in the world, putting Tyne and Wear alongside the OF and the Edinburgh and Dundee derbies.

 

Yes this is bonkers but from the outside looking in Scottish football is tremendously undervalued, particularly outside the OF. The fans, football, venues, and drama are consistently better than the drudgery of the English Championship but no one knows it. Faffing around with the naming rights and arguing with the BBC isn't going to get anywhere.

Bring northern Irish teams into it with the problems we have with the old firm?  

That would just cause more trouble because of those two. 

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Auldbenches
4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Do Celtic have strong connections to Deloitte?

Not sure about that but I wouldn't trust dundee not to leak stuff to them so Celtic can prepare their counter argument.  That's probably why they are wanting involved.  

Remember that mcpake is their manager...

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4 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Not sure about that but I wouldn't trust dundee not to leak stuff to them so Celtic can prepare their counter argument.  That's probably why they are wanting involved.  

Remember that mcpake is their manager...

I wouldn’t trust any of them. I suppose you have to try and redress the balance of power somehow but co-operating with a bunch of snakes and fantasists is going to be a rocky road. Not big enough to achieve much on our own so into the nest of vipers we go I guess

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Rogue Daddy
10 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Do Celtic have strong connections to Deloitte?

Wasn’t it a shellick Deloitte person that helped the SPFL investigate themselves after the leagues were stopped early?… after Rangers offered to pay for an independent investigation?

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Auldbenches
Just now, GinRummy said:

I wouldn’t trust any of them. I suppose you have to try and redress the balance of power somehow but co-operating with a bunch of snakes and fantasists is going to be a rocky road. Not big enough to achieve much on our own so into the nest of vipers we go I guess

It needs to be done but as another poster said, it looks more like trying to increase revenue rather than change the set up. 

That is a start though.

If they come up with something that every club in Scotland wants and tbe cheeks say no, then there should be a breakaway.  I'd be happier with that.

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Berra than you
48 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

From our point of view, seems a sensible group of clubs to commission it. If the SPFL had commissioned it themselves we would have dismissed it. If the Old Firm had been in the group we would have dismissed it as just going to protect their interest. The bigger non-old firm clubs but with the agreement of the SPFL/ other clubs seems sensible.

 

But the problem is in the line "the SPFL is one the most exciting leagues in Europe". Surely the review should start from a place of honesty. Every season for over 25+ years has started with us knowing that one of two teams will win the league. To claim that makes the SPFL one of the most exciting leagues in Europe is total denial.

Whilst I agree with your general point, this is largely true across Europe with the exception of England.

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The Treasurer

Anything that tries to drag Scottish football forward has to be seen as a good thing, but I would have thought that the SPFL, the people who are well paid to run Scottish football, should be doing this as part of their job description 

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1 minute ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Wasn’t it a shellick Deloitte person that helped the SPFL investigate themselves after the leagues were stopped early?… after Rangers offered to pay for an independent investigation?

It was. Well remembered. Not that it really matters Deloitte are a huge multi-national. 

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Rogue Daddy
33 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Why didn’t we just have the review after Rangers released their dossier and asked for a review at the time? Couldn’t the clubs have banded together and demanded it?

You’re forgetting about Liewells rousing speech backing dungcaster. 
That offer from Rangers possibly came too early. May have been a different story if they had waited until it came out that dungcaster had lied about SKY, BBC and BT monies that had to be returned due to not fulfilling fixtures. 

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julienbrellier

Any hearts fan entertaining even a shred of support towards this needs to have a word, have you forgotten we tried reforming the league but all the other clubs shafted us? why would we do anything, anything to help the likes of dundee and hibs. Couldn't care less if it's against the old firm, they'll do what they want anyway, apart from Inverness and a few select others nobody wanted to vote in their interests last time, why would we?

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jamboinglasgow
1 hour ago, AlimOzturk said:

Any criticism aimed toward Doncaster and co will probably see any advice thrown into the nearest dumpster. Surprised they allowed this to go ahead as it could highlight their incompetence. 
 

Rangers and Celtic not on board doesn’t surprise me. They don’t want the rest of us having access to decent funds as it threatens their duopoly. Only have to look at the EPL to show that well run teams with access to money (Leicester, Everton, West Ham) can threaten the status co. 

 

I dont think its as much Rangers as they need all the funds they can get and the feud with the SPFL over Cinch is in part because they are unhappy with such a poor sponsorship (though I do think the director of Rangers having a used car company is a bigger part then they make out.) For Celtic as you say it suits them to keep the medium sized clubs from not getting that much money. I have always felt Celtic could have thrown behind efforts for a much bigger tv deal and if they had we would probably have got it. They get their money from huge attendences and Europe, something that is threatened if other clubs are doing well.

 

As for this, I do think its a good move. Reviews are always taken with a pinch of salt as it should be viewed at how interested the people who have initiated it actually in changing things instead of appearing to change things. In this I think the 5 clubs are serious. These are the clubs who lose out the most in regards to limits on revenue that the SPFL brings relative to potential. Also doesn't surprise me that 4 of the 5 clubs have US owners. They want to get the most money for their clubs and do get that Ron is very determined on this. Obviously the problem is when it gets to the vote stage thanks to the terrible nature of voting structure.

 

The biggest thing (which from reading it does seem to be looking at) is how does the SPFL market and sell itself. It feels very amateurish and needs a complete revamp. Even start of by renaming the leagues so we are not looking like we are competing with England.

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Just now, julienbrellier said:

Any hearts fan entertaining even a shred of support towards this needs to have a word, have you forgotten we tried reforming the league but all the other clubs shafted us? why would we do anything, anything to help the likes of dundee and hibs. Couldn't care less if it's against the old firm, they'll do what they want anyway, apart from Inverness and a few select others nobody wanted to vote in their interests last time, why would we?

 

Thankfully the people at the club aren't taking this view.

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