Pyramid Leagues Superthread

[davemclaren]

15 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Aye, like Edinburgh City (really??)

Bonnyrigg Rose. 😎

[Stu_HMFC]

29 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Aye, like Edinburgh City (really??)

They have more ambition than the teams I mentioned don't they ? 

[Tommy Brown]

3 hours ago, Stu_HMFC said:

They have more ambition than the teams I mentioned don't they ? 

You can have the ambition in the world.

Edinburgh City have exceeded their expectations. They will never garner a support in Edinburgh, a pointless club in the SPFL. 

Dave mentions Bonnyrigg, doing great and may make it too. But again their support is limited to their town? Most are already Hearts first and only deep down.

 

Brechin took a leathering on here, probably deserved. But they were ambitious, in 2nd teir with Michael O'Neill in charge.

I often give Cowdenbeath stick, they were also 2nd tier under Nicholl.

What happened, not sure. Its a tough game football and easy to get into rut.

 

My opinion, I have no desire for Brora, Edinburgh City types in the SPFL.

[Baldwigforjack]

4 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Aye, like Edinburgh City (really??)

Nothing wrong with City and their hardcore away support of 12, which I witnessed first hand when I went up to Forthbank recently.

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

You can have the ambition in the world.

Edinburgh City have exceeded their expectations. They will never garner a support in Edinburgh, a pointless club in the SPFL. 

Dave mentions Bonnyrigg, doing great and may make it too. But again their support is limited to their town? Most are already Hearts first and only deep down.

 

Brechin took a leathering on here, probably deserved. But they were ambitious, in 2nd teir with Michael O'Neill in charge.

I often give Cowdenbeath stick, they were also 2nd tier under Nicholl.

What happened, not sure. Its a tough game football and easy to get into rut.

 

My opinion, I have no desire for Brora, Edinburgh City types in the SPFL.

A lot of Hearst’s/Hibs fans watch Bonnyrigg but there are a fair amount that just support Bonnyrigg. The town has grown a lot on the last 30 years ( now over 20k ) and they will need to tap into that population if they want to increase crowds.
 

If they do manage to get into the SPFL entry prices will go up considerably which might put a few of their current supporters off. 
 

 

 

[Chuck Berry]

4 hours ago, davemclaren said:

A lot of Hearst’s/Hibs fans watch Bonnyrigg but there are a fair amount that just support Bonnyrigg. The town has grown a lot on the last 30 years ( now over 20k ) and they will need to tap into that population if they want to increase crowds.
 

If they do manage to get into the SPFL entry prices will go up considerably which might put a few of their current supporters off.

 

Getting to the SPFL increases crowds, not reduce them.  Edinburgh City were lucky if they had 50 watching in the EoS and Lowland, now 250-300.  Same bounce with Kelty and Cove Rangers.  If Bonnyrigg get there, I'd say they should be looking at 500/600 every week, maybe more.

 

On a side note, I see Jay Charleston King has signed on loan for Blackburn United.

[Maroon Sailor]

Edinburgh City are similar to Meadowbank Thistle

 

Even more so when they move in to the new stadium. The 500 seat stand has orange seats in it as well like the old Meadowbank Stadium had.

[Maroon Sailor]

All the Highland League matches off today.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

All the Highland League matches off today.

Obviously blowin a hoolie 

[Jarhead]

I was wondering if anyone could clarify what the promotion and relegation is between the Lowland League and the East, West and South leagues? Are there 2 promotion places available between the regional leagues or only 1 between them?

[Stanley_]

2 minutes ago, Jarhead said:

I was wondering if anyone could clarify what the promotion and relegation is between the Lowland League and the East, West and South leagues? Are there 2 promotion places available between the regional leagues or only 1 between them?

Only one and teams need a licence to go up. As the West of Scotland league joined the pyramid later, only five of their teams have a licence. The league looks to be between Pollok (they have applied for a licence this year) and Auchinleck (already have a licence). Almost all the East Premier teams are licensed and it's between Penicuik, Linlithgow and Tranent for the title. The South of Scotland League is pretty irrelevant as it is basically a Dumfries and Galloway league which is at tier six for historical reasons. It looks to be between St. Cuthbert Wanderers and Threave (both licensed).

 

If the champions are all licensed, they'll play off for one promotion spot. It will take many years for things to balance out and many of the East/West teams (particularly the West) are stronger than many of the Lowland League teams. 

[Hmfc1965]

On 26/01/2022 at 23:08, Maroon Sailor said:

Edinburgh City are similar to Meadowbank Thistle

 

Even more so when they move in to the new stadium. The 500 seat stand has orange seats in it as well like the old Meadowbank Stadium had.

I think a few former Meadowbank supporters now watch Edinburgh City. 

[Jarhead]

2 minutes ago, Stanley_ said:

Only one and teams need a licence to go up. As the West of Scotland league joined the pyramid later, only five of their teams have a licence. The league looks to be between Pollok (they have applied for a licence this year) and Auchinleck (already have a licence). Almost all the East Premier teams are licensed and it's between Penicuik, Linlithgow and Tranent for the title. The South of Scotland League is pretty irrelevant as it is basically a Dumfries and Galloway league which is at tier six for historical reasons. It looks to be between St. Cuthbert Wanderers and Threave (both licensed).

 

If the champions are all licensed, they'll play off for one promotion spot. It will take many years for things to balance out and many of the East/West teams (particularly the West) are stronger than many of the Lowland League teams. 

Thanks for that.

Only Scottish football could come up with a pyramid system that has so many bottlenecks in it 🙈

[davemclaren]

13 minutes ago, Jarhead said:

Thanks for that.

Only Scottish football could come up with a pyramid system that has so many bottlenecks in it 🙈

To be fair, all those junior clubs are relatively recent additions.

 

As for the Lowland league agreeing to more relegation/promotion from the tiers below…like the SPFL, turkeys don’t vote for Xmas!!

[Hmfc1965]

18 minutes ago, Jarhead said:

Thanks for that.

Only Scottish football could come up with a pyramid system that has so many bottlenecks in it 🙈

To be fair it's partly a function of the way things were historically. 

You couldn't have a team from the East and the South joining the Lowland League every year and you've now got the West too.

[Maroon Sailor]

Celtic B 1-2 Bonnyrigg 

 

Another 3 points for the Rosey Posey

[davemclaren]

24 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Celtic B 1-2 Bonnyrigg 

 

Another 3 points for the Rosey Posey

👍

[Tommy Brown]

26 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Celtic B 1-2 Bonnyrigg 

 

Another 3 points for the Rosey Posey

Good to hear

[Footballfirst]

LOWLAND LEAGUE STANDINGS

Pos	Club	P	Pts
1	Bonnyrigg Rose	26	68
2	The Spartans	28	58
3	Rangers B	25	55
4	Celtic B	26	55
5	East Kilbride	26	52
6	Civil Service Strollers	28	47
7	Berwick Rangers	25	40
8	East Stirlingshire	25	39
9	Caledonian Braves	26	35
10	Gala Fairydean Rovers	24	34
11	Dalbeattie Star	23	33
12	Bo’ness United	23	31
13	Broomhill	28	28
14	University of Stirling	24	27
15	Edinburgh University	28	23
16	Cumbernauld Colts	27	22
17	Gretna 2008	26	11
18	Vale of Leithen	26	5

 

Another game closer to the title for Bonnyrigg. Only eight games left.

 

I understand that Celtic B had had asked Bonnyrigg to postpone today's game until Monday due to Celtic U18s playing on Friday night.  Thankfully Bonnyrigg told them to GTF.  Celtic listed 46 players in their "B" team squad at the start of the season.  They are not struggling for players.

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

LOWLAND LEAGUE STANDINGS

Pos	Club	P	Pts
1	Bonnyrigg Rose	26	68
2	The Spartans	28	58
3	Rangers B	25	55
4	Celtic B	26	55
5	East Kilbride	26	52
6	Civil Service Strollers	28	47
7	Berwick Rangers	25	40
8	East Stirlingshire	25	39
9	Caledonian Braves	26	35
10	Gala Fairydean Rovers	24	34
11	Dalbeattie Star	23	33
12	Bo’ness United	23	31
13	Broomhill	28	28
14	University of Stirling	24	27
15	Edinburgh University	28	23
16	Cumbernauld Colts	27	22
17	Gretna 2008	26	11
18	Vale of Leithen	26	5

 

Another game closer to the title for Bonnyrigg. Only eight games left.

 

I understand that Celtic B had had asked Bonnyrigg to postpone today's game until Monday due to Celtic U18s playing on Friday night.  Thankfully Bonnyrigg told them to GTF.  Celtic listed 46 players in their "B" team squad at the start of the season.  They are not struggling for players.

Well done Bonnyrigg. Bloody chancers. 

[Mikey1874]

Just 3 more wins Bonnyrigg need to qualify for SPFL play offs. 5 wins to win the league. 

[Maroon Sailor]

No league fixtures scheduled in March for Bonnyrigg 

 

What's that all about?

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Maroon Sailor

[Footballfirst]

11 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

No league fixtures scheduled in March for Bonnyrigg 

 

What's that all about?

 

That have a couple of postponed fixtures against Berwick and Cumbernauld to fit in, so they may get scheduled for March.  There will also be dates set aside for the South Challenge Cup and the EOS Qualifying Cup.

[Maroon Sailor]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

That have a couple of postponed fixtures against Berwick and Cumbernauld to fit in, so they may get scheduled for March.  There will also be dates set aside for the South Challenge Cup and the EOS Qualifying Cup.

 

Still a strange schedule not having any league matches planned for March this season.

[Mikey1874]

Good response

 

 

[Chuck Berry]

5 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Still a strange schedule not having any league matches planned for March this season.

 

The EoS was the same, was for League Cup matches which were held back from the start of the season just in case of Covid stoppages.  That threat has rescinded so all of March in the EoS is LC group matches.   Maybe same for LL?

[Maroon Sailor]

7 hours ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

The EoS was the same, was for League Cup matches which were held back from the start of the season just in case of Covid stoppages.  That threat has rescinded so all of March in the EoS is LC group matches.   Maybe same for LL?

 

Thanks for that - seems that is the case for the LL as well.

 

Bonnyrigg have 2 postponed league games to squeeze in 

[Jarhead]

On 29/01/2022 at 13:50, davemclaren said:

To be fair, all those junior clubs are relatively recent additions.

 

As for the Lowland league agreeing to more relegation/promotion from the tiers below…like the SPFL, turkeys don’t vote for Xmas!!

I very much understand the points yourself and HMFC1965 are making but it is examples of the short term, I’m alright jack, attitudes within Scottish football that frustrates me. 
The trouble with making it hard to be relegated is that it is hard to get promoted if it does happen eg. Berwick or East Stirlingshire. 
I would prefer to see a genuinely open pyramid that allows clubs to find their natural position but I guess that is what at least a half of the Lowland League fears. 

[davemclaren]

27 minutes ago, Jarhead said:

I very much understand the points yourself and HMFC1965 are making but it is examples of the short term, I’m alright jack, attitudes within Scottish football that frustrates me. 
The trouble with making it hard to be relegated is that it is hard to get promoted if it does happen eg. Berwick or East Stirlingshire. 
I would prefer to see a genuinely open pyramid that allows clubs to find their natural position but I guess that is what at least a half of the Lowland League fears. 

Indeed. 

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Jarhead said:

I very much understand the points yourself and HMFC1965 are making but it is examples of the short term, I’m alright jack, attitudes within Scottish football that frustrates me. 
The trouble with making it hard to be relegated is that it is hard to get promoted if it does happen eg. Berwick or East Stirlingshire. 
I would prefer to see a genuinely open pyramid that allows clubs to find their natural position but I guess that is what at least a half of the Lowland League fears. 

The problem as I see it is that the Lowland League is "run" exclusively by the clubs who are its participants at any point in time.  The LL sought to be part of a "Pyramid Structure" with an exit route above and an exit route below.  Its governance model and office bearers need to take a view that it is a fluid or transient league halfway up the pyramid structure, and not a destination. 

 

They should enabling promotion and relegation in both directions, wishing clubs well when they progress above the LL, or dropping to a league below. Similarly, they should be welcoming with open arms those clubs who are relegated from the SPFL, or promoted into the LL.

 

The same could equally be said of the SPFL as an organistation, which treats self interest and preservation as a virtue.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Footballfirst

[Maroon Sailor]

The SPFL is all about 2 clubs keeping the neverending Duopoly going

[Footballfirst]

The Lowland League has published the latest version of its rules which became effective on 1 November 21.

 

http://slfl.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/SLFL-Rules-Version-18.pdf

 

One that sticks out

B6 The League may, by a vote of member clubs, admit Guest Clubs to the League competition. Guest clubs will be admitted for a single season and may not take part in any competition other than the League.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Footballfirst

[Locky]

On 26/01/2022 at 16:38, Tommy Brown said:

You can have the ambition in the world.

Edinburgh City have exceeded their expectations. They will never garner a support in Edinburgh, a pointless club in the SPFL. 

Dave mentions Bonnyrigg, doing great and may make it too. But again their support is limited to their town? Most are already Hearts first and only deep down.

 

Brechin took a leathering on here, probably deserved. But they were ambitious, in 2nd teir with Michael O'Neill in charge.

I often give Cowdenbeath stick, they were also 2nd tier under Nicholl.

What happened, not sure. Its a tough game football and easy to get into rut.

 

My opinion, I have no desire for Brora, Edinburgh City types in the SPFL.

Was thinking about this recently in regards to City. None of the Edinburgh clubs really get an awful lot of support. As I posted earlier on this thread I went down to watch Civil Service the other night and you'd be lucky if there was 150 there at the most and that was including a fair few Armadale fans.

 

The wider Lothians teams seem to be well supported but Edinburgh seems a pretty tough city to crack. Sadly it just isn't a football city really. Of course there's plenty football fans in Edinburgh as we know, but Hearts and Hibs are so deep rooted in the city's history, and the OF glory hunters are just as prominent here too. Fair play to anyone who does go and watch them, but I reckon it could take years of playing in the SPFL to really start seeing a substantial rise in crowds.

[davemclaren]

58 minutes ago, Locky said:

Was thinking about this recently in regards to City. None of the Edinburgh clubs really get an awful lot of support. As I posted earlier on this thread I went down to watch Civil Service the other night and you'd be lucky if there was 150 there at the most and that was including a fair few Armadale fans.

 

The wider Lothians teams seem to be well supported but Edinburgh seems a pretty tough city to crack. Sadly it just isn't a football city really. Of course there's plenty football fans in Edinburgh as we know, but Hearts and Hibs are so deep rooted in the city's history, and the OF glory hunters are just as prominent here too. Fair play to anyone who does go and watch them, but I reckon it could take years of playing in the SPFL to really start seeing a substantial rise in crowds.

The ex-junior teams in the Lothians are all community/town teams. The small Edinburgh teams aren’t and Edinburgh has never been well represented in Junior football. For a long while there were no Edinburgh teams in the Juniors. 

[Hesh]

On 29/01/2022 at 17:38, Footballfirst said:

LOWLAND LEAGUE STANDINGS

Pos	Club	P	Pts
1	Bonnyrigg Rose	26	68
2	The Spartans	28	58
3	Rangers B	25	55
4	Celtic B	26	55
5	East Kilbride	26	52
6	Civil Service Strollers	28	47
7	Berwick Rangers	25	40
8	East Stirlingshire	25	39
9	Caledonian Braves	26	35
10	Gala Fairydean Rovers	24	34
11	Dalbeattie Star	23	33
12	Bo’ness United	23	31
13	Broomhill	28	28
14	University of Stirling	24	27
15	Edinburgh University	28	23
16	Cumbernauld Colts	27	22
17	Gretna 2008	26	11
18	Vale of Leithen	26	5

 

Another game closer to the title for Bonnyrigg. Only eight games left.

 

I understand that Celtic B had had asked Bonnyrigg to postpone today's game until Monday due to Celtic U18s playing on Friday night.  Thankfully Bonnyrigg told them to GTF.  Celtic listed 46 players in their "B" team squad at the start of the season.  They are not struggling for players.

There were definitely Celtic b players in the u18s team Friday so Bonnyrigg quite right in their stance. Shame games against ‘those two’ could (maybe) end up having an affect on the league.

[Locky]

47 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

The ex-junior teams in the Lothians are all community/town teams. The small Edinburgh teams aren’t and Edinburgh has never been well represented in Junior football. For a long while there were no Edinburgh teams in the Juniors. 

Yeah that's true. 

[Sarah O]

13 hours ago, Hesh said:

There were definitely Celtic b players in the u18s team Friday so Bonnyrigg quite right in their stance. Shame games against ‘those two’ could (maybe) end up having an affect on the league.

Good, well done Bonnyrigg. 

 

#ftof

[Mikey1874]

14 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The Lowland League has published the latest version of its rules which became effective on 1 November 21.

 

http://slfl.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/SLFL-Rules-Version-18.pdf

 

One that sticks out

B6 The League may, by a vote of member clubs, admit Guest Clubs to the League competition. Guest clubs will be admitted for a single season and may not take part in any competition other than the League.

 

http://slfl.co.uk/legal/slfl-rules-regulations/

 

"Admission Membership of the league will be...in accordance with procedures published by the Board on the SFA and SLFL websites"

 

But Annex 1 IIIc still specifies the North / South split for accepting relegated teams. Thought they were having to accept Brechin? Maybe comes under ability to accept a club that applies for membership.

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

http://slfl.co.uk/legal/slfl-rules-regulations/

 

"Admission Membership of the league will be...in accordance with procedures published by the Board on the SFA and SLFL websites"

 

But Annex 1 IIIc still specifies the North / South split for accepting relegated teams. Thought they were having to accept Brechin? Maybe comes under ability to accept a club that applies for membership.

The link on that page appears not to have been updated and takes you to Version 10, dated 20 July 2018.

It seems that the latest set of rules is Version 18.  

Edited January 31, 2022 by Footballfirst

[Chuck Berry]

18 hours ago, davemclaren said:

The ex-junior teams in the Lothians are all community/town teams. The small Edinburgh teams aren’t and Edinburgh has never been well represented in Junior football. For a long while there were no Edinburgh teams in the Juniors. 

 

The only non-league teams in Edinburgh that attract what you could call a crowd are Spartans (even then it barely gets above 100 most weeks) and Leith Athletic. A lot of other clubs have flitted around different venues and don't really have a base, they're effectively amateurs.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Chuck Berry

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

The only non-league teams in Edinburgh that attract what you could call a crowd are Spartans (even then it barely gets above 100 most weeks) and Leith Athletic. A lot of other clubs have flitted around different venues and don't really have a base, they're effectively amateurs.

Yip, seems to be the case. There can’t be many ( any? ) original Edinburgh City fans around either. 😟

[Chuck Berry]

8 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Yip, seems to be the case. There can’t be many ( any? ) original Edinburgh City fans around either. 😟

 

Most were refugees when Meadowbank moved to Livvy although they had a very small fan base which has grown a wee bit since SPFL2 but not significantly.  I believe they're are funded by a benefactor? once that goes, so will their league status.  They were originally Postal United, who got the backing of the Edinburgh City social club sometime in the 80's and they changed their name.

[Footballfirst]

33 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

The only non-league teams in Edinburgh that attract what you could call a crowd are Spartans (even then it barely gets above 100 most weeks) and Leith Athletic. A lot of other clubs have flitted around different venues and don't really have a base, they're effectively amateurs.

This guy tracks LL and EOS attendances.

https://twitter.com/RyanMusselburgh

 

Edinburgh teams average home league attendance (excludes Saturday's games)

Spartans - 259 (highest 485 v Bonnyrigg)

Civil Service Strollers - 105  (highest 200 v Bonnyrigg)

Edinburgh Uni - 67 (highest 155 v Celtic "B")

Leith Athletic - 80 (highest 148 v Craigroyston)

Craigroyston - 63 (highest 95 v Edinburgh United)

Edinburgh United - 72 (highest 137 v Leith Ath)

Heriot Watt Uni - 41 (highest 56 v Glenrothes)

Edited January 31, 2022 by Footballfirst

[Chuck Berry]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

This guy tracks LL and EOS attendances.

https://twitter.com/RyanMusselburgh

 

Edinburgh teams (averages exclude Saturday's games)

Spartans average home league attendance is 259 (highest 485 v Bonnyrigg)

Civil Service Strollers - 105  (highest 200 v Bonnyrigg)

Leith Athletic - 80 (highest 148 v Craigroyston)

Craigroyston - 63 (highest 95 v Edinburgh United)

Edinburgh United - 72 (highest 137 v Leith Ath)

Heriot Watt Uni - 41 (highest 56 v Glenrothes)

 

Seen that, some of these figures are........generous.

[davemclaren]

27 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

Most were refugees when Meadowbank moved to Livvy although they had a very small fan base which has grown a wee bit since SPFL2 but not significantly.  I believe they're are funded by a benefactor? once that goes, so will their league status.  They were originally Postal United, who got the backing of the Edinburgh City social club sometime in the 80's and they changed their name.

👍

[Chuck Berry]

No game tomorrow so a good chance to get out and watch a Lowland or East of Scotland League game.

[Maroon Sailor]

Vale gubbed again

 

 

[Footballfirst]

I went along to Ferguson Park this afternoon, after watching Hearts U14s beat Sunderland 5-0 earlier.  I was a bit surprised that the game was still on given the weather.  

 

In what was one of a few EOS Premier relegation six pointers to come over the next couple of months, HOB fully deserved the points.  HOB, playing with the wind in the first half, went 2-0 up before Whitehill got a goal back just before the break.  In the 2nd half, HOB actually played better into the wind, went 3-1 up and might have scored a few more as the home side tired on a heavy pitch that started to cut up badly. Whitehill's 2nd was just a consolation late in stoppage time.

 

Whitehill played like they were already resigned to relegation, while HOB played with lots more energy and look capable of easing their way out of the relegation battle. 

[moonraker]

17 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Vale gubbed again

 

 

Apt badge for The Vale

[Locky]

Rossvale Juniors have announced an interesting strategic partnership with a team in Gibraltar. Looking to create a pathway for players to go from the Scottish Juniors to European Football.